Are there any groups preparing to protest the convention yet?

[JVS]

I keep hearing all this talk about "taking it all the way to the convention" It's hard to imagine that if this were the case protesters wouldn't show up. So what should we expect the convention to look like?

[bicentennial_baby]

1. Free Speech Zones for Everybody!!

:bounce:

[JVS]

2. RAWK on with your bad self in the FSZ!

[Mz Pip]

3. As someone who

was in Chicago in 1968, I really hope it doesn't end up looking like that.

[JVS]

4. Me too, but when people are hoping to seat invalid delegates and go over the public's votes with...

super delegates, it doesn't take too much imagination to see people being upset enough by such things to get out and protest.

[MonkeyFunk]

5. Cuts both ways

try to disenfranchise two large states, and it doesn't take too much imaginatin to see people being upset enough by such things to get out and protest.

[JVS]

6. It was the state parties that disenfranchised those voters by violating the agreed upon schedule

[MonkeyFunk]

10. It was a pissing match

between the DNC and the state parties. One big game of chicken that both sides lost.

Now it has to be resolved.

[JVS]

11. It is resolved. All the candidates agreed that those contests did not count

[MonkeyFunk]

13. It is not resolved

All candidates agreed not to run ads in Florida, too, but somehow that didn't matter.

Disenfranchising two big states is not a resolution, no matter how much you want it to be. It would be political suicide.

[Yurovsky]

27. They need to caucus or have another primary ...

for fuck's sake, Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan, and in numerous counties in Florida, there were NO Dem candidates on the ballots given to Democrat primary voters (only yes/no vote on a state constitution amendment re: property taxes).

So if THAT is really "counting all the votes", I'm a fucking monkey's uncle.

Do them over or don't seat the delegates. Nothing else would be fair, regardless of what Queen Hillary & her minions insist.

[MonkeyFunk]

32. Any evidence that Obama's name was not on the ballot

in numerous counties in Florida?

I think you're just making shit up.

[Yurovsky]

39. Oh, so I'm a liar?

try getting off your lazy ass and researching it.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. Also

The pledge did not say they agreed the votes wouldn't count. This is what they agreed to:

WHEREAS, over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a 2008 nominating calendar;
WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic diversity of our party and our country;
WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to ensure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;
WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.
THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.



Only Obama violated the pledge in Florida and Dennis Kucinich in Michigan.

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. Not true

Obama ran NATIONWIDE televised ads that happened to run in Florida media markets (his campaign's ability to control this is a debatable point, but you can't make the argument that it was definitely deliberate).

And the only fair solution to Michigan and Florida is a revote. Those contests were declared VOID before they happened, there was no campaigning, there was not even a representative choice on the balot in Michigan. It's all well and good to make noises about 'enfranchising Florida and Michigan voters', but you can't do that with the questionable results of a meaningless primary. The rules were in place well before the vote in those states. All parties agreed. Senator Clinton may have changed her mind now that she's in desperate straits and hoping for as many delegates as she can get, but that does nothing to alter her earlier agreement.

[MonkeyFunk]

33. Imagine, if you will

that Clinton had run national ads that aired in Florida, but Obama did not.

You really think everybody here would say "Oh, ok... they were national ads."

I don't. I think you're all a bunch of hypocrites.

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. If her campaign had managed its funds well enough to be able to run national ads...

and those ads aired in Florida, then I don't think anyone would be arguing that there was specific intent to campaign in Florida behind NATIONAL advertising.

And exactly HOW hypocritical is it to have your candidate first agree that the results of the Florida and Michigan primaries DON'T COUNT (which she did) and then demand to be awarded delegates from those primaries ex post facto? (Since you want to talk about hypocrisy)

[MonkeyFunk]

37. Ah, the shifting excuse

You guys told us when this issue first arose that Obama chose national ads because it was cheaper than running multiple regional ads.

Now it's more expensive to run national ads, and Obama's the only one who could afford to do so.

Nonetheless, Obama ran ads in Florida. He was the only candidate to do so, in direct violation of the pledge.

The pledge said nothing about trying to get the delegates to count, or asking the DNC to reconsider later. Nothing at all.

The pledge said not to campaign - and only Obama did.


Now again, tell me honestly that if Clinton had done it, and Obama didn't, that you wouldn't shit a monkey.

[Spider Jerusalem]

38. My position would remain identical.

Because it's absurdist to claim specific intent to 'campaign in Florida' behind national advertising.

My opinion on the Florida and Michigan delegations would also remain identical regardless of who had won; those primaries were declared invalid, this was something agreed upon by all of the candidates, and the only fair and equitable thing, if delegates from either of those states are to count for anything, is a revote. The right thing to do is rarely the most convenient.

And your comment about 'shifting excuses'? Is utter nonsense. Please. Search my posts, point out where I have made any statements in differentiation to the point of view I've expressed here. I am not 'you guys'; I am not a representative of some faceless and monolithic 'Obama campaign'; my words and opinions are my own, and consistent. Thanks so much for implying otherwise, though.

[UALRBSofL]

12. I'm wondering if the florida delegates

All 210 plus 31 alternate and the super-delegates do a sit out in protest of voter disenfranchising. As far as Michigan, I don't know what they would do.

[billyoc]

7. '08 will make '68 look like '48. nt

[Javaman]

18. In tribute, check my photo. :) that's where it's from.

[patrice]

20. Is that Jerry Rubin (?) or Abbie Hoffman or . . . . ?

I know there were others in the Chicago 6 (? - 8?), but I don't know that many.

I think we need some Issues oriented Artists to show up this year, say issues such as Election and Campgaign Finance Reform, for example.

Somebody from Nirvana has been promoting Fair Vote dot org.

[Yurovsky]

28. Krist Novoselic* n/m

nm

[patrice]

31. Right. nt

[no name no slogan]

8. The GOP Convention will take place a couple blocks from my workplace

And only a couple of miles from my house. I am sincerely hoping to telecommute that week. I could be seriously ill if I have to deal with that many Republicans at once.

[JVS]

9. you're not going to protest them?

[no name no slogan]

14. No way. I've protested those GOP asswipes enough in my life

traffic sucks bad enough downtown at rush hour as it is. It will be bad enough trying to get past/around the security setup and get home at a decent hour. The less time I spend in downtown St Paul, the better. Just about anybody who lives here will say the same thing.

[patrice]

23. Protests would be more useful on specific issues in DC, when one of the big

peace and justice coalitions puts together a lobbying day or just a national gathering in DC - would be more useful than protesting political gatherings.

Making Issues our primary value will free us from political machines and give local activists a clearer view of the organizing tasks that needs to be accomplished.

[ruggerson]

16. You mean if Ted Kenney and John Kerry decide to override the will of the Mass voters

and vote for Obama, there will and should be protests?

[JVS]

17. Sure, why not. Are you gonna be there if that happens?

[Telly Savalas]

30. People will see Dick Gephardt and Emmanual Cleaver overriding the will of Missouri voters

and will declare it a push.

[patrice]

19. Taking it to the convention doesn't necessarily = Protest. Some people may wish

to observe the events associated with this historical election.

And also support their most strongly held issues: Health Care, Campaign and Election Reform, etc. etc.

Afterall, isn't that what people are supposed to do, everyone take responsibility to act constructively with others on the issues most important to you and yours?

Speaking as a person who has been to DC/and/orNY 6 times in the last 7 years, I think there will be a great deal of interest in "attending" the convention amongst those who are already active on the issues at any level.

Think: Constructivist Local Issue Support + Grassroots Networking with local and regional friends to observe "our" convention. Whether "we" ever enter the convention hall or not, we know what our Issues are.

Solidarity.

[Gnister]

21. Democrat FIRST.

Democrat FIRST.

Lets Unite to beat the republican candidate in November. No more betrayal and siding up with McCain or trying to break the Democratic Party by changing the rules when you are not satisfied with the result of them!!!

[patrice]

24. Yes. + Let's talk about our future on the issues together. nt

[sniffa]

22. I think the Yippies are planning some bad shit

[JVS]

25. Aw shit, it's taterguy!

[patrice]

26. It appears that "Anarchists" of one variety or another are a given. nt

[NMMatt]

34. There will be huge protests if they do

But they won't. Long before the convention the Democrats will come to a consensus. If the Clintons refuse, they will become marginalized. They care about their own political self-interest for that. The only way Clinton wins this is if she catches up to some virtual tie in pledged delegates (since more than half the super delegates will back the pledged delegate winner) and negotiates the majority of super delegates for herself in June.

[GoldieAZ49]

36. Al Sharpton has already started planning to protest

If they try to seat the FL & MI delegates. He has talked about it on TV.

It MUST be resolved long before the convention.

Convention planners are gearing up for protests, they talked about it even before the voting started.

It will be a sad state of affairs for the party if it happens.