I "oppose Obama".

[MethuenProgressive]

I "oppose Obama".
Gore, Kerry, Wes Clark, Bill Richardson were all better choices than the two we're left with. I've been around too long to be "moved" by Obama's lofty rhetoric, soaring slogans, and empty chants. And I've been around too long to not see through the Right Wing's years of unfair and untrue attacks on Hillary. Obama's supporters, on DU especially, have really been a turn off. I didn't actually 'oppose' Obama until he embraced McClurkin and the hate wing of his church, but it was his Swiftboating the Clintons on Race that was really the last straw.
As a Democrat, I donated to several candidates (not Edwards) but including Obama. As a democrat, I've earmarked my tax rebate from GWB for a donation to our nominee. As a Democrat, I'll vote for Obama if he's our nominee. Hopefully he'll pick Richardson as his VP.
*Any* Democrat is better than any Republican, as Democrats on this we all should be able to agree.

[AX10]

1. I am one of the few young people who is not moved...

by all of his talk.
I know how politics work, therefore I know that he is full of shit.

[JuniperLea]

2. I feel pretty much the same way...

I feel like I've consumed mass quantities of the Obama Kool-Aid antedote or something, because I just don't get it. I'm not too impressed with Hillary either. I think they are pretty much the same 95% of the time.

[ProgressIn2008]

33. That's an interesting question - why some of us are inoculated

against the hype. I just don't feel it, and didn't from day one. And I think he and Hillary are essentially the same kind of political creature, as well, in terms of what they offer as potential administrations. That's the reason it's come down to style -- policy-wise, there aren't huge differences.

I would consider myself a realist, I suppose, but I can be very idealistic about books, art, philosophy, that kind of thing. I just can't be idealistic about politicians.

[Straight Shooter]

39. I wonder if we are the ones who tend to be skeptical of mass adulation in any form.

Even when I was younger, I never idolized anyone in the movies, or in music, or any political figure such as RFK (although I thought he would be a great president). I don't cry at movies, either, but if a friend is hurting, I will cry with them.

I think Obama just reaches out and touches the hippocampus of the susceptible. The question is, why are they are so willing to believe someone based on the power of carefully crafted rhetoric? Isn't this why we mocked the bush worshipers? What's the difference, except professed idealogy? bush turned on his base and gave them very little of what they wanted, and gave business everything they wanted.

[JuniperLea]

41. Isn't this why we mocked the Bush worshipers???!?!??!?!

Nailed it! I couldn't agree more!

[ProgressIn2008]

90. The hippocampus of the susceptible -- heh, yes, maybe that's it

Now that I think about it, mass adulation has never done it for me, either. I'm thinking of celebrity culture, as well. I've always rather felt I was on the outside, looking in -- not in a sad way, as in, "I wish I could be a part of this," but as in, "I simply don't feel part of this, huh."

Maybe some people are designed to be more sceptical of mass adulation or mass anything. Honestly, the thought of going into a stadium and weeping among strangers for a politician is... well, a turn-off is the most benign way I can express it.

It is good to know I'm not alone, though!

[JuniperLea]

92. I refused to wear designer jeans in high school...

And remained faithful to Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath and Blue Oyster Cult instead of the crappy pop junk most of my pals were listening to, even though these guys never got airplay on local radio.

I remember wanting to "join in" briefly in the third grade, until my grandfather gave me the ol' "if your friends were all jumping off buildings, would you want to as well?" speech... I really took it to heart! He also said that 49% of the population was below average in intelligence... I thought long and hard about that one too! Then I worked for a film-maker, and had the discussion as to whether it is better to create box office blockbusters, or high cinema, because rarely do the two come together. Same goes for popular music, and art. All are subjective, of course, but still, when you think of it in those terms I think you get a better sense of what "The Masses" are all about. We all talk about Bush's "backwash" 23% who hang onto him with dear life even though the rest of us see him for what he is... I think this is the same principle. Like the monkey with his hand full of jelly beans, so full that he can't extract the hand from the jar.

Grandpa was a mechanical genius who worked on heavy equipment all his life, and helped build air force bases in Greenland and the Philippines during WWII... he fabricated parts, welded, and kept the heavy equipment working. All this with a third grade education. I shudder to think what he might have accomplished with a proper education.

[Straight Shooter]

95. I bought a Creative Zen V because I couldn't stand to be part of the iPod crowd.

I agree with everything you said, especially the part about Blue Oyster Cult. :)

[JuniperLea]

97. Cool! More cowbell!

LOL!!

I bought a Mazda because there are too many Toyotas and Hondas around, and the Mazda got great gas mileage and was an ULEV... ultra low emissions vehicle.

You'll appreciate this... if you recognize him;)

[JuniperLea]

40. I'm with you on all counts! eom

[MethuenProgressive]

64. Thank you, juni.

:hi:

[krabigirl]

98. Same here.

[rockymountaindem]

7. Me too

I don't begrudge anybody being excited, nor do I think it's bad that the Obama campaign is tapping into what youthful enthusiasm that still exists after the last eight years. However, my expectations regarding any concrete change if either of our candidates win remains low. That's not because I don't think they want change, but Obama in particular has raised expectations so high I don't think he (or anybody in modern US politics) could live up to them.

[MethuenProgressive]

65. Good post. Thanks.

:dem:

[rodeodance]

10. i need to find a letter that was posted --another young folk who was taken -then decided

she was not in love with him anymore. i will see if i can find it.

[rodeodance]

12. It's Not You, It's Me -Letter from a young, hip, cynical former Obamamaniac.

If go to website—there are clickable stories/cites within this story.


http://www.slate.com/id/2184536/


It's Not You, It's Me

Letter from a young, hip, cynical former Obamamaniac.
By Dahlia Lithwick
Updated Thursday, Feb. 14, 2008, at 6:43 PM ET


Dear Barack:

I know it's kind of lame to break up with you on Valentine's Day. And on the Internet to boot. But it's also kind of ironic. And that's what I need to tell you. As an ironic, contrarian, so-hip-it-hurts Gen X-er, I just can't love you anymore. I can't like you because … because, well, everyone else does. And suddenly supporting you just seems soooo last week.

Last week, my hip friends were all thronging stadiums and manning phone banks for you. Now they're all blogging against you and downing water and Tylenol like they've just done 12 Obama shooters in 20 minutes and then barfed in the cloakroom.
Click to learn more...

I know this is going to sound strange, but it's not you, Barack, it's me. Really it always was me, but now it's really, really about me. I don't know when we started to feel weird supporting you, but: My friend Hanna thinks it started with that "Yes We Can," video. I mean, last week I was totally crying watching it. Now just thinking about how choked up I got gives me the creeps. I think I felt something at the time, but even if I did, I'm pretty sure I don't want to feel it anymore. Feeling inspired is soooo early-February.

Or maybe it started when everyone began madly posting last week about how you are not the Messiah. And that got me thinking. Then, when commentators started accusing me of being a venomous drone in a "cult of personality," I just needed to get out. I mean cults are soooo 1970s. And cults of personality? So totally first century.

Cult or no cult, this week I just started getting really confused about you. I mean, when people start to say that your strengths are actually weaknesses? That just makes sense, if you really think about it. I mean, what's the point of being such an inspirational speaker if all you can do is give inspirational speeches? Do better, Barack. I mean, do worse!

So I've been thinking a lot about our time together, Barack. Supporting you wholeheartedly was the best damn 14 days of my life. I liked you before liking you was cool. But now it is, so it's not. Know what I mean? At least now I can go back to being flip and cynical and edgy again. I bet you wish you could, too.

But don't be sad! My friend has a Web site: IlikedObamabeforehewascool.com. It's not much of a site, but it sure is funny. As for me, well, I just can't be comfortable liking you now that liking you is like liking an iPhone. Maybe if you can be more of a jerk or play hard to get or something? Maybe you could uninspire some of your fans? Maybe then I could believe in you again. I'm hopeful. Or at least just hopeful enough to still be cool.
………..

Me, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and start working for the Dennis Kucinich 2012 campaign. Edgy, no? And if things start really truly going south for you, I want you to know that you can count on my future fleeting and conditional support in the months and years ahead. Yes, you can.
……..
http://www.slate.com/id/2184536/

[MethuenProgressive]

25. Very well done, thanks for finding and sharing this.

:thumbsup:

[rodeodance]

44. :-)

[Cameron27]

68. lol,

that's great!

[JoFerret]

107. I fear you may be right

.

[Coexist]

3. no kidding. you have made that very clear.

[MethuenProgressive]

14. I've been called "transparent" by DUbamas as though it's a bad thing.

I say what I mean, and mean what I say. I'd make a lousy politician.

[Democrats_win]

4. The "unfair & untrue attacks" on Hillary are something I hope Americans consider.

The Obama vs. Hillary Clinton thing is one thing, but these unfair attacks are just wrong.

[rodeodance]

22. just my gut feeling -but outside of DU--i think many people just turn it off--its old news.

[AndyA]

5. I agree with most of what you said.

I supported John Edwards.

Obama doesn't add up to me. We're supposed to "hope" for "change" yet after the last 7 years, a candidate is going to have to give me something more substantial than promises for hope and change. Bush was going to restore integrity to the White House. Remember? The grown ups were in charge. Right. :eyes:

I want change, and I want to see renewed hope for a better America in the future. But it's going to take more than empty promises, and I don't see any reason to take someone at their word at this point.

Hillary has laid out what she intends to do, whereas Barack has left a lot of things unanswered. And when I've contacted the Clinton campaign with questions, they responded back to me with answers.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the Obama campaign...it's been almost 2 months now...I guess I'm not important enough to respond to. :eyes:

And yes, I know they get thousands of messages. But the fact is, Hillary cares enough to make sure people who are sincere get an answer. As I said, still waiting on Barack.

[Birthmark]

35. Pretty much agree with you.

I'm no fan of Hillary, though.

[MethuenProgressive]

67. I want change too. That's why I'll vote for our nominee,

And Hope it's not Obama.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Axlerod has created these frankenstein "hope & change" candidates

and by definition, they attract a following of "believers" and nitwits who don't know any better.

[MethuenProgressive]

13. Deval Patrick is a classic example. He's done absolutley nothing as Governor.

Speeches might make a candidate, but they don't make law.

[rodeodance]

19. I have not keep with him. He sure is a Hero here on DU (if judge by the posts)

[Forkboy]

28. Who has called him a hero?

[MethuenProgressive]

38. Deval's a hero to some folks:

http://knowthyneighbor.blogs.com/home/2006/12/deval_patrick_n.html
Deval Patrick Named A Bigot As Co-Chair of the Human Services Working Group
Assigning the Reverend Richard Richardson of The Black Ministerial Alliance as Co-Chair Says One Thing, "It is Okay to To Actively Discriminate Against LGBT people and their families"


OK, so not to *these* folks...

[rodeodance]

43. lets just say from the comments i see on DU he is hightly regarded.

[Forkboy]

46. ok, that's fair enough.

He's been a mixed bag so far to me. That's why I asked.

[Skidmore]

20. Funny how Hillary now talks about change, when she didn't

start out talking that way. She made the assumption that the system cannot be made to change, and that the people would sit back quietly and let the already annointed carry on. After two terms of *, people know that the system must be changed. These "frankenstein candidates" get where the are not because they chain a couple of words together, but because they have listened to individual people and respond to them. It is the system that does not want to change. The most basic principle of therapy for a dysfunctional family or group is that the system will seek to preserve itself. We have been watching that for a year now. Those who are cozy in their well entrenched circles of influence and money don't want to do things differently. It does not serve their self interests to do so. It does not serve the interests of anyone outside of those circles not to change the system.

[The_Casual_Observer]

31. You have projected your own desires onto Obama's empty canvas.

That's the essence of his campaign rhetoric, say nothing & let the listener create their own paradise in their mind.

[Skidmore]

32. Good luck with that dinosaur you're riding.

[The_Casual_Observer]

34. Best you can do?

at least I'm not getting conned by a two-bit carnival show.

[Bake]

91. And that, my friend, will make Obama (assuming he gets elected) a one-termer

Followed by decades of more Republican "rule."

Bake

[Sapphocrat]

99. Heh...

Right in line with the slate "break-up letter" rodeodance posted -- about how Obama's strengths are really his weaknesses.

It's another perfect example of doublethink:

We say, "There's no 'there' there"; they say his positions are full of substance (which we'd know, if we'd just bother to read his Web site).

We say, "I don't like his ideology"; they say he has no set ideology -- he's a "blank screen" onto which you are supposed to project your own hopes and dreams.

We say, "Then you admit there's no 'there' there?"; they say his positions are full of substance...

Rinse. Repeat.

[bowens43]

8. I think you must be viewing this in mirror

the swiftboating is coming from Hillary and her supporters.

[MethuenProgressive]

11. Obama's Swiftboated the Clintons on Race.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html

the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view - and push the narrative - that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press.

Obama's Swiftboated the Clintons on Race.
She, and Bill, had a long and strong relationship and record of support with the African American community. Yet it only took the Obama camp a few months to convince people like you the Clintons are racists.
Swiftboating works.

[rodeodance]

17. I have say--I agree with you--The whole episode is mind-blowing to me.

[Skidmore]

24. Sweetie, the Clintons did that all by themselves.

You cannot use loaded language and wink-wink hope that the people you are insulting will ignore it and pat you on the back.

[MethuenProgressive]

26. Don't hate yourself for being the victim of Obama's Swiftboating.

You were played by people much, much, much, smarter than you.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. The shoe on the other foot for you

You cannot use loaded language and wink-wink hope that the people you are insulting will ignore it and pat you on the back. Unless you are Barack and McClurkin, then the people you are insulting will be told to ignore it and called 'silly' and hypersensitive if they don't.

Shoes come in pairs and you need both to walk without tripping yourself up. See how that works?

The OP is so very correct.

[rodeodance]

51. you have listened to the media meme too much and will not engage in a discussion

[Iceburg]

111. That's when he lost me...dirtiest smear in politics EVER!/nt

[zabet]

9. Excellent post!

Gore was my first pick and I was a die-hard
hold out for him. I then chose Biden due to
the foreign relations expertise that would be
a huge benefit in correcting our global issues
which in turn would help some of the domestic
economy issues. When he dropped out, I went to
Edwards simply because of the 3 that were left,
I figured as a little moderate, nothing too new,
he would stand a better chance in the GE. People
are creatures of habit for the most part, they like
to talk about change but, when it comes down to
actually changing, it has to be done in tiny increments
to not cause balking, and digging in of the heels and
vehement opposition. My support came down to Hillary,
I know what she is about, any dirt is old dirt.
Obama just is too new to me. I know he has run a smart
campaign this time but, no one seems to remember his
failed Representative run, no one seems to remember the
dissent in Chicago and people calling for 'No more Obamanation!'
then, no one remembers he talks about taking a stand and then
votes present, if he shows up to vote (kylllieberman).
Like it or not, Hillary stands by her positions and makes
no apologies or excuses.
When it comes to the GE, I will vote Dem and I will not
even have to hold my nose, like many around here say if
they choice does not get the nod.

[rodeodance]

16. nicely said. When neg. info does come on Obama it is rudely shoulded down as you know.

[zabet]

27. Yes it is.

I just wear earplugs when
I post in GDP. ;)

:hi:

[MethuenProgressive]

69. Thanks for the response, Jane.

Our next President won't be able to duck problems, or avoid hard choices.
With Obama's record of skipping out on tough votes, and his fondness for the Present button, he's just not teh one for the big job.

[THUNDER HANDS]

15. yay, another optimistic, hopeful post - vote Clinton

where all your dreams get checked at the door.

[rodeodance]

21. that is the problem with dreams. One wakes up and PUFF--its gone.

where all your dreams get checked at the door.

[durrrty libby]

18. Great post . I agree with it

His speaking style is a big turn-off. I loathe preachy speechifying.

And that whole "create a kingdom on earth" garbage is sickening

[MethuenProgressive]

70. "I loathe preachy speechifying." I kinda like it as an art form. But as substitute for substance?

No, thank you.

[emilyg]

23. Good post.

[MethuenProgressive]

84. Thanks, emily

:hi:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. you echo my feelings

[MethuenProgressive]

85. I've plagiarized your animation :O)

And sent it to my teen :hi:

[ProSense]

30. John Kerry supports Obama. He made an excellent decision! n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

36. "Obama's supporters, on DU especially, have really been a turn off."

It's always amusing when DUbamas who claim they have me on ignore respond to my posts soon thereafter.

[ProSense]

53. Question: Do you believe you've turned Obama supporters on? n/t

[rodeodance]

52. so?

[ProSense]

54. So Kerry endorsed Obama. Wasn't that point clear? n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

57. That's the same Kerry you hate because he voted for the IWR, right?

[ProSense]

61. No this Kerry,

who unlike Hillary, spoke out against Bush several times before Bush invaded, including this speech at Georgetown University on Thursday, January 23, 2003:

As our government conducts one war and prepares for another, I come here today to make clear that we can do a better job of making our country safer and stronger. We need a new approach to national security - a bold, progressive internationalism that stands in stark contrast to the too often belligerent and myopic unilateralism of the Bush Administration. I offer this new course at a critical moment for the country that we love, and the world in which we live and lead. Thanks to the work and sacrifice of generations who opposed aggression and defended freedom, for others as well as ourselves, America now stands as the world's foremost power. We should be proud: Not since the age of the Romans have one people achieved such preeminence. But we are not Romans; we do not seek an empire. We are Americans, trustees of a vision and a heritage that commit us to the values of democracy and the universal cause of human rights. So while we can be proud, we must be purposeful and mindful of our principles: And we must be patient - aware that there is no such thing as the end of history. With great power, comes grave responsibility.

<...>

Second, without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. He miscalculated an eight-year war with Iran. He miscalculated the invasion of Kuwait. He miscalculated America's response to that act of naked aggression. He miscalculated the result of setting oil rigs on fire. He miscalculated the impact of sending scuds into Israel and trying to assassinate an American President. He miscalculated his own military strength. He miscalculated the Arab world's response to his misconduct. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm.

So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War. Regrettably the current Administration failed to take the opportunity to bring this issue to the United Nations two years ago or immediately after September 11th, when we had such unity of spirit with our allies. When it finally did speak, it was with hasty war talk instead of a coherent call for Iraqi disarmament. And that made it possible for other Arab regimes to shift their focus to the perils of war for themselves rather than keeping the focus on the perils posed by Saddam's deadly arsenal. Indeed, for a time, the Administration's unilateralism, in effect, elevated Saddam in the eyes of his neighbors to a level he never would have achieved on his own, undermining America's standing with most of the coalition partners which had joined us in repelling the invasion of Kuwait a decade ago.

In U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the United Nations has now affirmed that Saddam Hussein must disarm or face the most serious consequences. Let me make it clear that the burden is resoundingly on Saddam Hussein to live up to the ceasefire agreement he signed and make clear to the world how he disposed of weapons he previously admitted to possessing. But the burden is also clearly on the Bush Administration to do the hard work of building a broad coalition at the U.N. and the necessary work of educating America about the rationale for war. As I have said frequently and repeat here today, the United States should never go to war because it wants to, the United States should go to war because we have to. And we don't have to until we have exhausted the remedies available, built legitimacy and earned the consent of the American people, absent, of course, an imminent threat requiring urgent action.

The Administration must pass this test. I believe they must take the time to do the hard work of diplomacy. They must do a better job of making their case to the American people and to the world.

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.

Kerry has never wavered in calling out Bush on his immoral war, and he led the effort to set a deadline for withdrawal.

Hillary Clinton's problem has been not only her silence, but also her inability to explain her position with clarity and consistency.

Also, where was Hillary when Bill was "repeatedly" defending "Bush against the left on Iraq"?

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

link

In the middle of the 2004 campaign to make Bush a one-term president (select) for his illegal invasion, Bill Clinton was defending him.

[MethuenProgressive]

71. The Pretzel logic needed to self justify personal support for Obama takes up a lot of your time.

I hope it makes you feel better. I really do.

[ProSense]

76. Only "pretzel logic" because it doesn't fit your spin. Where was Hillary? n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

80. It's always amusing when DUbamas who claim they have me on ignore respond to my posts soon after

I don't want to buy your flowers, get away from me with your kool aid.

[ProSense]

82. I don't use ignore! Obama is doing fine:

Poll: Hillary's Support Dropping Among Hispanics

By Greg Sargent - February 19, 2008

Ben Smith has a great catch -- the latest Gallup tracking poll shows Hillary's support eroding among Hispanics, a key core constituency...



Gallup also finds that Obama has gained among middle-aged voters, women, and self-identified Dems.

Gallup's conclusion: Obama has cemented his status as the candidate with momentum in the race, "holding a statistically significant lead in each of the last three tracking poll results."

In the days immediately after Super Tuesday, Clinton rebuilt her lead among women, enjoying a 53% to 38% lead in the Feb. 5-9 polling. But her gender advantage has once again dissipated, and in the latest data, female Democratic voters are about as likely to say they prefer Obama (45%) as Clinton (46%).



link

[griffi94]

37. i just read most of the posts on this thread

i think it's funny the heading in the thread states you don't support obama....it's meaning is pretty clear....and yet you got a couple of obamabots posting here.....telling you that the clintons are worse....you also said you didn't care for hillary....that to me is the creepy thing about the obamabots....it's not enough to not like hillary....you must love obama...LOVE HIM I SAY.....
only obama can get huge numbers of youthful idealistic voters to chant yes we can....

[MethuenProgressive]

42. It's tradition with a few of them.

Not all, there are some very nice Obama supporters that post here every day. They're mostly ignored by the clique of HillHaters though.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

48. that is because as Obama said on Jan 7th........

"... a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - - Barack Obama Lebanon, New Hampshire. January 7, 2008


:freak: :freak: :freak:




.

[MethuenProgressive]

56. He actually called his campaign a "hymn"...

Concord Monitor -
Obama campaign has developed troubling feel of a cult
Candidate fills the air with empty promises
"We are the hope of the future," sayeth Obama. We can "remake this world as it should be." Believe in me and I shall redeem not just you but your country - nay, we can become "a hymn that will heal this nation, repair this world, and make this time different than all the rest."

www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080215/OPINION/802150348/1322/NEWS97

[ElsewheresDaughter]

60. oy f#ck'in vey.....

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

73. That's just plain creepy!

:yoiks:

[MethuenProgressive]

77. "a hymn that will heal this nation, repair this world, and make this time different than all..."

"a hymn that will heal this nation, repair this world, and make this time different than all the rest."
That's Rapture code talk to the Fundis.
Remember back when DU opposed the Fundis?
I do.

[MethuenProgressive]

110. ...

:kick:

[Cass]

112. That is a weird and scary quote. It leaves me feeling uncomfortable.

Believe in me and I shall redeem not just you but your country - nay, we can become "a hymn that will heal this nation, repair this world, and make this time different than all the rest."

[rodeodance]

88. oh my-- and people wonder............

[goldcanyonaz]

50. The Obama followers remind me of a pyramid scheme. Everyone is a potential sale.

Sorry, but, I'm not buying.

[snappyturtle]

63. I've read the replies on this thread also.

It's one of the saddest threads I've read. The first few profess to be young voters and they don't care for the candidates. Maybe if they had lived through the reigns of more repuke presidents and understood the implications on their lives of their presidencies they wouldn't find the Democratic candidates so unaspiring. I can't imagine what they find at DU that is interesting; please, maybe you can enlighten me.

Possibly, reading a speech will make more sense than hearing it delivered. Here is a favorite of mine:
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/the_war_we_need_to_win.php

[endarkenment]

47. I'm shocked at this revelation.

[MethuenProgressive]

62. Thank you for the calm response, end.

[stillcool]

49. No kidding.

but about that swift-boating thing...

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET

The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.

Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused. I made unfortunate comments that do not accurately reflect my bipartisan conviction, political philosophy, or most importantly, my opinions about Senator Obama and his historic campaign for the United States presidency."

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."

"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_adviser_harold_ickes_t.php

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.

Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

Source: Hillary Adviser Harold Ickes Tells Surrogates To Refer To Super-Delegates As "Automatic Delegates"
By Greg Sargent - February 12, 2008, 11:43AM

In a sign that the spin war over the significance of super-delegates is underway in earnest, Harold Ickes told assorted Hillary supporters on a private conference call yesterday that the campaign wants them to start referring to super-delegates as "automatic delegates," according to someone on the call.

The person I spoke to paraphrases Ickes, who is spearheading Hillary's super-delegate hunt, this way: "We're no longer using the phrase super delegates. It creates a wrong impression. They're called automatic delegates. Because that's what they are."

The worry appears to be that the phrase "super-delegates" implies that "they have super-powers or super influence when they don't," the source says, describing Ickes' thinking. In other words, the phrase suggests that they have greater than average clout and that they have the power to overrule the democratic process, giving it the taint of back-room power politics
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_adviser_harold_ickes_t.php

I'm Sorry you don't like Obama's church.

[MethuenProgressive]

55. Obama Camp leaks memo seeking to Swiftboat the Clintons on Race.:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html

the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view - and push the narrative - that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press.

Obama's Swiftboated the Clintons on Race.
She, and Bill, had a long and strong relationship and record of support with the African American community. Yet it only took the Obama camp a few months to convince people like you the Clintons are racists.
Swiftboating works.

I'm sorry you think Gays will be sent to Hell if they don't repent their sin and be cured.

[stillcool]

58. Why do you think they had to make...

all those apologies? Do you need me to find you some more? ...Oh yeah...and by the way...think whatever hateful stuff you want, but don't bring me into your little party. You obviously do not know and do not care what I think. peace.
oops..had to edit...as a way to ensure peace I will now put you on ignore.

[displacedtexan]

59. I agree completely with everything you wrote.

That's exactly how I feel.

Have you been spying on me?

[MethuenProgressive]

72. Geez...

Put on a robe, will ya?
:hi:

[displacedtexan]

87. I knew it!

:wow:

[ronnykmarshall]

66. Good post.

I said very much to what I feel as well. Except the $$. Nada from our house.

[MethuenProgressive]

74. Thanks ronny.

The $ from our tax "refund" is going out to help defeat McCain in the general.
Thanks, George!

[maximusveritas]

75. Funny, it was the Clinton's obvious race baiting

that turned me away from the Clintons.

Even so, to suggest Obama or his campaign was behind that story is just nonsense.

[MethuenProgressive]

78. Obama Camp leaks memo seeking to Swiftboat the Clintons on Race:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html

the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view - and push the narrative - that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press.

Obama's Swiftboated the Clintons on Race.
She, and Bill, had a long and strong relationship and record of support with the African American community. Yet it only took the Obama camp a few months to convince people like you the Clintons are racists.
Swiftboating works.

[maximusveritas]

81. Huffington post was the only one to get that memo

and they said it was leaked to them, but not by the Obama campaign.

And I don't think the Clintons are racists. But they race baited in this campaign. There's no doubt about it. Black folks know it when we see it and that's why the Clintons' support evaporated after this. It's insulting for people like you to imply we were bamboozled by the Obama campaign into thinking this way. We're capable of coming to our own conclusions.

[MethuenProgressive]

86. "And I don't think the Clintons are racists." Thank you for that.

On the rest, we disagree.

[intaglio]

89. Sorry, MethuenP I took the time to read the WHOLE Huffpo item

What a pity it does so little for your case.

It "...contains mostly excerpts from different media reports. It lists the contact info and name of Obama's South Carolina press secretary, Amaya Smith, and is broken down into five incidents in which either Clinton, her husband Bill, or campaign surrogates made comments that could be interpreted as racially insensitive.

"The document provides an indication that, in private, the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view - and push the narrative - that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press."

The article also notes the "fairy tale" comment, the "Lyndon Johnson" comment, the "shuck and jive" comment, the "Nelson Mandela" implied criticism and others. Surely the inability of a campaign to moderate the errors in comments about an important Democratic demographic illustrates, at the least, cavalier attitude toward that demographic. Even if Hillary's campaign discounted the problems it might cause in a Presidential Election, they must have known that in the Primaries Obama would be seeking to use his advantage in this area.

The errors made by the Clinton Campaign were real, the foolishness of the words used by the Clinton Campaign members was real. The Obama campaign sought to highlight these mistakes, which is normal politics. In no way does it descend to the level of "Swiftboating" which was cut from a canvass of lies.

Describing the valid, if unpleasant, attacks on the Clinton Campaign as "Swiftboating" devalues the word and, personally, I find that insulting to John Kerry.

[tekisui]

79. I respect your opinion, and what you say here.

I appreciate your statement of Democratic Unity. I also will support and vote for the Democratic Nominee this Fall. Clinton or Obama.

[MethuenProgressive]

83. Domo arigato, tekisui

If the Party stays together there will be great times for us ahead.

[Beacool]

93. I agree with you about the race issue.

It was a complete turn-off for me to see how the race card was played out against the Clintons. Most rational people know that Bill's use of the word "fairy tale" had nothing to do with race. Most people also know that Hillary's comments about MLK and LBJ were historically accurate. Nevertheless, they were both painted as racists and accused of using "code words". These two people fought for civil rights way before Obama even learned how to wipe his butt, but he just stood silently and let them be pilloried by the media and other politicians.

Well, screw him!!! You may be generous of spirit and vote for him, I would rather walk on glass than vote for a guy who I think does not deserve to be president!!!!

[MethuenProgressive]

106. I thank you, and I respect your opinons.

What Obama did was disgusting.

[Cheeseburger Walrus]

94. The only constant in life...

is change, and all the burgers I'm going to buy with GWB's check!

[OnionRing Sasquatch]

100. Bingo

While, I agree with your comment, I want you to remember that there is a new fast food animal in town.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

102. Squirrel?

[OnionRing Sasquatch]

104. The difference between Fast Food and Road Kill

Squirrels and Huckabees are roadkill, not fast food animals like the Onion Ring Sasquatch, see for yourself...

[DemGa]

96. Turns out the Obama "movement" was a staged event

I thought most Dems were better at spotting this kind of thing -- I knew from the start.

I oppose Obama and his sham "movement" completely.

[Orangepeel]

101. I'm moved by the prospect of getting newcomers involved in politics

It's damned hard and I'm impressed that Obama has done it. I like both Clinton and Obama, but my support of Obama is more cognitive than emotional.

[Danger Mouse]

103. Richardson sounds like a good candidate for VP...

however...
my freeper friend said that he's the only Dem who was running that he likes.
Should that worry us?
:hi:

[JVS]

105. Fucking level 2, taking down my ignore!

:banghead:

[indimuse]

108. thx MethuenProgressive

Agree with all you wrote...I may write Hil's name in though..depends on how bho's camp behaves ...

[MethuenProgressive]

109. Thanks, indi

If I based my potential future support of Obama on how Obama has behaved, I would not vote for him.
I'll vote for him dispite his hateful sneers, his endorsement of the anti-human rights wing of His church, his disturbing Funementalist Preaching, his blatent race-baiting, and his slimey Swiftboating of the Clintons on race, because I have to Hope he'll Change.

[TheZug]

113. What's up with the quotes?

Do you also "dislike broccoli"? What will you be doing "this weekend"? Will you be checking out "the youtube"?

[Cass]

114. We are at a critical point in our history

and need someone who is more than a rock star with a good speech. We need someone with the knowledge, skills, and experience to get us on the right path again. I was initially a supporter of Senator Biden but eventually came around to Hillary Clinton after Biden dropped out. There is too much riding on this election to hand the reins over to a greenhorn.

The attacks against the Clintons have been vicious and terribly unfair, especially the racist accusations made against them. Its almost like a hobby of the media to attack the Clintons, and they've been doing it since 1992.