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The EXPERIENCE Mythbuster: Let's Set The Record Straight. Clinton has LESS Experience than Obama

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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:09 AM
Original message
The EXPERIENCE Mythbuster: Let's Set The Record Straight. Clinton has LESS Experience than Obama
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 09:31 AM by berni_mccoy
Hillary was first elected to the Senate in the year 2000. This was her first ELECTED position. Oh, you say she was the First Lady during Bill Clinton's Presidency, but I hear again and again and again that she isn't running on Bill's record. Ok, I'll give you that. And I'll even give you the year she spent working on her Healthcare plan, which she was unable to get past a Democratically controlled Congress. Her problem was inexperience, but also a failure of leadership. She did not demonstrate the problem effectively, she did not bring all parties to the table. She tried to ramrod this thing down the throat of Congress and the Republicans took this rare opportunity to thoroughly, absolutely destroyed her and the Democrats in Congress for it. We lost the Senate and the House because of it. After that, she returned in quiet humiliation to her first-lady duties. So I'll give her a year of experience for that. She learned a less that was painful, not just for her, but for the Democratic party. We all paid the price.

Now, add that year to her 8 years as a Senator, which she gained from a fairly easy campaign<1> with little-to-no opposition, and she's got 9 years of Experience as an elected politician. And what has she accomplished? There are some things she has done, but really, her work as well as many of her fellow Democrats was limited due to the strict, lock-step control of the Republicans. And since anything I say about her Senate career will be called biased by the Clinton supporters, I just point you to it. It isn't that spectacular. You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_career_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton.

So, Clinton, 8 years of experience as an elected politician, with 1 bonus year for a total of 9 years.

Now, let's look at Obama. He was elected to the Illinois State Legislature in 1996 and re-elected twice after that. He understands what it is like to run a successful campaign. Unlike Clinton, he also knows what it is like to lose one as he lost his bid for the U.S. House in 2000 against 4-term incumbent Bobby Rush. But he continued his work as a state Senator and he earned the respect of both Republican and Democratic representatives. He was able to pass powerful and controversial legislation that would open transparency in government and law enforcement. While at first, it was resisted, he was able to show the leadership to pass it and then, after it was implemented, was awarded for it by both law enforcement and legislative members alike. Perhaps this is why he was asked to give the keynote at the 2004 DNC and was successful in his 2004 run for the U.S. Senate. You can read more about his EXPERIENCE here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

LEADERSHIP. VISIONARY. Inspiring to those around him. Add these qualities to his 8 years as a state legislature and 4 years as a U.S. Senator, and you've got 12 successful, inspiring years as a great politician.

Obama brings not only new energy, enthusiasm and HOPE to the voters of this country, he also brings 12 years of SUCCESSFUL experience as an elected politician and great visionary for this country.

Clinton's 9 years of experience to Obama's 12 years. I think this myth of Clinton having more experience is officially busted.











<1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_New_York%2C_2000
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. .
:silly:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. ..
K/R




Peace
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah. Being a state rep voting Present while shredding all his records tops being a US Senator.
You guys are funny.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Why do Clintonians have to crap all over positive Obama threads?
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Berni, this is an anti-Clinton thread. Pay attention.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. You guys need help.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. You're doing the best you can.
Keep typing. No, really. Keep typing.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. are we still on this one?
http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=274863
Friday, January 25, 2008
'Present' votes defended by Ill. lawmakers
By Daniel C. Vock,
In most legislatures, lawmakers vote either “yes” or “no” on bills, but in Illinois, senators and representatives can hit a third button for a “present” vote. Now that quirk — not unique to Illinois — has sparked heated exchanges among Democrats vying for president.
----------------

But Obama’s former colleagues who still serve in the Illinois Capitol say that the attacks are off-base and that either Obama’s opponents don’t understand how things work in Springfield or they are deliberately distorting his record.


“To insinuate the ‘present’ vote means you’re indecisive, that you don’t have the courage to hold public office, that’s a stretch. But, it’s good politics,” said state Rep. Bill Black (R), a 22-year veteran of the House and his party’s floor leader.

In fact, he said, Illinois legislators get attacked for their “present” votes nearly every campaign season. “It’s always been a campaign gimmick, really. If you vote ‘present’ once in 23 years, somebody will bring it up.”

The “present” vote in Illinois is sometimes cast by state lawmakers with a conflict of interest who would rather not weigh in on an issue. Other times, members use the option to object to certain parts of a bill, even though they may agree with its overall purpose.

“The ‘present’ vote is used, especially by more thoughtful legislators, not as a means of avoiding taking a position on an issue, but as a means of signaling concerns about an issue,” said state Rep. John Fritchey (D), an Obama supporter.

The Land of Lincoln isn’t the only state where lawmakers can register their displeasure without actually voting against a bill. Colorado, Delaware, Massachusetts, Missouri and Texas also allow “present” votes or similar options in at least one chamber, according to a recent review of chamber rules by the National Conference of State Legislatures.


State Sen. John Cullerton (D) calls the “present” vote “a no vote with an explanation.” Legally, there’s not much difference between the two votes, but practically, it can let the sponsors or other legislators know of problems with the bill that should be corrected.

That’s not how U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) characterized it in a debate in Myrtle Beach, S.C., this week.

“In the Illinois state Senate, Senator Obama voted 130 times ‘present.’ That’s not ‘yes,’ that’s not ‘no.’ That’s ‘maybe,’” she said.
-----------------

Those remarks angered Cullerton, who is also backing Obama. He stressed that voting “present” is different than not voting at all.

“There’s not one Republican, there’s not one member in the history of the General Assembly who is still alive today who would criticize voting ‘present.’ There’s not one member of the General Assembly who’s alive today who has ever not voted ‘present,’” he said.

Fritchey, the House Democrat who chairs a committee on civil law, said he often used the “present” vote when he thought a bill had constitutional or other legal problems.

-------------------
Please read more:http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=274863

Contact Daniel C. Vock at dvock@stateline.org.

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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. Hmm... When Hillary fails, failure of leadership. When Obama fails, it's gaining experience. n/t
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Did I not give her credit for that?
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. Is "community organizer" code word for a junior document handler for property developers?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/353786,CST-NWS-rezquestions23.article
Sun-Times' questions, and Obama campaign's answers
The Sun-Times first sought to interview Sen. Barack Obama on March 14 about indicted businessman and longtime supporter Antoin "Tony" Rezko and a series of troubled low-income housing deals involving Rezko's company, Rezmar Corp. Obama's staff asked for written questions. It responded Sunday but left many questions unanswered and didn't directly address some other questions.

What follows are the Sun-Times' questions, asked in the preliminary stages of the newspaper's investigation, and the answers received in an e-mail from Robert Gibbs, communications director for the senator's presidential campaign:

Sun-Times question: Please explain what legal work the senator performed on each of those Rezmar projects. I have a copy of a legal bill showing Sen. Obama worked on the Central Woodlawn project. Please include the number of hours he spent on each Rezmar deal, the dates he worked on those deals, and to whom he reported at the firm, whether that was Allison Davis and/or William Micelli.

Obama campaign answer: Senator Obama worked on several projects in which the firm's principal client was a not-for-profit corporation. The projects entailed negotiations between the firm's primary not-for-profit client and the Rezmar-related entity that served as co-general partner or co-venturer of the not-for-profit.

Once the negotiations between the not-for-profit and Rezmar-related entity were completed, the firm represented the combined entity, usually an Illinois limited partnership or Illinois limited-liability company.

The Senator, relatively inexperienced in this kind of work, was assigned to tasks appropriate for a junior lawyer. These tasks would have included reviewing documents, collecting corporate organizational documents, and drafting corporate resolutions. The Senator reported primarily to former partner Allison Davis and occasionally to William Miceli


Q:
Please provide us the date the senator went to work for the Davis Miner Barnhill firm, and the date he left.

A: Approximately Feb. 1993-Oct. 2002.

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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. If you want to raise potential scandals, waste one of your own threads on that. I could do the same
and bring up Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate, etc, etc, etc. You can't stand that Obama has more experience so you simply try to change the subject to a bullshit story.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. 17 years of Obama's adult experience includes strong ties to Rezko./nt
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Really? You've got evidence of that? You better bring it Patrick Fitzgerald's attention
I'm sure he's missed all the information tying Obama to Rezko and would appreciate anything you have to offer. NOT.
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aquarius dawning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. Most Americans have already made up their minds on this issue from what I've seen
Hillary is about experience and Obama is about change.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
23. Hillary has to be about experience, because she sure as hell can't
claim change - and selling herself as the status quo candidate doesn't really sit well with the electorate.
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. Too True
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 09:39 AM by Khaotic
Sometimes you have to look beyond the Hillary experience hype ...



See the truth ...



And know when to let the bullshit run down the drain ...



SHE IS BUSTED!



Great job of pointing out the elected experience TRUTH!

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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. LOL... nice. I had forgotten about that book. :-)
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
12. Oh but she has 35 years of "experience"
since she's drafting off of Bill's record. It's ridiculous.
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Franks Wild Years Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Indeed.
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 09:57 AM by Franks Wild Years
The "I have x numbers of years super extra experience because I am married to a former President!" is really rather sad. Same with her "I'm tested and I'm ready (because I'm a certain someone's wife!)" offering. Her campaign to date has showed that she's very untested in serious competition for election and that she's certainly not ready or mature enough for such a lofty position, so desperate and low her tactics have become.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. The truth shall set us free
Kick
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. That's one of my favorite Obama quotes!
:rofl:
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Shouldn't your banner read
"Proud to be a Rove warrior" ?
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. No, it should read "Proud to be a Hillaryhack"
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. You are really grasping now. That poster was not implying Obama said it.
You are.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
14. thanks!
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. K&R.
Too many people think it's only part of his U.S. Senate term that's his sole experience. No. He has all that experience in Illinois' state senate, along with previous experience as a civil rights attorney and community organizer.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
27. People Are Really Buying This Crap?
:rofl:

My my how easy it is to get applause these days lol. Critical thinking? Nahhhhh, let's just all go woooohoooooo!! Great post!!!! You said somethin bad bout Hillary!!!!!

Sad.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. The facts are what they are. I'm sorry you have trouble facing them.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. What, exactly, do you take an exception to?
:shrug:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
31. She has experience - and experience coupled with bad decisions equals
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 02:29 PM by truedelphi
What, exactly?
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Exactly. Her poorly managed campaign has shown that her experience doesn't add up
If she's falling apart against a friendly contender, she will not survive the RW talking-point destruction machine. Obama has been using the kid-gloves with her.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I'm not sure he even has the kid gloves approach in mind
Though it is certainly one possibility.

Michelle Obama said last night on Larry King that when she is in front of an audience, her focus is connecting with the saudience.

And I think with a focus like that, obviously shared with her husband, both Obamas are aware that the last thing that middle income American could care about is their sniping at Hillary or Hillary sniping at them.

At this point, We the People want the candidates' passion and their solutions, not their defensive posturing or obnoxious attacks.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. Running unopposed and vs Alan Keyes shows Obama knows how to win an election?
:rofl:
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Avoid the issue. Clinton is RUNNING on her Experience. Which is FAR LESS than Obama's. Give it up
already.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I consider 6 years in the US senate to be greater than 8 years in the IL legislature.
And when you look at their most recent terms in office they are about even considering how many votes Obama has missed.

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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. You would be underestimating the significance of that experience then. Your choice.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
37. I guess it shows Obama knows how to oil Daley's corrupt Chicago Machine
You don't have to be a great politician to be a successful Democratic pol on the South Side of Chicago.

You just have to have good friends like Tony Rezko.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Or a husband like Bill Clinton to pave the way for an opponent-less Senate run.
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
39. Her "35 Years Of Experience" Are A Joke nt
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Exactly. That is the BIGGEST Lie of her campaign.
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