Vaporous Obama Turns Off Many Centrists

[UALRBSofL]

A Commentary by Froma Harrop


SNIP:
Despite the hard contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, party leaders keep telling Democratic-leaning voters that they have two good candidates. They are right, but one of them may well be a Republican.

Far from the pumped-up Obama rallies, centrists who voted for John Kerry last time now say they are considering John McCain -- especially if the Democrat is the vaporous Obama. At least that's what many are telling me -- and I'm telling myself.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_commentary/commentary_by_froma_harrop/vaporous_obama_turns_off_many_centrists

[angie_love]

1. lol, indies and centrists will be turned off by McCain due to his little lobbyist sex scandal proble

problem. Somewhere bill clinton is laughing.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Rasmussen is a Repub pollster. And nobody is believing

that Kerry's supporters won't back Obama. That's just made-up bullshit.

edit to add: Rovian--attack Obama's strength (appeal to Indies and Repubs) by spreading rumors that "centrists" won't back him.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. Obama peeps quote Rasmussen ALL the time here when it ...oh that's right ONLY if it props up Obama

[TwilightGardener]

8. I think his polls are the most accurate, but they undercount Dem support.

I think any articles posted there are to be taken with a grain of salt.

[yurbud]

16. this aint a poll though. It's an opinion piece

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. All pollbots quote only those polls that support them.

I remember pollbots flooding DU with polls showing Hillary to be absolutely inevitable - 20 point leads all across the country.

Anybody who thinks pollsters cannot fix polls to reflect the results they want don't know the business.

Lets not forget, Mark Penn's company ran the polls in Venezuela showing that Chavez was going to lose the recent election.

The ONLY polls that are worth a shit are EXIT polls.

[ProSense]

14. It's nonsense, and doesn't explain why a significant majority are voting for Obama over Hillary. n/t

[elixir]

27. The repub voters that are supporting Obama in the primaries will not vote for him in November.

[ProSense]

54. Newsflash: Repubs and Dems always cross over, they did Clinton, Kerry and Bush.

The percentage (6-9%) of them doing so is not unusual. It could be slightly higher because the Republican candidates suck!

[Straight Shooter]

39. The same majority of people who like to look at clouds and think they see bunnies and ponies. n/t

[elixir]

25. Until you need their poll numbers, then they're fine with you.

[TwilightGardener]

28. Did you miss post #8? You must have.

[babylonsister]

3. Yep, those centrists are really spurning him.

:rofl::rofl:

[blogslut]

4. Okay Froma

You are entitled to your "opinion".

[fuzzy otter pop]

6. wow, so you are this desperate?????

strait up misleading info,

the real bottom of the barrel

give it up

you really think a win like this would be good for the party?

Hillary worship is out of control

[bunnies]

7. But... but...

I learned on DU that Obama was way to the RIGHT of Hillary. Which is it? :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

9. And they are registering their "displeasure" by voting for him.

Bastards one and all. ;)

[SteppingRazor]

10. Oh, brother.

Yeah, because the "wonky centrist" vote is such a critical voting bloc. I agree with another poster in this thread -- this is a purely political attack in the Rovian style. Attack them where they are strongest.

Obama has proven time and again in primary after primary that he wins over indies and centrists, regardless of what this Froma person tells herself, even when reinforced by these ephemeral "people" that are also telling it to her.

[cali]

11. Froma Harrop

great name. Who is the little wingnut? How sad that hill's supporters are reduced to scouring the bottom basement for obscure wingnuts to rely on.

[TwilightGardener]

15. Repubs love Rasmussen's site. I think this article is to tell Repubs that

they shouldn't support Obama, because EVEN the hated John Kerry is to the right of Obama, supposedly. I don't think this is targeted at Dems.

[jkshaw]

38. I read Harrop's entire piece, cali

and she makes no bones about her dislike of Obama. The writer appears to be definitely NOT unbiased. But perhaps I notice that because I'm biased -- toward Barack Obama.

[madrchsod]

41. vaporous means ya smell like shit

[madrchsod]

40. we have better writers on this board

nancy greggs is far than froma..i get the vibe from froma that she thinks she`s "it" and we should really care what she thinks

[Guava Jelly]

12. Take another hit

[TwilightGardener]

17. LOL! I love that horse graphic!

[Skoods]

21. Can we stop?

Can we stop acting with such animosity towards supporters of the other candidate?

We are on the same team. Both hoping to bring strong Democratic leadership back to the White House in November. We don't need the distasteful attacks on people.

I'm not a Clinton supporter. I'm not an Obama supporter. I'm a Democratic Party supporter.

[Tyler Durden]

34. That's what's killing the party.

And it's just as bad in the real world. All you have to do is talk, read and discuss.

We really blew this election, and we are blowing the "Save."

[Guava Jelly]

51. I would love too.. and honestly I haven't started

I have been extremely neutral and polite.
But when you see thread ,after thread, after thread ,of complete hogwash.
It starts to tear at you.
I have no problem with Clinton Supporters.
Many are good friends.I wish her luck.
But for anyone to believe the fantasy depicted in this thread title they would have to be high.
Moderates and independents have been swarming toward Obama not away it is a fact..

[book_worm]

13. yet in the RAS polls and other polls Obama is winning against McCain while Clinton is losing.

[nolabels]

60. Do the math

The amount of people voting for democratic party candidates is 2 to 1 as opposed to republicans. Can you postulate why that is?

[Renew Deal]

18. Sorry, but that hasn't panned out in polling.

Obama is winning Indies big, and getting more of them than McCain.

[Skoods]

24. Not so fast..

Yes, and a month ago Hillary was beating Obama by 20% in the polls.

And four months ago, McCain was in single digits in the polls.

Polls change like the weather.

[Renew Deal]

36. I'm not talking about polls

I'm talking about election results.

[Skoods]

45. No..

You said that based on opinion polling that Obama is beating McCain and Hillary is losing (albeit slightly and within the margin of error).

The bad news for Obama is that he hasn't had any of the bad things come out about him yet. Once his past comes out, he could be in trouble.

Everyone already knows about Hillary's flaws and she is still right there with McCain.

[Renew Deal]

52. I did say polling.

I meant to say actual results. But talking about polls, Hillary is losing badly and outside of the margin of error in many polls.

Please tell me about all the bad stuff that are going to come out about Obama. I'm not afraid of smear merchants such as yourself. You're right. Everyone knows how terrible Hillary is. That's why she's losing so badly.

[Skoods]

68. Polls

Fox News/Opinion Dynamics Poll - Feb 19/20, 2008 - MOE +/- 3%

John McCain - 47%
Hillary Clinton - 44%

Barack Obama - 47%
John McCain - 43%


That's within the margin of error for Clinton.

And don't call me a smear merchant. I support both candidates, i'm just sick of Hillary getting a raw deal by the media and closed minded Obama supporters.

[Omega3]

44. again, for the last time you ppl, the Repuke primary is done, many states have open primaries, there

is trememdous crossover by Repukes voting in the Dem primaries. McCain is also very centrist, he'll also appeal to centrists, indies, cons. Dems, Kerry was up by 20% on Bush as well. I'm sorry but this election, no matter who the Dem nominee is, is not a given.

[Renew Deal]

53. Who people?

Who is you people? I don't think the election is a given either. I also know that Hillary lost registered Democrats in Wisconin. She's also lost them in her other blowouts.

[Thrill]

19. LOL. BS

Obama is far far left of McCain.

[Neshanic]

20. Computer generated Obama supporter response/5782BFqR3/Attack rating 7

[bowens43]

22. Yes, that's why they voted for him in record numbers

in the primaries.....you people are hilarious.

[RBInMaine]

23. Propaganda, and MANY "Centrists" are with Obama.

Hm, I guess all those Indys and cross over R's in Wisonsin were just misplaced liberals. Hm. We haven't seen this broad a coaltion for a Dem primary candidate in quite some time. (And we NEED a big tent coaltion to win the GE, make no mistake about that.)

[scheming daemons]

26. In another thread, a Clinton-ite just said that Obama is too liberal....

which is it?

[formernaderite]

29. doesn't matter right now...all candidates turn to the center

after the primary is over. We're just having a long season

[UALRBSofL]

30. formernaderite now that is the truth

I remember all candidates becoming centrist after an election. Even Bush became somewhat centrist after his strong right wing campaign and it was obvious to see with all the spending.

[Avalux]

32. LOL - she'd pick McShame? Please don't post this junk here. n/t

[jpak]

33. Yup - all those Republic Centrists will flock to Clinton if she is the nominee

What a steaming heap...

[melody]

35. And centrists are going to support "Bomb-Bomb-Iran" over Obama?

Not going to happen.

[madrchsod]

37. oh my ,barack has the vapors'

oh my oh my, what ever should he do......

[Barack_America]

42. Yeah, that explains the overwhelming Indie support.

:eyes:

[Tom Joad]

43. so *that's* why obama keeps losing!!

[Lerkfish]

46. centrists were never concerned about abandoning the more numerous leftwing democrats

so now they are suddenly saying they'll vote republican if we don't nominate Clinton.

well, how wierd.

[MadHound]

47. Wait a minute, this guy is claiming Obama can't attract centerists,

Yet there's been another post today complaining about open primaries, because then Obama benefits from the votes cast by Republicans, Independents and. . .centerists.

The convolutions and permutations that Hillary's supporters go through for their candidate, it's going to be a wonder if the ever will walk or talk straight again.

[closeupready]

48. who cares? He's winning. And as triangulators lecture the rest of us, winning elections is all tha

that matters. so forget centrists.

[demo dutch]

64. You're forgetting that the vast majority of this country is somwhere in the center!

[closeupready]

65. Yeah, near St. Louis, if I recall correctly. But I still say California and New York should count!

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

49. Thanks, I need a rationale to explain Obama's 10th straight losing streak. Oh, WAIT!?!

:crazy:

[KaptBunnyPants]

50. The center wants to be in Iraq for 1000 years?

nt

[karynnj]

55. Obama is closer to Kerry than HRC, which is why Kerry endorsed him

This is a ridiculous opinion piece. The only substance was the relatively close exit poll question on who you would vote for if the choice were McCain or the other candidate. There were some problems with this - in addition to the lack of a significant difference. One, it was NY, Clinton's state and it was asked while both were viable. It clearly contradicts the results of the simple head to head question - where Obama does much better.

Also, who are the "centrists who voted for Kerry"? She's looking at primary exit polls. Kerry did win many independents and even Republicans - but people in those Demographics like Obama better. Who won the red states in the primaries - I bet some people voting were those "centrists for Kerry"? Everyone can site a friend's actions, but extrapolating them to the population is not good analysis.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

56. Does that mean he has superpowers that turn him into vapor? Cool. n/t

[cottonseed]

57. Thank you for posting this. Nice to see what some tools are saying.

The ideas in these 2 paragraphs have been way overplayed:

:: SNIP ::

"And at that time, the news media were still lavishing love on Obama. That situation is about to end. "He's the fashion plate of the moment," an editorial page editor remarked, "but fashion week is over.""

"Sophisticated commentary now notes the growing creepiness of the Obama campaign: Its aversion to substantive policy discussions. The sermonizing -- "In the face of despair, we believe there can be hope." And the messianic bit -- "At this moment in the election there is something happening in America." (That would be he.)"

:: END ::

What I find fascinating, is that there are people willing to pay a person for this recycled drivel. The guy managed to weave in fashion week and messianic sermonizing in just 2 paragraphs. I'm not sure if that's skill or just dumb luck.

[Raydawg1234]

58. just another useless op-ed

[northernsoul]

59. This opinion piece provides no empirical evidence for its assertions

n/t

[LadyVT]

61. right-now Bush has adopted Obama's position on Pakistan military strikes

[demo dutch]

62. That's all I hear from all the Indies I know!

[kentuck]

63. And it doesn't take a lot of vapors to turn off the "centrists".

They are the cornerstone of the DLC and a more vaporous bunch would be hard to find.

[Tom Rinaldo]

66. I wouldn't dismiss this message

McCain reprents substance and he has always appealed to independents, who tend to like substance in a candidate - that's often one reason why they stay away from identifying with a Political Party, they prefer to study the merrits of individual candidates. If Obama becomes our nominee he will need to run a very different type of campaign than the one he as used to win over those who vote in Demoratic primarys.

[kenfrequed]

67. There are no "centrists"

It is the centrists that are vaporous. They simply do not exist. Ask people about the issues and the majority will inadvertantly identify as liberal/progressive, of course many people will gravitate towards "strong-man" personalities despite their own economic and civic interests (see also -tough talking repug-niks).

People have a stance on the environment, reproductive freedom, corporations, war, militarism, immigration, healthcare, and eductation. Very few people are "centrists" on these issues. Centrism is a media concoction that blinds us to the issues by failing to mention them. News stories obsess mindlessly about the "undecideds" in any given election without attempting to inform anyone of substantive differences between the candidates.

This is magnified by never-ending process stories that make you less knowledgable about the candidates stances the longer you watch. It is measured like a weigh in for a pro boxer:
"Well candidate x's fundraising is on fire" "Candidate Y is polling real well towards the coveted under-water basket weaver-college majors" "candidate Z was caught lowering their flag too soon before sunset, how will that affect voter perception of patriotism?"

Such nonsense

[closeupready]

69. you ever notice that nobody on the right ever suggests to the GOP to appeal to centrists?

If anything, their message is never right enough. Meanwhile, here on the left side of the aisle, we hear voices telling us to compromise our principles to attract more voters. I think we've had just about enough of that.

[kenfrequed]

70. Tell me about it.

And the same rouge gallery of Hoyers, Emmanuals, Froms, and Fords telling us how we need to compromise, even as they decide to cynically adopt the term progressive and apply it to themselves. Damned DLC.

Personally my solution is to get as excited as possible about the local races in my state.