Obama supporters are the real cynics

[Indenturedebtor]

As my wife and I shared our mutual gripes about work tonight, I realised that we were the real cynics. See she works for the Genomics department at a major university. Recently she was told to bring more graduate students into the program. She came up with a multilevel marketing plan that focused primarily on what would excite the target audience of college students: money, sunny weather (Arizona), altruism, etc.

He was strongly taken aback, and simply insisted that the best way to bring good students into the program was to focus on "the science" and insisted on some rediculously boring spiel about "blah blah blahmasine hydrapodiblah mutualy blah'd with a blah blah blah blahdiphase" which is exactly what they'd always done in the past.

After a few weeks of arguing with him about the nature of college students she finally got her way when he went out of town and the deadlines for the ad came up.

Shockingly when her ad campaign results were in they had almost twice the number of applicants as in any year in the programs' history.

----------------

Ok point-

Her boss, a brilliant and wildly successful man would like to believe that his priorities are the only and the best priorities in life. Science for the sake of science is the noblest pursuit, and people who are able and intelligent will naturally appreciate the beauty and perfection of good hard science. What an exciting challenge... what a wonderful and fulfilling existence it will be to immerse myself in the wonderful world of blah blah blah blahsine hyrdoxilase blah blah.

Right. It would be lovely if everyone cared about wonk the way that we do. It would be such a wonderful country if everyone carefully considered history, statistics, policy, etc when chosing a candidate.

But they don't and they never will. People are finnicky, panicky, distracted, ignorant, lazy yutz's who can barely manage to drag themselves to work everyday much less summon the emotional and intellectual wherewithal to even care about politics, much less devote the time and energy it takes to research the issues! Who's who? What's what? Who cares? I have bills to pay and kids to feed. Oh it's the Gays you say that make my life so hard? Ok sure... I hate them. Who's against Gays this year? Oh well it's my duty to vote I'll vote for that guy.

The best that we can hope for is someone that charms them to our side and then gets them motivated to PAY ATTENTION, and further gets them on our side and believing in the solutions that we believe in.

Hell I'm so excited about a Dem that can even get them to pay attention for a moment, the fact that he has some great policy ideas has me all atwitter.


Clinton people I understand that you wish everyone was a policy wonk. What a wonderful country it would be if we all truly took advantage of our democracy and kept one eye on "what's going down on the hill" every single minute of every single day. But this will NEVER happen. That is your fatal hope, your lack of healthy cynicism.

Now I certainly don't believe that wonk for wonk and virtue for virtue Obama and Clinton are equal. I didn't make my choice on charisma alone. But dammit if Obama wins you should be damn happy that he's on our side! Bush didn't win on issues.. He won because of nasty tactics and his ability to charm the country in his own wierd way.

Charisma is a power... it can be used for good or evil. But dammit we have a chance at POWER and you should be happy about it. For once in a generation the Dems have a chance at winning the heart and the will of the nation and we need to take advantage of that. The trouble is that someone without any ethics will always have the advantage in the realm of charisma. Just tell them what they want to hear and then do whatever.

There is always a danger of tyranny no matter who gets elected. But for all his imperfections and indiscretions, he does have a good record and has done alot for ethics and transparency. If he wins the Nom, please help us make sure that we sweep him into office on a mandate so that his power of charisma can have its true force to make his policies (that we all 90% agree with) a reality!

[Political Heretic]

1. That's me! Everywhere I go I am told what a cynical person I am!

:eyes:

[Indenturedebtor]

2. Hey!

Don't roll your eyes at me :P My cynicism is where my HOPE comes from! We have a champion on our side! FINALLY!!!!!!

And you know I'm right hah!

[Political Heretic]

7. I know I'm really tired.

That's about all I know right now :)

[mcctatas]

3. So I'm confused...

Obama supporters are the real cynics yet your post is pretty much just a cynical screed against people who don't share your choice of candidate? "People are finnicky, panicky, distracted, ignorant, lazy yutz's..." (Negative or pessimistic, as from world-weariness: a cynical view of the average voter's intelligence), "The trouble is that someone without any ethics will always have the advantage in the realm of charisma. Just tell them what they want to hear and then do whatever" (Believing or showing the belief that people are motivated chiefly by base or selfish concerns)
...and the rest of the post pretty much falls under (Expressing jaded or scornful skepticism or negativity)

:eyes:

[Yossariant]

4. Good summation. Excellent point. Obama supporters, like Bush supporters, are hypocrites.

[mcctatas]

8. ...

um, what? I guess my summation sucked ass, becuase I thought the OP was NOT an obama supporter and therefor the post was cynical...it seems that what we have here is a failure to communicate. :shrug:

[Yossariant]

11. Uh uh. I think the OP is an Obama supporter. Sorry to agree with your post.

:evilgrin:

[rodeodance]

14. I find it to be very arrogant.

[Bongo Prophet]

17. NO U R. Nyaah + Nyaah = Nyaah nyaah.

Hey, I tried reasonable discourse with you.
Asked polite questions.
no answers after several tries.

So now, change of tactics.
From now on U R NoIsE cHiLd.

One side all good.
One side all 3viL

Manichaean Madness Monster Truck Politix.
Vroom vroom

[Indenturedebtor]

22. Sorry I wrote that late at night - not the most clear

"Obama supporters are the real cynics yet your post is pretty much just a cynical screed against people who don't share your choice of candidate? "People are finnicky, panicky, distracted, ignorant, lazy yutz's..." (Negative or pessimistic, as from world-weariness: a cynical view of the average voter's intelligence), "The trouble is that someone without any ethics will always have the advantage in the realm of charisma. Just tell them what they want to hear and then do whatever" (Believing or showing the belief that people are motivated chiefly by base or selfish concerns)
...and the rest of the post pretty much falls under (Expressing jaded or scornful skepticism or negativity)"

Yes it is cynical/pragmatic that's the point. I guess I'm really just looking at both sides of things. I'm really excited about Obamas message of hope and change, and I hope that he'll be able to use it to make his platform a reality. He wasn't my first choice of candidate based on platform, but his platform is solid and solidly progressive. So while I can't speak for all Obama supporters (nor am I trying to) this Obama supporter is hopeful in a negative way hah! :crazy:

And don't take my words out of context "Just tell them what they want to hear and then do whatever." I didn't say that Obama plans to do that or that all people will do that. But that's what Bush did, and that's what many politicians have done in history. I am acknowledging that Obama may do that as well, but based on his record I don't think that he will.

Ultimately I think that the people on this board forget that most of the country DOESN'T PAY ATTENTION! And you can hope and wish all day that one of our wonderful tweed jacket wearing policy wonks will be swept into power based on the minutae of their policies, but it's highly unlikely to happen in my lifetime.

It's been said in many ways: "we need a salesman", "we need a motivator", etc. Ultimately we need someone that can get people off their asses and form a coalition to push our progressive policies through.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

5. Is the Hillary Campaign on some sort of Orwellian Meme Strategy?

it sure sounds like it.

Twist the truth and repeat often.

The stupid unwashed masses will believe it.

[The Traveler]

6. One word: Coattails

Obama has raised the energy of the campaign season in a way we haven't seen in decades. He has also raised a mighty war chest, and is likely to go into the GE with an opponent who has challenged him (with whom he agreed) to use public financing.

These factors create the opportunity to really drive congressional contests in our favor. I am sure there are legal means by which Obama can divest himself of his war chest in a way the lands it in the hands of congressional seat contenders. In a straight up contest between Obama and McCain, I don't see Obama losing.

We have a major opportunity here. As a policy wonk, I supported Edwards ... and frankly I would have preferred to see him at the front of the pack right now. Either Obama or Clinton would represent a major improvement in government. But Obama can create a tidal surge that sweeps us into dominant control of congress. It is that consideration, more than any other, that has caused me to choose Obama over Clinton.

[lligrd]

9. Here's Another Cynic For Obama

I used to tell people I was a realist but I then a Hillary supporter stole my platform.

[ErnestoG]

10. Says the Establishment Candidate advocate....

Oh dear, Hillary, it's her TURN, right?

[rodeodance]

13. underdog, establishment candidate--they swith every wk or two.

[ErnestoG]

15. Like Hillary switches her arguments. Aye

[rodeodance]

16. Like Obama switches his arguments. Aye-AYE

[ErnestoG]

18. Neener neener? Typical Hillarite bullshit.

[rodeodance]

12. your basic assumption is that "we have a chance at POWER"--yes we do--But Clinton is our chance.

thank you.


Charisma is a power... it can be used for good or evil. But dammit we have a chance at POWER and you should be happy about it. For once in a generation the Dems have a chance at winning the heart and the will of the nation and we need to take advantage of that. The trouble is that someone without any ethics will always have the advantage in the realm of charisma. Just tell them what they want to hear and then do whatever.

[johnnydrama]

19. really?

Which nation is she going to with the heart of?

[Enrique]

20. that's pragmatism, not cynicism

nothing at all wrong with pragmatism, imo.

another concept is hypocrisy, which is pretending to be motivated by idealism when in fact one is motivated by something less than idealism, like hatred. (this is in no way directed at you, indenturedebtor).

[readmoreoften]

21. But I can't stand a good many of his policies. Who do I vote for?

I don't like his jingoistic saber rattling.
I don't like his ideas on military expansion.
I don't like trust his hyper religiosity--I have a feeling faith-based funding will increase and more public services will be gutted.
I don't like his free market economics whiz kid team.
I don't like his vague position on Social Security.
I find him totally vapid and disingenuous.
I suspect he will be as bad as Clinton and I fear he will be far worse.

So, basically, my lesser evils are getting more and more every election cycle.

[Indenturedebtor]

23. I dunno

McCain :shrug:

He's not perfect... he wasn't my first choice. But I'm excited that he'll make some wonderful changes for this country.