How did Hillary ever allow this to become a referendum on Hope vs Pragmatism?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

What a losing frame for her.

I think she should have attempted to rise to Obama's inspirational level while staying focused on goal achievement. Now, she's cast in the role of the practical mother who tells the son who wants to be a rock star "That's nice dear - but you'll never make it. Do you know the odds against you? Go work at the Post Office and get a nice pension."

20 years down the road, the son may idly rue "Hey, my Mom was right", but to what avail? The advice did not apply due to the mind set and goals of the recipient.

The mother should have said, - "That's great dear! But give yourself a set amount of time to make it, say five years, and if you don't, why not consider the Post Office?" In that sense the mother is both supportive AND practical, but she didn't have to knock down the son's goals in the process.

Who was it that said, "When others say things cannot be done, I ask why not?" Obama's the "Why not?" candidate while Hillary has cast herself in the role of dream crusher who tells you why things cannot be done.

Which is the better message? Which speaks to more people?

[tekisui]

1. Because she cannot inspire. Not like Obama.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

3. I agree, but I said she should have attempted to be more inspirational anyway

I can't believe that she let herself be drawn into a position AGAINST "Hope" "Inspiration" "Change" "Dream" "Vision" and all those adjectives that are commonly associated with Obama now.

What is the list of adjectives that Hillary has glued to herself at the moment? Personally, I think -Pragmatism" "Reality" "Political" "Lobbyists" when I think of Hillary.

She's become the anti-inspiration candidate. My whole point is just that I thought she was SMARTER than to be drawn into such a losing position for her.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. It really is a mess.

I've always thought that the smartest way for her to handle Obama would have been to embrace his campaign, embrace the new people it was bringing in, etc. That old adage about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, you know. She had an opportunity after Iowa and New Hampshire to reach out to a lot of the new people who were getting interested in politics because of Obama, and she missed it. I kind of shook my head when she made the King / LBJ comparison. I'm sitting there thinking "You just compared yourself to LBJ. Regardless of what you said about King, you just effectively gave Obama the opportunity to portray himself as JFK to your LBJ." And that, more or less, has been the media narrative since then, and Clinton had a hand in creating it. This has been incredibly damaging to her, I think. Going negative on Obama is just the latest example of this wrong-headed approach. All it's doing is turning more people off to Hillary. The damage to Obama has been, I think, fairly minimal.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

10. Exactly!

She should have "borrowed" the good stuff and let herself grow into a more inspirational candidate in the meantime.

[Perry Logan]

2. Or Pragmatism vs. Plagiarism.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. I don't think Plagiarism resonates with the geneneral public

as much as Hillary supporters would like it to. My personal slant is that the whole concept of "just words" applied to famous quotes is just way too obvious and that probably hundreds if not thousands of people came up with similar "talking points" on their own when Hillary started trying to define the difference between words and actions.

Also, having seen Joe Biden being beaten to death with that club and yet still remaining a respected Senator, takes out some of the sting it may have had in years past.

My question is - why did she go down that road in the first place? She could have made many other choices.

[Perry Logan]

7. Well, let's hope not.

[lisa58]

5. She really didn't think she would face anyone of consequence...

...by the time she realized she was in a race, he was running and she was flat-footed.

To agree with your point, I think Margaret Carlson said it best on MTP on Sunday. That Hillary looked like a scolding parent telling us we couldn't have the guy we fell in love with.

She's fighting for Wisconsin, which she wasn't going to do - we'll see how that turns out tonight.

[oasis]

6. Hillary never realized how dumbed down America has become. (eom)

[adabfree]

9. What she didn't expect was for people to see through her...and Billy Boys' BS

She's as transparent as Saran Wrap!

[CorpGovActivist]

14. "She's as transparent as Saran Wrap!" And half as useful.

[adabfree]

17. true! lol

[CorpGovActivist]

20. And I'm all thumbs with that devil's invention, so that's pretty useless.

[theHandpuppet]

15. I'll vote for that explanation

This Presidential Election has been provided by American Idol Productions.

[NMMNG]

35. Yes indeed

Substance doesn't matter. Packaging and presentation are the only important things now.

[CorpGovActivist]

11. She is Lisa Simpson at her green-eyed worst, when someone better steals her thunder.

[Patsy Stone]

12. If I were Hillary

I would take Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson out to the woodshed and beat the crap out of them.

They are the worst strategists I've ever seen. I used to think that honor belonged to Bob Shrum, but these two have caused me to reconsider that decision.

[CorpGovActivist]

25. I just gigglesnorted, at the image. I believe you would.

I believe you would.

:toast:

[Patsy Stone]

33. And I'd start

by sticking that ugly ass sweater in Howard Wolfson's mouth.

:toast:

[CorpGovActivist]

34. OK...I think I almost woke Patrick...again!

:toast:

[Bread and Circus]

13. Hillary lost even the pragmatism argument when she ran her campaign into the ground...

[CorpGovActivist]

24. Are you saying she can't even make the trains run on time? Not even a good COO, let alone CEO?

[TexasObserver]

16. More crap from the Queen of Craptastic tactics. She's vacuous and petty.

Let's hope today makes it 10 in a row, so she doesn't think this kind of petty negativism will work.

She lies every time she opens her mouth.

[CorpGovActivist]

26. Sorry, Mr. DeMille. That *is* her good side. She's ready for her close-up...

... whether her supporters like it or not.

- Dave

[Barack_America]

18. Because she wasn't prepared to get her ass handed to her in Iowa.

She underestimated the Iowan electorate, assuming her big name and inevitable status exempted her from the grassroots organization focus of the other candidates. Ever since Iowa, her campaign has been searching an overarching message. They hadn't planned on this. So their message ended up being a reaction to Obama's own message.

[CorpGovActivist]

27. But, but, but... EXPERIENCE, dammit! n/t

[Barack_America]

30. Not so much, it would seem.

And yet we are to believe that her campaign is the best suited to take on McCain? Ha!

[CorpGovActivist]

32. Clash of the Curmudgeons! n/t

[paulk]

19. because she has been running a campaign aimed at winning

the general election.

Obama has been running to win the nomination with a message aimed at the (relatively) small coalition that can win it for him.


This will cause him problems if he is the nominee, IMHO.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. You mean it's a problem that Obama has actually been running a campaign...

targeted at his present goal, because he realises he has to win the nomination FIRST?

And Hillary hasn't been running a campaign aimed at securing the nomination, because she thought she wouldn't have to...

it seems like Obama's campaign advisers may have more intelligence in adapting their strategy for their current situation. Which doesn't seem like a problem for Obama; quite the contrary, it seems like a problem for Hillary, whose campaign has no strategy at all and a string of tactical blunders.

[paulk]

23. Obama's strategy in the primaries will cause him problems

in the general election. If his strategy for winning the nomination causes him to lose in the GE, how is that a good campaign?

This is, after all, about winning in November.

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. But...

Hillary's strategy in the primaries may cost her the nomination. I fail to see how a successful strategy is somehow inferior to an uinsuccessful one; it seems fallacious to presume that a candidate who cannot win in primaries would do so in a general election, in any case. The logic of your argument escapes me.

[Armstead]

21. This has been a constant theme in the Democratic Party for years

It has underlied many issue, including the War in Iraq, the DLC, behavior of Congress etc.

This campaign seems to have crystallized it in especially vivid form.

[scheming daemons]

28. In 1992... Clinton ran as the "Man from Hope"

....now Obama has taken on that mantle.

NOW, the Clintons are running on a campaign of "Hope is foolish".

How ironic.



Is it any wonder why they are losing?

[CorpGovActivist]

29. Hoisted by their own...