If Obama takes the nomination, we'll lose in 2008

[grasswire]

I'm fully convinced that Dems have fallen into a trap.

An unvetted nominee is the path to disaster for us.

As of today, with all those threads urging Hillary to submit to the cult of personality of the unvetted candidate, I believe the election of 2008 is lost for us.

Sigh. It was ours. Stupidity reigns.

[saltpoint]

1. If the Pukes nominate McCain, Richard Speck could rise from the dead

and still defeat him in an electoral landslide.

[Maribelle]

182. Republicans will unite spectacularly behind their nominee. They always do.

Denying this is like denying that alligators love to bask in the sun with full bellies.

[OneBlueSky]

183. wrong! . . . "it's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes!" . . .

and just as in 2000 and 2004, the Republicans and their corporate masters do all the tabulating . . .

the election will turn out however they want it to turn out . . .

[respublicus]

200. black tokenism+rightist reactionary policies=Dixiecracy II rises again / Southern Strategy sequel

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. No, we won't. But thank you for your concern.

[bunkerbuster1]

22. The concern is touching, isn't it?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Flabbergasted]

4. The GOP doesn't even think they'll win.

Why the hell did I respond to this. ugh.

[dysfunctional press]

5. ...and if hillary takes the nomination, we'll lose in 2008.

i guess it's going to be president mccain then.

game over.

:shrug:

[ORDem]

12. Correct. In the absence of any GOP-hate issues this cycle, she will

bring out the GOP voters in droves. God knows a lot of them would just stay home if it were McCain/Obama, and there aren't many "gay marriage" state measures to bring them out, either.

:kick:

[thevoiceofreason]

6. And the survey says?

WRONG.

Thanks for playing. Parting gifts at the door.

[BenDavid]

7. GOP Bloggers for Obama

For the next month or so, the conservative valentines will arrive every day at Obama HQ. His image will be illuminated by the bipartisan aura of admiration from prominent Republican commentators and strategists, as they savor the promise of his victory over Hillary, long the object of their hatred. He may well imagine that they really like him—and surely some of them do, at least for now.

William Kristol wants superdelegates to do “the good deed” of pledging their ballots to him,
George Will urges Democrats to choose him as “the party’s most potentially potent nominee,”
Peggy Noonan promises that he will be “bulletproof” against Republican attack.

Yet somehow, the Obamaniax refuse to address those questions - why? Why can't they see the trap the GOP bastards are setting? Worse, why can't they see it AFTER we point it out to them?

Answer:
They don't want to see it, don't want to hear it - they want to pretend it's not there.
The "don't want to see it, don't want to hear it" Democrats are gambling with America's future.

Are we OK with that?

[BlackVelvet04]

14. We're witnessing the left wings version of bushbots. n/t

[liberalnurse]

43. I never would of guessed it....Obamabot in blue!

We can look at the high possibility that they, the right are feeding this fraud like the Movie Industry does with a bad movie........

[grasswire]

20. I can only assume that it has to do with ...

....a lack of maturity or sense of history. Or perhaps it's just a lack of attention to the nature of the foe -- Republicans are fanatics who have tolerated and supported the actions of Bushco.

All the kum-ba-ya in the universe will not bring cooperation from people who are willing to plunder the treasury, steal elections, torture, starve children, nullify the Constitutional protections, plunder the planet and celebrate theft.

It is insanity to think that Republicans will not exploit every chink in Obama's life. In fact, they'll even make stuff up and attack any strengths he might have. And Democrats will be surprised by any number of negative things blown into scandals, because they didn't care enough to vet him.

At least with Hillary (and I'm not a Hillary supporter) we know everything there is to know, because they've already done the trashing of her.

[Laurab]

49. I believe the opposite.

If Hillary were to win the primary, I think we would lose. She would get out the GOP vote like nothing else would. We don't "know everything there is to know" - there are another 10+ years since they left the WH, and rumor has it, Bill has been Bill, and much is known about it. And who knows what Hillary could possibly have done in those 10 years that they would throw at her?

No matter WHO wins the primary, the repukes will exploit, make stuff up, and attack. They'll have so much more with Hillary, without even TRYING. Obama's been hit with a lot from Hillary's Rovian-type campaign, and seems to be doing quite well even though he's a "cocaine-dealing muslim". It just wasn't very effective, drove Hillary's numbers down, and would do the same with McCain, who wouldn't have a prayer if he were running against Obama.

[RazBerryBeret]

135. I don't really understand this line of thinking...

"In fact, they'll even make stuff up and attack any strengths he might have"

don't you think they'd do the same with Clinton?

"we know everything there is to know, because they've already done the trashing of her"

don't you think there is new stuff since 2000? I know I've seen new stuff from her senate days..
If anyone believes the repugs will not repeat something they've already said about her....remember who we're talking about here -- think back to 04.
same thing, repeated over and over like flip-flopper, flip-flopper, flip-flopper....

I don't see how ANYONE has a leg up in this area. I strongly believe they're on the same playing field here.

[thevoiceofreason]

32. Among your lamest posts

If you think for a second that the mood of the blogosphere has any effect whatsoever on either campaign, you are deluded.

If you think either democratic candidate will be swayed by any comment from the right, you are deluded.

If you thin any commentary offerred by Fox, MSNBC, CNBC, CNN or the 3 majors will affect the Obama or Clinton campaigns, you are deluded.

In a month (or four), it is all out war. 527 war. No dad gum spending limit war.

There is no trap -- it is a yawning chasm of utter hostility -- do not think for a second that you see it and others do not.

Senator Barack Obama is best suited to bridge that chasm. You disagree with that statement. I accept that. But he is. And he knows what is ahead of him -- mark my words.

That is what a primary does -- it helps steel you for the general. I just wish Hillary and the GOP had launched a few more attacks, but I think Bill helped fill that void.

[liberalnurse]

79. I think you will need CPR if Obama wins the Nomination

and then gets his gauntlet beating, 24/7 by the media. It will matter enormously.

[Bongo Prophet]

108. Some seem THRILLED at the prospect of losing. Why is that?

[liberalnurse]

175. You don't understand....

Obama is not the one we need to win the White House. He is the one to loose it for us. You like him, I like him but I also take into consideration the other variables in play. Obama has not been touched by the media........what does that say, they adore him, he's perfect and pure, the essence of John Kennedy? Chris Matthews gets shivers down his spine when he heard him speak....

Well, that tells me they have their talking points with orders........"hands off the kid, Obama is only half-way thru his first Senate term, no leading legislation and ....we must take down Hillary first, the Clinton Machine, the democratic candidate that really can win. The kid will be a carnival of laughs when he's all alone, tear him down like a Christmas Tree in January ...."

That's when you will need the defibulator.O8)

[mkultra]

33. The answer to this should be simple to see

The GOP knows the answer and so does everyone of us deep down somwhere.

No matter what the GOP does this time, they are going to lose. Thats exactly why McCain, who is closer to normal than most conservatives, is being allowed to win.

They just think Hillary is nuts and dont want her in the whitehouse.


simple enough if you drop the ideology.

[FogerRox]

96. McCain loses like McGovern in '72.

Gimme a break, McCain is toast as a type.

[MediaBabe]

35. Maybe it's sexism after all

Maybe they think there's more dignity losing to a man in the general election than to lose to a woman in the primaries.

I dunno. Geez.

He could of had it all had he waited a few years but this might end his chances of ever attaining the White House because when he loses this year he won't get even this far next time. It's not like this is the last time he could have ever run for president. What was the damn hurry?

[liberalnurse]

76. Absolutely TRUE!

It is a simple carrot trick on a stick. :banghead:

Daily, I try and scream "911,,,,Repugs are baiting us with Obama". but it falls on deaf ears so far.

How many repugs are crossing over to boost-up Obama in the Primaries just to feed into the appearance of high democratic votes with a dilution of Hillary's base?

[miceelf]

185. LOL

Project much? Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter are pulling for Hillary Clinton.

[TexasObserver]

8. Pure delusion fueled by desperation. Obama is our only chance to win big in November.

Apparently, you haven't heard about how half the country hates Hillary and will vote for anyone but her.

[rug]

11. That explains 2000 and 2004.

[blm]

16. Actually, undermining from TeamClinton explains 2000 and 2004.

As observed by NOTED historian Douglas Brinkley:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Bill's 3 week book tour in 2004 where he repeatedly defended Bush on his Iraq war decisions as Kerry was attacking those same decisions.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

And Carville's sabotage of Ohio Dem voters on election night:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

And Hillary siding with Bush's smears against Kerry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[rug]

19. Bill got a blowjob from Karl Rove too, right?

A NOTABLE blowjob at that.

[blm]

30. I don't know anything about that. I stick to facts as witnessed or occur publicly.

.

[rug]

40. And it's a fact Brinkley expected Kerry to pick Gephradt as VP in 04.

[blm]

52. Not the point is it? This was about what CLINTONS do and if you want to stay blind

and continue to play your game of pretend, that's your problem.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

Clintons protect Bushes. They always have and always will.

And now Bill is lining his bank accounts with millions from the very people he protected when he deep-sixed so many investigations and their outstanding matters.

THAT is what you defend - whether you realize it or not.

And newsflash for you, Gephardt WAS one of the final few Kerry was choosing from at that point. If you think your retort was stinging......it wasn't. It just showed....again.... how little you know.

[rug]

59. Rather a Foxian post for a facts person.

[blm]

66. The day FOX ever complains about Clintons protecting Bushes, please post the transcript.

Because I'm sure many of us would LOVE to see it on any news networks, including the investigative reporter who broke many of the stories in IranContra.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html


BTW - how many times do you think FOX played Hillary's scolding of Kerry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[rug]

72. Yes, Fox has treated the Clintons with kid gloves for years.

[blm]

77. Nice distracting, meaningless 'scandals' to keep the public and media from focusing

on the real problems in this country and the real dangers of the continuing coverup for BushInc.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

Bush2, 9-11, and this Iraq war should never have been possible.

[KoKo]

131. blm....I've read Parry...I agree with you...but Obama isn't going to investigate any more than

Clinton's did. You'd have to vote for him thinking he'd wipe out the PAST. Remember he's for "Hope and Change" ....meaning "Move On." and...Move On.org. has endorsed him along with the Nation Magazine and just about every other Liberal Voice in America.

If you think he's going to ruin his Administration by calling for investigations of BCCI and Clinton's Involvement and then move on to Bush/Cheney and the Bush II Family Crime violations of the Constitution then you would have to believe he would have no time left to do anything else. It will take a year for him to get his cabinet together, clean out the RW Evangelicals and the "Sound Science" and the Greenspan Wall Street Crowd..while he and Michelle are trying to get the furniture arranged for their kids rooms in the WH Personal Quarters.

You don't come into a Fascist Government where all the computers and aides and the staff have been doing "Heil to Hitler II" and figure you're going to immediately start investigations into Bush I, BCCI and then go through the Clintons and MENA AIRPORT and then work down to BUSH II/CHENY/RUMMY/RICE!

THE EVIL EMPIRE...still RULES!...their tentacles will be everywhere before he figures out what portraits he wants on the walls in the Oval Office. :shrug:

[blm]

192. Nope. The good guys are siding with Obama and THAT matters.

Kerry said at the Boston Rally there will be investigations and Obama was just offstage when he said it.

The president doesn't have to INITIATE the investigations into another president but the Senate and Congress CAN. The new president only has to COOPERATE and allow ACCESS to documents - something Clinton never did.

[liberalnurse]

48. Obama is an empty suit.

He, he has no political record yet and he wants the throne.

Even *bush was a governor for 8 years.

[liberalnurse]

83. You are so gone...

[tabatha]

9. It's a NUMBERS game.

Either Obama or Clinton WILL win.
There are far too many democrats, independents sick of Bush.
They will turn out in huge numbers.

Nothing the GOP can dig up will deter democrats.

[ericgtr]

10. National polls show Obama ahead of McCain and Hillary behind

how does that work with your logic here, vote Hillary in just so we can lose the GE?

[shimmergal]

181. Check out the "National polls" figures for

this time in 2000 and 2004, and even 1992.

These figures tend to change rapidly as the year moves along. Sometimes several times. They're of very limited value in predicting electability. They make great talking points, but very little else.

[billbuckhead]

13. Republicans are bragging Obama gives them the opening to take back the house

Sadly, I think they will be able to use Obama and his "movement" to destroy the Democratic party as an option for the white middle class, Asians and Hispanics.

[ericgtr]

15. Have you taken a look at Republican turnout this year?

They are at an all time low, look at how many people McCain draws compared to Obama.

[boston bean]

67. pssst......

that's because McCains voters are voting for O in the primary, then they will vote for McCain in the GE.

[sueragingroz]

110. yah the obama fans don't seem to be getting this....

But don't worry... many of us do.

[Hippo_Tron]

180. If you would please show me some evidence to prove this...

Otherwise I'm just going to assume you're talking out of your ass.

[hfojvt]

How odd then that Missouri Senators and a Kansas Governor

think a Hillary nomination will hurt the party in 2008. Even this primary campaign shows that the M$M is quite willing to go all out against Hillary.

[Cha]

17. Thanks for your freakin' ,hand wringin',

non knowledgeable concern, grasswire..Jeeze.

hilary sucks but don't let that revelation keep your knickers from gettin' all twisted.

[grasswire]

42. I'm am not a Hillary supporter.

But at least she's a known entity.

If you Kool-Aiders want to display to the voters that your candidate is clean, then I suggest you hire a couple of really good PIs to check him out, and release the evidence. Or maybe he would be willing to have his FBI file opened for public scrutiny.

[Yael]

54. Because no one has looked into his past yet.

Not the Clintons, not Axlerod, nobody.

:rofl:

[bvar22]

62. Yes. Hillary is a "known entity"....

That is precisely why I'm choosing Door #2.










"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[w13rd0]

80. "If you Kool-Aiders"?

Really, you think juvenile name calling is constructive? What next, gonna sport a purple band-aid on your face?

F'off

[grasswire]

105. okay, then prove your commitment to truth...

...and start asking the questions of Obama for the world to evaluate.

All an observer hears is fairy tales of "change" and "hope."

When Bush ran in 2000, the same kind of pixie dust allowed him close enough to seize power.

[RazBerryBeret]

153. holy crap...

I'm tired of the kool aid drinkers comment.

so think what you want. Believe what you want.

Rove is behind Obama being ahead in the polls. Limbaugh and O'Reilly are double agents, they want Obama to win the primary. We've been set up by the DNC. The media is overtaking the government and Obama is their mole. Another Clinton is our only savior...If we don't elect her, America as we know it won't exist. Obama is muslim and hates America. Obama dated only white woment. The Bushes want Obama to win and he'll pick Jeb as his running mate. If Obama wins the nomination he'll go into hiding cause he can't possibly take the heat...

did I miss anything? Conspiracy theories and Eeyores...
Go ahead, call me ignorant, naive, immature -- was it?

[BayouBengal07]

I'd rather have an unvetted candidate

than one that already has already had all the skeletons dragged out of the closet. At least they have to dig. Clinton has been vetted all right, and that means we would hear months of Whitewater, Vince Foster, Lewinsky, sketchy donors, and so on.

[grasswire]

25. you are wrong

Bringing up all the old stuff would only make Hillary's numbers go up. History is the proof. When Republicans attacked the Clintons, Bill's numbers went sky high.

[Yael]

57. There are democrats with Clinton fatigue too.

[grasswire]

68. yeah, I'm one of them.

I'd give anything for a good dark horse. I've never been so unhappy about the prospects.

[Yael]

71. I hear ya

[dansolo]

89. Hillary is not Bill

Bill was able to charm people. Hillary does not have that luxury.

[stevietheman]

129. Hillary ain't Bill. n/t

n/t

[cooolandrew]

Not what the polls say & he has won by larger figures than polls suggest. So I am not sure I agree.

[Blarch]

18. It's clear as day...

that he is pulling voters that have never voted for a democrat, he will win the dixiecrats, the Reagan democrats, and the blue dog types....And Hillary can't.

He will win in a land slide of historic proportions

[muck17]

41. pure fantasy

Obama will have trouble holding NJ, NH, and PA. He'll win the black vote, but can he run strong in the suburbs? Can he win the soccer moms and nascar dads, especially after the GOP hits him hard with the muslim smears?

[Tarheel_Dem]

92. and you think hillary can win any of the demographics you highlighted?

even the black vote is not a sure thing for hillary this go round. Nascar dads voting for Hillary? you must be drunk.

And with Hil refusing to release her financial records until she has the nomination sewn up is problematic as well. Who the hell knows what she's hiding? And I don't want her to be the defacto nominee until we know exactly where that $5 mil loan came from....

[MethuenProgressive]

21. It's clear a great many Republicans voted for Obama in our Primaries and Caucuses,

And DUs Obamas applauded...

[cooolandrew]

23. We need a mandate so vetted unvetted, without that we win not very much really.

[liberalnurse]

24. You are right on target.

OMG finally someone with grey matter in their skull. Yes, The plan is:

Media will keep their hands off of Obama, praise him like the school kids did to Carrie in that movie with here namesake, played by Sissy Spacek. Then,j ust when he thinks he's the Prom King..."Bam,Splash, Boo" the jokes on him.




The republicans had a choice,,,Clinton or Obama, both Senators.
Who has no Political track record at all..........Obama...Even McCain can trump him...Hope and dreams only go so far....far enough to bullshit dreamy-eyed, pie in the sky democrats.

Obama and the democrats who only want to believe what they hear will soon be sobbing, saying they were cheated again. Not this time...they took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

[cooolandrew]

36. They are coming for us even if we ran Jesus. Barack is more than ready he didn't get here unprepared

[liberalnurse]

56. Excuse me but he has never been challenged in the media yet ...

They are targeting Hillary now ...then going to suffocate the new kid by September 1st. Obama, the candidate who has yet to finish his U.S Senate term.

To have Obama go up against McCain's record..................no challenge at all for McCain because the right will rally to his glory if they like him or not. They will be a machine...they want that umbilical cord to the White House to be planted on a republican. They will fight and they will win.

[MercutioATC]

26. An unvetted candidate is worse than the Repub and Indy equivalent of Satan?

I'm telling you, Repubs HATE her. Almost 50% of Indys hate her. Hell, there's probably 15%-20% of Dems that won't vote for her if she's the candidate.

Has Obama withstood the same level of scrutiny as HRC? No. But I'd take my chances with him over her any day.

Clinton is a guaranteed loss.

[sniffa]

27. If you replace Obama with Clinton, I totally concur

:thumbsup:

[Hill_YesWeWill]

28. Is that what you hope will happen,

or is that just a prediction

either way, I think that's a pretty inflamatory statement to say on a democratic board, shame!

[grasswire]

31. welcome to DU

Pay attention, now.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

37. No, no I'm not new! But thanks for the welcome anyway!

Bottom line, I believe in unity, I know most on here feel differently at the moment, but as soon as we get this nomination sorted out, and the sooner the better, we can all join forces once again!

[grasswire]

45. unity with whom?

Republicans? The enemy of Obama is not Democrats. The enemy of Obama AND Democrats is Republicans. And Republicans have no illusion of unity. They have demonstrated that they have no use for democracy and will allow heinous crimes just to retain power.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

47. Exactly, and I meant unity between democrats

the independants and the few republicans that want to vote dem this year, that's fine, but I don't expect them to do much for the Democratic party. We, the democrats, Are the Change!

[Alexander]

29. You're right. We'll lose...Wyoming, Idaho and Utah.

And maybe 2 or two other states.

:evilgrin:

[still_one]

34. National polls seem to disagree with your view, but thanks for spreading the love

like most every other post in this hate-filled forum

[grasswire]

50. where is the hate?

I have no hate. How can it be hateful to wish for wisdom from Democrats?

What IS hateful is blinding one's own eyes to reality, hoping for an illusion to happen -- sort of like wishing on a fairy tale -- when so very much is at stake. The future of the planet, dying soldiers, looting the public treasury, squandering public trust, etc. etc. etc.

Falling for a Jack in the Beanstock story is unconscionable.

[ecdab]

90. I think the part

where you call everybody that doesn't agree with you stupid might be where the negative connotation of your initial post lies.

How many times have you seen people declare all those that disagree with them stupid? How special.

It's so much easier than making an actual argument isn't it? What fun.

[grasswire]

103. welcome to DU and where did I do that?

Please show me.

[ecdab]

169. your initial post

"I'm fully convinced that Dems have fallen into a trap.

An unvetted nominee is the path to disaster for us.

As of today, with all those threads urging Hillary to submit to the cult of personality of the unvetted candidate, I believe the election of 2008 is lost for us.

Sigh. It was ours. Stupidity reigns."

And thanks for the welcome - I've actually been posting here for many years, but only do so when I have something to say.

You are, of course, entitled to to your opinion that Obama some how has a lesser chance of being elected than Hillary, though your case - as stated in this post - is hardly convincing. When you suggest that "stupidity reigns" because people take issue with your conclusion, I find that to be something less than a meaningful statement.

The suggestion that Obama will lead a "path to disaster" simply because he has not been "vetted" to the degree you would like seems like a preposterous statement. I would think that the Clinton camp has "vetted" him nearly as well as can be done - and turned up very little. Additionally, the only way a candidate would appear to be able to be "vetted" in a manner that would satisfy you (and correct me if I'm wrong) is for them to have been in the Washington spot light for years. Would DK have put us on a path to disaster because he hasn't been "vetted" as well as Hillary? How about Russ Fiengold? How about anybody other than Hillary, because few have been "vetted" as well as her. Seeing the amount of vetting that she has been through as a strength is not a mistake, but viewing anybody that hasn't been through that level of media attention as somebody that will lead us to disaster is pretty far out there.

Look - DK was the kind of policy maker I wanted to see in office, but that isn't where this race ended up. I'm tired of the cheap shots that are coming from supporters of both Clinton and Obama - but even more than that, I'm tired of reading post after post of drivel that accuses fellow Democrats of being stupid because they disagree over something as silly as what you have stated here.

DU is always at its best when people come together in support of the ideals of democracy and the Democratic Party. Now I've been around DU for previous primary battles, so the fact that it is ugly here comes as no surprise. But if you want to see stupidity reigning you need look no further than that ugliness.

Hillary would make a fine President (and an astronomical President when compared to McCain) and the actual policy differences between Obama and Hillary are thin (it's hard for me to remember two candidates that were separated by so little in that regard). It strikes as very odd watching the Obama and Clinton supporters going at each other with such reckless abandon when they are separated by so little. I guess it's the ability to communicate via the internet in a manner that allows all decorum and courtesy to be set aside playing out in the same silly dehumanized dance that it does everywhere else on the net. Fortunately there are still some people that post here that remember the value of courtesy.

Sorry to call you out specifically when there are so many here contributing to sad state of this board - you haven't done anything that many others haven't also done.

[sueragingroz]

115. you know the part that gets me?

If the big o wins, they will be expecting the Clintons to slap smiles on their faces and go out there and campaign for them...

[still_one]

137. Implying that anyone who supports Obama is stupid, but you are right, hate is too strong a word

However, insinuating that those who support Obama are stupid is equally shallow as was my choice of words

[muck17]

38. Agreed...kick

[ronnykmarshall]

39. No.

We will win if it's Obama or Hillary.

We have two candidates that will fight and will win.

[Bongo Prophet]

114. I have only one thing to say about your attitude, ronny

:loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya:

[ronnykmarshall]

133. I loves me some bongo!!!

[Hoof Hearted]

205. I agree. Either Clinton or Obama will win, and will be the next POTUS.

I just prefer Clinton.

[Kitty Herder]

44. check out Gallup's favorability ratings on candidates

Barack can kick McCain's ass. Hillary can't.

[TexasObserver]

65. That's why it is insane to have Hillary instead of Obama at the top of the ticket

[Kitty Herder]

73. agreed. nt

[TexasObserver]

78. Herdin' Cats is an old Jim Hightower line. Moving frogs in a wheel barrow another.

Jim is the guy who thought up the line that made former Oklahoma populist and Democratic Senator Fred Harris famous in his losing campaign of 1976:

"We aimed our campaign at the little people, but apparently they couldn't reach the voting levers!"

I probably mixed up the words, but that was the gist of it.

[whosinpower]

46. Good god

What a panty twisting waste of typing and oxygen. If this is how you feel - then it is no wonder why the republicans think the dems are weak. PAY ATTENTION NOW....the IRAQ WAR has been and continues to be an abysmmal failure - ABYSMAL - and almost every American I met on a recent trip were falling over themselves to tell me how much they HATE the war, how much they HATE George Bush, how much they HATE the republicans and how worried they are for the future. And this was me being very quiet about the whole thing so as not to go off on a rant - they were anxious - even eager to tell me of their anger....from New York to Texas, from young people to elderly men and women.

You have been handed 8 years of criminal actions by an administration that everyone agrees has been a horrendous drain on America, its moral authority, its economic status and its future. AND YOU SIT THERE AND WHINE LIKE A STUPID IDIOTIC BABY THAT IF OBAMA GETS THE NOMINATION, THE REPUBLICANS WILL WIN. Get a grip. Seriously. Honestly - you could probably run with Fido the dog and still win(no offence Obama or Clinton)

Support your candidate whomever it is. Listen, everyone knows the George Bush years - and NO BODY WANTS ONE MORE DAY OF IT. You have so much ammunition, it is overflowing - policy related ammunition - reams and reams and reams of it. Stick with facts and consequences of Bush world - that is all you need to do. This is not rocket science - and they have nothing to offer the vast majority of americans other than war, death and increased costs of living. And the majority of americans know from personal intimate experience what the republicans offer. whatever you do - do not fall into the trap of character assasination - stick with policies and consequences of those policies.

[grasswire]

58. bogus

What IS weak is to refuse to examine the leading candidate, when you know that the trap is laid for him.

That is insane.

We WERE handed a perfect opportunity to have the House, the Senate, and the White House.

That opportunity has been lost, probably, through starry-eyed mooing of people who don't have enough guts to demand more than pretty words.

Honestly, this is looking like Obama's team is following the Bush campaign playbook of 2000. Razzle dazzle 'em.

[whosinpower]

75. The opportunity is screaming out at you - regardless of Obama or Clinton

Nobody wants another 8 years of the same. Got it? Obama doesn't have to do more than pretty words---and guess what--neither does Clinton!

Your skepticism reminds me of a psy-ops program.

I'll state it again - the republicans will resort to charactor assasination - because that is ALL THEY HAVE TO FALL BACK ON - their record REEKS. George Bush record smells worse than fish left out in a bucket of water in the sun for 10 days. And the American people know it. They know it. Remind them of it. George Bush brought you the Iraq war. George Bush forgot about you after Hurricane Katrina. George Bush spies on you. George Bush ignores the needs of veterans. George Bush has bankrupted the nation and put your military under enormous strain with no exit strategy. George Bush DOES NOT CARE WHERE OSAMA BIN LADEN IS AND IT IS NO LONGER IMPORTANT TO HIM. And John McCain wants the same thing for the next 8 years.

[Tarheel_Dem]

97. DING! DING! DING!

best articulated post on this whole filthy thread. I don't get why so many here are angry that disaffected Repubs and Indies are with us this time. Isn't that what we want? A meeting of the minds? I say put the person at the top who will not only whip McCain's sorry ass, but benefit down ticket races as well. And that for my money, is Sen. Obama.

[USA_1]

51. Not So!

Democrats need to do several important things in order to win in November:


1) Ignore the stupidity of people like Mike Papantonio of Ring of Fire Radio. That nitwit said the Dems have no chance of winning Southern states and that they should just give up on them. Nothing could be more stupid! Look at the senatorial wins in Missouri and elsewhere --- these states can be won if the Democrats just try to win them! These states will not be won if no effort is made to win there. Dems must make sure that there are enough polling booths in Florida and Ohio and elsewhere. They must also campaign effectively in those states.

IF YOU DON'T DO THESE THINGS THEY WILL GO BACK TO THE PUKES!!!

2) It is a good bet that the GOP will again mount another Swift Boat horse shit campaign. This time, wise up and learn to fight back! The only reason why so many independent voters paid any attention to the Swift Boat liars is because the Democrats stupidly stood by and refused to fight back --- all this is viewed as weakness and this is why so many will again vote Republican because they absolutely hate weaknesses of any kind.

3) The Dem candidates must stop criticizing and attacking each other, NOW. Not later as the criticism will be used as ammo by the Pukes during the campaign.


As I have always said: the Democrats had no business giving up the White House in 2000 and in 2004. It wasn't that the Republican won. It was that the Democrats made no genuine effort to win.

Have you learned your lesson, yet? Or will the Dems allow the Pukes to win the White House and to f*ck up the USA forever???

[hijinx87]

53. unvetted doesn't necessarily mean anything

unless there is something to "vet", so to speak.

I voted for hillary in the primary, but I won't be heartbroken in the likely
event that obama wins the nomination. the contrast between obama and that cranky
old man will be dramatic.

[Renew Deal]

55. Then we are doomed, because Hillary will never be president.

But the odds are better on Obama. He polls better overall and he's willing to run in all 50 states.

[More Than A Feeling]

60. I guess we'll all just sit here and wait for the merciful darkness to take us, right?

:sarcasm:

[grasswire]

63. actually, something COULD be done

Someone could actually do some questioning and digging of Obama prior to the convention. Democrats could do the vetting that the Republicans have surely already done.

There would still be time for a dark horse, should anything turn up that the RNC will be using.

[More Than A Feeling]

84. That was the job of Clinton, Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, and Richardson.

If there was anything, their course of action would have been clear: leak it to the press and get Obama out of the way of their own ambitions. It's not like they didn't have enough time; they had a whole year, and all they could find was a Kindergarten essay saying that he wanted to run for president. If they could find that, but they couldn't find anything else, then I'm not too worried.

[Guava Jelly]

61. I respectfully disagree

I think your fears are very unmerited.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

64. I hear you

[hill08]

69. all it takes for McCain to defeat Obama

is a tiny terrorist attack on American interests or within the US. On the other hand, Hillary, as a perceived hawk, will fare much better against McCain in case of a terrorist action.

[Tarheel_Dem]

99. which is why a good deal of the base despises her.....

"On the other hand, Hillary, as a perceived hawk" No more hawks..thank you very much.

[sueragingroz]

122. yep that is if you guys actually get a chance to vote in the GE...

[respublicus]

174. is to mention Obama's pals with the Weathermen terror group

nothing against Obama, sure he's a nice guy, and sure he's not a terrorist of course, but I do believe he is a patsy who has been set up.

The Weathermen were a Cointelpro operation to destroy SDS, the Students for a Democratic Society. In other words, Obama's old pal Ayers is a covert agent. How else could he boast of setting bombs without getting arrested?

Obama, the naive soul of hope, has hung out with this Ayers scum, they were members of the board together in 1999-2002. So maybe that is part of Obama the set up.

How long will it take the Repukes to get it across to the frightened souls huddling in front of their TV sets that here you have a guy whose Dad was a Muslim and who hangs out with people who set bombs in the Pentagon?

They can save themselves the trouble of another false flag op. With the Weathermen connection, they got Obama already as a virtual terrorist.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aMzI3I6BAo_U&refer=politics

[momster]

196. Chicken Vesuvio

3 tablespoons olive oil
4 chicken thighs with skin and bones
Salt and freshly ground black pepper
1 1/2 pounds small red-skinned potatoes, halved
4 large garlic cloves, minced
3/4 cup dry white wine
3/4 cup chicken broth
1 1/2 teaspoons dried oregano
1 teaspoon dried thyme
8 ounces frozen artichoke hearts or 1 cup frozen lima beans, thawed
2 tablespoons unsalted butter
Preheat the oven to 450 degrees F.
Heat the oil in large ovenproof pot over high heat. Sprinkle the chicken with salt and pepper. Working in 2 batches if necessary, cook the chicken in the pot until golden brown on all sides, about 10 minutes. Transfer the chicken to a bowl. Carefully add the potatoes to the same pot and cook until they are golden brown, stirring occasionally, about 10 minutes. Add the garlic and saute for 1 minute. Add the wine and stir to scrape up any brown bits on the bottom of the pot. Add the broth, oregano, and thyme. Return the chicken to the pot. Stir to combine. Bring to a boil over medium-high heat.
Cover and bake in the oven until the chicken is cooked through, about 20 minutes. Transfer the chicken to a platter. Arrange the potatoes around chicken. Add the artichoke hearts to the sauce in the pot. Cover and simmer over high heat until the artichokes are tender, stirring often, about 4 minutes. Turn heat to low. Stir in the butter. Pour the sauce over chicken and potatoes, and serve.

[MrSlayer]

70. Well then we can't win at all because Hillary certainly wouldn't win.

Edwards would have won easily as would have Gore or Clark or better yet Gore/Clark.

[Skwmom]

74. Stupidity would reign to nominate Clinton who the Republicans

would only have to increase her negatives by a couple of points to win. Oh wait a minute, she's already done that all on her own.

[RBInMaine]

161. You are right on target. Hillary's negatives are HIGH !!

[AZBlue]

81. "Stupidity reigns."

INDEED!

[Moochy]

120. That OP was manifest destiny!

way to make one's own point!

[zulchzulu]

82. What a convincing argument... not...

I would suggest that to support the Clintons is a form of blind cultism.

I'm going to say it here. Obama will beat McCain by an overwhelming percent that even Diebold machines will not be able to steal away. McCain is going to be handed being the lesser end of a blowout that will make the Johnson/Goldwater match look close.

[CK_John]

85. Why does everyone think Cheney will let McCain get the nomination.I don't. n/t

[Alexander]

104. McCain's only 80 delegates away. What makes you think he can be stopped?

Once McCain has enough delegates, that's it, he's the nominee. And he's so close that nothing short of a dead girl, a live boy or some kind of health problem can stop him now.

[CK_John]

119. I sure Cheney has a wire file on every member of Congress and will be able to find something to get

McCain to step aside to spend more time with his family.

[ficus1]

86. Obama eats babies is basically what the OP is saying

[grasswire]

126. welcome to DU

Lotsa new folks tonight!

[Auntie Bush]

87. Since the Rethugs will make national security and foreign affairs

the most important issue...Obama won't have a chance. People will vote for the one with the most foreign policy experience. Hillary could outshine him on foreign policy in a debate. Anyone but McCain could have been beaten. I'm afraid we're doomed!
I just wish the Huckster had defeated McCain. Too bad he doesn't have a chance to win as he'd be a pushover. With Mccain vs. Obama...I fear we'll lose this election. :scared:

[earthlover]

88. Your post is erroneous on several levels....

For one, Obama has been vetted. By the big bad Hillary machine. They obviously have gone negative. And they have not been able to find....although you can bet they looked in every crack and crevace....anything that would hurt him. Their negative campaigning backfired, and Obama was skillfully able to shrug it off. I would say that qualifies as vetting.

Calling Obama's campaign a "cult of personality" is demeaning to the millions of Obama supporters. They are good Democrats, not cultists. Yes, Obama has a personality...something that Hillary lacks. If you call obama's charisma a cult of personality, you no doubt would have used the same phrase for FDR, JFK, Robert kennedy, MArtin Luther king Jr, and for that matter Ghandi. I am not comparing Obama to these great men, however your cynicism would no doubt be spread on these great men too.

Take a look at pollingreport.com Every single poll measuring Obama vs McCain has him doing better than Hillary. In some, Hillary actually loses to McCain. But in ALL, Obama does better than Hillary.

If Hillary is so strong a candidate that she can beat McCain, why can't she beat Obama? If Obama can't beat McCain, what makes you think someone who can't measure up electorally to Obama can? You are living in a dream world.

[ErnestoG]

91. Shall I call the Waaaahmbulence?

Give me a break. Recent polls show Obama BEATING McCain, and Hillary TYING McCain.

Now what part of that looks like an Obama loss to you?

[grasswire]

102. geez -- think, man!

Has the RNC gone after Obama yet?

NO.

Has the press gone after Obama yet?

NO.

Has the RNC gone after Hillary?

YES.

Has the press gone after Hillary?

YES.

Parse it.

[ErnestoG]

109. Parse THIS ->

Poll: Obama would narrowly beat McCain
Clinton and McCain polling even in general election survey

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23114982/

[grasswire]

121. argggghhhhhhh!

Do I have to repeat myself?

Has the RNC attacked Obama yet?

NO.

Has the press attacked Obama yet?

NO.

Has the RNC attacked Hillary yet?

YES.

Has the press attacked Hillary yet?

YES.

I guess I have to spell it out: The polls now are useless. The polls are USELESS until and unless the RNC and the press grill Obama thoroughly.

[ErnestoG]

136. Arrrrg all you want. Facts, are, Obama is our best shot.

You can take that up with the pollsters if you don't like that info.

[grasswire]

143. you're not making any sense

:eyeroll:

[ErnestoG]

144. Sure I am. I'm facing facts, I don't know what you are facing.

[miceelf]

186. That doesn't make sense

We should choose the candidate who has already been permanently damaged by the right wing smear machine to the point that her ceiling is 50.2%, rather than the one who MIGHT BE damaged later?

[FogerRox]

93. Please. ....... McCain loses like McGovern in '72

[Johnny__Motown]

94. Just your opinion, nothing to base it on. All polls have Obama Beating McCain

[jackson_dem]

98. Just like Bush 00' was beating Gore by 11 and Kerry up by 8 at this time in 2000 and 2004

What happened when they got vetted/attacked? St. Obama is immune to this? His slim 4-5 point lead over McCain should terrify us. The last two "new" nominees suffered an 11 point swing. If Obama does that he will lose by 6-7. That is how much Dukakis lost with, another "new" candidate who led by 17 at one point in these early polls...

[Alexander]

107. Your "logic" suggests the early polls will eventually swing the other way.

Ask President Mondale how that worked out for him.

[Johnny__Motown]

125. No, I am not afraid of them and you shouldn't be either. They can't pull the same tricks forever

and while he may not be immune to attacks he is much harder to attack then the Clintons. (or even McCain)

Gore lost because of Bill's affair. If Bill had not damaged this party so badly then we never would have had a 2nd Bush to clean up after.

Kerry tried to run as an anti-war candidate who voted for the war, who does that sound like?


Stop being afraid and vote for the best person.

[grasswire]

112. welcome to DU

Once again, a flaw in the argument.

Has the RNC attacked Obama?

NO.

Has the press attacked Obama?

No.

Has the RNC attacked Clinton?

YES.

Has the press attacked Clinton?

YES.

Parse it.

[Johnny__Motown]

118. Please, you think Hillary won't be attacked. Where are her tax returns?..

what about all the papers that the Clintons refuse to release that would confirm (or refute) her experience in his administration?

We also have 7 years of Bill's foundation and his dealing getting Uranium to a dictator (among other things)

The RNC has not attacked the Clintons in 8 years, don't worry there is plenty for them to dig up on them.


Also. We have read Obama's Kindergarten Essays. we know he tried cocaine in his teens, he admitted it in his own book long ago.

Everything that can be used against him has been used against him already, the Clintons don't hold back on attacks and you know it.


You have nothing to base your opinion on except you r irrational fear or the Republicans. Grow up. They are not that scary and the majority of the American Electorate has caught onto their tricks.

[ErnestoG]

140. Are you serious? They will dine on her bones.

It's going to be so ugly, what they do to her if gods forbid, she gets the nom.

[ErnestoG]

138. Funny how the Hillars are amping up the shrillness to drown out the facts...

[jackson_dem]

95. You're right. The msm has pushed Obama all along for this reason and now McCain is aiding Obama

[ErnestoG]

111. HAHA!! How much tinfoil did you have to wear to come up with that one?

I'm guessing an entire roll!

[Straight Shooter]

100. I remember you!

Just got back on DU, myself, maybe a month ago. This is the first post I've seen by you, but I remember you well from GD.

:hi:

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine. My spidey-sense tells me that Obama the anti-war tot will be slain by the Mighty Warrior McCain.

Jeez, have you seen the photos of McCain on magazine covers and web sites lately? Very patriarchal, steely stare. The games have just begun, my friend. Even the photo of Obama on The Economist is less than flattering.

[momster]

198. Static Images Don't Matter

They can put McCain in a Superman costume on the top of the Empire State Building in a still shot but the minute he moves or talks he's Tim Conway in a World's Oldest Man skit. The sound of his voice puts hyperactive coke-drinking 4 yr olds to sleep, when he narrows his eyes he looks less like John Wayne staring down the baddies and more like somebody who misplaced his glasses*, and his smile looks like what a kid draws on a frosty windowpane. This is not a warm guy, this is not Mr. Neighborhood, this is not somebody Americans want to see on their T.V. every damn day. He represents the past, physically as well as philosophically, and every time he opens his mouth (100 yrs of war! Tax cuts...they're Grrreat! Torture could be a good thing!) puts him farther away from the Top Job.

*Check the top of your head.

[Deja Q]

101. Who said any of the candidates' victories would mean we'd all live long and prosper?

[New Dawn]

106. John McCain would crush Hillary Clinton

The Republican base would be fully motivated to defeat her and the corporate media loves John McCain. I think McCain would win by at least 10 points in the popular vote against Hillary.

Obama has the best chance of beating McCain according to all the polls.

[ErnestoG]

113. That's the obvious truth.

Recent polls bear that out, and any common sense does too. Out of Hillary or Obama, who has the largest most white hot hateful group of antagonists? Do a google search on all the Hillary Hate sites, you'll be busy for days.

[Perry Logan]

176. Time to retire that hoary meme. A Gallop poll shows that Hillary would NOT motivate the Repub base.

They asked some Republicans point-blank if a Hillary candidacy would motivate them. Only 17% said yes. So we'd appreciate it if you'd stop repeating that one.

[varelse]

116. Oh, I don't think so

Obama is one of two perfectly electable and in fact very bright and capable (not to mention attractive and personable) Democratic front runners. Granted they're not "my" favorites from among the original lineup, but they're still WAY above the standard of any of the potential Republican nominees. Even pushing partisanship aside for a moment, compare the competence levels of either of these two, to their counterparts "across the aisle". Please, it's a no brainer.

Honestly, if either of these two were to lose the GE, it'd be clear and obvious proof that our democracy has died on the operating table and possibly can not be revived.

Obama has my support for the GE if he is the Democratic choice, just as Clinton would if she wins the nomination.

[intheflow]

203. Not to mention that 1/2 the Republican party hates McCain.

To those Repukes, he's as liberal as Clinton or Obama. I think his nomination has a good chance of making RW voters stay home on election day.

[varelse]

206. I think you have a very good point

it looks like the Republican party is going to try to focus on the moderate to conservative independents and the "fiscal conservative" Republicans, and let the "far right" vote go... unless, of course, they do something like add Cheney, Huckabee or Rice to the ticket as VP. Just sayin'

[intheflow]

208. I don't think adding any of those three would help the Repuke candidate.

Mainline and fiscal conservatives are suspicious of Huckabee's theocratic vision for America, and even the most ardent repukes recognize that Cheney's been a big part of the problem with the public's dissatifaction with th Bush administration. Normally I'd agree with you about Rice, but I think either her race or her gender (or both) will be problems a lot of republicans can't get over. Not to mention the left can always bring up how se let the terrorists slip through on 9-11.

Now if they had put her up as presidential candidate against Clinton and/or Obama, then I think Rice would have been a contender because the GOP could claim they were neither sxist nor racist then use her as a figure head while some puppetmaster as VP wielded the real power--just like Bush is puppet to Cheney's evil plans. Just sayin'.

[Moochy]

117. They change the Vetting rules

They removed the no melanin rule a while back when you were out.

[grasswire]

123. are you calling me a racist?

I don't get your message.

[Moochy]

128. Are you Calling me A Racist?

[KoKo]

124. ALL STATES NEED TO VOTE...Until one of the Last Two are Left Standing...for Fairness.

otherwise there will be so much bitterness and anger.

[TreasonousBastard]

127. Well, take your convincement somewhere else...

this is an election, not a church service.

[stevietheman]

130. For somebody "unvetted", he sure is running the best campaign for the...

Democratic nomination we've ever seen!

I would guess the opposite -- He fully knows what he is doing.

[ileus]

132. I can beat McCain, and I'm not even running.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alexander]

142. Hmm. He won't win because he's black and his middle name is "Hussein"?

Take your drivel back to Free Republic.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

154. Spamalama Ding Dong

You are 90% transparent, I see pixels behind you.

[Barack_America]

139. Your paranoia is noted.

However, I disagree and the current head-to-head polls support my opinion.

[grasswire]

141. you made my point

The polls reflect the fact that Obama hasn't been vetted.

[Barack_America]

146. Or that Independents prefer the guy who doesn't want to stay in Iraq for 100 years...

:shrug:

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

147. Ann Coulter...is that you?

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[KoKo]

149. It's hard to know how desperate people are for CHANGE...and HOPE...

His showing in Virginia would seem to show that the Evangelicals and Racists are dead. They've all come over to Obama. But...can we believe the Exit Polls.. Do we know the truth of this.

I don't. And, I don't know which one I can vote for... :shrug:

[Moochy]

150. Spamalama Trolling

Press CTRL-A CTRL-X



Clear out your clipboard it looks heavy with bullshit posts.

[liberalnurse]

177. National Polls had Rudy G. as the next President too.

If you don't open your eyes now................they will when the fear factor hits cause Obama-mania is a set-up, just movie-trailer hype for ratings. Media loves to tear down a democratic successfully. The Clinton's are the only survivors who they continue to try and tear down...

[surfermaw]

148. This is what happens when we are so stupid to see the republicans picked and funded our candidate

How can we be so stupid, Al Gore should have been our one pickd for the presidency ....Is there a possobility he might still be or could be brought around to throw his hat in the ring at the Convention.. Unless he does our goose is cooked.

[KoKo]

152. The "Powers that BE" ....pick our candidates. Bunch of Think Tanks and Corporatists...

and I think Gore just couldn't deal with it anymore. He has to work with them now in his new efforts. It's gotta be something he can only tolerate in limited amounts...coughing it down..to achieve his goal.

Until we build a big base to counteract the Think Tanks run by Corporate and Military Interests...we will have to do the best we can with our efforts. :shrug: That's what gives me "Hope for Change." Not a politician...at this point. :shrug:

[McCamy Taylor]

151. Obama beats McCain. Rove probably has dirt on Obama from AT&T's domestic spying and that

is why he initially wanted him to be the nominee and not Edwards (who has probably never said an incriminating thing on the phone) or Hillary (ditto).

However, after watching Obama, I believe that he has Bill Clinton's ability to talk his way out of anything. No matter what kind of dirt Karl Rove tries to unleash on him, I believe that Obama will turn it back on him. Plus, Obama's supporters have been excellent about seeing any criticism of him as suspect.

I have to trust that if there was something criminal that would land Obama in jail (where he could not run) that he would not be running.

Short of that, I do not see how he can be stopped by McCain.

I hope that Obama brings up AT&T and domestic spying if/when Rove and associates start trying to spread smears about him, Indeed, if Obama is the nominee, it might be a good idea to start spreading the word to expect dirty stories about him and family and associates to start making the rounds and to speculate that some of the information will have been obtained illegally from the domestic spying operation. That means that any story that does surface is immediately suspect.

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

157. Maybe Your Kind of White People

the ones you meet with and put on white sheets with.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

162. Hey Hey Ho Ho

Stupid asswipe trolls have got to go!

[Barack_America]

163. Enough with the racism.

You've posted nothing but racist, divisive shit. Care to say anything useful before you are inevitably tombstoned?

[Moochy]

165. Every time he posts a Klansman gets his hood!

[workinclasszero]

155. Unvetted?? What a F'in joke!

OTOH, Hillary's been "vetted" all right.

Voted to allow the boy-king the right to invade Iraq, voted to screw the middle class with the bankruptcy bill, pushed NAFTA with Bill that destroyed countless high paying manufacturing jobs.

Oh yeah, and did union busting work for the Rose law firm and Walmart!

Hillary has been HELL on working class people in this country and she needs to stop her controversial, divisive campaign now and get behind the winner!

GOBAMA!!

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moochy]

167. everyone move away from this poster!! for your own safety!

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/05/falling_tombsto.html

Falling half-ton tombstone breaks man's legs

Here's the problem with drinking and tombstone-tipping: Sometimes the tombstone fights back.

Police say that's what happened in Merrillville, Ind., where a half-ton tombstone fell on a man after he apparently tried to knock it over. It broke both of his legs, trapped him and left the letter 'V' imprinted in one of his thighs, and five officers were neededs to move the tombstone off of the man.

[Arugula Latte]

168. You are the one living in Dream World.

Hillary is the weakest candidate we've got.

Oh, and welcome to DU.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arugula Latte]

166. I agree with your heading except for one word. Switch out "Hillary" for "Obama."

Hillary is the trap. Hillary has the high negatives. Hillary is the one the GOP wants to run against. Hillary is the only one who will spur the demoralized Republicans to come out to vote -- against her.

[Imagevision]

170. Most polls show Obama easily defeating McCain, if he can beat Billary? McCain is a cake walk

[HuffleClaw]

171. yup. but hillary is just as vulnerable as he is if not more so

the republican-owned corporate media CHOSE these two as the anointed loooooong ago and the public ate it up and demanded more. edwards, kucinich, & gore (if he'd decided to run) were better choices but the public instead chose to let the media decide for them who was 'in the race'.

[mysteryman2]

172. Electability/Cacaus doesn't represent ish

Hillary got the vote in the most heavily populated states and cities, NYC, L.A. CA. etc. etc.

[TheDonkey]

173. It's a traaaaaap!!!

Now Obama is the Death Star?

[Ryano42]

190. Darth Obama?

:rofl:

[Hippo_Tron]

178. NOBODY is truly vetted until they win the nomination and face the GOP in the general election

If you think they've dug up everything on Hillary that they possibly can then I have a bridge to sell you.

It won't be Whitewater and Vince Foster, it will be some fabricated bullshit that you've never even heard of. The same is true for Obama.

And I've got news for you, going up against Rick Lazio in a state that Al Gore won by 20 points that year doesn't count as facing the full wrath of the GOP smear machine.

BTW I'm confident in both Clinton and Obama's abilities to win the general election. I'm just not convinced that Clinton has substantially more actual experience battling the Republicans. Sure she had a front row seat to watch her husband do it, but after all of the mud was thrown at them it was Bill, not her, that faced the referendum from the American people and came out victorious.

[Perry Logan]

179. A series of white women will come forward to say they had sex with him. That's my nightmare scenario

[Maribelle]

184. There's no way a majority of Floridians will vote for the Kerry-Kennedy-Obama triangle.

Not with what they have done to the c. 1.7 million democrats that voted in the January 29th primary.

[paperbag_ princess]

187. everyone is wrong

Both candidates can win.....but it will not be a cakewalk. Who cares that the public is ready for a change...everyone thought that they were ready for a change in 2004 too...but the Right wingers faithfully came to the polls in droves...keeping Bush on top.

They will faithfully come to the polls in the GE regardless of whether or not they are excited...they see it as their duty.

We will win if and only if the losing half in the primaries gets behind whoever wins the nomination and fights like it was their candidate that won. We all have to fight like crazy with money and time. If we can all work together we will win...if there is any complacency we will lose.

The winning candidate's supporters will have to do some butt kissing and the losing candidates supporters will have swallow their pride.

[RamboLiberal]

188. With HRC having 46-47% saying they would never vote for her

I fear she will lose the 2008 election. She will also galvanize those Republicans who hate Clinton and are not thrilled about McCain to vote for him. And she will lose a lot of independents.

At best we'll be once more sitting up in the early morning hours hoping for one close battleground state to go for us.

Obama could well pick up some SW or Western states that would make this unnecessary.

[indimuse]

189. I agree and HAVE agreed for a while now.

To some so obvious..to others...blindness. The smack down will be quick and merciless. His educated fans have very short memories. Or love to swim in the pool of "denial!" Sad but true...MSM has played them again...and his supporter (who should know better!!!!!!!) have helped to abolish any chance of the WH in 2009 if this BHO is the nom. For me ...I'm about finished with this crap..I can only stand stupid for so long. His unvetted candidacy is absurd and won't last too much longer.Get ready for a REAL CHANGE! When they change their hand and begin to expose Obama and his past to America...their way...will NOT be pretty!

[SoxFan]

191. "Vetted"

Isn't the point of "vetting" to learn whether or not there is something wrong beneath the surface?

If Hillary has been vetted, I'd say she came up a bit lacking:

Whitewater
Travelgate
Billing records
The health care fiasco
Knee-capping Jim Cooper (and electing Bill Frist)

[rucky]

193. You've fully convinced yourself.

We're all looking at the same set of facts, here. You've chosen the most grim interpretation. Why? Because we're stupid and you're not? Whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

[Name removed]

194. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lex Talionis]

195. Actually,

If the Clinton's get the nomination you WILL lose. If Obama gets it, you MAY lose. Stupidity doesn't reign. Right now the koolaid drinkers do. People wanting a REAL change, are waking up. I've asked these questions before. Why do you think that, Bill and Bush Sr., have been so buddy buddy Lately? Also in the last election, did you notice we had two mega rich white men, from the same Elite college, members of the same secret organization, who both wore red ties and blue suits during the debates? No, I don't think we are stupid at all.

The wolf howls.
The guard dog barks.
The sheep look up.

[mikekohr]

197. Obama Most Likely To Deliver Landslide Victory

In nearly every contested caucus and primary Senator Clinton out polls Senator Obama among Democratic party regulars. Senator Obama's strength is among first-time voters, independents and cross-over Republicans. The Republican base will fall in line (as they are now behind Senator McCain). Our party regulars will get behind our nominee, regardless of whether that person is Senator Clinton or Senator Obama.

It will be the swath of the demographic that is Senator Obama's strength that will decide who wins the White House. This same demographic shows affinity for Senator McCain, as it has shown in the past for Ross Perot, and Ronald Reagan. It's support put RapMaster Ronnie over the top in 1980 and 1984 and it's support for Perot in 1992 and 1996 allowed Bill Clinton to slide past his Republican competition.

I live in a county that has been dominated by the Republican Party since 1832. Senator Obama is attracting support among people here, and across the nation, that have never shown desire to support any Democrat.

We will make big gains in the Senate and in the House this fall. But like it or not, to win the White House, and to lift the entire ticket even higher will require the ability to attract support among independents, moderates, and to be able to peel away that thin sliver of reasonable Republicans. Senator Obama has demonstrated that ability. Senator Clinton, not so much.

mike kohr

[Lex Talionis]

199. Listen up people! Truer words have never been spoken.

mike kohr says:"But like it or not, to win the White House, and to lift the entire ticket even higher will require the ability to attract support among independents, moderates, and to be able to peel away that thin sliver of reasonable Republicans. Senator Obama has demonstrated that ability. Senator Clinton, not so much."

I voted for Perot, Twice. Call me naive, or stupid if you want, too. Most Clinton supporters I know never acknowledge the fact the ol' Ross helped put them in office. He was 100% right about NAFTA, too. Good post.

[mike_c]

201. I don't have any faith in EITHER candidate....

Dems need to purge the DLC from their leadership ranks.

[Evergreen Emerald]

202. second election in a row. The dems keep believing the media lies

[TexasObserver]

204. This thread title always deserves a good laugh. Only a delusional Hill fan could even type it.

The trap is thinking Hillary can win.

[KoKo]

207. It;s hard to know but your post deserves a kick...given the opposition...

who is dictating...:kick: I'm all for FREE VOICES to the CONVENTION!