Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina broke DNC rules but were not sanctioned.

[KellyW]

The DNC Rules committee striped Michigan and Florida of their delegates. But New Hampshire and South Carolina and Iowa also broke Rule 11, but were given a pass. They all voted earlier than they were allowed.

I don’t care which candidate it helps, but the DNC rules committee has made a mess of this. Why do some state’s get a pass and others get the “book” thrown at them ?

11. TIIMIING OF THE DELEGATE SELECTIION PROCESS
A. No meetings, caucuses, conventions or primaries which constitute the first determining stage in the presidential nomination process (the date of the primary in primary states, and the date of the first tier caucus in caucus states) may be held prior to the first Tuesday in February or after the second Tuesday in June in the calendar year of the national convention. Provided, however, that the Iowa precinct caucuses may be held no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February; that the Nevada first-tier caucuses may be held no earlier than 17 days before the first Tuesday in February; that the New Hampshire primary may be held no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February; and that the South Carolina primary may be held no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February. In no instance may a state which scheduled delegate selection procedures on or between the first Tuesday in February and the second Tuesday in June 1984 move out of compliance with the provisions of this rule.

[Cameron27]

1. Bookmarking,

that's something I didn't know. K&R for more discussion.

[Debi]

2. You know that those states received waivers from the DNC to move their contests

because of FL/MI moving their contests up without regard to the rules.

[MaineDem]

4. You're absolutely correct! n/t

[Debi]

6. In fact, Iowa wouldn't vote to move their date until the DNC granted them the waiver

The moves of those three states were solely because of the rule-breaking by the party leaders of MI/FL. I feel for the voters of FL/MI who got screwed because of the big egos (and complete contempt of the rules) in their states.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

21. and New Hampshire's state law has always required them to go first

I think thats the case for Iowa too.

[Debi]

38. Yep!

:hi:

[sandnsea]

24. The lack of ethics

in defending FL & MI is really disturbing.

[thoughtcrime1984]

29. What other cheating will these sorts call for?

It gets more toxic every day at DU, as it becomes more apparent that the Clintons may not win the Presidency.

[Debi]

3. Tell the whole story - not just the one that helps your candidate. n/c

[KellyW]

5. Florida asked for their waiver first

It was denied. NH and Iowa set their dates latter asked for the waiver and got it.

[MaineDem]

NH and Iowa were already in the pre-window

They weren't asking to jump ahead of the February 5 date. Florida was.

[Debi]

8. They still had to go outside the rules

and that's why they asked for the waiver. Had Michigan and Florida stayed put Iowa/New Hampshire/South Carolina would have stayed put as well.

[Debi]

7. Then why did Florida move (or at least try NOT to move)?

New Hampshire moved solely because of Michigan's rule-breaking move - and would not have moved otherwise.

(and why wasn't any of this in your OP?)

[KellyW]

12. No in florida the Repug Leg and gov moved the primary

And in NH the repug Sec of State set the date.

[madfloridian]

14. No No No No No.....you are not being honest.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Link?

:hi:

[madfloridian]

27. Sorry I just make stuff up and post it. Don't need no stinking links.

:rofl:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. :-)

[Debi]

39. You're wrong on both counts...

Bill Gardner has been the Democratic Secretary of State for New Hampshire since 1976

and

A Democrat sponsored the legislation to change Florida's primary date (and the legislation was supported by all but three members of the legislature).

How uninformed are you?

[John Q. Citizen]

10. You need to change your subject line. It's mis-leading the way it is. It makes it sound

as if other states broke the rules, when in fact they applied for and got a waiver.

Thank you for your attention to factual posting, KellyW

[KellyW]

15. I think the subject line is accurate

IIRC Iowa and NH got their waivers at the winter DNC meeting... After they had already had their election/selection.

The fact remains that FL and Michigan were sanctioned for breaking rule 11, all of the states asked for a waiver. But Florida and Michigan were denied.

[madfloridian]

18. Those early states petitioned the DNC after they were leapfrogged...

They would not have moved without permission from the party. They got it.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1621

"MUSCATINE, Iowa — Iowa Democrats will likely move up the party’s presidential caucus date, following rescheduling last week by state Republicans, to preserve Iowa’s first-in-the-nation status, Sen. Tom Harkin said Saturday.

“It looks as though we’re going to go Jan. 3,” Harkin told a group of about 100 Democrats gathered for a Muscatine County party fundraiser at Muscatine Community College on Saturday.

Harkin, D-Iowa, said he spoke with Gov. Chet Culver and Iowa Democratic Party Chairman Scott Brennan, and believes Iowa Democrats will seek a waiver from the Democratic National Committee to reschedule the Jan. 14 caucus in light of Michigan’s decision to hold its primary Jan. 15. Harkin said Democrats would not reschedule without a waiver, in order to preserve its good standing with DNC leaders."


What a refreshing difference from the way Florida handled it.

You can make stuff up all day long, but soon people catch on and you lose credibility.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. I'm with you on the credibilty thing. It's really all we have on a community posting board, and

once it's gone, it's gone.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

23. New Hampshire has ALWAYS gone first - their election law requires it

I wondered why New Hampshire always goes first, since they don't seem much
like the rest of the country.

Its because of their state law, a law that is NOT NEW.

[trayfoot]

35. One State.........One Rule!

If ANY were given "waivers", then ALL should have been given "waivers"! I don't say this for any advantage to a candidate - but I AM a supporter of a "one day National Primary". Being from Virginia and not voting until 2/12, I lost the ability to vote for the candidate of my choice. That is NOT a FAIR way of selecting candidates!

[grantcart]

9. Here is the relevent section which specifically allows the four states to go first.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23209237/page/2/

"As leader of the Democratic Party, I strongly urge you to adhere to the 2008 delegate selection rules. The 2008 Delegate Selection Rules. ... The 2008 Delegate Selection Rules adopted by the full DNC at its August 2006 meeting clearly provide that only four states - Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire," "South Carolina - may hold their respective contests prior to February 5, '08. The finding of noncompliance included a 100 percent loss of pledged and unpledged delegates."

[Renew Deal]

11. Actually that's not true.

Jerome Armstrong is lieing (again).

[madfloridian]

13. They got permission from the DNC. Be honest.

.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. So rules are inviolable

unless the DNC says they're not.

[Emit]

20. We are talking about DNC rules, are we not? n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

22. Yes

So the DNC can change the rules. That's what they'll have to do for FL and MI.

[John Q. Citizen]

31. Never going to happen in anyway that will benefit one candidate over the other.

You can hope, though. Hope is good.

[Emit]

16. Not correct

DNC's Rules and Bylaws committee included Nevada and South Carolina in the pre-window primary period.

DNC Black Caucus Chair Virgie Rollins, Hispanic Caucus Chair Alvaro Cifuentes, Asian Pacific Islander American Caucus Chair Bel Leong-Hong, Native American Coodinating Council Chair Frank LaMere, and GLBT Caucus Chair Rick Stafford issued the following joint statement commending the vote by the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee to add two states to the presidential primary calendar pre-window period to join Iowa and New Hampshire. Nevada will hold a caucus and South Carolina will hold a primary in the pre-window period. The committee preserved the historic roles of Iowa and New Hampshire, with Iowa remaining the first caucus in the pre-window period and New Hampshire remaining the first primary:

"Last week's decision by the DNC's Rules and Bylaws committee to include Nevada and South Carolina in the pre-window primary period is a positive development. Broadening the primary window to include these two states is in line with the DNC's goals of adding racial, regional and economic diversity to the selection process of the Democratic presidential nominee.

"As Chairs of the DNC's Black, Hispanic, Asian Pacific Islander American, Native American, and GLBT caucuses we believe that the Democratic Party's strength is its history of rich diversity and inclusiveness and we are enthusiastic that these aspects of the party will now be included in the presidential nominating process. As pointed out by yesterday's Baltimore Sun editorial, Nevada's battleground status, its large and growing APIA population and its Latino and Native American populations in addition to South Carolina's large African-American population will help make the nominating process more reflective of our Party, in addition to reflecting the growing trends of the nation.

"We commend the work of the DNC Rules and Bylaws committee in achieving this goal while leaving intact the traditional roles of New Hampshire and Iowa. We are confident that this decision will strengthen the presidential nominating process and work to ensure the DNC's most important goal of producing the strongest nominee who reflects the values and the diversity of our Party and our country."

The committee also voted to hold the Iowa caucus on January 14th, the Nevada caucus thereafter, the New Hampshire primary on January 22nd, and the South Carolina primary no earlier than January 29th. The window officially opens on February 5th.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/08/dnc_caucus_chai.php

[KellyW]

19. Read the last bit

that is what it says in rule 11 -NH was suppose to vote not earlier jan 22nd they voted on the 8th. Iowa was on the 3rd, by the rules they should not have gone before the 14th

[madfloridian]

26. Please read this I posted above. You are stubborn.

The early states got permission after they were leapfrogged.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1621

"MUSCATINE, Iowa — Iowa Democrats will likely move up the party’s presidential caucus date, following rescheduling last week by state Republicans, to preserve Iowa’s first-in-the-nation status, Sen. Tom Harkin said Saturday.

“It looks as though we’re going to go Jan. 3,” Harkin told a group of about 100 Democrats gathered for a Muscatine County party fundraiser at Muscatine Community College on Saturday.

Harkin, D-Iowa, said he spoke with Gov. Chet Culver and Iowa Democratic Party Chairman Scott Brennan, and believes Iowa Democrats will seek a waiver from the Democratic National Committee to reschedule the Jan. 14 caucus in light of Michigan’s decision to hold its primary Jan. 15. Harkin said Democrats would not reschedule without a waiver, in order to preserve its good standing with DNC leaders."

[KellyW]

32. Harkin is not the Iowa Dem Party

It is nice that he was not threating to move without the waiver, but he is not the one who makes the decision. NH is a state run election and SoS sets the date-whether they get a wavier or not.

[madfloridian]

33. Bottom line.....the early states got permission to move up.

That was the question, I answered it. Harkin was speaking as a rep of the IA party by whom he is greatly respected.

Keep it up. Hurt your credibility. You don't bother me at all.

[KellyW]

37. for a "madfloridian" you don't seem very mad

for a "madfloridian" you don't seem very mad that the DNC and your own state party leadership disenfranchised you like...well.... like Kathrine Harris.

We basically agree on the facts. NH, Iowa, and SC ask for waivers and got them. Florida and Michigan ask for waivers and were rejected. They all broke Rule 11.

What's with the credibility mantra ?

[yewberry]

40. If you think so, you don't know her.

She's furious and she's passionate. Check out the journal.

[madfloridian]

42. Gosh, maybe because you posted this?

"No, in florida the Repug Leg and gov moved the primary
And in NH the repug Sec of State set the date."

Because you posted this:

" IIRC Iowa and NH got their waivers at the winter DNC meeting... After they had already had their election/selection."

"It is nice that he was not threating to move without the waiver, but he is not the one who makes the decision. NH is a state run election and SoS sets the date-whether they get a wavier or not."

And kept on after it was explained.

[Debi]

41. But Harkin was speaking on behalf of the Iowa Democratic Party

and would not have spoken to the press w/out the agreement of the party leaders. He's been an elected official from Iowa since 1974 and has always had a good relationship with his party chairs. You really don't know anything about the make up of the Iowa Democratic Party.

[Medusa]

34. Weren't their delegate counts halved or at least reduced?

[KellyW]

36. No that's what the repugs did to their line jumpers

although, those penalties were possible for the DNC also, but the RBC chose the death penalty for FL and Michigan and a free pass for the others.