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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:28 AM
Original message
Some of the Many reasons that Hillary is Unsupportable!
The unreleased Tax returns,

and unamed but sold Clinton Library and Clinton Foundation donors

and......



THE DONOR
Norman Hsu, Hong Kong "apparel executive."


THE GREEN
Hsu bundled more than $850,000 for Hillary's presidential campaign and $260,000 for Clinton's Senate races.


THE SCANDAL
Hsu parlayed his charming, obsequious personality into a spot as one of the top twenty Democratic fund-raisers nationwide. Problem is, he turned out to be a convicted felon, on the lam since 1992 due to a grand theft conviction. Then, this December, Hsu was indicted for running a pyramid scheme that defrauded investors out of at least $20 million and that made $25,000 a year in fraudulent political donations.


THE SLEAZE FACTOR (on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 somewhat sleazy and 10 stupendously so)
8. Hsu missed his initial (September 5) court date for the 1992 grand theft charge, only to be apprehended a day later on a train in Colorado; he was "freaked out," shirtless, shoeless, and holding a suitcase packed with Tiffany jewelry and $7,000 in cash. Now in federal custody, he confessed to running "phony" companies and leaning on investors to make political donations.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS (on a scale of 1 to 10)
7. Extensive Hsu coverage stretched out over several news cycles during Hillary's presidential campaign, and the sordid details of the affair--the pyramid schemes, the links to Asian gangs, the eccentric professional con artist himself--stirred up memories of Clinton fund-raising scandals past. Hillary blamed the fiasco on errors in the donor-screening process.


**


THE DONOR
Marc Rich, fugitive American businessman; Denise Rich, songwriter and socialite.


THE GREEN
Denise Rich contributed $70,000 to Hillary's Senate campaign and $450,000 to the Clinton presidential library fund.


THE SCANDAL
Over seventeen years after Marc Rich fled to Switzerland to avoid charges of racketeering, illegal trading, and tax evasion (he owed $48 million), Bill Clinton pardoned Rich during his last moments in the White House. His ex-wife Denise's generous donations and Friend of Bill status gave the pardon a particularly rotten stench.


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
7.5. Rich has been accused of a long list of white-collar crimes. The classiest: trading with Iran while the country was still holding U.S. hostages.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
9.5. As Hillary began her career in the Senate, a media frenzy and investigations in both houses of Congress and the Justice Department were launched to see if Denise's contributions bought her ex-husband's pardon. Though the president was never indicted for wrongdoing, the Rich affair is often mentioned as Exhibit A of Clintonian sliminess.


**


THE DONOR
Aaron Tonken, former Hollywood fund-raiser, current federal penitentiary inmate in California.


THE GREEN
In 2000 he hosted a fund-raiser that took in more than $1 million for Hillary Clinton's Senate campaign.


THE SCANDAL
Tonken originally drew interest from the FBI for failing to report some donations from the event to the FEC. Although he was never charged for election-law violations, in 2003 he pleaded guilty to stealing from charities, including, according to an ABC News report, the Betty Ford clinic. He is currently serving a five-year sentence for mail and wire fraud.


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
9. The self-described con man got his start in Hollywood as Zsa Zsa Gabor's dog keeper. He sold stories about her to tabloids and snuck tourists into her dilapidated, dog feces-ridden mansion while she was out of town. In his memoir, King of Cons, Tonken wrote, "In a land of moral imbeciles, I knew I could be king."


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
4. A fund-raising committee for Hillary Clinton's 2000 campaign had to pay $35,000 in fines to the FEC for underreporting the costs of the gala, even though a federal inquiry failed to find any culpability on the Clintons' part. The financial burden to the Clinton campaign was insignificant--the real harm done was in the image of guilt by association.


**


THE DONOR
Peter F. Paul, renaissance man, jack of all trades.


THE GREEN
He co-hosted the 2000 fund-raiser with Tonken.


THE SCANDAL
How did Paul underwrite the gala? According to The Washington Post, by improperly borrowing more than $4 million from Merrill Lynch. Shortly after that was discovered, Paul hopped a plane to Brazil and spent years waging a two-front war: fighting extradition and trying to sue Hillary for underreporting the value of the event. In 2003, Paul was extradited to the U.S., and Clinton agreed to pay a $35,000 fine to the Federal Election Commission.


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
9.5. You've gotta give this guy credit for flamboyance. According to The Washington Post, Paul's laundry list of crimes includes a 1970s plot to sell $8.75 million worth of nonexistent coffee beans to Fidel Castro--the plan was to sink an empty cargo ship before it reached Cuba so he could keep the cash. In 1979, he was imprisoned for fraud and cocaine possession, then later violated parole, reportedly fleeing to Canada with a dead man's identity. After his release from prison in the '80s, he served as partner and manager to Fabio.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
4. Hillary offered the same explanation for missing Paul's criminal background as she gave for missing Norman Hsu's: technical errors in the vetting process. It worked--by 2008, most Americans have forgotten about Peter F. Paul.


**


THE DONOR
Sant S. Chatwal, founder of Bombay Palace restaurants.


THE GREEN
In 2000, Chatwal hosted a half-million dollar fund-raiser for Clinton in New York. In 2007, he declared his intentions to raise $5 million for Hillary's presidential campaign.


THE SCANDAL
According to The Washington Post, as of September 2007, The IRS was pursuing him for $4 million in back taxes, the State of New York for another $5 million, and the FDIC is suing himin connection with a failed bank venture. The Post wrote, "Yet none of the legal and financial woes--occasionally touched on in American or Indian newspapers or highlighted by political opponents--raised red flags inside Hillary Clinton's fund-raising operation."


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
4. Though Chatwal's legal troubles span several suits and two continents (he's also been charged with bank fraud in India), his alleged crimes lack the color and imagination of, say, a Peter F. Paul.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
1. So far, none. But if any of the lawsuits against him come to a head during election season, the timing would be awful for Clinton.


**


THE DONOR
International Profit Associates (IPA), an Illinois-based management consulting and business development company.


THE GREEN
Bill Clinton pocketed $125,000 for addressing IPA workers in December 2001. The Chicago Sun-Times reported that firm employees have forked over nearly $130,000 in contributions to Hillary's Senate campaigns since 2000.


THE SCANDAL
IPA has faced a string of scandals--most notably, a widely reported sexual harassment suit involving 113 former female employees. Two of them told their stories on a 2005 episode of "Oprah Winfrey Show."


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
8.5. The harassment suit included accusations that the CEO offered money to a female employee in exchange for sex and that a sales manager would pin female employees up against the wall and ask if they enjoyed intercourse.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
3. Though never a large-scale national scandal, it doesn't look good that Hillary has, in effect, shrugged off what the lead attorney for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (the federal agency leading the investigation) called one of the "most egregious case of sex harassment that the Chicago district office has seen." Senator Clinton--unlike other politicians who received campaign donations from IPA employees, such as Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich and Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle--has opted not to return the contributions.


**


THE REELECTION FUND-RAISING FIASCO

The tangled web of scandals associated with the Clinton-Gore reelection campaign in 1996 led to hearings by a Senate committee led by Fred Thompson. Though Thompson's hearings are widely considered to have been a bust, several unsavory characters came to light.



THE DONOR
Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie, Taiwanese-Arkansan restaurateur-turned-fund-raiser.


THE GREEN
Trie funnelled more than $2.2 million, much of it from foreign corporate donors, to the DNC from 1994-1996 and helped pay $460,000 of the Clintons' legal bills between 1994-1997.


THE SCANDAL
Trie, who knew Clinton from his days as the owner of the Fu Lin restaurant in Little Rock, moved to Washington in 1994 and began donating to the Clintons and the DNC through various shady channels, including through "straw donors," typically poor legal immigrants who stand in for foreign businesspeople.


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
7. Trie was notorious for peddling access to President Clinton. Most distressingly, he set up a White House coffee klatch with a Chinese arms dealer.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
7. Trie earned the dubious distinction of being the first Clinton donor indicted during the Justice Department's 1997 campaign finance investigation.


**


THE DONOR
John Huang, businessman and Commerce Department official under the Clinton administration from 1993 to 1995.


THE GREEN
He raised $3.4 million for the DNC in 1996. Most of it has since been returned.


THE SCANDAL
In 1996 Huang solicited an illegal donation of $250,000 from a company in South Korea, as well as $425,000 from donors whose U.S. citizenship was an issue of contention. He also co-organized a 1996 fund-raising event at the Hsi Lai Temple in Southern California, where monks and nuns under an oath of poverty mysteriously contributed large sums of money to the DNC. It was later revealed that they were reimbursed for their donations by the church, and the money had to be returned.


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
7.5. Thompson's committee suggested darkly that Huang may have been acting as an "agent of influence" for China, though the committee ultimately had scant evidence supporting the plot.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
8. Considerable. Though the money he raised was primarily for the DNC, Huang had remarkable access to the president and the West Wing. The Commerce Department even gave him a top-secret security clearance--with a cursory background check far less thorough than normal procedure--when he was still a private citizen.


**


THE DONOR
James Riady, Indonesian banking magnate.


THE GREEN
Riady and his business associates gave more than $700,000 to the Democratic Party between 1991 and 1997. They also paid $100,000 to Clinton friend Webster L. Hubbell, who resigned from his job as associate attorney general after being charged with tax evasion and mail fraud.


THE SCANDAL
Riady, a regular visitor to the Clinton White House, was busted by the Justice Department in 2001 for funneling foreign corporate money into Clinton's 1992 election effort. (He had to pay out $8.6 million to the DOJ--the largest campaign finance settlement in history.) In 1997, the Thompson-led committee accused Riady of maintaining "a long-term relationship with a Chinese intelligence agency."


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
7. Riady was a big fund-raiser for Bill from his Arkansas days, and repeatedly pressed Clinton on sensitive foreign policy issues. Riady was also closely linked to a number of other scandals, including the improper appointment of John Huang (a former manager at Riady's company) and the Hsi Lai Temple fund-raiser (which was organized by Huang).


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
6. In 1997, pre-cigar, William Safire called the Riady affair "the low point of the Clinton Presidency." Still, his name is all but forgotten today.


**


THE DONOR
Johnny Chung, a Taiwan-born, California-based businessman.


THE GREEN
He gave $366,000 in personal and corporate donations between 1994 and 1996. All the money was returned by the DNC.


THE SCANDAL
Chung's contributions to the Democratic Party earned him significant access to the Clinton administration: He made at least 49 visits to the White House between 1994 and 1996. He arranged for five of his Chinese business clients to attend a taping of one of President Clinton's weekly radio addresses after making a $50,000 donation to the DNC. Furthermore, Chung claimed that part of his donated funds came from sources connected to the Chinese government. (The Chinese government emphatically denies the allegations.)


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
7. Ick! One radioactively slimy Chung quote: "The White House is like a subway: You have to put in coins to open gates."


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
7. Chung was one of the most recognizable--and damning-- figures in the campaign finance controversy; 49 White House visits will have that effect.



**


THE DONOR
Roger Tamraz, a Lebanese-American businessman.


THE GREEN
Tamraz and his company donated $300,000 to the Democratic Party in 1995 and 1996.


THE SCANDAL
In 1996, Tamraz apparently sought to leverage his donations into a face-to-face meeting with President Clinton over the objections of a National Security Council staff member. Members of the Democratic National Committee, the CIA, and the Clinton administration were all alleged to have gone to bat on Tamraz's behalf to allow him access to the White House. Tamraz then used the meeting to propose a $2.5-billion oil pipeline through Central Asia, a proposal that was then passed on to officials in the Energy Department. (Nothing ever came of it.) He was later a key witness at the Thompson committee hearings.


THE SLEAZE FACTOR
7. Know when your reputation could use a boost? When The New York Times writes sentences about you like this: "Indeed, in describing Mr. Tamraz in testimony on Wednesday and again today, the adjective used most often by lawmakers was 'shady.'" (It didn't help that when Joe Lieberman asked Tamraz at the Senate hearing if he thought he got his "money's worth" for his $300,000 donation, Tamraz replied "I think next time I'll give $600,000.") Also, at the time of his meeting with Clinton, Tamraz was wanted by Interpol for allegedly embezzling hundreds of millions of dollars from a Beirut bank. In a separate case before that, the Times reported, a French court had ordered him to pay $56 million for his role in the collapse of a French bank.


THE DAMAGE TO THE CLINTONS
3.5. Not so bad in the context of the larger scandals. But Tamraz's name continues to surface from time to time, most recently on the best-seller list and the movie marquee. The saga of a man (modeled after Tamraz) using cash to gain access and influence in the White House appeared in former CIA agent Robert Baer's book See No Evil, which served as the inspiration for Syriana.




**


HONORABLE MENTIONS

So many donors, so little time. Here, other donors who have sullied the Clintons' reputation over the years.

Jeffrey Epstein: In 2002, the wealthy money-manager and Friend of Bill flew the former president in his private jet to Africa to discuss AIDS policy. He was recently indicted on charges of soliciting prostitution from underage girls. The Smoking Gun has the gruesome details. (Warning: Link is disgusting.)

John K.H. Lee: The South Korean businessman scored a meeting with President Clinton in 1996 after making a $250,000 donation to the DNC. Under U.S. federal election law, foreign companies and individuals are not permitted to make donations, but Lee tried to skirt the restriction by donating via a U.S. subsidiary of his company, which, problematically, didn't really exist. When it was discovered in September 1996 that the money had originated from Lee's South Korea-based parent company, the DNC returned the contribution.

Pauline Kanchanalak: Kanchanalak, a business executive and Democratic fund-raiser who met frequently with President Clinton, was sentenced to six months of house arrest in 1996 for funneling $690,000 of foreign contributions to the DNC. She claimed the money came from her in-laws.

Ng Lap Seng: The businessman and owner of Macau's Fortuna Hotel (per The Washington Post, "known as much for its prostitutes working the lobby as for its floor show of whip-wielding, leather-clad dancers upstairs") wired more than one million dollars to convicted Clinton donor Charlie Trie between 1994 and 1996 through a company the two co-owned--nearly a quarter of that money ended up in the DNC's hands. Ng attended DNC events and met with the Clintons at the White House.

Abdul Rehman Jinnah: According to the Los Angeles Times, this Pakistani immigrant raised more than $45,000 for Hillary Clinton's HillPac, allegedly reimbursing employees who contributed to Democratic causes, including Clinton's political action committee, which is illegal. He fled to Pakistan after a grand jury indicted him for violations of election law in 2006, and was placed on the FBI "featured fugitives" list. He returned to the U.S. last year.

Ron Burkle: He's never been accused of any crimes, but Ron Burkle lies at the center of any innuendo about Bill Clinton's post-presidential life. A much-commented-upon May 2006 New York Times article stated, "Mr. Clinton is rarely without company in public, yet the company he keeps rarely includes his wife. Nights out find him zipping around Los Angeles with his bachelor buddy, Ronald W. Burkle." The zippy Burkle, friends with Bill since 1992, often flies the former president in his private Boeing 575, described by Clinton as "Ron Air" and "Air Force Two." Burkle, also reportedly a "longtime friend" of Michael Jackson, has thrown lavish fund-raisers for Hillary at Green Acres, his Hollywood estate. Rumors abound about the supermarket billionaire's private life. "Page Six" covered Bill's bachelor buddy unfavorably, writing that he used the jet to entertain young models--and that he was dating Gisele Bundchen. Burkle then made headlines by secretly recording an alleged extortion attempt by a reporter for the gossip column. He has also been accused of using his influence as a Democratic donor to speed a law through the California legislature that would have kept the records of his messy divorce proceedings sealed.

Bill Clinton has been a senior advisor to Burkle's Yucaipa Cos. since early 2002. Clinton is only now trying to untangle himself from the company, a move that will simultaneously free him from questions about Yucaipa's ties to Dubai, while also netting a reported $20 million payday. One particularly shady deal Clinton's scheduler helped Yucaipa arrange was its investment in Catholic Church properties at the urging of a young Italian businessman named Raffaello Follieri. As The Wall Street Journal reported last fall, in 2005, Follieri intimated to Clinton aide Douglas Band that Yucaipa could make a killing on the deal--and that his ties to the Vatican would smooth the transaction. Yucaipa plowed as much as $100 million into the venture, and Band was paid a $400,000 "finder's fee" by Follieri. The Italian then spent Yucaipa's cash on an apartment in New York, private jets, and gifts for himself and his girlfriend, The Devil Wears Prada star Anne Hathaway. Burkle is currently suing Follieri for misappropriating at least $1.3 million.
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=076fd56f-4aca-4683-a9d1-3c55d748946e&k=60222







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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Let;'s see...
at three threads a day.... (carry the 2)... we can expect 270 threads from you on this over the next 3 months?

She said she'll release her tax returns if she's the nominee - that's typically how it's done. It's how Kerry did it, and there was no uproar then.

And as you know, because I've told you at least 10 times, people's charitable contributions are private. The Clinton Library is a private foundation, and has no obligation whatsoever to release their donor list - in fact, it would be a terrible breach of trust.

My charitable contributions are none of your business.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I don't want to wait till after she's the nominee to see her fucking tax return......
what part of that do you have difficulties understanding?

Why wait till I have no choice.

I refused to be Bamboozled!
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Did Edwards release his?
No.

It's never been required or even expected that candidates all release their tax returns during the primaries. You're inventing a fake issue, just as the library donor list is a fake issue.

And you've participated in many threads discussing these topics before - so why start new ones? Just to try to hurt one of our candidates, right? That's just a stupid, petty, mean, ugly, childish, unproductive thing to do. But I expect nothing less.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Did I support Edwards?
No.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I didn't say you did
I had you pegged for a Alan Keyes type.

I used Edwards as an example of a candidate who didn't release his tax returns. Of course, nobody here said boo about it.

Now it's just a fake, made up talking point to hurt one of our candidates. It's stupid, petty, ugly, unproductive, and indicative of a deep-seated anger based on hate.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. I didn't say you did
I had you pegged for a Alan Keyes type.

I used Edwards as an example of a candidate who didn't release his tax returns. Of course, nobody here said boo about it.

Now it's just a fake, made up talking point to hurt one of our candidates. It's stupid, petty, ugly, unproductive, and indicative of a deep-seated anger based on hate.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Why can't we see the tax returns?
Why do we have to wait till after we no longer have a choice of candidates?

Riddle me that.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Usually thats a sign of someone with something to hide.
Far be it for me to impugn such a thing of Queen Hillary, though. I am merely a lowly serf.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. The overwhelming majority of people don't release
their tax returns to the public. Are they all hiding something?

She's released financial disclosure statements, as required. If she's the nominee, you'll see her tax returns.

To presume something's being hidden is just stupid. I could accuse you of the same thing.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Meaning you sidestepped the point again. What's Hillary hiding?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
33. When did you stop looking at child porn?
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Isn't that mean spirited, childish, ugly (you know the drill)
Seriously chunko monkey spunk, why do you make this so easy?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. Surely
even YOU'RE smart enough to recognize that that was an example of how one can embed an unfair accusation in a question.

Just like "What is she hiding?"
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. But..what IS Hillary hiding?
As Frenchie Cat just schooled you, it's not legally required but a long standing courtesy to voters to release tax return information in a campaign. So the question remains...er, I mean the mean, ugly, petty, childish and unproductive question remains....

What is Queen Hillary hiding?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #47
64. FrenchieCat has problems with the truth
It's a long standing courtesy to voters FOR THE NOMINEE to release tax information.

Not people running for the nomination.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #22
50. The overwhelming majority of people?? lol
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #50
63. Did you bother to read the whole post?
The point was the overwhelming majority of people don't release their tax returns, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE ALL HIDING SOMETHING.

God, people here are getting dumber every fucking day.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. For the same reason
you didn't see Edwards', or Biden's or anyone elses.

You'll get to see them if she secures the nomination. There's nothing requiring her to show them to you. You're nobody, if you really stop and think about it.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I don't want to wait till she has secured the nomination to see her returns......
The voters are nobody is what you are saying.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. No dear,
I'm saying YOU'RE nobody, and your demands are silly.

It's never been the law, or even the tradition, for candidates for the nomination to release their tax returns.

She has released financial disclosure statements that cover much of what you pretend you want to see.

But you don't really want to see them. You just want to use this fake, made-up issue to hurt one of our candidates. Have I said how mean, petty, ugly, childish and unproductive that is?
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. "You're nobody"? How - regal! How Hillary!
And how mean spirited, ugly, childish, and all the other worn out adjectives you aim at FrenchieCat on a regular basis.

Now, don't you feel dumb?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:00 AM
Original message
Not at all
Her tacts are mean, petty, ugly, childish and unproductive. As are yours.

Devoting all this energy to destroying a Democrat is just asinine.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
39. Calling a voter a "nobody" is "Democratic"?
MMmmm, no, not where I come from. I'm not sure where you learned such crap, but I'll school you right now: it's not Democratic.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #39
65. It's got nothng to do with Democratic
You're acting like an ass.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. You can call me a nobody, if it makes you feel better about yourself......
"When you run for president, you really have to open yourself up to the American people," said Mary Boyle, a spokeswoman for Common Cause, a government watchdog group. "If you're asking voters of this country to elect you as president, it's reasonable and rational that your tax returns are made public."

Tax Release Common Post-Watergate
The release of candidates' tax forms has become common practice in presidential campaigns since the Watergate era of the early '70s.

Since 1984, only one major-party presidential candidate -- Bill Clinton in 1992 -- has refused to release the tax forms he sent to the Internal Revenue Service.
http://takeback-themedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/08-candidates-keeping-income-tax-info.html

Flunking the Sunshine Primary
Presidential contenders should release their tax returns.
Tuesday, June 19, 2007;

IT'S NOT LEGALLY required, but it has become customary for presidential candidates to release their income tax returns in addition to the mandated financial disclosure forms. Unfortunately, this tradition of openness is at risk.

Among the candidates, only Democratic Sens. Barack Obama (Ill.) and Christopher J. Dodd (Conn.) have released their returns -- and most of the others haven't committed to follow suit. North Carolina Democrat John Edwards is avoiding the issue, saying he has gotten an extension on filing his taxes so there's nothing yet to disclose. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) said through a spokesman that, "like past presidential candidates," she will "release tax information in the election year." Better late than never, but, according to WSJ.com, at this point in the last campaign, Howard Dean, Joseph I. Lieberman and Mr. Edwards had released at least some information about their taxes; John F. Kerry released his tax returns in December.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/18/AR2007061801452.html

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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. It's the true nobodies who like the "you're a nobody" talk. All projection.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #36
52. The other point on the tax returns and why they are important now
is that it creates a new ehtical situation as Bill Clinton advised when you loan money to yourself. There was a good reason before now there is an imperative.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You've got an anger problem.
Maybe you can get some advice from your "professional blogger" friends on how to deal with it.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. You've just got a problem.
I don't need to get into the specifics.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. At least I don't hang out with "professional bloggers."
Like you do.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I think that you might....since you know so much about them.......
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 04:07 AM by FrenchieCat


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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Why don't you just post another Clinton campaign video?
that would teach everyone a lesson!
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I've never posted a Clinton campaign video.
Don't know what you're talking about, but what's new.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. Why should Mrs Clinton have to do any different than Kerry?
We Obama people condemn the Clintons for seeming to have their own set of rules. Now you are setting up your own rules for Hillary. That doesn't even fly with me, a Obama supporter.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
45. Are you running too? Then I want to see your tax return. If you want my vote, that is.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. Yeah I don't need no stinking tax records
I just want to wait until after she gets the nomination and let the Republicans tear them apart.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Its like playing 99 bottles of beer on the wall with them
except it looks like we might need more beer!
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. Damning list of reasons not to back Hillary.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Hmmm...where have I seen this exact post before?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. You are getting paid to blog then, hey?
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 04:05 AM by FrenchieCat
How Much?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. The truth's out there, and not hard to find.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. You're not really so stupid
as to think anybody on DU can give you an official answer, are you?

You should contact the Clinton campaign if you're really interested.

But I don't think you are - I think you just want to use this fake, made-up issue to hurt one of our candidats.

Are you aware that's a mean, ugly, petty, childish and unproductive thing to do?
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. that's a mean, ugly, petty, childish and unproductive thing to do
Mirror, meet chunky monkey spunk.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. That's not fair, she hates John Edwards too.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #29
48. I don't hate anyone.......
Don't make shit up.

Can't help it if the truth hurts.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
70. Consult the professional bloggers, they will know.
Some people are "in touch" with them.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
20. Hillary should drop out next Wednesday!!
And apologize to the entire Democratic party for ever thinking she would be the nominee!

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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. We should be so lucky....
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treyDC Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. Maybe if she lived in reality
she would.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
24. The Peter Paul case goes to trial next week I believe
what a list, what a mess, NEVER AGAIN in the WH
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Oh and the effort on DU to hush it up will be HERCULEAN...
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
59. I have 3 posts a day for it
wouldn't want to miss it!!!!
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. Yes, the Freepers
have been very excited about it.

Of course, it's all lies.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/95999


Only right-wing idiots and their tools use that case as a weapon.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #41
56. Is that supposed to answer for the list that I posted........
or simply one of the 15 listed? :shrug:
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Blue State Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #41
62. Which is why we must vet these things now...
Not after Mc Bush knocks her teeth out with it.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
34. How many times will this be posted?
How about we compare and contrast some issues?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
53. Yeah ethics isn't an issue I don't need no stinking ethics
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #53
67. There is no ethical issue
here.

None at all. She has said she'll release her returns if she's the nominee, which is how it's always been done.

Frenchie has invented brand new requirement that candidates for the nomination now have to release there returns, but that's never been the case.

Clinton releases financial disclosure forms in her role as Senator. Nothing untoward was found in them.

And you know what would be hysterical? If they filed separately. :rofl:
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
68. Yawn..........
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
54. Please, at least she's not analyzing Pat Boone again.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #34
55. First time I've seen it.
So where is you comparing and contrasting?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
44. another reason
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #44
57. Damn, that's scary......
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 04:30 AM by FrenchieCat
and I only watched like 10 seconds of that! :scared:
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #44
58. Oh . My. GOD....ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That HAS to be a joke.
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
60. Hsu donated to Obama's Senate campaign...no one knew Hsu was a crook...
...Rezko's tenants (mostly poor blacks) were freezing for several months one Chicago winter (and it was publicized). Rezko didn't have enough money to provide heat, but he could find $1000 to give to Obama's latest campaign. The City of Chicago settled for $100.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
61. Mehmet Celebi is a big one you missed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2856579

Lukery has done an excellent job of drawing elements together
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
66. by definition she's not unsupportable
due to the amount of support she has, including from a good number of progressives.

This is not quibbling about words, it's my #1 problem with most of the argument against Hillary. It's not that YOU personally prefer Obama, it's that it's IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to support Hillary, it's that if you support Hillary then you are a CORPORATIST or that you want Iraqi kids to DIE.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
69. On behalf of the RNC, I'd like to thank you for posting this. And you did it for free!
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 04:43 PM by Perry Logan
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