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Let the people decide the nominee? Hillary is up 678,000 Democratic votes in the popular vote total.

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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 08:50 PM
Original message
Let the people decide the nominee? Hillary is up 678,000 Democratic votes in the popular vote total.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27036

Count WHOSE Vote?
guest post by Paul Lukasiak

Based on exit polls, among the approximately 16.3 million people who identified themselves as Democrats, over 678,000 more voted for Hillary Clinton than Barack Obama. If we’re going to “let the people decide" who the Democratic nominee would be, shouldn’t we be basing that on the will of Democrats themselves?

The latest meme from the Barack Obama camp (and one that is being heavily promoted by the media), is that super-delegates should comply with “the will of the people” as reflected in the popular vote count. But this was hardly even mentioned until the week after Super Tuesday, when Obama took the lead in total votes cast in the primaries.

In fact, on Super Tuesday, 295,952 more primary voters cast their ballots for Hillary Clinton than for Obama, yet somehow neither the Obama campaign, nor the media, was paying much attention to Clinton’s lead in the popular vote. If we include all the states that held primaries before Super Tuesday (NH, SC, MI, FL) Clinton was up by 468,024 votes—that was 2.51% of the total votes cast. But talking about that number was not a media priority either.

Only now that Obama has a miniscule lead of 128,736 in the number of votes cast (and that includes assigning all the “uncommitted” votes in Michigan to Obama) has the media focused on total votes cast. This lead represents less than 1% (0.62%) of votes cast in the primary elections held so far, yet it is trumpeted by the media endlessly.

But, since this is actually the Democratic primary, perhaps we should look at how Democrats have actually voted. Based on the available exit polling data, we find that Hillary Clinton has a commanding lead over Barack Obama in the number of votes – As of February 16, 2008, 391,992 more Democrats voted for Clinton than Obama.

That number does not include results from the District of Columbia, because of a lack of exit polling data. If we include DC, and assume that 100% of the voters were Democrats, Clinton still has a lead among Democrats of 333,981 votes.

But that number also doesn’t include Florida. Add in Florida’s Democrats, and Clinton’s lead advantage increases to 565,684. Nor does it include Michigan; and even if we assign all the Democrats who voted “uncommitted” to Obama, Clinton’s lead among Democratic voters grows to 678,276.

In terms of actual Democratic voters, the numbers from Super Tuesday are astonishing – and were, of course, ignored by the media. Out of over 12,100,000 votes cast by Democrats that day, Clinton beat Obama by nearly 7%, and just short of 837,000 votes. And if we include all the primaries that took place before Super Tuesday (NH, SC, MI, FL) the Clinton advantage among Democrats rises to 7.5%, and well over a million votes.

As Democrats, it is our votes that should be the determining factor in a close race. We’re the voters that the party can depend on, and ignoring the will of Democratic voters can lead to Democratic voters ignoring the will of the party.

more...
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, we should let NY and CA choose and be done with it.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Normally I'd say that was a great idea...
but Mayor Giuliani and Governor Schwarzennegger convinced me otherwise.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. NY, CA and Puerto Rico.
:thumbsup:
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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. BS. We don't pick candidates based on exit polls.
I don't know why you need to cook up numbers to support your candidate.

:dem:
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. You DO know why they have to cook the numbers.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. She used them to exclude rethug and indie votes which have put Obama over the top
Look at the exit polls yourself. It is rethugs and indies who have put Obama ahead. He is losing among Democrats.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Guess what. Hillary isn't going to win the presidency without independent support.
So there goes favorite Hillary surrogate Taylor Marsh's argument.

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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. It will be Democrats, Independents, and Republicans who put Obama in the White House in November
Get used to it.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Just like they voted for Wallace in 72' and Jackson in 88' because they (rethugs) liked them
:rofl:

They want us to nominate the weakest candidate again. They like him for the same reason many Democrats voted for Romney in Michigan.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Face it. Hillary's days are numbered.
You should really start adjusting to the future Democratic Nominee.

The longer you hold out, the more difficult it will be for you.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. still living in that little bubble or your's aren't you.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. delete
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 09:26 PM by paulk




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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Stupidest argument ever. Obama is in *actual* popular votes, no matter how they are counted.
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 09:01 PM by jefferson_dem
States Awarding Delegates

Total Vote %
Obama 9,373,334 50%
Clinton 8,674,779 46%
Others 726,095 4%

With Florida

Total Vote %
Obama 9,942,375 49%
Clinton 9,531,987 46%
Others 984,236 4%

With Florida and Michigan

Total Vote %
Obama 9,942,375 47%
Clinton 9,860,138 47%
Others 1,249,922 6%

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/obama_leads_in_the_total_popul.php
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Popular Vote Doesn't work for caucuses
Yes, Obama is ahead in the popular vote. However, the number of elected delegates is the best measure of who should get the nomination, because it treats caucus states equally to primary states. If we simply use popular vote, it discriminates against caucus states.
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. Facts.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Id tell her shes full of shit, but she doesnt let dissenting comments or even Pro-Obama comments
Here are your REAl numbers

Popular Vote 9,534,440 8,830,610
Popular Vote (w/FL) 10,110,654 9,701,596


This is from RCP, and Obama is up in both.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Yes thanks to rethug and independent votes. She is talking about Democrats
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Right, Obama has the lead in number of votes.
as this piece admits.

And i think that will increase as the days go on. It will probably go up to over a quarter million after this tuesday.

you can't count a state that both Clinton and Obama said did not count.

when obama comes in first in Texas, even hillary will know its all over.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. the should
but they are free, according to the rules, to vote how they like. I can guarantee you that if they do, the obama team will not sue them. I can also tell you that if Obama had signed doc claiming that he supports them he would never back pedal and change his mind later.


Hillary has already proven that she doesn't have the integrity to handle an issue like either of these. She is calculating and incompetent. At this point, only a morally bankrupt fool would support her and her actions.
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aquarius dawning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. very interesting numbers indeed. I can't imagine that Democrats would lie in the exit polls either.
I'm sure the media will ignore this though as they're infatuated with Obama.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well, what's to be done with Donna Brazile's threats if Obama doesn't get the nomination?
Edited on Sun Feb-17-08 09:05 PM by Tellurian
She seems to be intimating racial violence throughout the country as a consequence because: "he's the ONE!".. and he needs to be the nominee..
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. hey, that's our own Paul Lukasiak!
National treasure, he. Without him, the details of 9/11 would not have been preserved for posterity and research.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Pointless Dribble.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Based on exit polls??? Are you kidding me? Since the polls have
been so darn accurate, I guess we should use pretend numbers instead of actual votes cast. What a crock.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. How else do we separate Dem votes from pro-Obama rethugs and "independents"?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is a perfect example of why Hillary is not fit to be president.
There is nothing that she and her supporters won't do or say to put her in power. She is making the bush administration of 2000 look like rank ametures when it comes to distortions, lies and dirty tricks.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
45. Obama will do anything to win: He is 4:1 with Hill in buying the delegates.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Do those Super Tuesday numbers include caucuses?
Or is that just the total for primaries?
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. Exit polls are as reliable as Bush's word!
Give me a break.
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. Umm.. according to your own post - Obama is up 128,000 actual votes..
so how the heck have you twisted this to be for Clinton? Based on the number of DEMS ONLY in EXIT POLLS?

Well - I have news for you.. in a General Election, they're not going to give the presidency to the candidate who had more of their own party voting for them based on exit polls. They're going to award it to the CANDIDATE WITH THE MOST TOTAL, TALLIED VOTES.

Obama is winning in that catagory.. along with delegates.. most states won.. etc.

This primary isn't about who the Democrats want to win.. it's about who PEOPLE party aside want to win. Thank GOD people are finally able to see beyond party lines.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Yeah, when rethug votes are included. Is he running for the Dem nomination or the lieberman party?
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. I believe "rethugs" as well as Independents are still able to cast
votes in this country - as much as that seems to piss you off. And, if they want to vote for the most "liberal senator in the senate" you should applaud that. If they were voting for Hillary, that would be fine.. so that really seems to be the problem. Not that they vote for a democrat and "see the light" but that they don't vote for YOUR candidate.

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. This shows how reliant Obama is on rethug and "independent" votes to win the DEMOCRATIC primaries
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
46. Hint: you need those votes to win the GE too.
The OP and this idea that 'only Dem party members count' is so sad and pathetic. The President is president of the whole USA, not just the Democratic party. If you can't appeal to independents then you don't deserve to win.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
25. thud
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
26. Exit polls are not based on FACT. Actual vote count is
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. The actual count includes Republicans and independents who overwhelmingly vote for Obama
Odd they vote for the allegedly most "progressive" candidate...
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. That isn't true according to the press but I know that doesn't stop Taylor Marsh
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. kicking.
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is starting to get completely ridiculous, these contorted arguments...can't the HRC
supporters see this?
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. Taylor Marsh wants the nom to be based on exit polls?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. it's true: DEMOCRATS want hillary as the nominee. nt
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. This democrat doesn't
:hi:
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-17-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
41. And all this time I thought the point was to win delegates! (eom)
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
42. I am registered independent but have never voted republican in my life.
So I don't count?

It's like a broken record with the Hillary camp...
Caucuses don't count.
States with lots of African-Americans don't count.
Red states don't count.
And now the votes of independents don't count.

Unbelievable.

And, ugh, it will be independents who determine the presidency in November, by the way.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
43. Damn Mark Penn and Taylor Marsh must sent "the memo" - Independents don't count worth squat?
Damn, it must be wonderful to be so All-Powerful as HRC, that she's going to win EVERYTHING with Democratic PARTY PURITY?!?

Shameless twisting of facts. DAMN Shameless IMO, bullshit spin! :thumbsdown:
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Hill_YesWeWill Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
47. hmm exit polls,
seriously what do you want me to say to that? exit polls?!
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Hill_YesWeWill Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
48. Welcome to the #10 spot on my ignore list, you are in good company nt
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
49. Excellent argument.
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