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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 11:53 AM
Original message
Caught on Tape: "Hillary Clinton Pushes For More H1B Visas and OutSourcing"
She simply cannot deny that her trade and jobs policies favor big business. See and listen for yourself here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. My husband came here on an H1B Visa.
I guess it's intellectually easy to make it BAD that the damned foreigners come here for skilled jobs, supposedly stealing American jobs, under the guise of "Big Business", but since I am familiar with how it went down for my husband and other friends (um, there was a shortage of Americans skilled in their fields), I just have to shake my head.
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Sorry, my brother in law has been laid off due to the program.
He has worked part time for the last 6-8 years in the Silicon Valley. It is simply untrue that there was a labor shortage in the US. It is true that foreign workers have been willing to do the same jobs for a fraction of the salaries.

I am truly sorry that your husband and my brother in law are victims of this corporate race to the bottom.

Hillary, by the way, also supports NAFTA, which is a similar program where the jobs go overseas to reduce wages.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. That's odd, because when my husband was on his H1B, he
made the most money in his lifetime. Now he's a U.S. citizen on a regular salary. AND, he met me. I have a different experience with H1Bs than you. And I also live in an apartment with lots of immigrants and foreign workers in high tech who are on H1B visas, so I take it personally that you blame THEM for finding a better life in America.

I am sorry your brother in law lost his job, but sometimes when two things happen at the same time, that does not mean there is a direct cause and effect.

Outsourcing is a different issue from H1B visas, and I am troubled by it, in a way I am NOT troubled by H1B visas.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Your husband took a job that could have been filled by an American...
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 12:17 PM by Triana
...who was already here - who is a citizen, and who HAS the skills (or could have been trained), but the employer wanted cheap labor. The fact that your husband is making more $$ now than he ever has doesn't change that.

Someone who was already here and has the skills or could have been easily trained is unemployed now or making LESS than (s)he ever has - because the entity that brought your husband and the others here were too cheap to pay them decently or train them.

So yea there IS cause and effect. Very directly so.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Fine, so you hate foreigners. Glad we have that straight.
The wealthiest people I knew in the late '90s were the H1B workers. They hardly were "cheap" labor.
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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. we don't hate foreigners...instead we LOVE Americans 1st, just as the H1Bs love
their home country first. Why is that such a surprise to you??
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. I think playing the racist card here is uncalled for! It's people caring about their jobs!
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 01:38 PM by calipendence
H1B Visa program was on paper INTENDED to provide foreign labor for jobs where no domestic labor could be found to meet the requirements. It has been abused to be used for hiring for hiring cheaper labor from foreign sources when domestic labor wouldn't do the same job for lower wages. The rationalizations don't add up to what it's actually being used for.

The sheer numbers of people hired through this program, how fast the quota gets used up, and how congress critters are being lobbied to remove the quota altogether, exposes that the REAL purpose is to get lower wages, not to hire people that "can't be found here with the right qualifications". There may be occasions for that happening, but the number that fit that category I would argue should be far less than the current quotas that are set in place allow.

And please don't call me racist. Some of my best friends are foreign workers here, (Indians and many others). One of the reasons I moved from the midwest to the west coast was to be around a more diverse populace where I work.

But I've worked in the trenches in Silicon Valley and other places and have seen how this system works for myself. Not just the statistics, which also back what I'm saying:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1305.html

This situation has been around since the early nineties at least. It isn't just George Bush now that's responsible for this situation. Previous administrations and congresses share in the responsibility for this program of basically legalization of institutionalized indentured servitude to happen.

I've arguably lost a contracting job due to competing with "cheaper" H1B contractors. I've seen and heard mid level managers joke about finding ways to get cheaper labor costs by outsourcing their tasks to contractor "body shops".

The H1B program is SUPPOSED to ensure that H1B workers get paid the "prevailing wage" for what a domestic worker would be paid for an equivalent job. This is just on paper, but it is easily worked around by these "body shops" who hire ONLY H1B employees, and therefore have no domestic workers on their staff to compare wages to, which allows them to pay whatever wage they want. THAT is why you see them collectively make less wages than domestic workers. And I've seen these same mid level managers make a point of saying they had to make sure they wrote up getting these contractors from body shops as obtaining a "service" from this body shop, rather than hiring a "worker" from them. That way it shields the contracting company that much more from the equivalent wage/benefit ratio restrictions.

When I was in the Bay Area, I used to live in an apartment complex where the landlord was one of many in that area that were taking advantage of the dotcom bomb housing shortage at lower ends of the spectrum when the top of the market bottomed out and the supply of mid range and lower end units was way to low to meet the demand of increased number of renters looking for houses that weren't being moved out of any more when noone wanted to buy new houses and were sitting in their old ones. This landlord was jacking up people's rents 40% or so when their leases expired. When my neighbor moved out, she STACKED that unit way too full with a lot of H1B Visa people in it, who were placed there by their employer. Then the employer arbitrarily kicked them out and moved in there himself. The people hired in these programs didn't even have a lot of the freedoms of where you stay like you or I do, when the employer hangs the "do as I say and work for what I pay you or be deported" message to them.

Consider the other variables here too:

1) India provides FREE bachelors degrees to its universities for its citizens. Now I know that their schools aren't as good as ours are here domestically, and therefore it isn't equivalent to our university educations. But it certainly is better than our free education we get here through high school. They are mainly trying to decide whether they should get a graduate degree or not when they are going to school over there to go to a job market where that sort of degree has a STRONG chance of getting them a job, compared to our kids looking at the high cost of a bachelor's degree here which might get outsourced. Our educational opportunities are SO slammed against our citizens getting into high tech jobs. Even though I love working in the high tech profession, if I were a student today looking at this market, I probably would be smart to find a different career than the high tech career which doesn't have the same prospects I had many years ago, or that of many other countries have looking at the same profession. Heck, even now I'm facing prospective layoffs if Microsoft (who hires a HUGE chunk of their people in Bangalore) takes over the company I work at now too (Yahoo).

2) People working here in "guest worker" programs such as H1B aren't here to LIVE here and become citizens as applying for citizenship or even some with green cards would be looking to do. They want to come here for a short time, make a LOT more money than they could at home, and move back and have a decent retirement nest egg with the difference in cost of living versus what they earned in their own countries. They then take those skills back to their country and foster the outsourcing industry more too if they then work there instead to be closer to their families then. We should be looking for immigrants who want to move here permanently. We should encourage people who want to work here to go through getting citizenship, or applying for green cards, so that they can be competing on an even basis with everyone here, and therefore keep the demands for salaries higher and more at market rates rather than artificially lower rates.

3) People who come here and work in guest worker programs also don't have the rights to vote or the rights to organize in a union. That is also not talked about a lot and is significant. The more companies can hire people from outside instead of domestically, the less represented our work force is in government to ensure we have adequate worker protections. If those people became citizens instead, they'd give us more power to change the dynamic away from the corporatist dominated government we have in place now.

4) Think about the outsourced labor overseas as well. These people are often working there at depressed wages, specifically because our trade policies that "dump" subsidized corn products and other similar products don't let them compete fairly as farmers and have forced them to sell off farm land to elites who turn that farmland into factories that hire these same people for cheap. That also depletes the prevailing wage, and forces down our wages here as well too. If these companies move some place else cheaper than these overseas plants where they hire people in this way, then those same people will look to come here for jobs at lower wages. That is all part of the neocons' master plan for creating a new sort of feudalism where they can live like royalty at our expense.

5) The increased reliance of moving around labor to different countries, and also shipping goods around globally from "cheaper" places also screws with our global warming problem that much more too. We should be focusing on trying to foster as much as possible a "work local" atmosphere, where people don't have to travel too much or ship too much of goods and services to make a living and live a decent and rewarding life. This globalization of the work force is hurting our prospects for solving the global warming problem as well.

This should NOT be about harrassing or holding grudges against those working with H1B Visas, or undocumented workers working here illegally, or for those working in outsourced jobs overseas. It should be about making sure that everyone gets a chance to have a job locally working for a decent wage where they are.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. H1B's are not the issue... it's the lie that there is a labor shortage.
We do not need to keep increasing the number of H1Bs... we need to put people in the industry back to work. I know many, many professionals who have had to take lesser salaries and/or be laid off due to increase in using H1Bs. And while the law says companies must pay these people competitively, the companies often times do not, using the reduced wage/salary as a means to hold citizenship as a carrot on a stick. Your husband was lucky to have met and married you. Many immigrant workers are not so fortunate. If we keep a limit to the H1Bs that are handed out, it will be better for both professionals and immigrant workers.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Exactly - there IS NO labor shortage. It's a damned lie (n/t)
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Ditto. Thank you both for your support! n/t
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. Exactly...I started in IT in 1991, and there was substantial training by my employer.
Do any employers train new hires in IT today?
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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. it is not a different issue! A company is only allowed to sponsor an H1B when they
"prove" they can't find an American worker with those skills. And that is very easy to do since you can "prove" that no skilled American exists for any job. There is even that video with several lawyers explaing how to do it.

And lets not forget that H1B people are hired at lower labor costs than Americans and that they have to stay at the company which is sponsering them for as long as it takes to process thre required docs for green card. Some companies are taking as long as 5, or more, years to do this. If they leave the company before then they have one month to get another job before being required to leave the country.

Where are the skills shortage? That is the only reason they are bringing in H1Bs! There are no shortages in high tech and nursing.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
46. Wait until YOUR husband is replaced by a
imported low wage foreigner.
It could happen tomorrow. All they have to do is find someone who will work for less.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I haven't been laid off, YET, like your brother in law, but I see first hand
what your brother in law has experienced, and cost is the main reason.

They also ship many jobs over to Asia for the same reason

If you want to see the "For Lease" signs that have been on buildings for several years, because companies have off-shored, just visit the Silicon valley in Santa Clara County

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. The company I work for has been told by the board to move 10% of development over to India
What does that mean? That before the year is out, 10% of the developers working in the states will not have jobs

The reason is not because of lack of people to do the devlopment, it is because of cheaper costs

It is very similar to the H1B visa associates we have. It isn't because WE DON'T have the skills, they are doing it because it is more cost effective

That is a fact, and the cost savings is much greater when the ship the jobs over seas

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. That's OUTSOURCING which is a different issue from H1B visas.
I don't see the problem in having foreigners come work here. That means the company stays here, and it also is a great cultural exchange. I DO have a problem with moving jobs overseas.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. No problem as long as it doesn't replace a current worker, and that verification
that is suppossed to be done, has very little enforcement or verification tied to it

Also, in many cases, the H1B visa foreigners, are only temporary. They gain skills, and when their term expires, takes those skills back to their country of origin, with those skills

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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. And what skills were those?? I am in the high-tech field and no shortage exists there
with Americans living here now. I have worked in defense, aeronautical, robotics and now in telecom as a software designer and I've seen all get reduced since the '90s and heavily out sourced to India and China. I have many friend who have no jobs since they are too over-skilled and cost more than either a new hire or HIB worker. Many have had to go to other professions to even make a living.

The same is happening in the nursing field.

So, I am very curious. What skills are you talking about there being a shortage off? I can alert my laid off co-workers to move to that filed since there is a need of Americans with those skill.


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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. In the late '90s: SAP. People converted to it to avoid
Y2K problems. There weren't enough skilled workers.

Once again I live amongst H1B workers here at my apartment complex, and they do very fine, thank you very much. The complex has a pool, tennis courts, fitness studio, etc. Is that squalid?
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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. What?? I've been working a s/w designer since 1985 and have never see a skills shortage....
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 12:36 PM by texas_indy
which would require bringing in H1Bs when there were no Americans willing/able to do it.

SAP is a skill which is easily leared by anyone in the high tech field. Even those with out a CS degree can easily learn SAP. You really want people to believe that that American people are too stupid to learn SAP in a short time and that is why H1Bs are used?!?! HIBs are hired at a lower rate than American for the very same job. It is even show in the job postings the companies give out.

They wanted to cut the labor cost of skilled American workers is why the H1B is being used so much.


Why would you mention how they are living to me? I made no mention of that at all in my post.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. There WAS a Labor Shortage in the Late 90's, But NOT Since Bush** Took Over
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. I posted this in the video forum for you.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. What is Obama's position on H1B visas? n/t
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I don't know...maybe Obama supporters can weigh in?
I do know that this is one reason why our economy is in trouble. Please take a look here for more information about this terrible program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csg5nVo3TDU
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I do know that this is the biggest flaw in both of my current senators.
Both Cantwell and Murray consider themselves Bill Gates' employment agency.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. H1B visas are NOT a reason for economic problems. There were H1B visas
in the go-go '90s, and nobody had a problem with it.

The outsourcing I have a bigger problem with because it sends everything overseas.
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Hillary wanted to increase the # of H1B Visas

increase it by a lot. Her direct involvement with the Tata company
from India is a perfect example of Hillary's indifference to the
american workers plight.
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. Yes, there were a small number of H1-Bs in IT in the early 90's.
They greatly increased the limit for Y2K, and kept it high for years afterward.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
49. And now it's not-so go-go and there are even more H1-B's. n/t
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Prefer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. Barack supports temporary INCREASE of H1Bs
Because Americans currently "lack the skills" to do the job.

He supports training for Americans.

"We can do better than that and go a long way toward meeting industry’s need for skilled workers with Americans. Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively. I support comprehensive immigration reform that includes improvement in our visa programs, including our legal permanent resident visa programs and temporary programs including the H-1B program, to attract some of the world’s most talented people to America. We should allow immigrants who earn their degrees in the U.S. to stay, work, and become Americans over time."

http://pradeepc.net/blog/?p=193
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. TEMPORARY is marginally better than PERMANENT.
Still, that's another reason why I supported Edwards.

Go ahead and vote for Hillary. But your job might be next.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. My time dissenting is done. People see what they want to see.
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 12:26 PM by beachmom
But next time Lou Dobbs or Pat Buchanan mouths off about Mexicans, you guys aren't really in a position to judge, now are you?

You just all hate a different group of brown people: Indians. Shame on you.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. This is a wage and fair compensation issue not an ethnicity or nationality issue. (nt)
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. 'Zactly what w4rma said (n/t)
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. It's not a question of "brown people". It's jobs!
Those opposed to issuing more visas would be just as opposed if the visas were going to white skinned Canadians or Australians!
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texas_indy Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Yep, many Asian Americans feel the same way since the H1B increase
threatens their jobs here as well. Even those who came over on H1Bs in the '90s are now concerned about the number of high tech H1Bs still being granted by the US. The irony of life, eh??
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. And your opinion is clouded because of the personal benefits you experienced.
I have friends who are only over in the United States because of TN visas (NAFTA). It doesn't mean that I agree with NAFTA.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. Obama: "I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program"
http://pradeepc.net/blog/?p=193


Highly skilled immigrants have contributed significantly to our domestic technology industry. But we have a skills shortage, not a worker shortage. There are plenty of Americans who could be filling tech jobs given the proper training. I am committed to investing in communities and people who have not had an opportunity to work and participate in the Internet economy as anything other than consumers. Most H-1B new arrivals, for example, have earned a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent abroad (42.5%). They are not all PhDs. We can and should produce more Americans with bachelor’s degrees that lead to jobs in technology. A report of the National Science Foundation (NSF) reveals that blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans as a whole comprise more that 25% of the population but earn, as a whole, 16% of the bachelor degrees, 11% of the master’s degrees, and 5% of the doctorate degrees in science and engineering. We can do better than that and go a long way toward meeting industry’s need for skilled workers with Americans. Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively.


He's wrong. There is no skills shortage. Companies prefer to hire foreign tech workers because they accept lower wages.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. It's different in science.
There aren't enough molecular biology majors in the US to fill jobs in both biotech and academia.

Different industries, means different skills availability. And, yes, it is possible to restrict an increase in visas (both H-1B and TN) to specific industries.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. Ummm-Obama's wrong and I do not like his policy there.
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 03:56 PM by Triana
The skills are here - the willingness to work for below-livable wages isn't. And YES I think that rather than allowing more H1B visas, we ought to require companies to train (if even necessary) and hire people who are here already who are citizens. Qualified or trainable US citizens ought to be given preference for those jobs before ANY visas are issued for them OR before they're outsourced. And NO writing 'shady' job descriptions such that NO American worker would be "qualified". THAT practice needs to be STOPPED.

An addition, beefing up and restoring our PUBLIC school system and making it easier for EVERYone to get a college degree, along with helping displaced workers survive (extended UI bennies) and helping them get new training (which could be part of the first paragraph and damn well should be - those displaced American workers ought to get first crack at those jobs and training for those jobs before they're EVER outsourced or insourced).

INSTEAD OF OUR GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIZING and giving incentives and tax loopholes to companies to send those jobs overseas or to bring low-wage workers here - INSTEAD - our government ought to subsidize and give incentives to those companies to HIRE and TRAIN domestic citizen workers (American citizens) who are HERE - to do those jobs.

Establish and enforce the following laws:

Companies MUST pay a living wage to all workers - for the area the company is located in.

They MUST give preference for any openings to American citizens who are qualified or trainable.
Pass and enforce laws that END the 'shady advertising' that companies engage in for those positions which are deliberately written such that no American worker would "qualify".

They MUST hire and train qualified or trainable American citizen workers - particularly those displaced by other out or insourcing FIRST. ONLY WHEN there are none of those types of workers left, can they in- or outsource. Make the requirements for this stringent and enforce them.

BEEF up the EEOC - fund them to the gills and make them monitor and ENFORCE these laws. Yearly audits for every corporation above a certain size or profit level. THEY DO THIS NOW for affirmative action purposes (or used to). They can expand this program to make sure companies are not just giving jobs to the lowest paid workers they can get, and putting American workers out of work just to get cheap labor.

Help pay for this with money saved by getting us out of Iraq and by closing tax loopholes and doing away with incentives now given to companies to out or insource jobs - AND by rolling back bu$hit's tax cuts for the very rich.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #27
53. "There are...Americans who could be filling tech jobs"
Whether there is a skill shortage or not, at least he recognizes that there isn't a WORKER shortgage and knows we need to do more to help people understand the job opportunities of this century.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. That's it! I would NEVER vote for this woman!
She wants to give away our good jobs to outsiders!
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Read Beachmom's posts above, and calm your fake outrage.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. No fake outrage- Your candidate will say and do anything
to get elected
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mile18blister Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
35. Americans want a better life too, dammit.
Please let me know where all these companies are that are so desperate for skilled labor that they need to import it. I have a PhD in Computer Science and am having a terrible time finding work. I've paid my dues, and all I want is a better life. No, scratch that. All I want is the life I had during the '90's. Is there another country in the world that protects its labor force as poorly as this one?

Look, I don't blame foreign workers for taking American jobs, I blame the corporations for wanting the cheapest labor. I blame the government for letting them get away with it. If you want to call me a xenophobe anyway then so be it.
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. You are not a xenophobe
I am truly sorry for your plight, and hundreds of thousands of engineers and programmers suffering at the hands of Bill Gates, Walmart, Hillary Clinton, and others who are seeing who can cut wages fastest.
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mile18blister Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Thank you for your understanding and sympathy.
I really do appreciate it.
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Hart2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
42. Hillary's Dan Quayle moment: "Tomorrow" is only spelled with one "M" Hill.
Maybe she outsourced the graphic design for the backdrop?

:rofl:
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. That is pretty funny. Nice catch.
:toast:
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Hart2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. The race to the bottom: Exporting jobs and importing workers. n/t
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
50. Backbreaker #1 for me. The others are her IWR/K-L votes. A complete list of rotten from HRC.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/538674.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/593175.cms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

This is why it disgusts me to see her talk to Lordstown auto workers when she's at the same time a supporter of free trade and job offshoring. I'm related to a few workers at Delphi who recently had to take a buyout and start over at 35. Did she forget there's an internet that will call her on statements like these that will eventually bite her in the ass?

Even though Obama is my last hope, I seriously don't like his stand on trade either. It's like both of them have Tom Friedman in their ears and are clueless to the plights of the working and middle classes.

Collectively, we really made a giant mistake not going with Edwards. Just shameful.
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Obama sure needs to learn more about the H1B visa issue, but
at least he isn't in bed with Walmart. I'm actually afraid this problem might be worse than under Bush if Hillary gets in the WH.

Obviously, I agree with you wholeheartedly on Edwards. We didn't have a choice, and he didn't have a fair shot. No media attention = political purgatory.

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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
51. What a fucking bitch.
Who in the world can say that Hillary Clinton cares about workaday Americans anymore?

pffft.
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mysteryman2 Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
54. It worked she got the latin, muslim, asian vote
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