So you want a President McCain.

[Neshanic]

How this happened, how we got to this place in the process does not matter any more. Maybe like some others here I was always a Gore person, but then when it was finally made clear he would not go, I went to Edwards. He was the one that impressed me the most. Then he dropped out, and I support Hilary. Not that I have any great affection for her, but when compared to Obama, it's reather obvious. I would like someone that has the experience in slapping some republicans around, and not a reach across the aisle kinda guy.

So now we will get what we so richly deserve. President McCain. The puzzled look on Obamists faces when a "moderate republican" will be elected will explain it all. How there are so many republicans that are so tired of a religious nuts will happily vote for him, how many independents will vote for him, and how many people have not drank from the well o' bizzare that is the Obama experience.

Have your little generational hissy fit, blame the Boomers, blame society, blame everyone but yourselves. When Obama does not stop the war, that will be the first shoe to drop. Then when there is nothing even resembling a health care plan tht covers the uninsured, then that may clue you in that your guy IS establishment.

How sad this is going to be, and according to polls done from the very begining, Obama and Hillary have only the slightest edge of beating a McCain.

So take your lumps Obama supporters when the bad news comes.

Oh and being the good Democrat that I am, I will vote for him. Up untill he wins the nomination, I will speak my mind about him. After, not a word against him from me. When he looses to McCain, then I will offer my sarcastic condolences.

[scheming daemons]

1. Obama has a much better chance at beating McCain than Hillary...

...by every objective analysis.

Hillary would beat McCain in a squeaker.... Obama would beat McCain in a landslide, and have extremely long coattails to boot.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. like this.....these fucking voters will NOT be there for Obama in Novemebr....

get it?!?

thank you Obama for 100 years of WAR!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/14/obama-nevada-flyer-you-can-be-a-democrat-for-one-day

[Egnever]

18. "If you think a democrat will win and dont want Hillary"

They have allready conceded. Sounds like they are trying to decide which dem they want and they dont want Hillary. Sounds like Obama has a shot to pick up some pubs. It sounds like hillary can bring em out to vote against her even in Dem primaries. You think this makes Hillary more viable in a GE how again?

[Hepburn]

50. I frankly see little or no difference between...

...the queen...er...Hillary and McInsane. Both are Hawks beholden to corporate America and far too cozy with the BFEE.

Color Hillary ~~ Dubya Lite.

JMHO

[thoughtcrime1984]

51. Oh, it's a trap! Thanks, Einstein! I'm going Hillary now!

:sarcasm:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. That's Only While He's Untested. That Could Change In A Heartbeat Once Real Campaigning Begins.

You have to realize that any of those head to head polls at this point are completely irrelevant and useless as it relates to what the true picture might be come the GE.

Obama may end up taking a HUGE fall from grace if he can't handle the RW attack machine, and end up being SLAUGHTERED in the GE. Hillary, on the other hand, though a squeaker right now, could end up totally showing how she could hold her ground, how good she'd lead, how knowledgeable about policy she is, and quick off the cuff, and end up rising high and above McCain to a huge victory. It could totally be the case, as nothing is known in politics until the moment arrives.

The GE campaign has yet to begin. Anyone thinking those poll numbers will hold or be relevant once it does, is a naive political fool.

[cali]

30. Actuallly, today's polls are a snapshot

I think one thing they're a snapshot of, is the deep and abiding dislike that people have for Hillary Clinton. There is little to indicate that she'd be able to change this. Of course, Obama could go down, but we can only judge him on how he's conducted his campaign to date, and he gets high marks for that from anyone who cares to step back and be objective. Hillary, oth, has not done well managing her campaign. She's blown some big advantages, and I don't find that encouraging.

Anyone who doesn't understand that it's very difficult to reverse the kind of high negatives that Hillary is burdened with, doesn't undertand much about political realities.

[JuniperLea]

67. Is that why Hillary and Obama are neck and neck? eom

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. So are you saying that Clinton isn't mounting much of a campaign?

I agree.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

91. Nope. Read It Again And Try Not To Mess It Up So Badly This Time.

Your completely off the mark interpretation should be embarrassing to you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

93. I'm curious about your phrase "once the real campaigning begins."

Which implies Clinton hasn't got much of one.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

94. Sorry. Forgot You're One That Needs To Be Spoonfed. Here Ya Go:

Hillary, Obama, and McCain, are right now campaigning in the primaries against inner party opponents. Once each side has it's nominees chosen, then the 'real campaigning' against each other begins, which is then a straightforward right vs left choose your sides go for the throat battle. That has yet to even begin. Once it does, those numbers reflected in the head to head matchup polls may drastically change. Right now, before the REAL GE (thrown in there for spoonfeeding value) CAMPAIGNING has even begun, those polls don't mean jack shit.

[endarkenment]

2. Bitter much?

[Colobo]

3. You are so bitter. I feel kinda sorry for you.

Anyway, let's get ready to celebrate Obama's victory in November. :)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. Mac is Back! ...Mac is Back!...I'm getting ready..........

Thank you Obama for the 100 more wars



http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/14/obama-nevada-flyer-you-can-be-a-democrat-for-one-day

[angie_love]

7. LOL you sound creepy.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

21. hah wait...when thousands chant it it sounds like a convention of chiropractors "Crack His Back!"

[angie_love]

I don't get it, and it wasn't really funny...sorry

:shrug:

[Hepburn]

52. Yeah....

...kind of fixated to the point of ignoring reality, IMO.

[angie_love]

6. woooooo hooooooooo Go Obama!!!

YAY!!!! Partaaaayy :beer: :applause: :headbang: :woohoo:

[kentuck]

8. I don't think your comments are rational...

The Republicans would rather run against Hillary than Obama. However, some don't really care for McCain either and will crossover to vote for Obama. But Obama wins the millions of new voters. Obama wins the Independents. Hillary wins the Old Guard mostly. Most polls show that Obama will beat McCain and Hillary will lose to McCain. Personally, I think she would squeak by with a victory. But I think Obama has the chance to give the Party a landslide. Of course, these are all predictions and polls and are not written in stone. However, I think it is hard to argue that Hillary would not bring the apathetic and disillusioned Republicans together more than any other candidate?

[Neshanic]

20. I said that both would have a hard time beating McCain.

Please do not talk about rationality. A President who is a criminal. A Vice President that is so corrupt there really is no camparison, a Democratic leadership that thinks impeachment is a non-starter. A war hero Kerry that could not win the election. The government muses over buying up bad debt from the housing fiasco, The war goes on, and we have a Neanderthal talking about items on his ass, illegal spying....

Rational? Come back and tell me rational when he McCain wins.

[kentuck]

29. It is very possible...

More possible with Hillary as the candidate, in my opinion. Obviously we disagree on that? We need to stop being so fearful and cautious and get behind whichever candidate wins the nomination and be ready to fight the war mongers.

[Neshanic]

56. Fearfull? Hardly. I live in the same country you do.

I will vote for his inevitableness. I vote a straight Democratic ticket. ALWAYS.

[dchill]

63. "inevitableness" ???

So now he'll be accused of plagiarizing "Inevitable." Great. :)

[Yurem2008]

9. Hillary with no coattails sinking the entire ticket

if nominated, yes, we would surely get President-elect McCrazy and on Jan 20, 2009 President McLame. Hillary is a sure bet to lose to McPain...all the National polls show that...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. really....Obama has temp coattails...i mean a lizards tail.....

[scheming daemons]

22. Wow.... fake flyers.....

Are you sure you didn't work for the Bush campaign in South Carolina in 2000?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. NOT "fake" PROOF they were made by an Obama prescient captian....here's a LINK

I'll be waiting here for your humble apology

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/01/14/obama-nevada-flyer-you-can-be-a-democrat-for-one-day

[MethuenProgressive]

10. Not me. I support Clinton.

And will vote for Obama if his by-hook-or-by-crook methods gain him the nomination.

[Colobo]

16. What methods are you talking about?

[Dawgs]

11. When has Hillary slapped some Republicans around?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. she slapped Rudy and LaZIO PRETTY DAMN GOOD

[angie_love]

23. NO she didn't! Please, Rudy was ripping her a new one until he dropped out

b/c of cancer. And Lazio? LOL please. Everyone knew Clinton would beat Lazio based on name recognition alone. I was raised in NYC and I voted for Hillary for senate twice, the first time b/c I missed the Clintons and also b/c I didn't know anything about Lazio, didn't even know who he was. The second time she ran she wasted 40 million just on a re-election! Crazy!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. ahaha you Obamanites just LOVE to defendi the RWingers don't ja!?!?

[Occam Bandage]

44. It isn't "defending" them to say that Hillary was trailing him in the polling.

[angie_love]

47. lol, did you not read the line where I said I voted for her twice?

How does that make me a right winger if I voted for her? How typical of you, not making any coherent sense. :shrug: I won't stoop to your level and say its typical of all hillary supporters b/c there are some good ones, you're just not one of them.

[Recursion]

25. Err... if Rudy had not gotten sick I don't think we would have a Senator Clinton today

She was not doing well before he dropped out.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

38. not spoken by a NYer is see...just Obamanites LOVING on Rethuglicans as always

[Occam Bandage]

35. Rudy was kickin' ass until he fell apart in scandal. For comparison,

Obama was beating Jack Ryan by 20 points before his sex scandal broke and he dropped out.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. ahh typical Obamanite to the defense of all repukes!... "Raygun and the GOP the party of ideas"

[Occam Bandage]

42. Even New Yorkers expected him to win, 50-31. He was still 3-5 points ahead even after

his prostate cancer and marital "troubles" were made public.

[Hepburn]

57. IMO, I think you need to step back...

...you seem to have gone over the edge. Is this what desperation does?

I can tell ya, Hillary supporters like you are one very good reason that I am considering NOT voting in November if she takes the nomination. Prior to reading all the wacko shit from you and others like you, I had pretty much steeled myself that if the Queen got the nom, I would hold my nose and go to the polls in November and vote for her. However....I really wish to distance myself from people like you to the max....so you are pushing me to the place that if she takes the nom, I may just stay home.

Congrats...you turned a life-long Dem voter and campaigner totally off from voting for the Dem nominee in November 2008 if that nominee is Hillary Clinton. Good work ~~ NOT!

[Carolina]

82. whoop de do

what has she done in Washington against Bush?! Nada, zip. Gone along to get ahead...

That's why her war vote* haunts her on the campaign trail and should haunt her in the depths of her soul!

* and it was for WAR against a nation that was not an imminent threat and never attacked us!

[mtnsnake]

13. K&R your awesome post

I'm right there with you :)

[Colobo]

17. You should not share his bitterness. There is no reason to do so.

[mtnsnake]

32. His bitterness? You should mind your own business about who I'll support & who I won't.

[Colobo]

45. C'mon, mtnsnake...

:hug:

[mtnsnake]

74. Oh allright, Katz

:hug:

[cali]

19. More bitter sour grapes. Quelle surprise.

And put down the 8 ball you're so enslaved to. It's really not scientific.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. cali here is an 8 ball ....

[cali]

34. oh how pitiful. That was done by a lone volunteer

in NV and was quickly put to an end. Your bringing that up is about as lame as someone bringing up the fact that three of Hill's volunteer coordinators in Iowa forwarded hate email about Obama. And it's germane to nothing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

43. and what was Dick Morris doing on Fox yesterady...ordering TX voters to do EXACTLY the same thing...

catchy isn't it?

[cali]

49. Yes, yes

and Ohio repug officials are urging repukes to vote for Hill there.

Oh, and I don't watch TV- any TV. I think it's mindless crap.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

60. and nor do I but, sadly the fact remains that the mases do watch TV

[musicblind]

78. Oh, well sometimes there are good things on

You should check out Real Time With Bill Maher. You'd like that, he supports Obama!

[Carolina]

84. yeah, and what idiot chose Morris to help Bill in his second term

yep, HRC.

Morris, Wolfson, Penn! She sure knows how to pick 'em... birds of a feather!

[Milo_Bloom]

27. CLinton has 0 chance against McCain.

What "new voters" is she going to bring to the table? 0


With Clinton v McCain you will see standard to low turnout, which favors the GOP.

With Obama, you will see increased turnout from groups that often do not turn out. THat is the key to the election and that is why Obama is the only currently running democrat who can beat McCain.

[Neshanic]

41. You are correct. Hillary and Obama would have a very slight chance of winning.

[Milo_Bloom]

53. Nope. Just Clinton.

Obama has a very good shot, because of the increased turnout.

[RiverStone]

89. two questions...

How do you explain the unprecedented turn out in many states and the fact Dems are voting in much greater numbers than pukes?

Will you support our nominee if it is Obama?

Minus a few southern states, it looks like Obama would totally kick McLames ass in all other regions of the country. Amazing how folks can read and hear the same news - but see thing very differently.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

61. you need to keep telling yourself that you're gonna need it to get you through the guilt that .....

is to come.....sigh

[Milo_Bloom]

65. Guilt over what?

Clinton can't win, that's reality, due if only due to the fact that millions of people wouldn't vote for her b/c of the Iraq war vote.

That would lead to lower turnout and the GOP winning.

Obama has a chance, which is far more than Clinton has.

[stillcool]

28. I like how Dick Morris put it...

When told Hillary Clinton has experience because she has 8 years in the white house, Dick Morris stated “so has the pastry chef”.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

40. ahh Obamanites LOVING on Rethuglicans as always!....you are disgusting and NO Dem

[angie_love]

48. maybe you should think about your posts before you type them, they are coming off incredibly rabid

Every post on this thread of yours sounds abit maniacal. Just saying.

[stillcool]

66. aren't you sweet....

by the way...I am a human being. Have you got a mirror near by? you might want to take a look.

[shadowknows69]

97. Stop it

What the hell is wrong with you?

[printpolitico]

73. a dicks a dick

That's so enlightening and cleaver by mister Morris. That guy is so bitter it spews every time he gets a chance to voice his opinion he blame the Clinton's. Clinton's responsible
for everything from aids to major league baseballs steroid abuse. Find a better role model.

[Carolina]

85. but the Clinton's once hired him

namely Hillary, so maybe, just maybe, he knows something about her.

[stillcool]

95. role model?

what is it with you people? You don't think the phrase is kind of cute? To each his own I guess.

[Mz Pip]

31. I wish I had your psychic abilities

Must be wonderful to be able to predict exactly what is going to happen.

Go any winning lotto numbers lately?

[Occam Bandage]

33. So, Obama will both lose to McCain and not end the war once elected. Gotcha.

[Neshanic]

39. If by a slim chance he does win. Very slim chance/change.

[Occam Bandage]

46. So your crystal ball is sharp, except for when it's cloudy.

[Neshanic]

54. Well even the bizzare is possible. Exhibit "A" a President Bush for two terms.

Think about that little tidbit, and you can bluetooth my crystal ball.

[Occam Bandage]

55. Indeed. Even the things you don't believe will happen can, and often do, happen.

[Neshanic]

58. Nice try.

[Occam Bandage]

59. It's the truth. In fact, given your admitted track record

(and the fact that you found reality to be 'bizarre'), I would take your predictions of loss to be a good sign for Obama's campaign.

[Neshanic]

62. McCain will pull it all together, and the independents will vote for him, not Obama.

[smoogatz]

64. Are ypu kidding me? Obama will eviscerate McCain.

Indies and moderates break to Obama in droves. Only pro-war whackos and wingnut octogenarians are going to vote for McCain. Without the fundies, he's sunk.

You might ask yourself this simple question: if Hillary can't handle a political neophyte like Obama (heh), what makes you think she can take on McCain and the noise machine? What's her winning strategy?

[Neshanic]

68. Very sad.

[Arugula Latte]

70. Just because you think it's "sad" doesn't make it untrue.

The truth hurts; no wonder Hillary supporters seem so pained.

[smoogatz]

72. Seriously. How can she possibly beat the invincible McCain

if the primary against Obama is such a freaking struggle for her? McCain's been in the Senate since 1843, is a wounded and imprisoned vet, and can pull generals out of his hat who'll swear on a stack of cruise missiles that he's a military genius. Hillary can't run against the war that 65% of Americans oppose—she's in the same bind Kerry was—because she voted for it. What's she going to run on? Healthcare? After the Hillarycare debacle? Government accountability? Are you freakin' kidding me?

[Carolina]

86. touche, excellent post

[Arugula Latte]

69. We want someone who can kick McCain's droopy wrinkly pasty ass back to Arizona

and that is one big reason why we want Obama.

Hillary will sink us. SHE'S the one who carries the massive negatives, and who starts out with a huge handicap because half the country already despises her -- and it's only February.

[Vinca]

71. Polls favor Obama over McCain and McCain over Clinton.

It will be sad if Hillary is our nominee.

[smoogatz]

77. Alert!

The use of actual facts to support an argument is against the rules in GDP. Didn't you get the memo?

[Scriptor Ignotus]

75. yes, because an old, angry white guy who will continue Bush's policies

is totally what the masses are clamoring for right now.

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

76. Is there fucking anyone here that isn't full of themselves?

Bitter much? Dayum. Get out and get some sunlight or something, or switch to decaf.

[Carolina]

79. Hillary will unite the GOP in a way McCain can only

dream of.

"... the Angry White Man loathes Hillary Clinton. Her voice reminds him of a shovel scraping a rock. He recoils at the mere sight of her on television. Her very image disgusts him, and he cannot fathom why anyone would want her as their leader. It’s not that she is a woman. It’s that she is who she is...

There are many millions of Angry White Men. Four million Angry White Men are members of the National Rifle Association, and all of them will vote against Hillary Clinton, just as the great majority of them voted for George Bush.

He hopes that she will be the Democratic nominee for president in 2008, and he will make sure that she gets beaten like a drum.

http://www.aspentimes.com/article/2008198091324

[Rosa Luxemburg]

87. the anti Hillary surge will be huge

[musicblind]

81. You are speaking the truth, but they wont listen

I will vote for Obama in the GE. I will campaign my heart out for him, I will donate to him. However, when he fails to be elected because the RW slander machine did what I had warned they would do... something they wouldn't be able to do to Hillary because she's been there and done that, and because Obama has so many qualities to pick on. (Even though all of them are below the belt... the reality is that the RW would PREFER to go below the belt.)


The biggest thing we did to shoot ourselves in the foot this time around was to decide that it was not okay to raise the questions they republicans will raise in the general. We cried racism when the muslim sounding name was brought up, or the drug relations in his youth were mentioned. We cried fowl if anything about his family was mentioned over seas, or his middle name. We had a fit over the accusations of an empty suit. Those were "below the belt." Threads were locked, and people were told to shut up. That defeats the purpose of the Primary season. The purpose of this season IS to air all of this crap out so the Republicans don't have it to hold onto. McCain is getting the proper sceptical treatment from his crowd and it is going to help him. Because we kept locking threads, and banning people who didn't agree with us on Obama we are living in a bubble and blinded from the reality of why Obama can't win. We never allowed ourselves to explore that reality. Not in my eyes, but in the Rethugs eyes, Obama has more negatives than anyone we could have nominated. That is why he is going down. And to think, the people of my generation, the youth generation, are the ones who have caused it. McCain may very well be President of the United States :(

[CyberPieHole]

83. Great post and spot on. Kick and recommend...

Obama and his cultish followers will sink the party. By the time they wake up it will be too late.

[Carolina]

90. HRC is already sinking the party

by resorting to low, slime tactics since she's already losing primaries and caucuses.

After all, she was supposed to be annointed two weeks ago!

She is the GOP's dream since she can unite the repukes in a way McCain can only dream of!

Repukes loathe her, many Dems are starting to feel similarly and she will not draw any indies.

Invincible in the primaries: uh, NO
Invincible in the GE: hell, NO

[cooolandrew]

88. Well Ok I will take your well reasoned opinion and ignore the wide range of polls to the contrary.

[Perry Logan]

92. What a bunch of flibbertigibbets. Even the Republicans know they're screwed.

I don't think they really want to be in power anymore. It only hurts them.

[intaglio]

96. You make no sense

Your entire post here is unsupported bias against a particular candidate. You have no evidence of what you say and you ignore evidence when it is in front of you.

1) The Obama campaign is, at present, likely to defeat the Clinton Campaign
2) Some supporters of the Clinton Campaign argue that this is because of "slime attacks" and "swiftboating"
3) For some reason the supposedly valid attacks made by Clinton against Obama fail - let us say due to bias in the media
4) Vast numbers of Republican activists, and Independent voters are voting for Obama thus ensuring he defeats Hillary
5) Equally, the illogically enthusiastic Obama supporters are able to persuade many Democratic voters to vote for Obama

Lets conduct a thought experiment and because we are in Fantasyland let us wave a magic wand - hey presto! Obama vanishes and all his his supporters become refined, pleasant Democratic party activists. Hillary is the Candidate!

1) How will HILLARY be able to stand up to the Republican Machine if she cannot stand up to the Obama Campaign?
2) I think we all know that the media would be hugely biased against Hillary probably more so than against Obama
3) that REAL swiftboat attacks would begin, not the fairly minor point scoring being conducted now
4) the old dirt would be rehashed - just to provide historical context - of course they were innocent of all charges!
5) that the similarities between the candidates, war votes, trade votes, fisa votes would be played up
6) the similarity in age would be highlighted
7) the lack of experience would be amplified
8) the crying would be examined in detail, sometimes found to be calculated, sometimes found to be real weakness
9) the unpreparedness of the hillary campaign for a challenge would be taken as weakness
10)the funding problems the same
11)the links to lobbyists given full publicity
12)the links to Hsu, Mehmet Celebi and others exhaustively dissected
13)the idea that Bill Clinton would be the real President will be aired and how unconstitutional that would be
14)and Bill would be reported as being seen with blondes and brunettes - all perfectly innocent of course!

Given all of that do you really think Hillary Clinton would stand a chance?

I'm sorry, Neshanic but you ask us to believe that a man who is beating the most experienced campaigning team in the contest stands less chance than Hillary. Please grow up, abandon your Emo pessimism and your teenage crush

/edit for word with double meaning