Hillary supporters: Anyone else notice the degrading swipes Obama takes at Hillary's intelligence?

[mtnsnake]

A friend of Mrs mtnsnake and myself pointed this out to us when we got together with her and her husband for breakfast this morning. She said that Obama has a habit of taking subtle little swipes at Hillary's intelligence like this: "Senator Clinton says she does this and that and blah blah blah....but what she fails to understand is..."

Our friend went on to say, that as a woman, she has never felt so insulted in all her life by a Democratic politician as by how Obama is using this condescending phrase, what she fails to understand, among others, over and over against Hillary but she never heard him once use it against any of the men during the Democratic primaries...AND...when he uses this phrase, it's not even relevant...he just likes saying it. She said that ever since Obama got the lead, he has become one of the most arrogant and pompous politicians she can ever remember in a Democratic Primary.

And then people wonder why Hillary goes on the counter attack....

[flor de jasmim]

1. Overly sensitive, perhaps?

"what X fails to understand...", "what X fails to take into account...", "where X's analyses lack substance..." - these are all standard tactics in debating.

[Auntie Bush]

68. (((((OVERLY SENSITIVE))))))

Pot calling kettle black!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama and most of his supporters are the most OVERLY SENSITIVE bunch I have ever seen! EVERY single time ANYTHING negative is ever said about Obama it's blown all out of proportion...their own bias spin is added and they get their panties and their brains in a huge tangled WAD. All their objectivity is blinded by their irrational outrage. Makes no sense! How an Obama supporter can say Hillary supporters are too sensitive is beyond me and is an absolutely ludicrous statement. I think Hillary and Hillary supporters are very used to criticism and are far from being overly sensitive! Get real!

[mtnsnake]

74. Isn't it amazing, Aunti Bush?

Obama and most of his supporters are the most OVERLY SENSITIVE bunch I have ever seen! EVERY single time ANYTHING negative is ever said about Obama it's blown all out of proportion

Ain't that the effin truth. They just can't deal with the sad truth ever. Instead they storm in like a band of babies...all whining, distorting, and stomping their feet. lol

[Auntie Bush]

78. I can just picture that and it makes me laugh

:ROFL: even though it's a disgusting scene. Oh my poor eyes!

[robbedvoter]

72. Us womin - "periodically are down" and overly sensitive...All that penis envy

that is consuming us, you know...:eyes:

[Avalux]

2. She does fail to understand. Just as she did in her IWR vote.

You are trying to turn Obama's calling out Hillary on her errors in judgement into a sexist attack. Weak.

[mtnsnake]

3. Not trying to turn anything....It IS sexist. Wake up. n/t

[tekisui]

4. Has Hillary ever said "What Barack fails to understand" or something similar?

Probably so.

[mtnsnake]

7. Not that I'm aware of, but hopefully she'll give him back a taste of his own medicine

...and then some.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. "It's naive to think that talking..."

THAT isn't a slap at his intelligence?

[Kahuna]

37. When she says, "let's get real here...," she's calling him stupid. nt

[rodeodance]

55. People are beginning to pick up on his wide range PROMISES that are just too much.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

71. its more like - hes too good of a speaker, hes not black enough

my husband was the first black president, blah blah blah.

[Avalux]

8. LOL - it is not in any way sexist to say "fail to understand".

The point is - Hillary miscalculates at every turn. She voted for the IWR out of trust (mistake); she thought she'd have the nomination sewn up by Feb 5th (mistake). She hired an inept campaign manager and blew through 130 million in one month (mistake). How can one not wonder how these failures to understand would translate into a Hillary Clinton presidency?

[lligrd]

9. What Is Sexist About It, Using "She"?

Are you suggesting that it is sexist to ever question a woman's intelligence? I think maybe you are the sexist one.

[mtnsnake]

12. It's in the context of it. I didn't expect any Obamaites to understand that. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

It is respectful to always refer to people by name. To use 'he' or 'she' is considered rude.I was

taught NEVER to refer to my parents or elders as 'he's or 'she's.

Manners.

[lligrd]

32. So Now "He" Is Rude

At least, you are not calling "him" sexist.

[Captain Hilts]

35. Yes, "he/she" is considered rude. Use only as a 2nd reference in a sentence.

I spoke to Senator Obama and HE said...

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

75. he should have said "the Clinton Machine", or "IT"?

maybe we can't use the word "she" any more.

Its crazy, isn't it?

[totodeinhere]

14. Just as many men as women have errors in judgment.

If Obama can't even criticize Clinton for her errors in judgment then what can he say? No way is that sexist. We have got to get over this idea that any criticism of Clinton no matter how well founded is sexist. This is a political campaign and having each side criticize the other is a part of that campaign. But criticizing Clinton is no more sexist than criticizing Obama is racist.

[stahbrett]

17. Wait, even if it's true that Obama is "questioning her intelligence", how is it sexist?

First, I don't think that Obama IS questioning Clinton's intelligence by using phrases that are mentioned in the OP.

BUT... let's assume for a moment that is true. Why is that sexist? Suppose Obama really thinks that Clinton isn't really that smart, or at least isn't smart enough to understand certain points? Unless the argument is that Obama only thinks that she isn't very smart BECAUSE she is a woman, it's not sexist.

[mtnsnake]

18. I'm going on the word of a woman who told me that "as a woman" she is insulted

by the context in which he uses this phrase, and how in the past she never noticed Obama using it against any of the men. That's how.

[stahbrett]

19. Understood, but...

Playing a little devil's advocate still, but even if your friend is correct, I still don't see it as sexist automatically. It's very possible for someone to think that one person out of a small group of people is not intelligent (or not as intelligent) without it having anything to do with that person's gender. Here's an example - let's say that you are in a group of 10 people, and they are all women except for George W. Bush. After talking to them all for awhile, you come away with the impression that GWB is not very intelligent, while you don't have the same impression with the others in the group, and have your opinion not have anything to do with GWB's gender.

[mtnsnake]

21. I probably shouldn't have said in another post "it IS sexist", until I hear it for myself

However, I will say that the way she described it, that it does sound sexist to me in the context that she was talking about. I hold this lady's opinion in high regard, otherwise I wouldn't have posted this.

Thanks for your post, though. You are one of the few open-minded Obama supporters on this forum.

[stahbrett]

27. I honestly don't recall the specific statements brought up by your friend

But my wife is a Hillary supporter, and she seems to be "in tune" to picking up on those types of things, and so far has not mentioned it to me.

But here is the important thing - both campaigns need to walk around on eggshells to avoid even the hint of being sexist or racist. McCain's campaign will need to do the same against whichever one wins the Democratic nomination.

I don't think that the that Clinton (either of them) is racist, and I don't think Obama is sexist.

Both candidates vote alike 95% of the time, both candidates have many similarites in their campaign positions, so the decision is coming down to personality, likability, belief in which one is going to be able to actually get things implemented, etc.

Thanks for the compliment on my post - I try (and may fail on occasion) to avoid being trollish in my posts. I'll make little digs here or there, but hopefully they come across as attempts at humor and not as huge insults to Clinton or her supporters.

[mtnsnake]

53. Good post

I could listen to you all day and always come out better for doing so.

[lligrd]

20. A Woman? One Woman Found It Insulting?

And that makes it sexist. So if I find your "Obamaite", to be insulting, by your own logic, that must make it racist.

[mtnsnake]

24. You are the epitome of everything that the Obama supporter in post #19 is NOT....

Contrary to that poster, you are quick to become completely unreasonable, narrow minded, and willing to turn the tables in a lame effort to make a feeble point that has nothing to do with the subject.

[lligrd]

30. Ignoring Your Judgmental And Juvenile Personal Attack

How in the world can you claim my point has nothing to do with the subject? You made a point, I merely suggested that your logic was flawed. Attacking me personally won't change that fact.

[mtnsnake]

36. You're the only one who tried to make this about racism, not me, so all I have to say is

awwwwwwww, ignore me until the sun don't shine :smoke:

[lligrd]

44. I'm Not Ignoring You, Just Your Personal Attacks

And my remark about your comment being racist was quite obviously a sarcastic way of showing you your failed logic.

[mtnsnake]

50. What you perceive as personal attacks is nothing of the sort. It's reality

When someone like you tries to inject racism into a subject like this....then as you sow, so shall you reap.

[lligrd]

57. Wow, Now You're Using Biblical References

to condemn me? Very progressive of you. I think we should just agree to disagree on just about everything.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

73. give Hillary a kleenex, to wipe the tears n/t

[tekisui]

5. How about "Talk is cheap" "He's not ready on day one" "Fairy Tale"

I could go on.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. got a specific there?

seems kind of a vague argument.

[mtnsnake]

10. No. It's her word. She said the latest she heard him saying it was on the news early this morning.

She told us he says it often, as of late.

I guess we'll have to just look for it, eh.

[Alamom]

11. If he hadn't, the Media has done it for him and in giant jabs...CNN discussing it now.

Giving Obama a Free Ride and hurting Hillary's campaign.





Also mentioned, the free ride will go to the republican candidiate in a few months & the Dem will be fighting for their life with the media.

[rodeodance]

56. glad to cnn waking up

[HeraldSquare212]

13. Huh?

[mtnsnake]

15. There...

that's the epitome of an Obamaite...."Huh?"

[lligrd]

22. And "There" Is The Epitome Of A Hillaryite, I Surmise nt

[Thepricebreaker]

23. I guess thats a problem because she is a woman right? Give me a break.

[scheming daemons]

25. Who knew that when I was questioning Bush's intelligence these 7 years....

....I was being a sexist.

:eyes:


Calling someone dumb, or less than intelligent, is not sexist. I think mtnsnake is "less than intelligent", and it has nothing to do with him being a man.

[Straight Shooter]

26. That's a typical bush remark, paraphrased, "What you've got to understand is ..." and variations.

It isn't sexist, it's patronizing.

Some obama supporters do it on this board, "Well, if you had enough intelligence to support obama," or, "the Neanderthals who don't realize," or, "if you were educated you would understand," blah blah blah.

When obama speaks, consider the source (Axelrod and Gibbs), and move on. Remember high school? There you have it.

[mtnsnake]

28. "What SHE fails to understand" is even worse

when put in the context my friend put it in.

How's it going, SS

[Straight Shooter]

40. Well, that is a swipe, I agree.

He takes the high road on rhetorical oratory and the low road with one-on-one interactions. It's as if he thinks his "subtle" insults fly over everyone's heads. Typical tactic of those who consider themselves to be superior to all others, the backhanded swipe. I look at obama and how he operates, I see high school dynamics at play.

It's going okay, thanks. Too much work to do, but we have beautiful blue skies, gleaming snow, and beckoning fresh air, here in the mountains on a Sunday morning.

How is your life today? :hi:

[mtnsnake]

58. "gleaming snow, and beckoning fresh air, here in the mountains"

I'm sure you're enjoying the beautiful views and being part of it all, SS. Speaking of that, Mrs mtnsnake and I snowshoed a mountain yesterday afternoon near Lake Placid. Maybe I'll post some pics tonight in the Lounge if I get time.

:hi:

[Straight Shooter]

59. PM the link to me, 'kay?

So I can check it out tomorrow.

I'll be watching the old movie "Ran" tonight, the classic retelling of King Lear by Kurosawa. :)

[mtnsnake]

60. Will do

If I forget, remind me :)

[Captain Hilts]

38. BINGO. It's not sexist. It's patronizing. GWB does it ALL the time. He knows "stuff" we don't.

And what he doesn't know, he makes up.

[KittyWampus]

54. but upthread you declared it WAS sexist. Get your story straight. At this point, you have to realize

how stupid this thread is.

[From The Left]

29. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Paleo feminism is so 1970's.

[NJmaverick]

31. WOW! No one is allowed to say anything bad about Hillary

Just like Rove wanted no one to say anything bad about George Bush. When does Hillary cut to the chase and hire Rove outright?

[Thepricebreaker]

34. Shhhh people might yell at you because that makes sense.

:toast:

[Kahuna]

33. Fail to understand is just a nice way of saying, SHE LYING HER BUTT OFF!!!

Geez. You've got to learn pol-speak.

[GarbagemanLB]

39. Hillbots: "Criticizing Hillary means you are sexist!"

Jesus...some of you people are pathetic.

[mkultra]

41. i only notice the ones she takes out teh voters inteligence

[chyjo]

42. He is like so sexist

I heard he wants to repeal the nineteenth amendment,often referring to Universal Suffrage as a mistake in his stump speeches. He also is going to use his Cult-leader Necromancer powers to resurrect Ike Turner to be his running mate. I'm not sure if any of this is true, but it sounded believable when I heard it.

groooooooaaaaaaaaaannnnnn

[ProSense]

43. "What she fails to understand" is that

her spin about Obama lacking substance is partly responsible for this. Most people aren't buying the spin, no matter how often she repeats it.

[mtnsnake]

47. Cant you just say whats on your mind instead of linking me to your threads which have links to more

of your threads, some of them with 6 or 7 links to even MORE of your threads?

Or is it just easier for you to paste your repetitive spin in posts such as this?

BTW, how's that 3-thread a day limit working out for you? (snicker)

[Honeycombe8]

45. You mean swipes by the "articulate kid," as the Clintons called him? hahahahha n/t

[dailykoff]

46. This sounds like a pitch for Folger's coffee.

Ad title: "People are whispering." Slogan: "Changing perceptions one internet post at a time." Success rate: pretty low because the Army dropped the technique some years ago.

[JVS]

48. On some issues, such as the war, saying that she fails to understand is framing it kindly to her

failing to understand is a much nicer accusation than "she has acted as a cynical opportunist"

[GarbagemanLB]

49. Agreed.

[smoogatz]

51. Calling bullshit, mtnsnake.

Failure to understand is not a gender-specific condition. If he'd said that Hillary failed to understand because she was having hot flashes, THAT would have been sexist. As far as I know, he hasn't said that. As for his alleged arrogance: in my view, this is a borderline racist assertion. The subtext is that the tall, educated black man doesn't show Senator Clinton the deference due a white woman of her station simply by disagreeing with her. Not a pretty picture, viewed from a certain angle.

[mtnsnake]

61. oh geez

[smoogatz]

67. Seriously.

The notion that Obama is somehow arrogant for disagreeing with Hillary strikes me as borderline racist. The "arrogance" critique says a lot more about the person who applies it, in my view, than it says about Obama. He's a smart, confident black man: for some people that combination equals "arrogant." There's a name for those people, and it ain't "progressives."

[mtnsnake]

77. Save your watered-down cerebral logic for the junior high pep rally

where someone might actually believe that you are for real.

You've just come up with one of the lamest turn-the-tables attempts I've ever seen, to accuse someone of being borderline racist for being concerned about a remark that could possibly be sexist, depending on the context it is being said in. My friend doesn't have a racist bone in her body, and neither do I, and I don't appreciate you making your blind judgements about either one us who you don't know for squat. Some of you Obama apologists are simply unreal at you how you never fail to throw out the race card whenever it suits your ulterior purposes of shooting the messenger.

[rodeodance]

52. Hey--I was talking to a friend in Green Bay WI this am (fence sitter)--she said basically

the same thing. She wanted Edwards from the beginning.


Arrogance is the word she used.

[MethuenProgressive]

62. Obama's a snob.

That much is clear.

[UALRBSofL]

63. I don't wonder why Hillary goes on the counter attack

Because I've listened to Obama enough to know he plays partisan politics very well. Also, just look at his voting record, it isn't what I would call a progressive liberal.

[mckeown1128]

64. Jesus christ...you are really grasping at straws...

I have read one to many pieces of garbage from you but this one takes the cake...you are going on my ignore list now.

[NJSecularist]

65. The bottom line is that some of you will stop at nothing to be offended

And there is nothing Obama can do about it. Through your inferority complexes, everything Obama does is sexist. Any time he says something towards Hillary, he is sexist.

Just admit it and then we can move on.

[Vinca]

66. I think Obama should stand mute. Will that make the Hillary supporters happy?

By no means should he display any knowledge or facts because it might hurt the sensibilities of the Hillary supporters. You don't give your candidate much credit, do you? If she can't stand up to Obama, why should we think she can be a viable leader?

[Whisp]

69. I think they should both do pantomime

that would solve it all.

[LordJFT]

70. um, who called who naive?

[avrdream]

76. He is definitely arrogant but I think that is a lawyer-speak phrase.

I sure have heard it a lot in politics over the years.