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HRC is as ready for day one as Rumsfield was for the Iraq war

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:23 PM
Original message
HRC is as ready for day one as Rumsfield was for the Iraq war
Think about it.

both have been around for ever, both are smart and think that they are the sharpest person around on policy, both have resumes the size of phone books. Both are terrible listners to contrarian views. Both stress loyalty in subordinates rather than competence and a free debating atmosphere.

Rumsfield put all of his planning into a quick military victory and nothing into the occupation.

Hillary put all of her eggs into Feb 5th. Afterwards she was flat broke.

Not ready for a full campaign

Not ready with a coherent winning message

Not ready with a plan on what to do with Bill

Not ready on the IWR

Not ready on how to explain your mistake on the IWR

Not ready to be competitive in caucuses.

Not ready to release her tax records, financial details of the library or give a coherent answer why not.

Not ready 8 times since super Tuesday and not ready in Wisconsin that favors her demographics.

Not even sure what the central theme of the campaign is not ready with a campaign manager.

But the day before she puts her hand on the bible she is going to get it all together and be ready for day one - now that is a fairly tale.

What went wrong = hubris goes before the fall.

Ready, my lord, never has a campaign running on the theme of managerial competence been more mismanaged.

She's a great person, she looks great, she's a wonderful mother, she's good on policy detail, she's a hard working Senator and I'll agree to 15 other positive statements about her but please don't try and peddle day one readiness in here when you come to snark a thread. There is no evidence that she is ready.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good list. Bookmarked.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Thank you please feel free to copy it and put in a thread under your
own name every time a Clinton supporter tries to answer a substantive point with, "Well she is ready".
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ouch, and rec'd. Everything you write is true. nt
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. tks
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. None of that matters...
It's all just words. :sarcasm:
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. kickeroo
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Folks in the Middle East and many in Africa are rooting for her because of Bubba.
As King Hussein said, no president has worked as hard and been as effective in the Middle East than Clinton. They want him back.

I want him to help clean up the mess Bush has made there.

So, comparing her to Rumsfeld is a dog that just doesn't hunt. She has a learning curve and he doesn't. Oh yeah, she's not evil either.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. "They want him back"
He isn't running.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The point was not whether people who have not been watching
the campaign closely think she is ready, nor is the question is if she is evil. Please re-read the OP I pointed 5 good and nice things about her and stipulated to 15 more you pick it. Just when you are discussing the merits of her candidacy in the threads please come with something more thoughtful than "she is ready" because quite clearly she was not ready for the campaign that she has spent her whole life waiting for - just like Rumsfield wasn't ready for the war he spent his whole life waiting for. The reason has to do with a strikingly similar leadership style.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Um yeah,
The key word there is KING Hussein. I don't really care (and am not surprised) that the despots in the middle east and africa want another 8 years of Clinton. They probably wouldn't mind another 30 years of Clinton. They don't care about democracy or the constitution. They're despots.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. When is that learning curve thing going to kick in? day one?
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Missed one. She wasted 140,000,000 Big ones, sans a rational plan.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Mine was only intended as a starters list lol please feel free to add to it
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End Of The Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. If you're really trying to draw comparisons
between Rumsfeld and a democratic candidate

then you are a FReeper. Get out.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Ok lets try this once more
I specifically said 5 nice things about Hillary and stipulated to 15 more that you can name.

What she has in common with his management style.

Here is a very well researched and widely discussed article by Joshua Green
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200802u/patti-solis-doyle/2

For a more detailed examination of this style please note:


1) There was an indepth article about the inner workings of the Clinton campaign that HRC had killed because she wanted to control the press (very Rumsfield like)

quote
I’ve spent a fair amount of time over the last two years reporting on “Hillaryland,” as Clinton’s inner circle is known, for pieces like this one and this one, and also, infamously, for one that did not run when GQ magazine opted to kill it after learning of the Clinton campaign’s displeasure, unquote


2) The campaign started with an "air of inevitability" in fact that was what the campaign was selling. This again is very reminiscent of Rumsfield:

quote
Such arrogance led directly to the idea that Clinton could simply project an air of inevitability and be assured her party’s nomination.
unquote

3) Here is where the qualities of the campaign manager are discussed loyalty over independent voice (please think about Rumsfield and the Joint Chiefs of staff and the way that Rumsfield selected his generals - very similar)

quote
No one could have predicted Barack Obama’s sudden rise, though the Clinton campaign was slower to recognize it than most. Solis Doyle’s failure is another matter. As much as Clinton touts her own “executive experience” and judgment, she made Solis Doyle her campaign manager because of Solis Doyle’s loyalty, rather than her skill, despite a trail of available evidence suggesting she was unsuited for the role.
unquote

Substitue Obama for the Iraqi insurgency and Doyle for the Joint Chiefs and it reads like Iraq.


4) Once the Iraqi war started to go south Rumsfield sent his henchmen in to discipline doubters not find out what was going on
Here is HRC version in her campaign

quote
With her staff’s squabbling threatening to torpedo her campaign, Clinton dispatched Solis Doyle to New York in August to serve as an enforcer and get things under control, which she largely managed to do. The leaks were contained, the play-it-safe camp of Penn and Grunwald ultimately prevailed
unquote

5) Rather than ask questions and seek out independent voices Rumsfield was complacent. Meanwhile the Clinton campaign

quote
This belief in Hillary’s unassailability fostered a complacency that may cost Clinton more dearly than anyone could have imagined
unquote

6) Her staff structure similar to ?

quote

Rather than punish Solis Doyle or raise questions about her fitness to lead, Clinton chose her to manage the presidential campaign for reasons that should now be obvious: above all, Clinton prizes loyalty and discipline, and Solis Doyle demonstrated both traits, if little else. This suggests to me that for all the emphasis Clinton has placed on executive leadership in this campaign, her own approach is a lot closer to the current president’s than her supporters might like to admit.

unquote


You want to argue with my premise or conclusions fine. But please next time you accuse me of being a freeper or anything else please don't embarass yourself and try and bring facts, insight or an argument.

To summarize: Hillary is good. Her campaign management terrible (and in many ways reminiscent of Rumsfield) and whatever else you think it is now most clear that she is not ready for day one.




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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Between their strategies. They both thought it would be over in 30 days
And they both were wrong.

Take your Freeper crap elsewhere.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hillary and Rummy both thought their "war" would be over in a month, & they'd be seen as liberators
both wrong, too
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. the also both didn't see the axe coming until . . . .
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Both thought they'd be welcomed with flowers and parades.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. and both will soon be making 8 figures on their next book
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. The perfect rationale for opposing Hillary is heah!
Everything she is supposed to espouse is contradicted by her failing campaign (not to mention her failed healthcare proposal in 1994).
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