Hillary is the REAL uniter.

[mckeown1128]

I just finished a weakened of visiting with my republican inlaws. Of course the subject of politics came up. They didn't know that I was a democrat. Tsk..tsk's were floated about... Until I told them I supported Obama. Than they were ok with it. It turns out they kinda like Obama. They said they wouldn't be opposed to Obama being president. I told them how I can't stand Hillary's phoniness (IWR was a big topic) and they whole heartedly agreed. We talked about how she was trying to seat the FL and MI delegates in an effort to overturn the process. How she was counting on super-delegates to overturn the pledged delegates. We also talked about how much we didn't like McCain (They were Guiliani supporters) We had a GREAT conversation. Only Hillary could unite my inlaws and me.

[bigtree]

1. . . . united in your mutual ridicule and cynicism

How quaint.

[mckeown1128]

2. In how we can see that Hillary is not running an honest campaign. nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

16. an "honest campaign"

like running on a platform of anti-war when he has done nothing to stop it?
Like running the dirtest campaign ever (shouting racism from the rooftops) and pretending he is not?Like sending fliers using right-wing talking points about healthcare and lying about his own?

[mckeown1128]

21. I am so tired of he BS talking points...

Him voting for the funding does not mean he hasn't been fighting it. He put his political career on the line to spoke out against the war while your candidate helped make the case for the war. The blood of the dead is on her hands... not Obama's.

Please give me a link to Obama "shouting racism from the rooftops.

Show me a flier that uses right wing talkin points about healthcare.


What lie has he told about his own healthcare?

Just because you can spout bulls%#t about Obama doesn't mean that any of it is true. You are just another of the Hillary sheeple. Most of the educated democrats in the party can see through her manipulating campaign tactics. Why don't you pay closer attention instead of just parroting talking points.

[Evergreen Emerald]

29. you choose to be blind to the truth.

Obama when he had the power to do something in the senate DID NOTHING. His hands are just as bloodied. No speeches, no protests, no amendments, no bills. NOTHING. Timid, politically motivated. NOTHING. And, when Iran appears, he says the SAME THING Clinton does about Iran, but misteriously is unavailable for the vote. NOTHING. HE DID NOTHING.

And then, has the nerve to run on the platform of doing something because of a speech in 2002 when IT DID NOT COUNT. And, when it did count HE DID NOTHING.

Racism: WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN? His campaign is the dirtest ever. They solidified the black SC voting block by calling Bill and Hillary racist with the help of a couple of "independent" surrogotes and of course the media.

HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THE FLIERS lying about her health care? He is using right-wing talking points to ensure that WE WILL never get universal health care. Where have you been?

Pretending to be dumb on these issues will not get him through a general.

[mckeown1128]

35. More spin...

He didn't vote for the Iran vote because Harry Reid told him the wrong time to vote. Harry Reid admitted this. But don't let those pesky facts get in the way.


I have seen the fliers and he is NOT lying about her healthcare plan. Stop using GOP talking points by saying the media is in some plot against your candidate. The people who created teh racial problems where Bill and Hillary. They wanted people to attack them for being racist(since they are obviously NOT racist) It was an attempt to paint Obama as the black candidate. Luckily it didn't work. As the exit polls have shown people think Hillary was on the wrong side of that issue.

[dkf]

4. Since when are Obama voters the cynical ones?

I thought we were all into fairy tales?

[babylonsister]

3. I'm seeing this message often; many people just don't like Clinton, for

whatever reason. I'm glad your had a great talk; maybe I should revisit the rethugs in my life I have shunned and see what their current take is, though I'm less hopeful they will vote for any Dem.

[Windy]

7. My brother in law....and my sister in law, two prior republican voters are supporting obama

They like his message of trying to unite the country. They also became antiwar after it was learned that there was no reason to invade iraq. They regretted their vote for bush in 2000 and 2004.

They have each donated to Obama's campaign.

the other members of my husbands family who still remain die hard repugs are praying for either a Hillary upset in Ohio and Texas or even better, that she steals the election. If that happens, they are confident that there will be four more years of republican rule in this country. I think they're right! If the superdelegates take the decision away from the pledged delegates, many will sit out the election in November.

[babylonsister]

11. Impressive! That's many people's fear, that Clinton will lose this for us. nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. Mi padre es un conservativo maximo

Recently, I had a similar conversation with him. (Attila was a raving, flaming liberal for him) He prefers, and will vote for Obama, (McCain is just 2 yrs younger, and in my dad's words, "I'm in pretty good shape, and way, way too old to do anything close to what that job requires.")
He actually supported edwards first, but will vote Obama.

Conservative friends of his (99.99% of the people not his son) have an active hatred, mistrust, dislike of her and will actively work against Hillary. And the same people honestly consider Obama as a real choice, after 8 yrs of Bushism.

Last night, my bro in law, even more conservative than mi padre, actually called and started talking politics. (He was/is a political appointee in the state, always for conservative GOP govs.) If Hillary is the nominee, he votes McCain. If Obama is, he is voting for the home state boy.

[babylonsister]

12. The calls to CSPAN after the dinner last night were telling; all 4 callers

would vote for Obama, and two of them were rethugs. No one can convince me this is a bad thing or divisive to our party. I say, the more the merrier. The thinking rethugs have been just as negatively affected by the past two terms as we have, and are aware that a change is necessary.

[Lex Talionis]

19. "If Hillary is the nominee, he votes McCain. If Obama is, he is voting for the home state boy. "

It can't get any clearer than that. Times, they are ah changin'.

[dailykoff]

5. Thanks, that's a pretty interesting dynamic.

I wonder if the longer Hilly stays in, the more people get to like Obama? That works!

[rosetta627]

6. UR right

I've yet to find one person who can stomach her.
She is a horrible horrible person, and transparently phony.

[Guava Jelly]

10. I wouldn't call her "horrible"

She was a good Sen and first lady.(who cast a few really stupid votes)
I would never vote for her in a primary but if she gets the nod I will.

[rosetta627]

14. I guess I hold a grudge

For that niggling little 'attack Iraq and kill lotso people' episode.

I put her on the A list of horrible for that alone.

[Guava Jelly]

17. I have been angry at her over that for years

I have been angry at all the Sen who took the easy way out instead of standing and showing courage.

[rosetta627]

33. Me too

Some things are unforgivable.
This is one.

[mckeown1128]

22. Many democrats won't....

especially if she steals the election by overturning the voters with superdelegates... or seating MI and FL delegates(states where no one was able to campaign.

[Laurab]

32. I'd be one of them. And, it's unfortunate.

I would not be able to cast a vote for her if she did attempt to steal the nomination. It smacks of bushco politics, and I think at that point, I would just give up on the system. I'd do the same if Obama tried to steal the nomination, but I don't think that would ever happen. A moral compass is one thing that's absolutely necessary in the person I vote for. If Hillary does what she's rumored to be planning on, it will be proof enough she doesn't have one. She'll lose anyway, and my state is blue, so my vote wouldn't matter much, but I think a LOT of people would sit it out.

Also, I only have one close repuke friend, and I believe she'll sit home if Obama is the nominee - she doesn't like McCain, and kind of likes Obama. She HATES Hillary and will NOT sit home if Hillary is the nominee.

[cloudythescribbler]

8. Personally, I STRONGLY support Obama, but a LOT of the anti-Hillary sentiment is unfair ...

However, in raw electoral politics, if someone is unpopular, even if unfairly so, you don't nominate them to MAKE SURE that we don't then get someone who, however honorable, aims to keep us in Iraq till the cows come home, which, on top of everything else in the war, costs trillions.

It's interesting because being "realistic" is a signature principle of the Clintons.

[Deja Q]

24. I well concur with that.

As with all things, some criticism is deserved; others are not.

[Thrill]

13. Yes she will unite the Republican base

[mtnsnake]

15. I'm not surprised that your Republican inlaws like Obama at all.

Reaching out to Republicans is what he does.

[mckeown1128]

23. Exactly...

which is why he will win in the GE.

[mtnsnake]

30. So reaching out to Repukes in a Dem primary means he'll win the GE. Yeah, that'll work! (snicker)

[mikekohr]

18. Why We Lost 7 of the last 10 Presidential Elections

In nearly every contested caucus and primary Senator Clinton out polls Senator Obama among Democratic party regulars. Senator Obama's strength is among first-time voters, independents and cross-over Republicans. The Republican base will fall in line (as they are now behind Senator McCain). Our party regulars will get behind our nominee, regardless of whether that person is Senator Clinton or Senator Obama.

It will be the swath of the demographic that is Senator Obama's strength that will decide who wins the White House. This same demographic shows affinity for Senator McCain, as it has shown in the past for Ross Perot, and Ronald Reagan. It's support put RapMaster Ronnie over the top in 1980 and 1984 and it's support for Perot in 1992 and 1996 allowed Bill Clinton to slide past his Republican competition.

I live in a county that has been dominated by the Republican Party since 1832. Senator Obama is attracting support among people here, and across the nation, that have never shown desire to support any Democrat.

We will make big gains in the Senate and in the House this fall. But like it or not, to win the White House, and to lift the entire ticket even higher will require the ability to attract support among independents, moderates, and to be able to peel away that thin sliver of reasonable Republicans. Senator Obama has demonstrated that ability. Senator Clinton, not so much.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

20. there is so much I agree with in your post. To those hillarians, before you

attack mikekohr, as you so often seem loathe to do, consider the following

have you taken a gander at the VOTE TOTALS in the primaries, or the estimates of crowds in the Caucus states?

2-1 are going Democrat when given the choice in open states. It is only slightly less in closed primaries.

That indicates two things: People, given the choice to move to a party, pick Democrats, and more often than not, Obama; and, people who are not given a choice may stay home rather than vote for a republican.

Polls and anecdotal stories from every state indicate that self-described GOPS have never been fewer in number. Polls also indicate that energy, a change in direction, and a divorce from our current self-destructive course is extremely popular.

Obama represents that mood and those goals in a nutshell. Hillary represents the old, tired, worn-out, DLC-based, triangulatory strangulation, and the clintonesque approach to spin and dissembling that really pisses people off.

take a look at the trend lines. just 4 months ago, she led in every state, by no less than 25%. Today, she has lost 2/3s of the states where voting has taken place, (ignoring MI and FLA for obvious reasons) and she is now behind Obama in the majority of national polls. And when you place Obama v. McCain in comparison to Hillary v. McCain, Obama beats him by 9-10%, while SHE LOSES IN EVERY POLL.

[WillyT]

26. Precisely !!!

Great analysis!

:yourock:

[GoldieAZ49]

27. agreed, it could be a landslide victory in November

which is EXACTLY what this country needs and wants.

We can only loose it by infighting over FL, MI and Super Delegates...that would be tragic.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

25. Yep, that's my family nt

[CatnHat]

28. Responding to original post,

So, means nothing. I know republicans and independents(some of them relatives and friends) who utterly despise Obama. We also talk alot about politics, and the consensus is that these republican and independent friends and relatives want Clinton on the ticket; it's simple really, their party is having problems of their own with their own candidate, McCain, who is not conservative enough for them, and McCain is having a hard time convincing these conservatives that he's conservative enough. They would "never" vote for Obama, he's so far left of their conservative policies, they would never vote for him. They utterly believe with Obama on the ticket, McCain will win the GE; is why they are hoping for that outcome. A Obama ticket means a win for the republicans. Seems they are "hoping" for a Obama ticket so McCain can breeze into the WH. Even with Obama pandering to the republican's, do you actually think for a minute Obama will get republican's to vote for him? That's really reaching. That's why the republicans voters and pundits (Limbaugh, etc.) are pissing their pants, they are "selling" Obama to the republicans, to ensure a win for McCain. If you think for one minute, everyone loves Obama, better think again. Gawd, half the democrats who vote, are voting against him. Imagine that.

[Caro]

31. All we need is a bunch of Republicans ...

... pulling the Democratic leadership even FURTHER to the right.

Good thinking.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

[TexasObserver]

34. Yes, she does have that effect on most of the population.

She earned it, too.

[Carolina]

36. K&R, check "the angry white man" op-ed

"... the Angry White Man loathes Hillary Clinton. Her voice reminds him of a shovel scraping a rock. He recoils at the mere sight of her on television. Her very image disgusts him, and he cannot fathom why anyone would want her as their leader. It’s not that she is a woman. It’s that she is who she is...

There are many millions of Angry White Men. Four million Angry White Men are members of the National Rifle Association, and all of them will vote against Hillary Clinton, just as the great majority of them voted for George Bush.

He hopes that she will be the Democratic nominee for president in 2008, and he will make sure that she gets beaten like a drum.

http://www.aspentimes.com/article/2008198091324