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“All the rules will be going out the window.”: The Moral Equivalent of Election Theft

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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:38 PM
Original message
“All the rules will be going out the window.”: The Moral Equivalent of Election Theft
I told myself a few years ago to quit using the phrase "I can't believe it". In an age where the outrages have become so regular a part of daily life in Bushmerica, the utterly unbelievable has become routine. Still, the daily headlines continue to push the envelope with sadly believable surprises.

It is with shock but no surprise that I read of "a senior Clinton official" telling Politico's Roger Simon that "all rules are out the window" in reference to campaign strategy, by stating that "pledged" delegates may now be vigorously recruited in the same fashion as super delegates are. This, supposedly in an end-run attempt to avoid the appearance of Super D's performing the subrogation for her at a brokered convention and denying the will of the people. While the Super D's are party functionaries or elites whose voting mandate is alternately described as 1) must reflect the will of the majority, or 2) must exercise their better judgement regardless of the will of the people, pledged delegates are widely regarded as virtual Electoral College votes. They are divided up in a number of different ways depending on the formula their state party uses, but ostensibly to reflect the intent of the voters first and foremost.

If the plan has now been officially denied by the Clinton campaign, it seems to follow a disturbingly predictable pattern of a surrogate chumming the media water, waiting for a response, and the campaign later denying any wrongdoing or involvement.

While the DNC rules may indeed indicate that any delegate, pledged or not, may change his or her mind, the expectation that they will has been virtually non-existent up until the current primary campaign. There simply has been no such closely divided contest heretofore where it would have made a difference, short of a mass migration. One could easily attempt to dismiss any complaints against such a tactic by arguing that both sides can take advantage of the rule(s), therefore, no foul. But whether one or both sides would choose to do so misses the point: while it may be open to debate how a super delegate casts her ballot, it should be taken as sacrosanct that a pledged delegate will remain true to the votes cast in his or her state's primary election or caucus. To do otherwise makes a mockery of the election process, rendering voters from all states irrelevant.

I am not irrelevant. You are not irrelevant. We are Democrats, members of a party whose very name honors the most defining part of a free society: open and fair elections. Our vote counts. Or it should.

I feel as strongly about this issue as any that have been raised in an already bitterly contentious contest. For any candidate (or their surrogates) to even suggest the possibility of circumventing the will of the people in such a manner is every bit as outrageous in its own way as the election theft of Supreme Court/Florida 2000.



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yeswecan2008 Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. if the Clintons had their way-everyone would be a Superdelegate!
Edited on Tue Feb-19-08 04:55 PM by yeswecan2008
why are we even having a primary if everyone can just vote how they want on the first ballot?
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. God, they are disgusting. I have had it with the Clintons.
:grr:
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Metric System Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. And I've had it with ObamaNation. n/t
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Please, leave "election theft" where it belongs - out of this mess. Like using "Hitler"
and Holocaust" for everyone we dislike.
I won't express any opinion on the delegates mess - just please. don't cheapen election theft. The NH recount attempt was embarrassing enough.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. OK, we will just leave it at 'Clinton's a crook.'
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I stand by my post. It would indeed be the moral equivalent of a Diebold hack
If the wishes of millions of voters are altered behind the scenes and after the fact, there is nothing ethically to distinguish between an e-vote theft and the cross-recruitment of pledged delegates. Both are ultimately disenfranchising.

And I try to draw the line between "fascist tendencies" and calling the current regime Hitleresque.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Since when is a recount a problem?
When I check my cashdrawer at work, I ALWAYS count it twice.

It just makes sense.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Since it's used trivially.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I'm sorry to hear you say you think that ANY voting recount is
'trivial'. There is no less trivial subject than the integrity of our elections. In many countries any vote that is within a certain margin, such as within 5%, there is an automatic recount, just to be sure, and without assigning any untoward motives to either side.

NH was less that a 3% difference. Would that have been 'trivial' if Obama had the lead instead of Clinton?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Clinton surrogates, Kiki McClean and Ann Lewis, have both been on MSNBC
today with the same talking point when asked about the race: We're not looking for votes, we're looking for delegates. Both have dismissed the importance of actual votes, probably bracing for a popular vote loss tonight, but said it was not the votes that were important, "This is about delegates".

Now, in addition to all the states that don't count and the demographics that don't count, the actual vote totals do not count. Repeated over and over "This is about delegates". Combine that with all the reports we've seen coming out about Clintonian tricks and schemes, and I think we have the strategy. Win by any method and at any cost.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. the last throes of a decaying dynasty-to-be
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. So it's all about "THE RULES!!!" until they cut the the wrong way?
Help me out here: Michigan and Florida must be disenfranchised ("it's in the RULES!") but every other DNC rule is up for re-negotiation?

Is there any rational or ethical basis for this argument? :shrug:
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Actually, it's the Hillary camp that wants FL and MI to be counted
IN SPITE of the rules, and ALSO renegotiate any other rule as they see fit.

It's a pattern with them.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Umm, the PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN want their votes counted too...
It's the Obama people (please see my avatar, btw,) who are saying the we must follow "the rules!" as to Fla and Michigan, but not as to Super Delegates, etc.

It's not a logically coherent position.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Obama wasn't on the ballot in MI.
How anyone on planet earth can countenance seating the MI delegates given this fact, is beyond me.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. That's not correct. He was on the ballot, then requested that he be removed.
"How anyone on planet earth can countenance seating the MI delegates given this fact, is beyond me."

Umm, Obama wasn't on the ballot in 2004, or 2000, or 1996 either, and our delegates were seated. So Obama being on the ballot must not be a pre-condition to a Democratic primary. :think:
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. My point is that the MI voters had NO option to vote for Obama
in the primary. Thus any seating of MI delegates -- for any candidate -- is grossly unfair.

Florida is a different kettle of fish in this regard.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. I can't remember any Primary being like this
perhaps it's been this way all along and we just were not allowed to see behind the veil.

The proverbial 'Smoke filled room' is out in the open now.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. The rules have been out the window for Hillary for the past 6 weeks.
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