Reminder: Hillary Clinton voted AGAINST banning cluster bombing of civilian areas.

[TheWraith]

These are the little tiny bomblets which stick around and blow people's arms off months or years later. 98% of all cluster bomb casualties are civilians, not combatants. In some countries like Vietnam they're still losing 300 civilians a year to unexploded cluster bombs from 40 years ago.

Senate Amendment 4882, attached to a defense appropriations bill in 2006, would have banned the use of cluster bombs in or near civilian-inhabited areas. Hillary Clinton sided with the Republicans in defeating this ban, because, apparently, blowing up children makes you look tough to the voters.

[Bread and Circus]

1. Obama voted FOR that ban as did MOST DEMS at the time of that vote.

Hillary sided with the Republicans.

[mathewsleep]

2. ha!

[Bread and Circus]

7. I've posted this information here before and Clinton DU'ers literally have told

me that Clinton made the right call.

It is quite astounding how much reason people can dispel once they decided on a candidate.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. how can people justify cluster bombs

[Bread and Circus]

16. They told me it was an "invaluable tool" in our military arsenal to which I replied:

In civilian areas?

But this is just the tip of the iceberg. People do not realize what a hawk Clinton has been throughout her career. The scholarly letters at www.fpif.org begin to highlight some of it.

[TheWraith]

19. There's really very little value to us in cluster bombs these days.

They're mostly designed as an area-denial weapon, to make it extremely dangerous for enemy troops to cross or occupy a given area. However, that doesn't apply to irregular warfare, which is all we really engage in these days.

[tabasco]

41. That's correct.

I would consider it a war crime to use this weapon in an area with a lot of civilians.

I was an infantry commander and planner at the brigade level.

The bomblets are supposed to time-detonate but there is a high failure rate and many remain live.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. I thought the shock and awe would not lead to civilian deaths?

surely the USA should pride itself on NOT producing civilian deaths ie collateral damage?

[rodeodance]

61. POT MEETS KETTLE.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Other senators voted "yea" first?

Yup, more plagiarism.

:crazy:

[karynnj]

12. huh? The Senate record doesn't say who voted first

Not to mention "Obama" is not early in the roll call.

[goodgd_yall]

39. Biden and Dodd voted Nay too

I wonder what their reasoning was?

[Vinca]

3. Another case of very poor judgement. nt

[Mojambo]

5. One of the least defensible votes in Hillary's entire career.

A real black mark, imo.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

13. ITA

[grantcart]

6. I think that she might be agreeable to using them in Texas now.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. I will never forgive her for voting for cluster bombs!

[Lisa0825]

9. K&R

:mad:

[HeraldSquare212]

10. Don't forget Southern Lebanon, a more recent example.

[TheWraith]

14. Yes, an estimated 16 dead and 180+ injured just since the end of the Israeli bombing in 2006.

There's thought to be as many as one million unexploded bomblets in southern Lebanon.

[Divernan]

77. UN estimates 1MILLION unexploded "bomblets" in region w/ 650,000 people

They are stuck in the branches of olive trees and the broad leaves of banana trees. They are on rooftops, mixed in with rubble and littered across fields, farms, driveways, roads and outside schools. As of 9/28/06, they had severely wounded 109 people and killed 18 others. The most recent estimate I've seen reports over 260 civilians (including women and children of course) killed.

The following information was provided back in 2006:

http://gimmetruth.wordpress.com/2006/10/06
Muhammad Hassan Sultan, a slender brown-haired 12-year-old, became a postwar casualty when the shrapnel from a cluster bomb cut into his head and neck. He was from Sawane, a hillside village with a panoramic view of terraced olive farms and rolling hills. Muhammad was sitting on a hip-high wall, watching a bulldozer clear rubble, when the machine bumped into a tree.

A flash of a second later he was fatally injured when a cluster bomblet dropped from the branches. “I took Muhammad to the hospital in my car, but he was already dead,” said Yousef Ftouni, a resident of the village.

The entire village was littered with the bomblets, and as Mr. Ftouni recounted Muhammad’s death, the Lebanese Army worked its way through an olive grove, blowing up unexploded munitions in a painfully slow process of clearance.

Cluster bombs are legal if aimed at military targets and are very effective, military experts say. Nonetheless, Israel has been heavily criticized by United Nations officials, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch for using cluster bombs, because they are difficult to focus exclusively on military targets. ISRAEL WAS ALSO CRITICIZED BECAUSE IT FIRED MOST OF ITS CLUSTER BOMBS IN THE LAST DAYS OF THE WAR, WHEN THE UNITED NATIONS WAS NEGOTIATING A RESOLUTION TO END THE CONFLICT.

Officials calculate that if they are lucky, and money from international donors does not run out, it will take 15 months to clear the area. There are now about 300 Lebanese Army soldiers and 30 other clearance teams, each of up to 30 experts, working on the problem of unexploded bomblets.

The United Nations Mine Action Coordination Center in southern Lebanon recorded 745 locations across the south where unexploded bombs had been found. Of the million estimated to be scattered around, so far 4,500 have been disposed of, according to the center.

“Our priority at the moment is to clean houses, main roads and gardens so that the displaced people can return to their villages,” said Col. Mohammad Fahmy, head of the national mine clearing office. “The next stage will be cleaning agricultural lands.”

In Lebanon there are two explanations of why Israel unleashed cluster bombs at the end of the war: to inflict as much damage as possible on Hezbollah before withdrawing, or to litter the south with unexploded cluster bombs as a strategy to keep people from returning right away.

The United States has sold cluster bombs to Israel in the past and says it is investigating whether Israel’s use of cluster bombs in its war with Hezbollah violated a secret agreement that restricted when they could be used.

The final days of the war — a conflict that began when Hezbollah launched rockets from Lebanon into northern Israel and sent militiamen across the border to capture Israeli soldiers — were marked by a huge Israeli offensive. Israel hoped its final push would, in part, help force the Security Council to adopt a tougher resolution on Hezbollah than appeared to be taking shape.

Israel has said it leafleted areas before bombing and provided Lebanon with maps of potential cluster bomb locations to help with the clearing process. United Nations officials in Lebanon say the maps are useless.

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz published an article on Sept. 12 anonymously quoting the head of a rocket unit in Lebanon who was critical of the decision to use cluster bombs. “What we did was insane and monstrous; we covered entire towns in cluster bombs,” Haaretz quoted the commander as saying.

Repeated efforts to get Israeli officials to explain the rationale behind the use of the bombs have proved fruitless, with spokesmen referring all queries to short official statements arguing that everything done conformed with international law.

In Lebanon the problem of the unexploded munitions is magnified by the desire to return to villages and lives in a region that is effectively booby-trapped. People want to begin rebuilding and harvest their crops. In some cases they have tried to clear the bomblets themselves, and some people have begun charging a small fee to clear away bombs — a practice that officials have discouraged as dangerous.

But the people are desperate.

“If I lost the season for olives and the wheat, I have no money for the winter,”‘ said Rida Noureddine, 54, who farms a small patch of land on the main road in the village of Kherbet Salem. There was a small black object at the entrance to his farm, and he thought it was a cluster bomb.

“I feel as if someone has tied my arms, or is holding me by my neck, suffocating me because this land is my soul,” he said.

The bomblets, about the size of a D battery, can be packed into bombs, missiles or artillery shells. When the delivery system detonates, the bomblets spread like buckshot across a large area, making them difficult to aim with precision. A fact sheet issued by the Mine Action Coordination Center says cluster bombs have an official failure rate of 15 percent.

That means that 15 percent of the bomblets remain as hazards. According to the fact sheet, the failure rate in this war is estimated to be around 40 percent. “We estimate there are one million,” said Dalya Farran, the community liaison officer of the mine action center.

Ms. Farran has worked at the center for nearly three years. It was set up in 2000 to help deal with the mines and unexploded ordnance left behind after the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon and from other wars.

After this war, Ms. Farran said, there are two types of cluster bomb fragments across the south. The most commonly found type is known as M42, a deceptively small device resembling a light socket.

She said a large percentage of the unexploded bomblets were made in America, while some were produced in Israel. Each one has a white tail dangling off the back, like the tail of a kite. As they fall to the ground, the tail spins and unscrews the firing pin.

When the device hits, the front end fires a huge slug while the casing blasts apart into a spray of deadly metal fragments. When they fail to detonate they cling to the ground, and with their white tails look deceptively like toys, so children are often those who are injured.

“This is what they are living with every day,” said Simon Lovell, a supervisor with one of the clearance teams as he looked at five unexploded bomblets poking out of the soft, rocky soil of the Hussein family farm.

Across the street, Hussein Muhammad, 48, at home with his wife and four children, waited for the clearance team. His olive trees were heavy with fruit, but he could not tend to the harvest.

“I feel that the land has become my enemy,” he said. “It represents a danger to my life and my kids’ lives.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About this entry
You’re currently reading “Lebanon: “Bomblets” is a Nice Word for Cluster Bombs Courtesy of Israel’s Disdain for Human Life,” an entry on Cienfuegos

Published: 10.6.06 / 2pm
Category: Diary
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[K Gardner]

15. Hillary, a bit hawkish.. see below

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0309-23.htm

For example, she opposes the international treaty to ban land mines. She voted against the Feinstein-Leahy amendment last September restricting U.S. exports of cluster bombs to countries that use them against civilian-populated areas. She opposes restrictions on U.S. arms transfers and police training to governments that engage in gross and systematic human rights abuses, such as Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Israel, Pakistan, Cameroon and Chad, to name only a few. She insists upon continuing unconditional funding for the Iraq war and has called for dramatic increases in Bush’s already bloated military budget. She has challenged the credibility of Amnesty International and other human rights groups that criticize policies of the United States and its allies.

Mrs. Clinton has been one of the Senate’s most outspoken critics of the United Nations, even serving as the featured speaker at rallies outside U.N. headquarters in July 2004 and last summer to denounce the world body. She voted to authorize the U.S. invasion of Iraq despite its being a clear violation of the U.N. Charter and in July 2004 falsely accused the United Nations of not taking a stand against terrorism when it has opposed U.S. policy. She was one of the most prominent critics of the International Court of Justice for its landmark 2004 advisory ruling that the Fourth Geneva Conventions on the Laws of War is legally binding on all signatory nations. She condemned the United Nations’ judicial arm for challenging the legality of Israel’s separation barrier in the occupied West Bank and sponsored a Senate resolution “urging no further action by the United Nations to delay or prevent the construction of the security fence.”

Mrs. Clinton has shown little regard for the danger from proliferation of nuclear weapons, not only opposing the enforcement of U.N. Security Council resolutions challenging Pakistan, Israel and India’s nuclear weapons programs but supporting the delivery of nuclear-capable missiles and jet fighters to these countries. This past fall she voted to suspend important restrictions on U.S. nuclear cooperation with countries that violate the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

At the same time, she insists that the prospect of Iran’s developing nuclear weapons “must be unacceptable to the entire world,” since challenging the nuclear monopoly of the United States and its allies in the region would somehow “shake the foundation of global security to its very core.” Last year, she accused the Bush administration of not taking the threat of a nuclear Iran seriously enough, criticized the administration for allowing European nations to take the lead in pursuing a diplomatic solution and insisted that the United States should make it clear that military options were still being actively considered.

[Leopolds Ghost]

31. Deserves its own thread.

[Bread and Circus]

33. I've made a few with links to specific fpif articles, it's awesome that people are keeping this

in the forefront because its the real stuff that matters.

[randr]

17. Correct me if I am wrong

but I think she has never supported the International Ban on Land Mines either.

[TheWraith]

18. She specifically opposes the land mine ban, actually. nt

[zabet]

20. Biden and Dodd voted against banning them too.

This is a very multi-layered issue that began
when the 'dud rate' of the munitions was was running
up to 20% from some suppliers. The US was/is buying
from a supplier with a dud rate of around 5%. The person
that initiated this bill, whose spouse is in the defense
industry, wanted just to only purchase from suppliers with
1% guaranteed dud rate, since there were none, this would
have opened the purchase contract up. When this proposal
was talked about, it met with no acceptance to even warrant
further talks. Then the Bill was introduced after this
attempt, if the contract cannot be opened, well we just
won't allow the US to buy them from anyone.
To remove cluster bombs at this point, when reports - not
only intelligence but also from the boots on the ground,
show that the Iraqi forces intentionally sacrifice their
own people by intentionally staging troops and equipment
in densely civilian areas, often next to schools, hospitals,
etc., would have endangered the troops more when they are already
lacking in protective equipment.

"Significant collateral damage incidents resulted from Iraqi forces using civilian shields, feigning surrender, commingling with the civilian population, and misusing emergency relief vehicles or hospitals to conduct military operations (Figures 3-5). (217) Iraqi forces transferred ammunition from military depots to smaller bunkers in civilian neighborhoods, schools, cultural sites, religious sites and other civilian facilities to avoid attack (Figures 6-9). (218) Anti-aircraft weapons were placed on the roof of the Ministry of Information (Figure 10) (219) and the Iraqi 51 st Warning and Control Regiment relocated to a mosque before hostilities. (220) Perfidy, deception and attempts to acquire sanctuary in civilian communities was commonplace for Iraqi forces:



To sum up, we are now observing an activity that has
been going on for over 10 years. The Iraqis have regularly
placed air defense missile systems and associated equipment in
and around civilian areas, including parks, mosques, hospitals,
hotels, crowded shopping districts, and even in cemeteries.
They have positioned rocket launchers next to soccer stadiums
that are in active use, and they've parked operational
surface-to-air missile systems in civilian industrial areas.
This is a well-organized, centrally managed effort, and its
objectives are patently clear: preserve Iraq's military
capabilities at any price, even though it means placing innocent
civilians and Iraq's cultural and religious heritage at risk. (221)
Iraqi forces were in many cases very well integrated with the civilian community, even to the point of commingling with civilians on buses during combat. (222) Iraqi civilians regularly reported seeing Iraqi troops out of uniform. One witness expressed concern that the practice resulted in numerous civilian casualties. Dr. Abd al-Sayyid, director of al-Nasiriya General Hospital, said "Fedayeen were among the civilian homes.... he problem was with the Iraqi troops and Fedayeen dressed as civilians." (223) Iraqi witnesses in al-Najaf and in the al-Yarmuk neighborhood of Baghdad reported similar practice among Iraqi forces. (224) Almost every member of the Coalition interviewed by HRW commented on the practice. One senior officer observed, "By March 24 , we were already seeing a large number of irregulars out of uniform. It was clearly a combination of systematic and conscious ." (225) "



Anyone who wishes to argue this point first needs to familiarize
them with the Laws Of Armed Conflict and the studies of collateral
damage and what is acceptable by law.

"The principle of military necessity requires that there be some military advantage gained from destruction of a target. (72) In United States v. List at the Nuremberg trials, the tribunal defined necessity: (73)

Military necessity permits a belligerent, subject to the laws of
war, to apply any amount and kind of force to compel the
complete submission of the enemy with the least possible
expenditure of time, life, and money.... It permits the
destruction of life of armed enemies and other persons whose
destruction is incidentally unavoidable by the armed conflicts of
the war; it allows the capturing of armed enemies and others of
peculiar danger, but does not permit the killing of innocent
inhabitants for purposes of revenge or the satisfaction of a lust to
kill. The destruction of property to be lawful must be imperatively
demanded by the necessities of war. Destruction as an end in itself
is a violation of international law. There must be some reasonable
connection between the destruction of property and the
overcoming of the enemy forces. (74) "

If the enemey intentionally stages in civilian areas, it is reasonable
to expect collateral damage in civilian deaths.

Read about LOAC and collateral damage here, from the Air Force Law Review
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-133368631.html

Bottom line, you do not make a soldier, our soldier, more vulnerable in
an ongoing armed conflict/hostile occupation. If you take away cluster bombs
which are dropped to knock out these embedded forces, read the article, they
have to be identified as such, before a strike using clusterbombs can be
authorized, if you take them away...you take away something that prevents
losses and casualties on our side.


Hate the war but, it is our guys over there, we stand up for them first. I
may be biased as I volunteer and donate to our local VFW.

I trust Biden and Dodd far more than anyone else who voted on this issue. They
voted against banning them too.

[TheWraith]

21. All of which justifies using them on civilians... how?

See, last time I checked, the Iraqi Army hasn't been around for 5 years, and in any event I don't exactly see how cluster bombs are supposed to magically distinguish between killing civilians and killing enemy combatants, any more or less than any other kind of bomb. Putting military emplacements in civilian sectors may have explained the need to strike near civilians in the past. How about now?

[zabet]

22. It does not justify it, just as

no point you can make can
justify putting our soldiers
at greater risk.

This is a point that can be
argued for both sides. Again,
to even use them goes through
a pretty strict set of criteria
and collateral damage is always
tried to be kept at a minimum.

Regardless of the circumstances,
how they got there, the fact remains,
those soldiers are American children
defending our country. Do not tell
me they do not come first when it comes
to safety and concern. If Obama and
his supporters highlight this position,
putting the troops second, you won't
have to worry about the Hillary camp
launching attacks. The swiftboaters
will have a field day with this.

[TheWraith]

24. You're strawman arguing. Show how not using cluster bombs on civilians puts soldiers at risk.

Just saying that it's necessary doesn't make it so. I could say that it was necessary to use nukes in Iraq, but that wouldn't make it so.

[zabet]

30. Cluster bombs are dropped on verified

targets that just may happen to be
in civilian areas. We put soldiers
on foot patrols in this area without
taking out the verified 'nest' with
a cluster bomb drop, you leave them
sitting ducks for the embedded enemy.

The only strawman I see here is the
one from the Wizard of Oz. You are
tripping down the yellow brick road
on LSD if you think for one minute these
cluster bombs are randomly and intentionally
dropped on civilians. Again, read the
LOAC article I linked to, it will explain
the procedure that is gone through before
a cluster bomb can even be deployed.
The civilians are collateral damage.

War is ugly, collateral damage in loss of
civilian life is an ugly reality of war.

[tabasco]

44. I was in the infantry for ten years and commanded troops in combat

and let me be the first one to tell you - - you are completely wrong.

Using this weapon in a civilian area is a war crime. Your disregard for civilian life makes this combat vet puke.

Using this weapon in an urban area doesn't do squat to "protect troops."

In fact, it endangers infantry as they have to clear these areas now covered with bomblets, many of which do not time-detonate.

[zabet]

51. It HAS happened. I have no disregard for civilian life.

One has to look at the issue pragmatically as it
is an ugly reality. Do not twist nor cherry pick
my words to assume you know what I think or feel.
This issue can and was argued on the house floor
both ways. I neither condone nor condemn the vote.
I am not a military general though I have talked to
one personally about this issue and realize there is
far more to it than meets the average person's eye.

From the link on Laws of Armed Conflict...

Another significant issue that emerged from OAF is the use of cluster munitions. Seven incidents of collateral damage resulted in 90-150 civilian deaths from cluster bombs used by the U.S. and Britain. The most serious incident involved the mid-day attack on Nis airfield, killing fourteen civilians and injuring twenty-eight. (188) Cluster bomb sub-munitions fell in three widely separated areas; near the Pathology building of the Nis Medical Center in southeast Nis, in the town center near the Nis University Rector's Office and central city market place, and a bus station near the Nis Fortress and the "12 February" Health Center. NATO confirmed the attack on Nis airfield

[Recursion]

46. Got to call BS along with Leopolds Ghost there

1 tour in Iraq, patrolled so many times I lost even a rough count. Clustered munitions should never have been allowed in this environment. They endanger our troops (IIRC 2 Marines have died from them) and they certainly endanger civilians. They were part of our terror campaign that should never have been waged (who the fuck said "Hey, let's terrify the population and then they'll support us"?)

[zabet]

52. Read above. nt

[TheWraith]

79. None of which is a justification for using cluster bombs.

Even if you have to take out a military or paramilitary target in a civilian population center, there's no reason to use a cluster bomb to do it. That's like using a shotgun as a sniper weapon: it's insanely imprecise and isn't that effective against your target. What you're talking about is a job for close air support. Cluster bombs are specifically designed as an area denial weapon, to kill or injure anyone in a given area and make it unusable.

[Leopolds Ghost]

36. If you are a religious person, innocent American children do NOT come before Iraqi children

Sorry.

[karynnj]

38. The amendment had to do with SELLING cluster bombs to

other countries. The issue was not our troops - the problem was that Israel had just used them.

[goodgd_yall]

50. Thanks

I just read the amendment and you're correct.

[LordJFT]

42. we should drop cluster bombs on kids to protect our soldiers?

you seriously sound worse than most mccain supporters i know

[Recursion]

48. Worse yet (as if that were possible), they're a danger to soldiers

We didn't always have accurate knowledge of when and where they were dropped, and the UXO (unexploded ordnance) rate was much higher than we anticipated, meaning units patrolling through zones supposedly cleared by them were taking casualties from the munitions themselves.

Ban the fuckers.

[zabet]

53. Cherry pick much?

Never said that.

[LordJFT]

60. then what did you mean when you said this?

Regardless of the circumstances,
how they got there, the fact remains,
those soldiers are American children
defending our country. Do not tell
me they do not come first when it comes
to safety and concern.

[zabet]

62. Tell me....if it comes down to my child

or someone elses, I will take mine.
When you have a loved one who has been
over there 3 times and is currently now
in the VA psych unit due to a suicide
attempt less than 4 days ago, maybe you
will understand why I say that our soldiers
come first. We sent them there and won't
even take care of them when they come home.
As it stands without explanation, it is a
rhetorical statement. As an
Obama supporter you should be well schooled
on rhetorical comments and how they are not
to be taken literally.

[goodgd_yall]

47. This is why no war should be gone into cavalierly

Either way people are getting killed--without cluster bombs or with cluster bombs. The difference is only WHO is getting killed. War is "Hell" because there is no way to fight one that is humane.

[Leopolds Ghost]

34. I'm sorry, but... Fuck this defense of murder

You just said that cluster bombing civilian areas are all the more needed BECAUSE the enemy is positioning their targets in "off-limits" civilian areas.

As Robert MacNamara said

(one of the architects of the US Bombing campaign in both WWII and Vietnam)

CLUSTER BOMBING AND "MILITARY NECESSITY" BASED "ANY AMOUNT OF FORCE
TO COMPEL THE ABSOLUTE SUBMISSION OF THE ENEMY"

thru air power,

WERE TACTICS FIRST EMPLOYED BY THE ** FASCISTS **
IN SPAIN AND GERMANY AND JAPAN.

They were condemned by the West as a WAR CRIME --

When FRANCO did it and again when HITLER did it to LONDON and Tojo did it to NANKING --

HITLER's *ONLY* WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED WAR CRIME
during much of the war period --

UNTIL CURTIS LEMAY DID IT, TOO.

<i>"What we did (Cluster Bombing of civilian areas) is a war crime -- it's only accepted because we won the war."

-- Robert MacNamara</i>

You would have killed Kurt Vonnegut, and that little Vietnamese kid too.

[zabet]

55. Show where I said it was needed.

Cherry picking, the original argument started
when I showed how the repukes would use this against
Obama by spinning it with the info out there. You
ignored that part. Thanks for reading it all and
offering discussion and not attacks. :eyes:

[goodgd_yall]

43. Thanks for the info

I wanted to know what Biden, Dodd, and Clinton were thinking to justifying voting "Nay." When I see not just one, but several Democrats I respect voting "the wrong way" as I see it, I always wonder if there is more to the issue then I know of. I can understand if the vote apparently was one to protect troops.

[zabet]

56. Thank you.

There is far more to this than the average person can see. On issues such as this,
I trust Biden's judgement above all. He voted against the ban and it made me take a
second look.

[Danger Mouse]

45. Sorry, but that doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Murder is still murder.

[zabet]

57. That is why we should be going after the BFEE

for starting all this crap to begin with.
Send'em to the Hague.

[Danger Mouse]

58. That I can agree with.

Shock and awe my ass. :puke:

[still_one]

69. Well that isn't going to happen unless we take control in 2008, and even then I doubt it /nt

[Unbowed]

23. These are the senators who voted for the ban.

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---30

Note: not one (R) voted for the ban.

Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)


http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00232#position

[karynnj]

37. Notice that many of the Democratic veterans voted against it

Including Kerry, Harkin, Akaka, Reed, and Kennedy. (My apologies if I missed any)

These are people who know what cluster bombs mean - it was also a brave vote for anyone planning to run for President - as Obama and Kerry were. Israel had just used cluster bombs on Lebanon.

[meow mix]

65. even feinstein... hillarys the worst now.

:mad:

[still_one]

73. feinstein introduced it. /nt

[meow mix]

74. wow

didnt figure that!!!

[Unbowed]

75. Yup. And most of the most progressive Democrats at that. n/t

[still_one]

68. Feinstein introduced this, and that says volumes if she found a problem with it

with her moderate to conservative tendencies, SHE recognized the inhumanity of it. This tells me there is something very wrong with many of the people who represent us

Not one frickn republican voted for it, including chaffee. What is wrong with this country?

[Unbowed]

76. Too many assholes, IMHO.

:)

[still_one]

78. excellent way to express it. I could not have said it better /nt

[riverwalker]

25. Princess Hillary is no Diana

You can help here to clean up after Hillary's bombs and provide prosthetic limbs for children:

Clear Path International
http://www.cpi.org/index.php

[mckeown1128]

26. My god... I forgot all about this...

unbelievable.

[dailykoff]

27. This what Hillary does for women and children.

Bombs and bloodshed are her bread and butter.

[Leopolds Ghost]

29. It was considered a WAR CRIME to area-bomb civilian areas when HITLER did it.

Not until General Curtis LeMay ordered Robert MacNamara to copy Hitler's tactics,

And bomb the living shit out of the Japanese,

Did it suddenly become OK.

Hillary supporters must like Gen. Curtis LeMay,
the inventor of modern air massacre of civilians.

ROBERT MACNAMARA SAID WHAT WE DID
(meaning him as well, under Curtis LeMay) IS A WAR CRIME.

HE SAID WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER LEGITIMIZED HITLER AND TOJO'S TACTICS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_fog_of_war

Hillary and other supporters of so-called "modern" air war
side with the Axis approach to modern warfare.

[Alexander]

32. Amazingly, some wacko Shillbot DUers have defended her vote.

Killing civilians is apparently okay as long as you're for Hillary.

:puke:

[AtomicKitten]

35. ClintonCo: Winning hearts and minds, one body at a time.

[meow mix]

40. sick, what is wrong with her

:mad:

[still_one]

70. not only her, EVERY republican, and about half the Democrats

how depressing

[gmudem]

49. How disgusting

Just more evidence of Clinton doing a great job representing me and other New Yorkers. :puke: The only good reason to want her to be president is so that we can get a real New Yorker as a Senator.

[TexasObserver]

54. It's one of her most shameful votes, and most indefensible.

[Imagevision]

59. Cut Hillary some slack, it's probably one of those things she never reads...

[maximusveritas]

63. Horrible. This is a big deal. We can put an end to this if we elect

the right President. Hopefully this will come up in the debates.

[meow mix]

64. but hillbots love her policies so much..

wth

[meow mix]

66. kick

:mad:

[still_one]

67. If that is true, that is a big deal. Why did it take so long to come out?

[FrenchieCat]

71. Cause they didn't want you to know?

[still_one]

72. Thank goodness for the internet, and DU /nt

[TheWraith]

80. It's always been out there, it just hasn't been talked about much.

Contrary to the Clinton campaign's assertions, Obama has been running an extremely positive campaign and wouldn't take something like this to whack her over the head. And it's easier for the media to look at the horserace rather than the policies.