Long time Clinton backer @ Arkansas Times says "its over" for Hillary

[DJ13]

Arkansas Blog


It's over

I'd be happy to be wrong. For a variety of reasons, I'd prefer Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic presidential nominee.

But it's not going to happen. She'll be clobbered in Wisconsin tomorrow. She might run ahead, even win, the popular vote in Texas, but the delegate count will be close, probably pro-Obama. The media talk, the popular mood, the times -- they all work for Obama.

Finally, there's been the Clinton campaign. Fighting, seriously, today about Obama's borrowing of rhetoric from a friend is a sign of desperation. Obama is derivative. So is everyone. And Bill Clinton -- who knew? -- has proved to be a negative.

The media megaphone can't be underestimated.

Some of it is crazy. Some of it unfair. So is life.

Obama will win the nomination. Polls today say he'll beat McCain everywhere -- in every key state and nationally. Those same polls said the same thing about Hillary Clinton's sure dominance a few months ago.

For the record.

http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2008/02/its_over.aspx

[PretzelWarrior]

1. I just kicked and recommended

people need to see the light. The sooner the better.

[Captain Hilts]

3. No. She's ahead or tied in three major states and FL and MI have not been resolved. nt

[PretzelWarrior]

9. if you believe the FLA/MICH thing...you're deluded.

there is NO WAY we will stand for essentially having Obama do battle with one hand tied behind his back....have it come out so close, and then allow such underhanded tactics to give it to Clinton. WON"T HAPPEN WHILE I'M ALIVE.

The S.S. Clinton is taking on water and sinking fast.

[stahbrett]

13. FL and MI were stripped of all delegates - how is that not resolved?

There is no way that FL and MI get delegates based on the invalid primary election results. If that is what the Clinton campaign is holding out hope for, they're going to be disappointed.

Look at the polling in Texas - Clinton was REALLY far ahead. Now look at the polls after Obama had time to actually campaign there (with 2 weeks still to go). That same thing would be very possible (I'd say likely) in MI and FL with valid elections with actual campaigning.

[earthlover]

17. Let me remind you....Hillary has to win BIG in OH AND TX or she loses...

Not just win, but win big! Get it yet?

[Pab Sungenis]

67. By 15%.

She needs to win them both 57-43, and that's assuming she pulls even in Wisconsin tonight.

[dysfunctional press]

28. FL and MI were resolved before they even voted- the delegates won't count.

get over it, already.

[Skarbrowe]

61. Get over it already! Said like I true republican of 2000. nt

[ORDem]

68. It's not like FL and MI were stripped by the Goopers, it was the

Dem Party itself that did the stripping, and even Hillary (when it seemed to her advantage) supported it.

[dysfunctional press]

77. well this is a lot like 2000 in one respect...

florida is still incompetent when it comes to elections.

[marshall]

78. And the voters KNEW their votes didn't count before they voted

Many of them crossed over and voted in the Republican primary in order to influence that outcome. Had they thought their votes in the Democratic primary would count they would probably have acted differently.

Maybe Hillary can finance a new primary in Florida and Michigan in order to resolve it. I'm not sure if that's legal, but it would at least not be too early.

[Skarbrowe]

79. You mean people re-registered..and I don't think we have

same day registration, from a Democrat to Republican to vote in their primary? Could be done I suppose, but we have closed primaries. You can only vote what is on your voters registration card. Hillary did so well in Florida because Republicans couldn't mess around with voting for Obama as a vote against Hillary. I think that might be going on in a lot of these open primary, same day registration states. We will never know.

Still, I think Obama's movement is real. He's got this thing pretty much wrapped up. I've just got to learn to look past the things about him that make me uncomfortable and try and forget that the media handed this to him on a silver platter. It might all work out for the very best.

[marshall]

80. I was thinking of Michigan

It would be awkward in Florida to happen, but Michigan is like Texas. My Republican colleagues at work know the nomination for McCain is tied up and all they talk about is who would be easier to beat and they are going to vote accordingly in the Democratic primary. Since I believe the other candidates (besides Hillary) took their names off the primary in Michigan it was also a foregone conclusion (at least to everyone besides Hillary, including candidates and voters) that the Democratic primary in Michigan wasn't going to have an effect.

[BearSquirrel2]

37. FL and MI have been resolved ...

The official resolution is that FL and MI will not be seated. Some new official word will be needed in order to seat them after the states broke party rules.

In order to FORCE their seating, Hillary will need the majority of delegates, in which case she will not need them. The BEST thing to do would be to call caucuses and elect new viable delegates. Then maybe the party can hash out a 16 year primary schedule as to when primaries can be held early that gives EVERYONE a chance.

[Leopolds Ghost]

40. Divide the Country up into Regions.

IA and NH, NV and SC go first.

Then you have regional primaries week after week until the nomination is decided.

The order of regional primaries is determined based on a rotating algorithm
weighted so big states go to the middle and end of the process.

Big states and small states get grouped in separate contests so no state or region is ignored.

For example:

Week

1 IA, NH

2 NV, SC

(in no particular order)

3 Northern Tier ME, VT + MN, WI

4 Mississippi Delta LA, ARK, MS

5 New England MA, RI, CT

6 Southwest NM, AZ, UT

7 Southeast AL, GA

8 Central CO, KS, NB, OK

9 Northwest/North Carolina WA, OR + NC

10 Plains/Mountain ID, MT, WY, ND, SD

11 Upper South KY, TN + IN

12 Big Heartland IL + MO

13 Texas and Florida TX + FL

14 Hawaii + Overseas AK, HI, PR, VI, etc.

15 Big Bicoastal NY + CA

16 Mid-Atlantic PA, NJ, DE

17 Great Lakes OH + MI

18 Potomac MD, VA, WV, DC

[Diane R]

69. Sorry, but no. Iowa and N.H. go to the end of the line. It's their turn to be last...forever.

[BearSquirrel2]

81. 4 groupings

I think you have to put things in a reasonable time frame.

You put each state in one of four groupings. Yes, mix up small/big Ag/Man/Information states in some reasonable way. Within each grouping, again split it up into fours. Let them bid on where they would like to start, resolve any discrepancies via chance.

Each 4 year cycle, both groupings would progress. Those in the back go to the front. This would be the "FIRST" day they are allowed to hold their primary. If they are content with "going last" they can keep their primary at the back.

I agree with an adjacent poster. The states that go "first" now should be sent to the back of the line for the next primary cycle. They'll come back up to the front in 16 years. After that they can bicker about any changes they would like to make.

Anyone who violates the order should have their delegates count for 1/2 of their normal value. That way there will be no more fights about disenfranchisement when people violate order. Your votes still count, they're just muted.

[IronLionZion]

47. Um, of course they'll be seated, they just won't decide the presidential nomination

The DNC is not going to keep them out of the convention. That's ridiculous.

There's no way in hell the rules for those two states can be changed after fact. Candidates were not on the ballot and many voters chose not to attend.

[tripitaka]

51. will FL count for overall popular vote total? or other yardsticks?

It's not just the delegates at issue, DNC also have to decide if FL and MI count for the metrics used to broker the nomination.

[dsharp88]

39. Dem voters in FL and MI were told their votes wouldn't count..

so how can you now count them? The voters' voice wouldn't be heard by seating them now because most of the voters whose voice need to be heard haven't yet spoken in those states.

[anigbrowl]

65. Frankly I don't think FL and MI will regain Clinton the lead anyway

They provide a net gain of 57 delegates for Clinton (I've done the math here on DU 7 or 8 times, if you want to look it up).

Once Obama's lead (including superdelegates) is greater than 60, then seating MI and FL still won't win the nomination for Hillary. I support Obama, so I may be biased, but I do believe that he can open up and maintain such a lead. And if he succeeds in that, then the delegates can seated, the Clinton campaign has nothing to complain about, the voters aren't disenfranchised, and Obama is still the leading candidate.

Think about this: endlessly focusing on these two delegations (by fans of either candidate) means that the posters think their preferred candidate's lead is going to be so narrow that MI and FL will make all the difference. Reality is that it probably won't.

[harun]

48. She has polled ahead in this whole race. High turnout and new voters has rendered the

polls useless this whole primary season.

[CorpGovActivist]

83. .

[tandem5]

2. nah

[TexasObserver]

4. k&r for the truth of it

[SoxFan]

5. HAH! Max Brantley bailed on her!

[apocalypsehow]

6. K & R

:kick:

[stillrockin]

7. The people want what the people want.

[Kat 333]

76. Do you mean like ...

in the last two elections ?

[cbayer]

8. Painful piece, isn't it?

Although I don't agree with the process on many levels, it is the process we currently live by. If he is right, it will be a very sad day for Clinton and all of her supporters.

[Scurrilous]

10. K & R

:thumbsup:

[grantcart]

11. good article and the comments from people - presumably from Arkansas

even better


Here is an example

I've gone from supporting Hillary, to Obama, back to Hillary but loathing having Bill back in the picture, to finally, after learning of how the Clintons sold us all down the river with the clemency for the Puerto Rican liberation front or whatever it is called that was widely reported on again this week, to finally going over to Obama for good.

I think the Clintons can be so dark in pursuit of power and they crossed some very disturning lines on that.

Good for Obama.

[Double T]

12. That's a NEW one. Reverse psychology obamaganda.

What a load of laughable crap.

[Finite]

34. Obamaganda?

haha, I love that word!

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. It's a good one.

:evilgrin:

[customerserviceguy]

75. Expect

the repukes to use it over and over.

[KoKo]

14. According to a Great Speech she gave in Wisconsin this afternoon...it ain't over...

Here's a running thread of what she said in the Speech...as fast as I could watch and type..

------

Small Business on the Internet....like E-Bay...emphasis..to Global Marketplace....She want's farming to be close to local...when she buys an apple in New York State..she wants to know it's not grown in China...Greenhouses in states with Short Growing Season...Methane from Dairy Farms to help our Carbon Usage Problem...and Wind, Solar, Retrofitting our Aging Buildings with energy efficient windows and insulation to save money...Re-building our Infrastructure which is crumbling..."so you don't have to hold your breath when driving over a bridge for fear it will collapse!"

Give Medicare the right to negotiate for Low Drug Prices. Cut out "subsidies that Bush gave to HMO's which is a waste...and put that into a National Health System. She says "Sick People are being Discriminated Against....because they are thrown off their insurance plans.

She says...Get rid of the Oil and Gas subsidies because the companies had them when they "needed them...but they DON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE... and Take that Money and put it into Renewable Engergies that will save our country from Imported Oil Dependency."

She wants "low interest College Loans for Students that they can work off if they do Community Service for a few years like Teaching...Health Care.

She wants to provide DENTAL CARE along with HEALTH CARE! She's proposing the Congressional Plan and limit on the Premium you have to pay for Health Care. She's saying it's "Private Health Insurance Options" and REGULATE the Insurance Companies....

She says "We need to Reign in the Special Interests" and give the money back to the Middle Class. Grow Jobs for Clean Energy and Infrastructure Repair. Stop the EXPORTING OF JOBS...TAKE AWAY THE INCENTIVES for JOBS TO LEAVE! She's GOING to RAISE TAXES ON WALL STREET CEO'S.

Restore Confidence and Competence in our Government... She says HALLIBURTON and SPECIAL CONTRACTS HAVE REAPED BENEFITS ...but they WILL NOT ANYMORE in her ADMINISTRATION...

She wants to Restore our Moral Leadership in the World and she will start Immmediately to Repair this Damage that Bush and Cheney have done and the World will breathe a sigh of relief when Bush/Cheney leave."

She says she wants to withdraw troops starting within 60 days...but she wants to do it carefully....but she will immediately start a plan. Iraqi Government has to take responsibility. "When we get the troops home...let's make sure we take Care of their Health needs."

She says "FORCE SHOULD BE USED AS A LAST RESORT .....NOT...A FIRST RESORT.....

Alot of work needs to be done...she says "We haven't been called to do anything...George Bush didn't ask us to do anything." "Americans want to feel PRIDE again." "We need to think about the Next Generation." "Hire Me for this Hard Job..."
------------

[earthlover]

18. "FORCE SHOULD BE USED AS A LAST RESORT .....NOT...A FIRST RESORT....."

So what was the first resort in iraq under the iwr that Hillary voted FOR?

[Alexander]

22. If she believed that, she would've voted for the Levin Amendment.

I agree with the OP. The Clinton campaign needs the biggest Hail Mary in the history of politics to win this one now. And all they're doing is fumbling.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

24. why is she wasting time giving speeches? they are just words!

You think she wouldn't be wasting her time giving speeches since she is so crititical of other people giving speeches.

[JanusAscending]

26. Words, just words.........

and "WORDS ARE CHEAP", thus says Hillary Clinton!!

[Diane R]

70. I guess consistency isn't her strong suit.

[quantass]

15. Excellent Article..

[C_U_L8R]

16. Some of it is deserved. nt

[NJmaverick]

19. The sooner the Clintons and their supporters accept defeat

The better it will be for the nation and the Democratic party. I am sure they are upset. They felt, and it wasn't unreasonable, that they she was a qualified candidate that deserved the nomination. The problem is there was better candidate. A special candidate, the type that only comes along every few decades. This candidate offers more that she offered and people like that. Time to accept reality and start planning an end game. No point in destroying the party and the nominee, just because you didn't get your way.

[RiverStone]

20. well said...

And I empathize how damn tough it will be for them to let go of her candidacy.

But reality will speak for itself on March 5th,

Then we can move on to help Obama beat the puke machine.

[D23MIURG23]

41. It'll sink in eventually.

Its a long time until August. Depending on how March 4 goes they may be out of denial by April.

[tripitaka]

49. THIS

[AntiFascist]

21. There you go....and R n/t

[K Gardner]

23. K&R

[Mme. Defarge]

25. If you're toast,

you're toast.

[Oilwellian]

60. I could have sworn...

I saw a picture of the big bang on my toast this morning. :D

[Johnny__Motown]

27. K&R

[maximusveritas]

29. Max is a good guy

He probably would have already been an Obama supporter if not for his close ties to the Clintons.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Thank God!

[H8fascistcons]

45. HI Frenchie, Question...

Greetings; you're oviously an Obama supporter, in the general election I will reluctantly vote for Obama, Hillary was not an option but I do have some grave concerns. Ask D.U.ers six months ago who they want for president and 80% would have said Dennis K. or John E. I am quite curious why all the excitement about what most progressives viewed as their third choice? I don't think Obama is evil but I do think he is a solid middle of the road republican, just not Fascist like the Bush crime family. I think the media pushed Americans into the least two progressive candidates, Obama and Hillary and everybody seems thrilled with that, any thoughts? I pray Obama proves me wrong and turns out to be another FDR but my BS meter says otherwise, no damage but only small moderate change especially in healthcare and going after our Fascist corporate media, what am I missing?

Regards.....

[RandomKoolzip]

31. Oh well.

If this is true, congratulations to Obama (yay!), and my sympathies to Clinton's supporters, who put up a hell of a fight - and congratulations to Hillary Clinton, who would have made a fine president, but who has, by this extraordinary campaign, already acheived for American women something wonderful and groundbreaking. I hope other female candidates come forward, get elected, and help make America a less sexist place.

But then again, it's not over yet, is it?

[pjt7]

33. Hillary can still do ton's for this country if she shows

she can put her ego in check & support the D party going foward.

She always seemed a little more logical & "classy" than Bill & I hope she proves it to the whole party.

[susankh4]

35. No, It's not over....

and as someone who would like to see an Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama ticket in November... I will encourage Ms. Clinton to fight the good fight.

The closer these two candidates come to a "draw" the more leverage we will have to demand a joint ticket.

Hillary will take Ohio by pretty wide margins. That is how things seem on the ground here, now. Texas I can't say. And... I think Obama had best not count Wisconsin in his court yet.

[Voice for Peace]

32. "I believe in coercive diplomacy." Clinton & Obama on Tavis Smiley last night

I found her kind of spooky:

What can that mean? Isn't "coercive diplomacy" an oxymoron? Tavis looked somewhat alarmed.

[From The Left]

36. Yippppppeeeeeeeeeee

Well, the Borg Queen will never make a concession speech. She'll challenge the votes in the courts before she admits she lost.

[Araxen]

38. HEY OBAMA PEOPLE

Let's win Wisconsin TONIGHT! And worry about the rest tomorrow! First things first!

[From The Left]

46. Wisconsin & Hawaii

Obama's on his way to victory in November!

[Tatiana]

42. Loved this comment:

First comes denial: "He won't win. She has 100% name recognition and Bill on her side."

Then anger: "Who is this upstart? Two years in the Senate and he thinks it's his turn?"

Then bargaining: "Clinton/Obama '08!" (DBI is still in this stage)

Then depression: "If only the media weren't so sexist. They think Obama walks on water."

Finally, acceptance.

[mtnsnake]

43. The blogger's best point was that the polls don't mean squat that are saying Obama would beat McCain

Polls today say he'll beat McCain everywhere -- in every key state and nationally. Those same polls said the same thing about Hillary Clinton's sure dominance a few months ago.

In other words, I hate to break the news to you, but the instant that Obama gets the nomination...if he does get it...the polls that are favoring Barack now will vanish quicker than you can say "Present!"

[tripitaka]

50. changes nothing. electability isn't the reason why he's winning

[Broadslidin]

44. Did the D.L.C. actually announce yesterday: Now Hiring Clinton Convention Claqueurs....

:yoiks: :nuke:

[creeksneakers2]

52. A couple more weeks won't hurt

Hillary isn't the type to give up while there is still a chance, even if its a small one. And it will give us a couple of weeks to watch Obama get the front runner treatment and see how he holds up.

[redqueen]

53. I think so, too.

Fundraising, momentum... and these attacks are all backfiring.

[yardwork]

54. I've come to pretty much the same conclusion

Obama has the momentum. I hope that he maintains it through November if he is the nominee. We've got to come together as a party and win back the White House.

[anitar1]

66. If Hiliary concedes, then that means I don't have to vote for a

candidate in May, since Obama will have won the primary. I think many will not feel obligated to vote in that case.Seems as if with the new rules in voting that many states no longer count.We are looking at our future.

[defendandprotect]

56. Right . .. so the rush to tie it all up with a bow now leaves us with one weak candidate . . !!!

and a year to go to the election --- !!!

How dumb are we --- ???

[defendandprotect]

57. misplaced

misplaced

[defendandprotect]

58. Where are the threads at DU demanding that Clinton step down . . . ???

And here it is before our very eyes . . .

the rush to tie it all up with a bow has backfired again ---

and will leave Democrats with one weak candidate --- an entire year before the election --- !!!

You would have been much better off to DELAY primaries, DELAY departures and have

Kucinich and Edwards around to speak about real democracy and economic democracy -- !!!

And, still, no mention of a Plan B at DU . . . ??????


You really think you're going to get Medicare extended to everyone by Obama . . . Clinton?
Or, a shiny new -- insurance friendly -- plan that will cover everyone --- without destroying
Medicare --- ???

Wake up, folks --- !!!

[cloud75]

59. If the media stays out of it and let everyone vote then let's see what

the delegate count is before we says "it's over for Hillary"

[Iktomiwicasa]

62. K&R

:kick:

[happygoluckytoyou]

63. PLEASE READ THIS AND PASS IT ALONG

i wanted edwards to win.... really wanted him to be the president....

SHIT HAPPENS

i wanted obama ahead of clinton... but promised myself that i would support the winner

AND I WILL

probably OBAMA.... not my first choice but a damn good second...

THE REPUBLICANS UNITE FOR ELECTIONS... THEY ALWAYS DO... THE HOLY ROLLERS WILL SUPPORT THE OLD WHITE GUY BECAUSE HE IS OLD... AND WHITE... AND A GUY...
THE WOULD HAVE BACKED ROMNEY OR ANY OF THE OLD WHITE GUYS... ITS AN OLD WHITE GUY THING...

LOOK FOR THE MEDIA TO START AN "I HATE OBAMA" GROUP FROM WITHIN THE HILLARY CAMPAIGN...

OH... COME ON... YOU KNOW THEY WILL
THE BUSH FAMILY WILL PROBABLY START A RUMOR THAT OBAMA HAD A BLACK BABY (HAHAHA)

for the democrats to win, and win EVERYWHERE, whichever candidate LOSES has to step up and endorse the winner...AND ENDORSE BIG TIME....
"My fellow americans... we ran a good campaign... I AM NOW GOING ON THE ROAD TO SUPPORT XXXX... I URGE ALL OF YOU TO DO THE SAME!!!"

let us see if all of the 8 candidates who "fell by the roadside" have the guts, the strength, and the pride to back the winner BIGTIME"

[Thrill]

64. I still contend that the Clinton's will steal this from Obama

Thats been my position for over a month.

Its hard to beat their establishment. Too many favors owed.

[Diane R]

72. I've felt that in my gut, too. I think that's why were so desperate for the Fat Lady to sing.

[No Blood for Hubris]

71. Sayin' it don't make it so, dude. Just sayin'. Opera aint over till

the fat lady sings.


See you at the convention, supporters of the timid centrist lacking plans but wreathed in hope and glory.

[L0oniX]

73. K&R ...WOOT

[shenmue]

74. This is what Obama supporters think of as proof.

An editorial. Ever notice that most Obama supporters' posts consists of either their own personal opinions as claims of fact, or somebody's blog, or an editorial from a newspaper? Ever notice how seriously lacking they are in quotes from the candidates themselves, citations of surveys or studies, or any other factual data from the real world?

:shrug:

This is what Howard Dean types do when there's no Howard Dean. They love a demagogue who offers them promises and hot air. Clinton, on the other hand, only has a proven record in the Senate, and what's that good for? :sarcasm: You know fad lovers don't go for facts. :eyes:

[GOTV]

82. Actually, I haven't noticed that as a trait particular to Obama supporters n/t