Barack Wants it Both Ways

[Altec]

When it comes to Michigan and Florida, Barack doesn't think the delegates should be seated because it goes against rules set by the DNC (even though he broke the pledge by campaigning in Florida).

When it comes to superdelegates, Barack doesn't want them to follow the rules set by DNC and vote in proportion to the people.

I'm tired of Barack not being held accountable for hypocrisy.

He said in 2004 that he didn't know how he would vote in the Iraq war. Now, he has superior judgment. He says he said that because he didn't want to go against the candidates running for president and VP, but that's just playing old politics.

Will Obama do as well in the general election when he has to start answering the tough questions?

[ingac70]

1. He broke no rules in Florida.

He went to fundraisers, just like Hillary, and those weren't against the rules.

And the rules for superdelegates is that they can vote for whoever the hell they want to, so I don't know where you get this proportional shit.

[Ravy]

3. He ran TV ads in Florida before the vote.

I know, he has an excuse for that, too.

Funny, I didn't see any *after* the vote.

[ingac70]

28. Those ads were NATIONAL

I guess they were suppose to black out tv in Florida.

[Ravy]

30. And he promised not to. That is the point.

Always with the excuses.

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. He should have done what all the other candidates did...not run ANY ads. He knew it was a National

Buy and he knew it would run in Florida and he chose to CHEAT!

[Auntie Bush]

48. He was trying to be sneaky and get around the rules. Didn't he know Florida was

part of our nation. Where'd he think it was...off the coast of ME? He knew what he was doing and he broke the rules and know he's crying foul...because maybe he's a sore loser? :shrug:

[TheDebbieDee]

6. His campign paid for commercials that were seen in Florida as well.

[Medusa]

22. His campaign buys were not Florida only,

they ran in ALL of the 50 states. That was perfectly allowable under the agreement that these candidates SIGNED from the DNC. That is not campaigning--it's advertising and it was allowable. I'm so sick of seeing this lie repeated ad nauseum here when it's not the truth at all.

[Ravy]

31. It was NOT allowable. And his campaign lied

about going to the DNC and getting permission. Didn't happen, according to the DNC.

He even asked the SC primary chair for permission, so he knew it was wrong.

[boppers]

23. Which national TV channel doesn't run in Florida?

I'm confused by this idea. Is your point that he only should advertise in states that "count"?




edit: typo

[Ravy]

32. No, my point is he *shouldn't" advertise where he pledged not to.

Like I said, I haven't seen any ads since the Fla primary, even in the week before Super Tuesday.

[anamandujano]

19. He ran across the street and gave an interview to reporters. When

they pointed out he was breaking the rules, he said he was just doing them a favor.

[lligrd]

2. Speaking Of Hypocrisy

Hillary wants the exact opposite and your failure to mention it hypocritical.

[Bread and Circus]

4. By asking the Superdelegates to vote with the will of the people is not breaking the rules...

It's his right to ask them to do so, it's their right vote their conscience.

It's just as much within the rules for them to go with the people as it is for them to go with who they think is going to be the best in the GE.

You are comparing apples to chainsaws.

BTW you are a sockpuppet and welcome to ignore.

[anamandujano]

14. but he's not consistent

His camp is pressuring the supers to go along with their district, pressuring supers to go along with a slight lead in pledged, pressuring black supers not to stand in the way of a possible black president. ("Do you want to go down in history as someone who denied a black the presidency?" words to that effect)

The worst is that they trying to set the rules that supers must go along with a FAUX BIG MO created by the corporate media, the right arm of the Repukes.

[TankLV]

27. Let us know when he INSISTS on Kennedy, Reid and the others voting for HILLARY then...

in the states SHE won the popular vote...

We won't be holding our breath...

unless he does, and you LOUDLY INSIST that he does, you are just another obamabot HYPOCRIT...

[stillcool]

29. Massachusetts has 26 Super Delegates...

and I'm sure you are aware that Obama has picked up several delegates in the state. My county for instance. You can go here and find out which super delegates have officially announced who they plan to nominate.
http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegate-list.html

[bunnies]

5. Please post a link that shows Obama asking the DNC to change the rules.

Thanks.

[bunnies]

13. Ok Ill go first. Heres a link showing Hillary asking the DNC to change the rules.

regarding FL and MI: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=5492

Now YOU post the link where Obama requests that the role of super delegates be changed.

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. Here's his threat:

<snip>Obama this week warned Super-delegates to vote the way their states have voted, "if this contest comes down to super-delegates, we are going to be able to say we have more pledged delegates, which means the Democratic voters have spoken. Those super-delegates, those party insiders would have to think long and hard how they would approach the nomination." Obama suggested "the argument we would be making to super-delegates is, if we come into the convention with more pledged delegates then I think we can make a very strong argument that our constituencies have spoken and I think that's going to be pretty important when it comes to the general election."<snip>

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/the-super-deleg.html

[pointsoflight]

41. "Make a strong argument" is a threat?

"Make a strong argument" is trying to break the rule?

Hahaha... it's sad to see the desperation in the air...

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. ABSOLUTELY it's a THREAT. If you don't vote for me, my voters won't vote in the GE.

That's exactly what he's saying.


Obama this week warned Super-delegates to vote the way their states have voted, "if this contest comes down to super-delegates, we are going to be able to say we have more pledged delegates, which means the Democratic voters have spoken. Those super-delegates, those party insiders would have to think long and hard how they would approach the nomination." Obama suggested "the argument we would be making to super-delegates is, if we come into the convention with more pledged delegates then I think we can make a very strong argument that our constituencies have spoken and I think that's going to be pretty important when it comes to the general election."


If that isn't a THREAT, I'll eat my right arm.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

7. This works both ways

"When it comes to Michigan and Florida, Hillary wants the delegates to be seated, against the rules set by the DNC.

When it comes to superdelegates, Hillary wants them to follow the rules set by the DNC and go against the votes of the people.

I'm tired of Hillary not being held accountable for hypocrisy.

She voted for the Iraq War. Now, she somehow has superior judgement, despite remaining in bed with the Republicans and failing to vote against parts of the FISA bill that would strip us of our 4th amendment rights.

Will Hillary do as well in the general election when she has to release her tax returns and start answering tough questions?"

:wtf:

You should feel ashamed.

And I wrote the above paragraph as an example of how stupid your post is, and not because I support the viewpoint.

[juajen]

12. So, this is your first Presidential election?

Hillary has no problem releasing her tax returns, and the rest of your post is dubious, to say the least.

Shake that dust out of your eyes and learn by reading, a lot.

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. Did Biden, Richardson, Edwards, Gravel, Kucinich and Dodd release their tax returns?

If not, why should Hillary release hers BEFORE she's the candidate? She said she would release her tax returns IF she's the nominee. Why should the freepers get to scour their income if she's NOT the nominee? That's just nuts.

[Straight Shooter]

52. If she releases her returns, everyone will nitpick them to F'ing death.

She'll spend all her time answering questions about Line 34 on Schedule Blah-blah-blah instead of speaking about the issues.

This "tax return" crap is a red herring, it's been waved in our faces for days, and it's really beginning to stink.

[anamandujano]

8. If he gets the nod, I'll be sad about the future of the country but

I'll be able to offset that fear for awhile watching the starry eyed Obamatrons getting their rude awakening.

:popcorn:

[DemGa]

9. Indeed

He didn't know what he would do (IWR), then says he "got it right" but wasn't there, gave political cover for Kerry over his vote, AND condemns Hillary Clinton over vote.

Hard to keep up with the spin!

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

10. He has consistently been against the IWR since the beginning

http://accidentalideas.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/lawrence-lessig-explains-his-support-for-barack-obama/

Your swiftboating is lame and pathetic.

[anamandujano]

16. and yet consistently votes to fund

Has he launched any charge in congress, with his great leadership skills, to stop the war?

If you read at his website, you'll see that his plans for foreign policy are nauseatingly similar to McCain.

He's going to make our current quagmire permanent and provoke anyone who doesn't already hate us to join the club.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

20. Please watch the video

which addresses your argument.

[Vinca]

11. He hasn't asked them to change the rules about superdelegates.

He has given his opinion that he thinks they should respect the wishes of the voters. How is that bad? Do you prefer back room, "paid for" politics where the voters come last?

[anamandujano]

15. 2025 is the number that reflects the clear will of the people.

If that number is not met in pledged, there is no incontestable winner.

[Vinca]

18. So if Hillary is up by 50 delegates and they give it to Obama

you're okay with that?

[anamandujano]

21. Beg pardon! I don't know how you reach that conclusion based on

what I wrote.

As of now, I'm assuming you just transposed the names by mistake.

[Vinca]

25. No, I didn't transpose the names.

There is the possibility it could break the wrong way for you. Maybe, at the last moment, those delegates will look at the polls and how the candidates compare to McCain and decide on Obama over Hillary, even if she's ahead. You seem to think it's okay for them to choose Hillary over Obama, even if he's ahead, but not to choose Obama over Hillary if she's ahead.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. How about honoring the LONG STANDING RULE of letting the Super Delegates vote

for the candidate OF THEIR CHOICE instead of him suggesting new rules?

[DS1]

17. horseshit

[MannyGoldstein]

24. Hit Pieces Against Obama Are Working Wonders

Keep it up - I like where this is going. At this rate, you'll sink Clinton into single digits... awesome!

[bunnies]

26. I especially like drive-by posts like this one.

When the OP cant be bothered to post in their own thread, it really says a lot about it. Dontcha think?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

33. I just just love the newbie hit-and-run posts, and how so many jump right in

and accommodate their agendas. Meh.

[AZBlue]

36. Please stop posting lies and propaganda.

"Barack doesn't want them to follow the rules set by DNC"

That's a lie. There are NO RULES set by the DNC regarding superdelegates other than they can vote however they please.

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. Exactly and he threatened that they should do otherwise:

Obama this week warned Super-delegates to vote the way their states have voted, "if this contest comes down to super-delegates, we are going to be able to say we have more pledged delegates, which means the Democratic voters have spoken. Those super-delegates, those party insiders would have to think long and hard how they would approach the nomination." Obama suggested "the argument we would be making to super-delegates is, if we come into the convention with more pledged delegates then I think we can make a very strong argument that our constituencies have spoken and I think that's going to be pretty important when it comes to the general election."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/the-super-deleg.html

[AZBlue]

42. I believe most Americans would want them to vote the way of the public vote.

On both sides of the aisle and no matter what candidate they support. If Clinton had the majority of the primaries' votes I would absolutely expect the superdelegates to vote accordingly.

Why would anyone not want their vote to count? That's totally illogical. In that case, we can just all stay home and leave future elections to the superdelegates. WTF?

I'm sorry, but you're both grasping at straws here. You may have issues with BO over other subjects and I respect that, but this is much ado about absolutely nothing at all.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. What IF

Hillary has the popular vote and BO has the pledged delegates? What then? Or vice versa? What then? Are the Super Delegates still expected to vote for Obama because he has told his voters to stay home if he's not the nominee (which is what he's doing with these threats of his)?

[Clovis Sangrail]

50. he told his voters to stay home if he's not the delegate?? link please

or are you just making stuff up?

[AZBlue]

51. The popular vote doesn't count for much.

Not in the GE and not in the primaries. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing because that's a discussion for another time and place. It's simply the way our system is set up, for better or worse. The convention and the superdelegates should go along with pledged delegates, just like the GE follows electoral votes, not the popular vote.

It may or may not be the best system but it's the one in place right now. We can't change it in the middle of an election process.

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Also...if having everyone's vote counted is so important to Obama and his supporters

why not seat the MI and FL delegates?

[AZBlue]

53. Obama made that decision??

Please, stop already, this is becoming ridiculous.

That decision was made by the DNC - don't like it, take it up with them.

Additionally, the process shouldn't be changed in the middle of the election - those were the rules going into the process and they can't be changed half-way through just because they don't favor your candidate. And I'd be saying the same thing if the situation was reversed.

You also have to consider this - Obama didn't campaign much in MI and FL because he was going according to those rules set by the DNC - if he had, he possibly would be the "winner" in one or both states. He wasn't even on the "ballot" and yet people think these states should count? Again...ridiculous.

If he had campaigned, been on the "ballot" and won, HRC supporters would secede from the country if the possibility of MI and FL being counted were even hinted at anywhere. But, because it's their candidate, this lunacy is acceptable?

No, it's not. It has to be a fair situation.

[rug]

40. Actually, he said he was lying in 2004 when he said he didn't know how he'd have voted on the IWR.

New politics?

[Clovis Sangrail]

49. right... but now he says he was lying about lying about not knowing

how he would have voted if he could have voted


(the answer is 2 cords of wood... but that could be a lie too)

DAMN this propaganda stuff gets confusing.. :banghead:

[fishwax]

46. what a thoroughly illogical argument

He isn't arguing that the superdelegates shouldn't follow the rules. That's just silly.

[Clovis Sangrail]

47. supers don't have to 'vote in proportion to the people'