Changing views on Florida delegates from the Hillary campaign.

[madfloridian]

I was never really against anyone in this primary season. We kind of liked Edwards, then decided to be neutral. We ended up voting for Obama because of Hillary's push in Florida to get the delegates. Florida was sanctioned, there are no delegates to seat.

Here is what her campaign said in September last year about the Florida sanctions.

Changing statements as the campaign changes

“We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process,” Patti Solis Doyle, the Clinton campaign manager, said in a statement.

Here is what Mark Penn said recently about those votes.

A large, broad, and diverse group of voters came out and voted for Hillary in Florida. She won women, men, and just about every age category. She won nearly 6 in 10 Latinos and nearly 3 in 10 African American voters.

The vote turned out to be far more than symbolic. Well over 1.5 million Democrats cast their ballots, more than twice the number of voters who came out to vote in the 2004 primary.

Most of the voters in Florida fully expect that their votes will not be wasted again -- they too have a voice at the convention, and Hillary has asked her delegates to support their being seated.

Here is what Simon Rosenberg, a fellow founder of the DLC in the late 80s had to say about this situation.

But there is a line in politics where tough and determined becomes craven and narcissistic, where advocacy becomes spin, and where integrity and principle is lost. I am concerned that this Florida gambit by the Clinton campaign is once again putting two of my political heroes too close - or perhaps over - that line. So that even if they win this incredible battle with Barack Obama they will end up doing so in a way that will make it hard for them to bring the Party back together, and to lead the nation to a new and better day.

I would love my vote to count. However the role Florida Democratic leaders played in this coup to pre-empt the importance of the smaller states and Super Tuesday...has shown they were more about their own desires and preferences. They were willing to take our votes away to get media attention for the winner here.

To ask or insist that the Florida delegates be seated is a direct challenge to the DNC, and it should not happen.

There is a line in the sand, Simon is right. When you cross it, you divide the party.

[skipos]

1. I live in MI. It is bullshit for us to be told our vote wouldn't count,

have the pretend election happen, and then have Hillary Inc. want to use our fake vote for her political gain (she didn't give two shits about us before it became clear that the coronation wasn't going to be as easy as she thought).

[madfloridian]

5. See my quote below. She says there is nothing unusual about this.

That is just wrong. It is very unusual.

[MonkeyFunk]

2. Count the votes and make the votes count!!

That's how democracy works.

[Yossariant]

3. "Count the votes!" "Don't count the votes!"

"She's my daughter!" (slap)

"She's my sister." (slap)

"She's my daughter." (slap)

"My sister, my daughter." (slap) (slap)

[madfloridian]

4. Ickes and Hillary views now on seating the delegates. Say it's fine now.

Harold Ickes called for the Florida delegates to count.

Harold Ickes: FL and MI should be seated.

He took off the hat he wore when he helped set and vote for the party rules, now he has on the hat of the Hillary campaign...and the rules are different. A statement from Hillary as well.

http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2008/02/18/ap/politics/d8urvvhg0.txt

Campaigning in Wisconsin after Ickes' remarks, Clinton echoed his contention that a suitable arrangement could be worked out to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations.

"The rules provide for a vote at the convention to seat contested delegations," she said. "This goes back to the 1940s in my memory. There is nothing unusual about this. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination until June. Usually it takes awhile to sort all this out. That's why there are rules. If there are contested delegations, the convention votes on it."

Ickes explained that his different position essentially is due to the different hats he wears as both a DNC member and a Clinton adviser in charge of delegate counting. Clinton won the primary vote in Michigan and Florida, and now she wants those votes to count.

"There's been no change," Ickes said. "I was not acting as an agent of Mrs. Clinton. We had promulgated rules and those rules said the timing provision ... provides for certain sanctions, automatic sanctions as a matter of fact, if a state such as Michigan or Florida violates those timing provisions."

"With respect to the stripping, I voted as a member of the Democratic National Committee. Those were our rules and I felt I had an obligation to enforce them," he said.