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Why has Obama continued to fund the Iraq War? Why did he duck the Iran vote?

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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:49 AM
Original message
Why has Obama continued to fund the Iraq War? Why did he duck the Iran vote?
Why has he not spoken out on the floor of the Senate about ending the war?

I am very wary of Obama, because I have no idea what he'd really do. I am not moved by his speeches - though I thought last Tuesday's was his best (after the Potomac Primary), because midway, he pivoted from his preaching platitudes, and picked up John Edwards' populist themes and personal accounts of people's problems that need to be solved.

I am so very undecided. And hoping for a brokered convention that will bring us President Gore.

Obama supporters, if you do respond to this, please answer about just Obama. Not what Hillary did. I know her record very well.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. he has spoken against it
and funding regular people that have been railroaded by bush is a move of integrity. put some thought into it.
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bellasgrams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Mkulra-What do you suppose the BO supporters would do
if we started putting insulting or unflattering pictures or tag lines about him. I think I know. We'd be called racist.
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beezlebum Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. sexist racist sexist racist
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 12:41 PM by beezlebum
let's try to avoid the petty arguments and hypocrisy and victimhood and focus on policies, shall we? those arguments get neither candidate anywhere. i could go on and on w/ regards to the nuances of sexism and racism, which are both certainly relevant, but more in terms of dem vs repub.

would proving it to be the case within the party make me feel more supportive of either? nah. sympathetic, perhaps, but not to the point of voting for the more pitiful. this vote goes far beyond those differences. who we elect is going to have a massive impact on the entire world- not just the civil rights in this country, but it could mean life or death on a large scale internationally.

in response to the op, it's hard to respond and not bring clinton(s) into the answer, b/c while i am supporting obama and i do actually kinda sorta like him, i more or less am doing so against clinton and mccain.

that said, i do not completely trust obama. i am not confident that we're going to get out of iraq immediately, nor that we will stay out of iran. but what i do know is that hillary clinton thinks diplomacy is "naive," and that the telecom vote last week was not important enough to make it. and say what you want about experience- if she is going to run on that, surely bill's 8 years is counted somewhere in there; bombings, sanctions, welfare reform- i don't have to go down the list (also why i would have actually had a hard time voting for gore again- the only thing he really had me convinced on was climate change, but he still believes nafta to have been the right choice).

kucinich was my guy. i am not actually a democrat today, i'm more of a lesser-of-the-evils-ocrat. we could go on all day about who missed what vote, who voted present instead of yay or nay, etc etc etc. they both have relatively spotty records (to be fair), but personally, i've had enough of the clintons.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
43. i think you would be called friend by the rest of your ilk
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
46. Like this one?
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 10:13 PM by goldcanyonaz
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. ...another juvenile Obama supporter -- no class /nt
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. another stupid hillary supporter
No brains
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dunno. Why did Hillary vote for the IRW and why has she refused to repudiate that vote?
It goes both ways.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. There are a host of idiots on this board who think defunding is a viable
and desirable way to end a war. It's a potential disaster, it limits flexibility, and can have unintended consequences, in addition to being politically suicidal for the party that demands it. It's a LAST RESORT! Vietnam was already winding down, our troops were already leaving when Dems finally defunded. Jesus, get your heads out of your asses. This is the stupidest, most non-sensical "he did it too!" defense for Hillary's war vote I've ever heard--and she funded it as well. Neither she or Obama are politically retarded.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I am NOT a Hillary supporter. I need answers about Obama. Are you saying it's politics?
I knew this thread could devolved into "Hillary did it too" - and asked specifically that responders not do that.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Look, defunding a conflict IN FULL SWING is like stepping off a cliff--
Only a handful of Senators, the ones who aren't in any danger of losing their seats, can afford to stand on principle, and they take this extreme position to try to force the debate toward ending the war--they don't really believe (or desire) that Congress will shut off the money. It's drastic, it ties the hands of the Defense Dept. and the military (and they do need flexibility), and yes, it's politically stupid. Polls show Americans are very, very hesitant to "go there", as are lots of smart, well-respected people in Congress. There are better ways to draw down the occupation. Obama has been smart by not openly advocating for it, although he did have one defunding vote in May (along with Hillary) that makes me nervous for him in the general election.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. There is no such thing a a vote to fund the war.
There are votes to fund the military. Once the military has that money, they use it to: pay the troops; armor the troops; maintain living quarters for dependents stateside; provide airlift capability to get injured soldiers off the field; provide airlift capability to get soldiers back from the front on leave or rotation; provide offensive airpower; maintain base security in S Korea; maintain base security in Ft Dix; provide for...

Get it? The military funding is not JUST the war, but it INCLUDES the war. You cannot un-fund the war without unfunding the military itself unless a specific bill is put forward for that exact purpose, as at the end of VietNam. No such bill has been put forward, so any vote against funding before now would unfund dependents, travel, security, hospitalization, etc., which are NOT directly affecting the war itself.

'Vote to fund the war' is a dishonest meme.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Impressive post--thanks for that insight.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. i answered yoru question clearly
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. De-funding has long ago been debunked
The money is already in the pipeline for complete, safe and timely troop withdrawal as has been discussed time and again.

The de-funding bit is a right-wing myth.

He and Hillary are both obfuscating on this point because they do not plan to remove the entire crew of US occupation forces out of Iraq or the region.
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Orwellian I agree
Good points you made. :)
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Of course they're not going to pull every last troop out of Iraq. That would be a
brain-dead maneuver. It's going to take time--years--to draw this thing down. We've got oil, we've got the embassy, we've got Iran and Syria to worry about, and terror cells--those are all going to factor in, whether we like it or not. And I have no idea what you're tallking about RE defunding being a "myth". Are you saying the DoD has a complete withdrawal strategy with the funds already in place? Because I somehow doubt it. We're paying for this war with "emergency" supplementals.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes
Look into it.

Of course the DoD has a plan for withdrawal and I forget the exact amount, I could look it up later this eve if you'd like, but it is several billion dollars that is already put aside for troop/equipment withdrawal.

Maxine Waters- Dennis Kucinich and others have spoken to this point on several occasions.

What the supplementals are earmarked for and the funds I speak of are entirely different things.

Again I urge you to disbelieve what I say and look into it.

It would not take years to remove the troops in a safe fashion it would take months. Where did you get that idea?

Iran and Syria are no threat to anyone unless you believe the State Department.

No getting around the simple fact that it's an illegal occupation.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Well, you and I are on totally different wavelengths, then. I don't
believe we could withdraw, logistically speaking (and even if we wanted to) in under a year. I don't put much stock in Kucinich and Waters as defense policy experts, either, so I take them with a grain of salt. If BIDEN said we were all set to completely withdraw and should do it, or Levin, or Dodd, or Webb, or Hagel, then I'd believe it's an option--but those guys (whom I trust) don't recommend it, and in fact have warned against defunding and abrupt withdrawal. And just because BushCo trumps up the threats from Iran and Syria to hysterical proportions in order to start the next war doesn't mean those countries are somehow totally harmless or non-problematic. You and I have very different beliefs on this.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Thank you. People reveal how little they know by pushing that.
Cutting off funding does NOT force the President to end it. And he has the ability to get money and credit indefinitely. The troops will suffer if they cut funding. The murderous sociopaths in charge of this country will have no qualms about leaving those kids there with no food or armor. While blaming the Democrats for it the whole time.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I agree--I seriously wouldn't put it past Chimpster and Dickster to
actually cause our troops to go without, all the while saying "It's the Democrats' fault"! They'd simply hold our troops hostage, and our party would get all the blame.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Because he wanted to wait until he knows which way the wind blows in the GE.
He will change his rhetoric to match the mood of the nation. There will be no paper record of commitment on his part.
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. If BO ducked a vote, it's because NARAL asked him to.
I think that's the talking point.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. the OP is a lie that is discussed here
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. he DID NOTHING when he had the power to do something
one 2002 speech when it meant NOTHING does not a president make. When he had the opportunity to follow through on ANYTHING against the war he stood mum. Silent. Timid. DID NOTHING.


And yet still has the nerve to lie to the American people about his platform.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. and he is runing on a NON-existant 'vote"--He did not have to take a stand-except for FUNDING
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Has Hillary Continued To Fund The War She Voted For?
:eyes:
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Yes. What about his ducking the Iran vote?
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. the difference is that SHE IS NOT RUNNING ON THAT PLATFORM
He is LYING TO YOU.

Good God. People are just not even thinking anymore.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. Remarks of Senator Barack Obama on the Iraq War, 3/21/07
Those who would have us continue this war in perpetuity like to say that this is a matter of resolve on behalf of the American people. But the American people have been extraordinarily resolved. They have seen their sons and daughters killed or wounded on the streets of Fallujah. They have spent hundreds of billions of dollars on this effort – money that could have been devoted to strengthening our homeland security and our competitive standing as a nation.

No, it has not been a failure of resolve that has led us to this chaos, but a failure of strategy – a strategy that has only strengthened Iran’s strategic position; increased threats posed by terrorist organizations; reduced U.S. credibility and influence around the world; and placed Israel and other nations friendly to the United States in the region in greater peril.

Iraq has not been a failure of resolve, it has been a failure of strategy – and that strategy must change. It is time bring a responsible end to this conflict is now.

There is no military solution to this war. No amount of U.S. soldiers – not 10,000 more, not 20,000 more, not the almost 30,000 more that we now know we are sending– can solve the grievances that lay at the heart of someone else’s civil war. Our troops cannot serve as their diplomats, and we can no longer referee their civil war. We must begin a phased withdrawal of our forces starting May 1st, with the goal of removing all combat forces by March 30th, 2008.

We also must make sure that we’re not as careless getting out of this war as we were getting in, and that’s why this withdrawal should be gradual, and keep some U.S. troops in the region to prevent a wider war and go after Al Qaeda and other terrorists.

But it must begin soon. Letting the Iraqis know that we will not be there forever is our last, best hope to pressure the Iraqis to take ownership of their country and bring an end to their conflict. It is time for our troops to start coming home.


History will not judge the architects of this war kindly. But the books have yet to be written on our efforts to right the wrongs we see in Iraq. The story has yet to be told about how we turned from this moment, found our way out of the desert, and took to heart the lessons of war that too many refused to heed back then.

For it is of little use or comfort to recall past advice and warnings if we do not allow them to guide us in the challenges that lie ahead. Threats loom large in an age where terrorist networks thrive, and there will certainly be times when we have to call on our brave servicemen and women to risk their lives again.

But before we make that most profound of all decisions – before we send our best off to battle, we must remember what led us to this day and learn from the principles that follow.

We must remember that ideology is not a foreign policy. We must not embark on war based on untested theories, political agendas or wishful thinking that has little basis in fact or reality. We must focus our efforts on the threats we know exist, and we must evaluate those threats with sound intelligence that is never manipulated for political reasons again.

We must remember that the cost of going it alone is immense. It is a choice we sometimes have to make, but one that must be made rarely and always reluctantly. That is because America’s standing in the world is a precious resource not easily rebuilt. We value the cooperation and goodwill of other nations not because it makes us feel good, but because it makes all the world safer – because the only way to battle 21st century threats that race across borders – threats like terror, and disease, and nuclear proliferation – is to enlist the resources and support of all nations. To win our wider struggle, we must let people across this planet know that there is another, more hopeful alternative to the hateful ideologies the terrorists espouse – and a renewed America will reflect and champion that vision.

We must remember that planning for peace is just as critical as planning for war. Iraq was not just a failure of conception, but a failure of execution, and so when a conflict does arise that requires our involvement, we must do our best to understand that country’s history, its politics, its ethnic and religious divisions before our troops ever set foot on its soil.

We must understand that setting up ballot boxes does not a democracy make – that real freedom and real stability come from doing the hard work of helping to build a strong police force, and a legitimate government, and ensuring that people have food, and water, and electricity, and basic services. And we must be honest about how much of that we can do ourselves and how much must come from the people themselves.

Finally, we must remember that when we send our servicemen and women to war, we make sure we’ve given them the training they need, and the equipment that will keep them safe, and a mission they can accomplish.


http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070321-remarks_of_sena_11/

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. Iran
SJ Res.23: Use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq

Sponsor: Sen. Barack Obama

11/1/2007–Introduced.

A joint resolution clarifying that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.

States that nothing in the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq of 2002 (P.L. 107-243), any act that serves as the statutory authority for Executive Order 13382 or Executive Order 13224, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law including Executive Order 13382 or Executive Order 13224 shall be construed to authorize, encourage, or in any way address the use of the U.S. Armed Forces against Iran.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:sj23:

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. Floor Statement on New Leadership Resolution on Iraq, 3/13/07
Remarks of Senator Barack Obama Floor Statement on New Leadership Resolution on Iraq
Tuesday, March 13, 2007


Mr. President, the news from Iraq is very bad.

Last week, a suicide bomber stood outside a bookstore and killed 20 people. Other attacks killed 118 Shiite pilgrims. On Sunday, a car bomb went off in central Baghdad and more than 30 people died. And the road from the airport into Baghdad is littered with smoldering debris, craters from improvised explosive devices, and the memories of our sons and daughters.

The civil war rages on. The insurgents have started to change their tactics. They hide in buildings and along the streets and wait for our helicopters. They have shot down at least 8 U.S helicopters in the last month. More of our soldiers are dying and coming home with their bodies broken and their nerves shattered and a VA system completely unprepared for what they need to rebuild their lives.

It is not enough for the President to tell us that victory in this war is simply a matter of American resolve. The American people have been extraordinarily resolved. They have seen their sons and daughters killed or wounded on the streets of Fallujah. They have spent hundreds of billions of dollars on this effort – money that could have been devoted to strengthening our homeland security and our competitive standing as a nation. No, it has not been a failure of resolve that has led us to this chaos, but a failure of strategy – and that strategy must change.

There is no military solution to the civil war that rages on in Iraq. And it is time for us to redeploy so that a political solution becomes possible.

The news from Iraq is very bad, and it has been that way for the last four years.

We all wish that the land the President and the Vice President speak of, exists. We wish that there was an Iraq where the insurgency was in its last throes; where the people work with security; where the children play outside; where a vibrant new democracy lights up the nighttime sky. But there is no alternative reality to what we see and read about in the news—to what we have experienced these long four years.

There is no military solution to this war. At this point, no amount of soldiers can solve the grievances at the heart of someone else’s civil war. The Iraqi people – Shia, Sunni, and Kurd – must come to the table and reach a political settlement themselves. If they want peace, they must do the hard work necessary to achieve it. Our failed strategy in Iraq has strengthened Iran’s strategic position; reduced U.S. credibility and influence around the world; and placed Israel and other nations friendly to the United States in the region in greater peril. These are not the signs of a well-laid plan. It is time for profound change.

This is what we are trying to do here today. We are saying it is time to start making plans to redeploy our troops so they can refocus on the wider struggle against terrorism, win the war in Afghanistan, strengthen our position in the Middle East, and pressure the Iraqis to reach a political settlement. Even if this effort falls short, we will continue to try to accomplish what the American people asked of us last November.

This new effort is gaining consensus. I want to commend Senator Reid for his efforts. He took the time to listen to so many of us from both chambers of Congress to develop this plan.

The decision to begin a phased redeployment with the goal of redeploying all of our combat forces by March 31, 2008 is the right step. It is a measure the Iraq Study Group called for, an idea I borrowed from them, and an idea that more than 60 co-sponsors, from House and the Senate and from both sides of the aisle, have supported since I announced a similar plan in January.

The decision to allow some U.S. forces to remain in Iraq with the clear mission to protect U.S. and coalition personnel, conduct counter-terrorism operations, and to train and equip Iraqi forces is a smart decision. President al-Maliki spoke at a conference and warned that the violence in Iraq could spread throughout the region if it goes unchecked. By maintaining a strong presence in Iraq and the Middle East, we can ensure that the chaos does not spread.

The decision to begin this phased redeployment within 120 days is a practical one. Our military options have been exhausted. It is time to seek a political solution to this war. With this decision, we send a clear signal—not to our enemies—but to the Sunnis, Shia, and Kurds that they must find their own solution to the political and centuries-old battle being fought on the streets today.

And the decision to make this redeployment part of a comprehensive diplomatic and economic strategy in the region is the kind of leadership we need to re-establish our standing in the world and renew our allies’ respect for our cause.

While I strongly believe that this war should never have been authorized, I believe that we must be as careful in ending the war as we were careless getting in. While I prefer my approach, I believe that this new resolution does begin to point U.S. policy in Iraq and the region in the right direction.

An end to the war and achieving a political solution to Iraq’s civil war will not happen unless we demand it. Peace with stability doesn’t just happen because we wish for it. It comes when we never give in and never give up and never tire of working toward a life on earth worthy of our human dignity.


The decisions that have been made have led us to this crossroads—this moment of great peril. We have a choice. We can continue down the road that has weakened our credibility and damaged our strategic interests in the region. Or we can take a turn toward the future. That road will not be smooth, and there are risks involved with any approach.

But this approach is our last, best hope to end this war so we can bring our troops home and begin the hard work of securing our country and our world from the threats we face.

The President has said that he will continue down the road toward more troops and more of the same failed policies. The President sought and won the authorization from Congress to wage this war from the start. But he is now dismissing and ignoring the will of an American people that is tired of years of watching the human and financial tolls mount.

The news from Iraq is very bad, but it can change if we say enough.

Let this be the day that begins the painful and difficult work of moving from this crossroad.

Let this be the day that begins our pull toward the future with a responsible conclusion to this painful chapter in our nation’s history.

Let this be the day when we finally send a message that is so clear, so emphatic that it cannot be ignored.

Thank you, and I yield the floor.


http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070313-remarks_of_sena_10/


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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. Floor Statement on Iraq War De-escalation Act of 2007, 1/30/07
Floor Statement on Iraq War De-escalation Act of 2007
Tuesday, January 30, 2007


Mr. President, today in Iraq, we sadly find ourselves at the very point I feared most when I opposed giving the President the open-ended authority to wage this war in 2002 - an occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences in the midst of a country torn by civil war.

The American people have waited and the American people have been patient. We have given chance after chance for a resolution that has not come, and, more importantly, watched with horror and grief the tragic loss of thousands of brave young American soldiers.

The time for waiting in Iraq is over. The days of our open-ended commitment must come to a close. And the need to bring this war to an end is here.

That is why today, I'm introducing the Iraq War De-escalation Act of 2007.

This plan would not only place a cap on the number of troops in Iraq and stop the escalation, more importantly, it would begin a phased redeployment of U.S. forces with the goal of removing of all U.S. combat forces from Iraq by March 31st, 2008 - consistent with the expectations of the bipartisan Iraq study group that the President has so assiduously ignored.

The redeployment of troops to the United States, Afghanistan, and elsewhere in the region would begin no later than May 1st of this year, toward the end of the timeframe I first proposed in a speech more than two months ago. In a civil war where no military solution exists, this redeployment remains our best leverage to pressure the Iraqi government to achieve the political settlement between its warring factions that can slow the bloodshed and promote stability.

My plan allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain as basic force protection, to engage in counter-terrorism, and to continue the training of Iraqi security forces.

And if the Iraqis are successful in meeting the thirteen benchmarks for progress laid out by the Bush Administration itself, this plan also allows for the temporary suspension of the redeployment, provided Congress agrees that the benchmarks have actually been met and that the suspension is in the national security interest of the United States.

The U.S. military has performed valiantly and brilliantly in Iraq. Our troops have done all that we have asked them to do and more. But no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war, nor settle the grievances in the hearts of the combatants.

It is my firm belief that the responsible course of action - for the United States, for Iraq, and for our troops - is to oppose this reckless escalation and to pursue a new policy. This policy that I've laid out is consistent with what I have advocated for well over a year, with many of the recommendations of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group, and with what the American people demanded in the November election.

When it comes to the war in Iraq, the time for promises and assurances, for waiting and patience, is over. Too many lives have been lost and too many billions have been spent for us to trust the President on another tried and failed policy opposed by generals and experts, Democrats and Republicans, Americans and many of the Iraqis themselves.

It is time for us to fundamentally change our policy.

It is time to give Iraqis their country back.

And it is time to refocus America's efforts on the challenges we face at home and the wider struggle against terror yet to be won.


http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070130-floor_statement_8/

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. Floor Statement on President's Decision to Increase Troops in Iraq, 1/19/07
Floor Statement on President's Decision to Increase Troops in Iraq
Friday, January 19, 2007


Mr. President, I would like to speak briefly on what is a roiling debate not only in the Senate but across the country, and that is the President's policy with respect to Iraq. There are countless reasons the American people have lost confidence in the President's Iraq policy, but chief among them has been the administration's insistence on making promises and assurances about progress and victory that do not appear to be grounded in the reality of the facts. We have been told we would be greeted as liberators. We have been promised the insurgency was in its last throes. We have been assured again and again that we are making progress and that the Iraqis would soon stand up so we could stand down and our brave sons and daughters could start coming home. We have been asked to wait, we have been asked to be patient, and we have been asked to give the President and the new Iraqi Government 6 more months, and then 6 more months after that, and then 6 more months after that.

Now, after the loss of more than 3,000 American lives, after spending almost $400 billion, after Iraq has descended into civil war, we have been promised, once again, that the President's plan to escalate the war in Iraq will, this time, be well planned, well coordinated, and well supported by the Iraqi Government. This time, we didn't have to wait to find out that none of this seems to be the case. Already, American military officials have told the New York Times that there is no clear chain of command between Iraqis and U.S. commanders and no real indication that the Iraqis even want such a partnership. Yesterday, Prime Minister al-Maliki, the person whom the President said had brought this plan to us, the man who is supposed to be our partner-in-chief for this new plan, told foreign journalists that if the United States would only give his Army better weapons and equipment, our soldiers could go home.

The President's decision to move forward with this escalation anyway, despite all evidence and military advice to the contrary, is the terrible consequence of the decision to give him the broad, open-ended authority to wage this war back in 2002. Over 4 years later, we can't revisit that decision or reverse some of the tragic outcomes, but what we can do is make sure we provide the kind of oversight and constraints on the President this time that we failed to do the last time.

I cannot in good conscience support this escalation. It is a policy which has already been tried and a policy which has failed. Just this morning, I had veterans of the Iraq war visit my office to explain to me that this surge concept is, in fact, no different from what we have repeatedly tried, but with 20,000 troops, we will not in any imaginable way be able to accomplish any new progress.

The fact is that we have tried this road before. In the end, no amount of American forces can solve the political differences that lie at the heart of somebody else's civil war. As the President's own military commanders have said, escalation only prevents the Iraqis from taking more responsibility for their own future. It is even eroding our efforts in the wider war on terror as some of the extra soldiers will come directly from Afghanistan, where the Taliban has become resurgent.

The President has offered no evidence that more U.S. troops will be able to pressure Shias, Sunnis, and Kurds toward the necessary political settlement, and he has attached no consequences to his plan should the Iraqis fail to make progress. In fact, just last week, when I repeatedly asked Secretary Rice what would happen if the Iraqi Government failed to meet the benchmarks the President has called for and says are an integral part of their rationale for escalation, she couldn't give me an answer. When I asked her if there were any circumstances whatsoever in which we would tell the Iraqis that their failure to make progress means the end of our military commitment, she could not give me an answer. This is simply not good enough. When you ask how many more months and how many more dollars and how many more lives it will take to end the policy that everyone now knows has not succeeded, ``I don't know'' isn't good enough.

Over the past 4 years, we have given this administration every chance to get this right, and they have disappointed us many times. But ultimately it is our brave men and women in uniform and their families who bear the greatest burden for these mistakes. They have performed in an exemplary fashion. At no stage have they faltered in the mission that has been presented to them.

Unfortunately, the strategy, the tactics, and the mission itself have been flawed. That is why Congress now has the duty to prevent even more mistakes and bring this war to a responsible end. That is why I plan to introduce legislation which I believe will stop the escalation of this war by placing a cap on the number of soldiers in Iraq. I wish to emphasize that I am not unique in taking this approach. I know Senator Dodd has crafted similar legislation. Senator Clinton, I believe, yesterday indicated she shared similar views. The cap would not affect the money spent on the war or on our troops, but it would write into law that the number of U.S. forces in Iraq should not exceed the number that were there on January 10, 2007, the day the President announced his escalation policy.

This measure would stop the escalation of the war in Iraq, but it is my belief that simply opposing the surge is not good enough. If we truly believe the only solution in Iraq is a political one--and I fervently believe that--if we believe a phased redeployment of U.S. forces in Iraq is the best--perhaps only--leverage we have to force a settlement between the country's warring factions, then we should act on that. That is why the second part of my legislation is a plan for phased redeployment that I called for in a speech in Chicago 2 months ago. It is a responsible plan that protects American troops without causing Iraq to suddenly descend into chaos. The President must announce to the Iraqi people that within 2 to 4 months, under this plan, U.S. policy will include a gradual and substantial reduction in U.S. forces. The President should then work with our military commanders to map out the best plan for such a redeployment and determine precise levels and dates.

Drawing down our troops in Iraq will put pressure on Iraqis to arrive at the political settlement that is needed and allow us to redeploy additional troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the region, as well as bring some back home. The forces redeployed elsewhere in the region could then help to prevent the conflict in Iraq from becoming a wider war, something that every international observer is beginning to worry about. It will also reassure our allies in the Gulf. It will allow our troops to strike directly at al-Qaida wherever it may exist and demonstrate to international terrorist organizations that they have not driven us from the region.

My plan would couple this phased redeployment with an enhanced effort to train Iraqi security forces and would expand the number of our personnel--especially special forces--who are deployed with Iraqis as unit advisers and would finally link continued economic aid in Iraq with the existence of tangible progress toward reducing sectarian violence and reaching a political settlement.

One final aspect of this plan that I believe is critical is it would call for engagement by the United States in a regional conference with other countries that are involved in the Middle East--particularly our allies, but including Syria and Iran--to find a solution to the war in Iraq. We have to realize that neither Iran nor Syria wants to see the security vacuum in Iraq filled with chaos, terrorism, refugees, and violence, as it could have a destabilizing effect throughout the entire region and within their own countries. So as odious as the behavior of those regimes may be at times, it is important that we include them in a broader conversation about how we can stabilize Iraq.

In closing, let me say this: I have been a consistent and strong opponent of this war. I have also tried to act responsibly in that opposition to ensure that, having made the decision to go into Iraq, we provide our troops, who perform valiantly, the support they need to complete their mission. I have also stated publicly that I think we have both strategic interests and humanitarian responsibilities in ensuring that Iraq is as stable as possible under the circumstances.

Finally, I said publicly that it is my preference not to micromanage the Commander-in-Chief in the prosecution of war. Ultimately, I do not believe that is the ideal role for Congress to play. But at a certain point, we have to draw a line. At a certain point, the American people have to have some confidence that we are not simply going down this blind alley in perpetuity.

When it comes to the war in Iraq, the time for promises and assurances, for waiting and patience is over. Too many lives have been lost and too many billions have been spent for us to trust the President on another tried-and-failed policy, opposed by generals and experts, opposed by Democrats and Republicans, opposed by Americans and even the Iraqis themselves. It is time to change our policy. It is time to give Iraqis their country back, and it is time to refocus America's effort on the wider struggle against terror yet to be won.


http://obama.senate.gov/speech/070119-mr_president_i/

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. i guess people missed your posts
since no response.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. Why did Hillary vote yes on the IWR and Kyl-Lieberman?
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. Why didn't Obama vote on Kyle-Lieberman? Seriously - how do supporters reconcile that?
Is this a man of courage?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Easy. He didn't vote yes on it.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. But he didn't vote NO. He ducked. I am asking this seriously - how do you reconcile that?
I seriously question his political courage.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Was voting for war and more war for political expediency courageous"
He was out campaigning, Reid brought up the vote with little notice, Obama released a statement saying he opposed the measure but since it was expected to pass by 50+ votes - which it did - his vote would have made no difference - which it would not.

So, I ask you: Why did Hillary vote yes on Kyl-Lieberman? Again she claims "diplomacy" except that dog doesn't hunt since both the IWR and K-L in their very titles were votes on war and impending war.

Do you think she was politically courageous for voting for war and more war?
Are you okay with her calling those votes for war and more war diplomacy?
Do you think it's okay to vote for war and more war out of pure political expediency?

Rhetorical questions. You have to live with the answers.

Me? I'm good.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I am NOT a Hillary supporter. And I asked that she not be brought up. It's a dodge.
I'd just like someone to deal with the questions honestly.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Vote for whomever you want but those two are the choices.
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 06:28 PM by AtomicKitten
Obama opposed the Iraq war from the start. He opposed Kyl-Lieberman.

Hillary voted YES on both.

You do the math and vote however the hell you want. What amazes me is that people like you can't seem to figure this out on your own. You have a brain. Use it.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I do use my brain. That's why I don't like either of the remaining slicksters.
And Obama seems slicker that even Hillary. I've figured it out quite well - my conclusions unalloyed by devotion.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. Preaching Platitudes...now THAT is a McCain talking point.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
29. Should Obama vote against troops in harm's way and against Veterans benefits?
Once the troops were foolishly sent into battle in Iraq from votes such as John Edwards and Hillary Clinton, who both got suckered by Geaorge Bush and/or used their pro-war vote for political expediency, it is clear that Obama cannot vote to abandon them to war zone without equipment, protection and helping finance veterans' needs,
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
40. There's no Yellow Present button to hide behind anymore.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
41. He was campaigning during the Iran vote as Hillary was during the FISA vote
People who criticize presidential candidates for missing votes have no appreciation of just how difficult it is to run for President when you're not an incumbent with luxuries like Air Force One and a police-escorted motorcade.

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