Is Hillary going to decry Texas primary rules now as well?

[sfam]

So would Hillary have been harping on voter disenfranchisement in caucuses if she had won them instead of Barack? Now we have a similar situation in Texas, where the number of delegates per district are apportioned based on the turnout in the 2004 and 2006 election totals. In practice, this means that predominantly African American districts will receive twice as many delegates as many Hispanic districts with similar population sizes. Apparently, blacks turned out to vote in large numbers in those elections while Hispanics stayed home.

So its VERY possible that in a close race, Hillary wins the popular vote but loses the delegate vote.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/17/AR2008021702461_pf.html

Additionally, Texas has a caucus thing which happens at 7 pm, right after the polls close. This of course disenfranchises all the workers working late shifts.

And yet again, we on the national scene, are now ready to offer a fairness judgment over a state party's decision making process. So again, as the election nears and we hear yet more mock anger calls for voter disenfranchisement (I say mock anger because if the reverse had been true and Hispanics had gotten an overly large proportion of the delegates, does anyone think Hillary would be complaining?), we'll again be left wondering whether about the spin coming out from the Clinton campaign that the Democratic party has apparently stacked the deck against her by subverting the will of the voters in about half the states to ensure Hillary loses.

We also have to wonder whether any of this outrage persists after the election. If Hillary ends up losing, will she be devoting a decent percentage of her time traveling to all these offending states to get them to change their rules?

[babylonsister]

1. I think Hill and co. are scrambling, trying to figure out what to do.

They certainly seem ill-informed and unprepared:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x125768

[eleny]

2. Or it's fake outrage now that Obama is gettng the African American vote

The vote that the Clinton campaign earlier thought it had sewn up.

[sfam]

3. Agreed. This is a fall-out from the Super Tuesday victory strategy...

They really didn't plan for after that day. Sort of strange, really, if you think about it. I guess being ready on DAY ONE means you have a plan for how things "should" go, but go belly up if things change.

[rodeodance]

5. ** Henry Cisneros: Clinton supporters don't need to divide to conquer

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Mrs. Clinton has a big heart and a good heart.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4597095#4597095
4597095, Mrs. Clinton has a big heart and a good heart.
Posted by bigtree on Thu Feb-14-08 08:05 PM

Henry Cisneros: Clinton supporters don't need to divide to conquer

03:52 PM CST on Thursday, February 14, 2008

One of the noteworthy dimensions of this year's Democratic primaries has been the loyalty shown to Hillary Clinton's candidacy by Democrats who supported President Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996, especially female voters, blue-collar families and Latinos.

. . . Despite the tendencies of the media pundits to speculate about divisive reasons to explain the preferences of Hillary Clinton voters over Sen. Barack Obama, Clinton supporters have made the following points:

•Mrs. Clinton is ready to take on the difficult problems confronting the country on her first day in office. She will be able to go from the inaugural platform to the Oval Office and begin to tackle the challenges of our economy and the war in Iraq, while starting to work on her stated priorities of universal health care and investments in education. Voters tell me that she is smart and prepared and that they trust that she is primed for action.

•Clinton voters seem to feel instinctively what I have observed personally for the many years I have known her: In addition to being smart, she is extremely well-organized and managerially competent to address the problems our country confronts. As a Cabinet officer in Mr. Clinton's administration, I watched her run meetings to produce outcomes. She is a no-nonsense person who breaks problems down into their component parts and systematically solves them.

As first lady, she represented the United States abroad in dozens of foreign countries, meeting world leaders and learning the intricacies of international relations. She doesn't make many mistakes – and when she does, she learns from them. At a time when the stakes in our world are so high, voters appreciate her battle-tested, sure-handed qualities.

•Her supporters feel a sense of loyalty to a person who contributed significantly to some of the best years our country has enjoyed in its modern history. She was part of a team that produced the largest economic expansion in American history with lower unemployment rates, lower poverty rates, higher business formations, a record homeownership rate, higher levels of school performance and even a narrowing in the income gap.

Female voters in particular add to that fond remembrance a sense that the unique experiences of a person who has been a mother, a daughter, a wife and a sister can bring fresh perspectives and distinctive contributions to the nation's highest office.

•Voters tell me they recognize that Mrs. Clinton has a big heart and a good heart. Yes, her commitment to the public good is driven by her intellect and her experience. But her inner drive comes from a desire to help people, to advance the country and to make a meaningful difference in our world. Since her early years working in the Children's Defense Fund to her years in Arkansas working to expand public health clinics for seniors to her work as a U.S. senator on children's health insurance, she has shown she is determined to reach out to families.

Unfortunately, in the heat of a political battle, passions rise, and it seems necessary to draw hateful divisions between candidates or to denigrate one worthy candidate at the expense of another. Hillary Clinton supporters shouldn't be drawn into that game. There is no need. We have solid reasons to support her based on her public service record of a lifetime.


full article by Henry Cisneros: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-cisneros_15edi.State.Edition1.1e3a2d5.html

[sfam]

7. How does this post relate to the OP?

Just wondering...'cause if it does I've missed the connection.

[rodeodance]

10. I am adding some balance--round out the discussion. Cheers

[sfam]

12. Are you also going to talk about how Whale Watching in Alaska is cool?

'cause that would relate about as much as your post did.

And it is BTW - the Inside Passage is a trip everyone should make, preferably with lots of whale watching excursions.

[rodeodance]

14. of course not--my post is about TX--very much related to your OP.

[sfam]

15. So discussing the Dallas Cowboys is on topic?

Seriously, what in your post relates to the issue I posed? Nothing that I can see, and nothing that you've responded to.

[babylonsister]

13. It doesn't, but that doesn't matter with that poster. Carry on. nt

[SKKY]

21. So much for all that "Ready from day one." nonsense, huh?

[sfam]

26. Day One hasn't happened yet...she's not ready until then...

Obama is apparently ready PRIOR to day one. :)

[SKKY]

28. Oh yea, silly me.

[rodeodance]

4. [Hillary] Clinton laid groundwork in this area decades ago (San Antonio, TX)-

Clinton laid groundwork in this area decades ago (San Antonio, TX)-

Web Posted: 02/18/2008 12:34 AM CST

Greg Jefferson
Express-News

In 1972, Hillary Clinton left Texas in far better shape than did Sen. George McGovern.

He got trounced in the Lone Star state in his campaign against President Nixon. But Clinton — then Hillary Rodham, a Yale law student — came away with ties to Hispanic voters that she now sees as crucial to her campaign for Texas' March 4 presidential primary.

She registered voters here and in the Rio Grande Valley, putting her on the doorsteps of numerous Latinos and in touch with local politicos and union organizers, for McGovern's campaign. Bill Clinton, her then-boyfriend, was organizing the state for McGovern.

When the registration period ended, she helped guide the San Antonio campaign in the last few weeks before the election.

Sen. Clinton, state Rep. José Menéndez and state Sen. Leticia Van de Putte — both San Antonio Democrats — hammered home that experience during her rally Wednesday night in St. Mary's University's sports arena. …..

"We used to say there's not a belly laugh in her," said Peters, a McGovern volunteer who worked for the AFL-CIO's political education arm in San Antonio. "Hillary was very, very serious. She studied the issues deeply, and she really did care about improving people's lives."

[HeraldSquare212]

6. Didn't one of her slogans used to be that she would be a hands-on president?

Seems like she misses a lot of important details.

[TeamJordan23]

8. Clintons will wake up on March 5th and realize they cannot catch Obama mathematically. nm

[pampango]

9. As evidenced in Michigan and Florida she is in favor of empowering the state parties

to do whatever they want to do, apparently. National rules don't seem to matter.

[sfam]

11. I think the issue is she supports whatever helps her win...

Not too unusual for a candidate, really. But again, if Hillary loses and STILL makes it a personal crusade to try to galvanize support to change this stuff after the election, she'll be proving me wrong.

[rodeodance]

16. I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton

Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4526958#4526958
4526958, I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Posted by bigtree on Sun Feb-10-08 05:39 PM

if the SuperDelegates were apportioned as he said he wants them . . .


Obama said superdelegates should follow the wishes of the voters.

"My strong belief is that if we end up with the most states and the most pledged delegates from the most voters in the country, that it would be problematic for the political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voter," he said.

When it was noted that Sen. Ted Kennedy is one of his superdelegate supporters, even though voters handed Massachusetts to Clinton on Super Tuesday, Obama said, "Well, I mean, we can make arguments back and forth on this."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/09/2008-02-09_hillary_clinton_and_barack_obama_battle_.html

[rodeodance]

17. as I have said before: Obama will do anything to win

When it was noted that Sen. Ted Kennedy is one of his superdelegate supporters, even though voters handed Massachusetts to Clinton on Super Tuesday, Obama said, "Well, I mean, we can make arguments back and forth on this."

[sfam]

18. Gosh, it must be great knowing that you have a candidate above all this nonsense...nt

[ctdem200]

20. BFD

Do you ever stop your crying?

[GoldieAZ49]

19. of course she will, when she looses TX n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

22. No matter who wins or loses

no matter which candidate benefits or not, caucuses suck.

[sfam]

23. Well again, is this a story that lasts after the primaries?

Will there really be pressure put on Iowa, for instance, for them to switch to a primary? Do you think Hillary will spearhead this effort?

[MonkeyFunk]

24. I doubt it'll change

some states seem to like their undemocratic systems.

And Clinton has no control over how states run their primaries.

[sfam]

25. I'm guessing she could have figured this out prior to the primaries...

Its the whole mock outrage stuff that just looks silly. Although I suppose this pales next to the argument that over half the states votes really shouldn't matter in terms of selecting a nominee. The "caucuses disenfranchise people" spin is far better than the "these states don't matter" spin.

It would be nice to know that she actually believed this, and felt strongly enough to do something about it though, instead of it just being the "reason of the moment" for why she's losing.

[MonkeyFunk]

27. What outrage has she shown?

Do you really think she's the first politician to minimize losses and trump up wins?

The mock outrage here is on the part of people who act like this is their first election.

[tammywammy]

29. "System Worries Clinton Backers"

System Worries Clinton Backers
Delegates Won May Not Reflect Popular Vote

By Matthew Mosk
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 18, 2008; Page A06

Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton are worried that convoluted delegate rules in Texas could water down the impact of strong support for her among Hispanic voters there, creating a new obstacle for her in the must-win presidential primary contest.

Several top Clinton strategists and fundraisers became alarmed after learning of the state's unusual provisions during a closed-door strategy meeting this month, according to one person who attended.

-snip-

The disparity in delegate distribution is just one of the unusual aspects of Texas's complex system for apportioning delegates. The scheme has been in use for two decades but is coming under increased scrutiny because the March 4 presidential contest is the first in years that gives the state a potentially decisive voice in choosing the party's nominee.

Under rules described in the 37-page Texas delegate selection plan, two-thirds of the state's 228 delegates will be chosen based on the vote in each of 31 state Senate districts. The remaining delegates will be chosen based in part on the outcome of caucuses held on election night after the polls close.
-snip-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/17/AR2008021702461.html?hpid=moreheadlines



My problem with all of this is, why is the Clinton campaign just now finding out about the Texas primary/caucus. We've had this for quite awhile now and it's not like it's a hidden or new plan. To me it's showing a lack of foresight by the Clinton campaign.