but seriously people, but the motown president.

[mopinko]

really. boomers. the stevie wonder president. tell me i am wrong. i dare you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4592415&mesg_id=4592415

[MADem]

1. There's someone from DETROIT running for President?

Or is it the 'black' thing that causes you to equate the junior Senator from IL with MOTOWN?

Actually, the MOTOWN SOUND was peaking when Clinton was coming up. That's the music of her generation, and 'early' MOTOWN was what McCain listened to as a young adult, right after he graduated from the Academy, and was in flight training.

Obama is more of the "Partridge Family" era. Disco, certainly. SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER.

If you want to associate him with anyone from the MOTOWN label (which moved to LA and elsewhere by then), well, he was probably grooving to Rick James, the Commodores, or Lionel Ritchie, and not Martha and the Vandellas.

The record company was founded a few years before Obama was even born, and it had a helluva run until he was a pre-teen--eleven or twelve or so. Then it kinda splintered, and wasn't the powerhouse music factory that it had been in the past. They left the motor city, and branched out into other ventures, which softened their impact. Also, tastes in music changed, so they didn't own the market anymore.

MOTOWN President? Clinton. It was a BOOMER label, really, and that was the music of her and her husband's era.

DISCO President? Obama. He was at the height of his youthful vigor during that era.

Elvis President? Well, that would be McCain, really. Elvis ruled during his high school and college years.

If we're going to be accurate, anyway.

[mopinko]

2. barack walks off to signed sealed and delivered.

motown powers the bus. what else do you need????

[MADem]

4. It was the END of Motown, on the TAMLA label. They moved to LA a couple of years later.

That wasn't "the Motown sound" either. Stevie Wonder was, and is, a much more complex musician. His stuff is genius, but it certainly isn't formulaic, and 'the Motown sound,' while a wonderful musical genre, was.

The MOTOWN sound is really more Martha and the Vandellas, Diana Ross and the Supremes, early (not the later) Marvin Gaye (and Tammi Terrell), Smokey Robinson, and so on...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motown_Sound

[mopinko]

6. all i can say it that you hill supporters crack me up.

whatever. specious is the word for you. hilarious how you manage to find a way to deflect what i said. amazing.

[MADem]

7. How you can get snidely PARTISAN over a few simple realities is beyond me.

Specious?

You're math challenged, you can't figure out how old Obama was in the mid-seventies, and you're insulting ME because I can?

I don't know where you get the "deflect" line. You ascribed to the guy a label that absolutely, based on his age, doesn't fit, and now you're getting whiney/angry at me for noting it.

I frankly think it's funny--and more than a bit REVEALING-- that you would get so wet-hen-mad and pissy about it--that "thin skinned" reputation is certainly earned.

:rofl:

[mopinko]

8. mad? i am so not mad. but

you go on and on with your wiki links and all. but when he was born is absolutely not the point. the point is the music that the campaign has chosen to represent themselves. for you to make the point when he was born is hilarious.
as is trying to say that stevie wonder was not motown.

[MADem]

9. I go "on and on?"

No--I don't go "on and on." This is a DISCUSSION board.

I DISCUSSED. And, because I don't take issue with someone without PROVING my point (it's rude to say "You are in error" without providing a correcting citation--it's what POLITE people do) I provided a cite.

And you're PISSED because I did so? :shrug:

Stevie Wonder is not representative of "The Motown Sound." I explained that. He recorded on TAMLA, but he's, as I said, a much more complex musician. His music is not of that genre. At ALL. His career and his musical gravitas as a force on the American scene were solidified well after "The Motown Sound" faded from the scene. In fact, the bulk of his records were not made in the motor city, they were made in Los Angeles.

What--you want a "ME TOO" chorus, even if your assertions aren't true? That is what you want?

That IS what you want.

And that's pretty sad....that even petty facts don't matter.

:eyes:

[mopinko]

12. you know, it was a light hearted post

and you are turning it into a pissing contest. i am not pissed. i really don't care what you think.

and there is not much you can tell me about stevie wonder. i have been a fan since he was little stevie. maybe you should read up- http://classic.motown.com/artist.aspx?ob=ros&src=lb&aid=65

and he is not just a musical genius, he has a long history of political activism. that he supports barack, and that the campaign uses his music, says something. says much more than the hillary corps will ever say, if you ask me.

[MADem]

17. My commentary was light hearted, too, and you decided to get all bullshit

because I accurately placed your candidate where he belongs--in the DISCO DANCE generation. He needs another decade of living to be where you want to put him.

That disco era IS where he came up. Why are you taking it like it's something "bad?" Plenty of people participated in it, even the "geezers" wanted to try it, though they were looked down on by the younger set (nothing changes, apparently).

Seems to me disco is about due for a resurgence. Dancing becomes popular in poor economies, it's a way of staying warm.

I remember little Stevie Wonder well, FWIW--I remember seeing him on TV in the BC (BEFORE COLOR) era, when he was a cool young feller, before some 'styling fool' got a hold of the poor kid and gave him his current 'look' that's about two - plus decades out of style now.

But Obama isn't using "Little Stevie's" energetic, youthful and more simplistic music--he's using BIG Stevie's deeper, more complex and serious works. His Post Motown Sound works, specifically.

And now, you start carping at me about Big Stevie's "political activism." And then you drag in poor Hillary, and excoriate HER for not having a cool enough musician to suit you??

WTF!!!!

I thought the "lighthearted" subject was MUSICAL genres--not "activist musicians"--you've swung your big gun around to take aim in that fashion. I didn't realize there was a contest between campaigns about who has the most "activist" musician onboard.

Is that actually a decision point for voters in the real world???

But there ya go--you're pissed because Obama is a post-Motown guy, a post-Boomer guy.

Shit, I thought the Obama people didn't even like the old Boomers and their lousy Boomer music? I thought they wanted those "old school" fools to take a powder, and let the young 'uns take over? I've heard that from enough of the Obama fans--they're the future, the rest of us baastids are the past, and all that?

So why do you want to "own" that old-school, geezer Boomer music? You know, the stuff they're touting on PBS during Pledge Week for us geezers, right after the reruns of the Lawrence Welk Show, for the geezers that are older than US geezers?

Hell, hold a few disco-dance benefits for BO, why doncha? You just might find yourself ahead of the curve on the Dance Renaissance....

:eyes:

You're being a bit petulant, you know.

[mopinko]

23. i fail to see what birthdates have to do with anything.

it is stevie and the old motown that the campaign has chosen to represent itself. why are you trying to obscure that? are we only allowed to identify with music that has been produced since our birth or something? lemme see, i was born in 1954, so, no duke ellington for me, no ella, no sinatra. i guess stevie is good, beatles. the clash? can i listen to the clash?
really, this thread is supposed to be light hearted, but it does have a point. and you seem to be upset by it. you seem like you are completely twisting the discussion out of shape. why?

[MADem]

27. Look, you content yourself however you can. Your histronics aren't going to change reality though.

The MOTOWN SOUND, and that era, does not represent Obama.

He's too young, he's not from the Motor City, he doesn't even have the personal history to accomodate the title. He grew up in sunny caucasian/asian Hawai'i, not on the mean streets of Dee-troit. He's more Don Ho than Diana Ross.

It's not a question of what music you can "appreciate"--and for you to even suggest that tells me that you are trying to argue your points from a childishly concrete perspective.

The larger point here is that it is INAUTHENTIC for him to claim that MOTOWN PRESIDENT title you proffer, and you do him a disservice by trying to foist it on him. In short, YOU make him look like an ASS by trying to award him that title.

It doesn't FIT.

Queen Elizabeth will never be Playmate of the Year, and Obama will never be "The Motown President." Just give it up.

Maybe you can award him the SOUL TRAIN PRESIDENT award, since you seem overeager--almost desperate-- to give him a bit of American Black Musical Panache. That show was popular when he was a kid...he was nine when Don Cornelius rolled it out, and it ran until a few years ago.

[mopinko]

31. i have not been histrionic in the least.

you are the one wearing out your cut and paste.
really, thanks for kicking my thread.

and btw, i give you the quincy jones thing-
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i797c75af15317bcf7db2bcbf15fbd754?imw=Y

i hadn't heard anything about it until now.

[MADem]

34. Yeah, you have, actually. Here's another kick, too.

First you got all "You Hillary supporters" on me, because you didn't like what I said.

Then, you got pissed off because I actually proved my point with links. You denigrated that, like it's a BAD thing to actually NOT talk out your ass.

Then, after getting bitter on me like that, you come back with the assertion that you intended your post to be "light hearted"--as though I was somehow harshing your mellow. When I reply that this is my intent as well, you then respond with "birthdates don't matter"--even though they actually DO, if you want to talk about the music that "defines a generation."

It's not MY fault that BO was born in the early sixties. His "time" was disco, Soul Train, Jackson Five, Partridge Family, Michael Jackson, Lionel Ritchie, Duran Duran, Cindy Lauper, Billy Ocean, Paula Abdul. That's the soundtrack of his era, when he was going to school, dating, getting married...NOT Smokey, not the Shirelles, not the Four Tops, not the Temptations...in fact, that music was considered a bit old fashioned during that time, as the Sha-Na-Na revival had run its course and people were looking for newer, more techical and 'fashion forward' music. That Glam Rock theme with the goofy hair was everywhere when he was coming up.

In fact, this was probably one song that he really remembers as a teenager, the "opening act" of his musical coming of age, as it were--it's one of "the songs" of that decade, he would have been fourteen when this came out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irp8CNj9qBI

I just don't understand why you want this guy to "deny" his generation. It doesn't make sense to me, frankly. He's come right out and said that he's all about the future, not the past, not us old fogies, and you, for some reason, want to attach the baggage of the geezer/boomers, we tired old baaastids with those "old ideas", onto his little wagon train. It doesn't make sense, frankly. It doesn't fit his agenda.

It doesn't fit HIM, either. It's 'inauthentic' for him to hook up with this music, like it defined him or something. He's just TOO YOUNG.

[mopinko]

35. really, this is sad.

i had no intention of getting into a pissing contest with you. but really, what don't you understand about -this is the music he chose. this is the music that is as much a part of his campaign as his logo. he chose it. and it chose him. stevie has supported him.
i have no idea what is so hard for you to understand. but i am done here.
take a pill.

[MADem]

37. He chose "mature Stevie." The "soul" stuff. That's great!

It's a fine 'note' to identify his campaign. Quality music from a quality artist. An artist who supports him, too.

Wheee! Wonderful. SWELL!!!!!

It ain't old school MOTOWN, though.

You're the one mislabeling it. You're the one trying to squeeze Obama into a theme that doesn't match reality. And then getting angry and making snarky comments at me (Ewwww, this is SAD, take a PIIIILLL!) because I point out that you're basically, no offense, now, talking out your ass.

And I'm not alone here, either. Us old bastards who came up in that time, and heard that MOTOWN music when it was actually ON the "Top Forty List" know the difference. It's just a different genre--it's wonderful music Stevie puts out, it just ain't the Four Tops or the Temptations.

He will never be the "MOTOWN" President. He might be the "soul music" President, but not the "MOTOWN" President.

Besides, we've already had one. He's a sixty one year old white haired guy who plays lousy saxaphone and had heart surgery awhile back.

[mopinko]

43. btw, tamla is part of motown.

ok, really done. but tamla is a division of motown, he remains a motown artist. and i am from back in that day.

[MADem]

45. Of course it is. But TAMLA relocated to LA when "Barry Obama" was eleven years old.

Berry Gordy created and owned the label, in fact. Universal (GE, We Bring Good Wars To Life) owns it now, I believe.

And, as I have repeated here, most of Stevie Wonder's music is not part of the "MOTOWN SOUND."

As "Little Stevie" he was, but he doesn't sing that stuff much anymore, and, as I have said, his complex and more classical music doesn't fit the genre. He is a soul artist, he's "POST-Motown" Sound. When you think Stevie Wonder, you think multidimensional musician and singer, a COMPOSER, not one of the bunch from Detroit's "Hitsville USA."

My memory is better than yours, if you came up back then. You've forgotten some detail.

[Arugula Latte]

3. I actually think Obama is a little young to be the disco prez.

He was a youngish teen at the height of disco, in '77 or so.

[MADem]

5. No, I think it is about right. We have a family member born the same year as Obama

Disco was THE guiding force with that youngster through high school and into college. By the time that university degree was earned, disco was starting to go on the downside, but it did influence the school years--and we had to listen to it--120 beats a minute--whether we liked it or not (headphones weren't the thing back then for the dancing set)!

He would have been in high school when the trend got going, and enjoyed the dance culture through his college years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco

1975-1980: mainstream popularity
The release of the film and soundtrack of Saturday Night Fever in December of 1977, which became the number one best-selling soundtrack of all time, turned Disco into a mainstream music genre. This in turn led many non-Disco artists to record disco songs at the height of its popularity, most often due to demand from record companies who needed a surefire hit. Many of these songs were not "pure" disco, but were instead rock or pop songs with disco overtones. Notable examples include Helen Reddy’s "I Can't Hear You No More" (1976); Marvin Gaye’s "Got to Give It Up" (1977); Barry Manilow’s "Copacabana (At The Copa)" (1978); Chaka Khan’s "I'm Every Woman" (1978); The Rolling Stones's Miss You (1978); Wings’ "Silly Love Songs" (1976) and "Goodnight Tonight" (1979); Barbra Streisand & Donna Summer duet "No More Tears (Enough Is Enough)" (1979); Kiss "I Was Made for Lovin' You" (1979); Electric Light Orchestra’s "Last Train to London" and "Shine a Little Love" (1979); and Michael Jackson’s "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," "Rock With You," and "Off the Wall" (1979),SOS Band "Take Your Time"(1980),Prince "I Wanna Be Your Lover"(1980)Lipps Inc Funkytown(1980)The Spinners "Forgive me Girl (Working my Way back to you)"(1980) Shalamar "The Second Time Around" (1980) Diana Ross "Upside Down" (1980)


...The transition from the late-1970s disco styles to the early-1980s dance styles was marked primarily by the change from complex arrangements performed by large ensembles of studio session musicians (including a horn section and an orchestral string section), to a leaner sound, in which one or two singers would perform to the accompaniment of synthesizer keyboards and drum machines.

In addition, dance music during the 1981-83 period borrowed elements from blues and jazz, creating a style different from the disco of the 1970s. This emerging music was still known as disco for a short time, as the word had become associated with any kind of dance music played in discothèques. Examples of early 1980s dance sound performers include D. Train, Kashif, and Patrice Rushen. <12>

During the first years of the 1980s, the "disco sound" began to be phased out, and faster tempos and synthesized effects, accompanied by guitar and simplified backgrounds, moved dance music toward the funk and pop genres. This trend can be seen in singer Billy Ocean's recordings between 1979 and 1981. Whereas Ocean's 1979 song American Hearts was backed with an orchestral arrangement played by the Los Angeles Symphony Orchestra, his 1981 song One of Those Nights (Feel Like Gettin' Down) had a more bare, stripped-down sound, with no orchestration or symphonic arrangements. This drift from the original disco sound is called post-disco.



If you want to parse it, you can call him the Disco-Dance President, but his high school and college years were heavily influenced by disco and dance music--and we know he wasn't "slow" and kept back. He should have been out of college by the early eighties, which was how long this genre was popular.

[indie_voter]

10. He was born in '61, so he was 16.

That said, it doesn't mean much. My brother was 18 in '77, HATED disco. I was 13, loved it (youthful folly!). My brother scratched one of my disco albums on purpose so it skipped. I was heartbroken although I can't remember which album it was, I just remember swearing to get even with him.

Hmmm... That reminds me...there is no statute of limitations on revenge is there? ;)

[mopinko]

25. DH was born in 60. hated disco.

was a grunge rocker or whatever they called it. loved the clash, joe jackson, elvis costello. disco demolition night at comiskey park was the high point of his life until he met me. :evilgrin:
i kinda liked disco, because i liked to dance. i think that is the big divide right there. DH wouldn't dance to save his life. the only dancing i get to do anymore is with my ipod.

[EFerrari]

36. I saw a picture of him in high school and he definitely had that disco collar

going on. :)

[MADem]

38. He's got the WHITE SUIT!!! The John TRAVOLTA WHITE SUIT!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury....I rest my case:




Plainly ready for the DANCE FLOOR:



Here he is at Harvard Law--definitely 'styling':

Seen here as the newly-elected president of Harvard Law Review, when he was young Barack Obama was known to friends and basketball teammates as "Barry O'Bomber" for his basketball skills. (Steve Liss/Time Life Pictures/Getty Images)



Columbia Undergraduate Barack Obama with his grandparents in New York City around 1981-83, when he was a student.


Barack Obama during his Columbia years. He says little about his college days in his memoir, and declined requests to release his transcript, but some who knew him praised his record.

[mopinko]

41. hey, you couldn't get away from it.

i remember those days. that was all there was to buy.
nothing in my post was about when he was born, or what he wore in high school, tho.

[EFerrari]

46. No, you couldn't find a normal collar for love or money.

LOL! I have photographic evidence myself.

I saw Stevie Wonder at a rally on teevee. That was pretty cool. I've always wanted to be in a cult with really good music. :)

[mopinko]

49. come on in. the koolaid is great.

you won't be sorry.

[MADem]

47. Gee, I was responding to SFX's remark about the disco collar.

That's why, if you look to the right of my post, you see that it is responding to THAT post, not the OP.

He certainly had that "look" going on--to say nothing of the "Members Only" theme in university and law school.

You could get hiking boots, jeans, and workshirts back then, too. To say nothing of the lumberjack plaids and corderoy shirts, if those were your taste. T-shirts were big then, too, amongst some--often with goofy little pockets that were slightly too small for a pack of cigarettes. And what they now call a "hoodie" but back then, it was simply called a "hooded sweatshirt" if I recall correctly.

It wasn't "all" disco clothing. That style was easy to find, but if it wasn't your taste, there WERE other choices.

He liked the stuff, apparently. Why wouldn't he? That was his TIME, his ERA.

And it suited him, too.

[rug]

11. You're wrong. Berry Gordy backs Clinton.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

24. Quincy Jones backs Barack. nt

[mopinko]

26. see?

this matters to some of us boomers.

[MADem]

29. I think you'd better "see" this. Your facts, again, are out of order.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/43.aspx

Quincy Jones Endorses Hillary Clinton

[MADem]

28. Uh....pants on FIRE??????? Not true.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=2580

7/26/2007
Quincy Jones Endorsement of Clinton Announced in a Video Tribute
Musical great Quincy Jones announced his endorsement of Hillary Clinton in a video tribute this afternoon during a luncheon which brought together over 200 African American men who support Hillary Clinton's candidacy for president. In the video, Mr. Jones speaks eloquently about the depth and longevity of their friendship and his belief in her ability to lead our nation.

"Hillary Clinton is one of my favorite ladies on this planet who I've known for a long, long time and who I believe in and will go to the ends of the earth for... I have known her as a human being and have been around her in every kind of situation ... she and I have shared thoughts very intimately, and I've always admired and appreciated that ... I have always had an honest response from her with anything we've ever talked about. I see her for who she is and she has the vision, courage and most importantly she has the experience ... we have very few people that can take us to the next level. The one that can take us there in the 21st Century is Hillary!"

In addition to Mr. Jones' video endorsement, supporters heard from other distinguished participants from across the nation, including New York Congressman Charles B. Rangel, Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee and Dean of the New York State Congressional Delegation; Trenton, New Jersey Mayor Douglas H. Palmer, President of the U.S. Conference of Mayors and co-chair of the Clinton campaign's Mayors Council; Robert L. Johnson, owner of the NBA Charlotte Bobcats and founder of BET; Bishop Tavis Grant, Pastor of the Greater First Church International in Chicago; South Carolina State Senator Darrell Jackson (District 21); and Attorney Willie E. Gary who also announced his endorsement for Senator Clinton at the lunch.

"I was truly touched by Quincy's tribute and endorsement today," said Clinton. His elegant and thoughtful words are an inspiration to all of us. I have known Quincy for many years and appreciate his friendship and his support for my candidacy."

Quincy Jones is an American music impresario, conductor, record producer, musical arranger, film composer and trumpeter. During his five decades in the entertainment industry, Jones has earned more than 70 Grammy Awards, and a Grammy Legend Award in 1991. He is best known as the co-producer of two of the top-selling records of all time: the album Thriller, by pop-icon Michael Jackson, and the charity song "We Are the World".

[H2O Man]

13. One of the best

was "Yester-Me, Yester-You, Yesterday." I am not sure if he wrote the lyrics (I was under the impression it was a "cover," but could be wrong). Oh, it was good!

What happened to the world we knew
When we would dream and scheme
And while the time away
Yesterme yesteryou yesterday

Where did it go that yester glow
When we could feel
The wheel of life turn our way
Yesterme yesteryou yesterday

I had a dream so did you life
Was warm and love was true
Two kids who followed all the rules
Yester folls and now

Now it seems those yester dreams
Were just a cruel
And foolish game we used to play
Yesterme yesteryou yesterday

When I recall what we had
I feel lost I feel sad with nothing but
The memory of yester love and now
Now it seems those yester dreams
Were just a cruel
And foolish game we had to play

Yesterme yesteryou yesterday
Yesterme yesteryou yesterday
Sing with me
Yesterme yesteryou yesterday
One more time.....

[mopinko]

16. definitely stevie lyrics.

i am still stuck in stevie world. got a lot of the pod.
you know, even the songs like superstition, sunshine of my life, sir duke, even sign sealed and delivered, songs i have heard a million times, sometimes i will start the pod after one of these songs, thinking, eh, i don't need to hear that again. then it comes around, the first notes play, and my feet start to move. just can't resist. at all.

and i think people really need to recognize that stevie took a big risk, and probably lost money, by speaking his mind. he isn't just a musical golden child. he is a citizen of the first order. his endorsement should really be trumpeted the way ted kennedy, et al were. (yes, i am. but others need to, too.)

[H2O Man]

18. I think the lyrics might

belong to "Miller & Wells." Stevie Wonder no doubt made the song famous. I remembered it from an old 45; after thinking about it, I looked around on the internet. A number of sources attribute it to Wonder, but others list Miller/Wells.

Either way, I think it was one of the best songs of the era. The guy was, and is, one of the outstanding musicians of our time. I think his endorsing Obama is outstanding. When he sang the nam, I thought it was very moving.

[mopinko]

22. you could be right. it is not uncommon.

definitely from the old tune factory days.

[H2O Man]

39. It was so good .....

Certain songs just stand out.

[mopinko]

40. my all time fave is

do i do. just got a groove that will not quit. dizzy gillespie. blow. hard to pick, but that is mine.

[H2O Man]

42. My children

all think I'm odd because I still love The McCoys doing "Hang On, Sloopy." But all four of my siblings understand. (I also have an old German LP of a young Jimi Hendrix doing the song, which my kids think is strange!)

[mopinko]

44. well, kids.

i confess that part of my love of the song has to do with the fact that my baby (14 yo) also loves the song. not an all round stevie fan, just loves that song.

[Whisp]

32. I love Stevie stuff. have to put a plug in for the Funk Brothers, tho.

They propelled many a superstar into fantastic careers, whilst being in the background and not appreciated enough.
I recommend seeing Standing in the Shadow of Motown.

sorry for the bit off topic, - but thot I'd put this tidbit out there.

[mopinko]

33. 's okay.

that is not who is behind him on that sesame street video on this other thread about this, is it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4592415#4593114

[Johnny__Motown]

14. You Are Wrong,,, look at my name and tell my I am wrong, I dare you

[mopinko]

15. thank you

presuming you are who you say you are? :shrug: no offense intended.

so, you don't appreciate having a motown fan as a candidate?

[KittyWampus]

19. Higher Ground. Either version will do...

[ronnykmarshall]

20. Stevie Wonder was not the president of Motown.

Berry Gordy was.

[mopinko]

21. is that a joke? nt

[MADem]

30. And don't forget Quincy Jones....who supports her as well

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/43.aspx

[Faygo Kid]

48. Hey, I was born and raised in Motown. Cut the crap.

It's universal music, and quit misrepresenting my city.

And cap the M on Motown, mopinko. Show a little respect. (Just a little bit. . .)

[mopinko]

50. no disrespect intended.

would i diss aretha? never, never, never.