If Hillary's and Obama's universal healthcare plans are so good, why FORCE us into them?

[derby378]

Something just doesn't add up here. Someone please help me out... :shrug:

[reality based]

1. If Social Security is so good why force everybody to participate?

[derby378]

3. Two points...

(1) Social Security has an "opt-out" option.
(2) Social Security, for the time being, is not run by a for-profit corporation.

[democrattotheend]

6. It does?

How can I opt out of Social Security?

[splat]

8. Social Security was a govt response to the Depression; no opt out

Starving grandmas is no good for America

[derby378]

14. My bad...

I thought there was one, just one that isn't used much. From Wikipedia:

There is no legal requirement for individuals to join the Social Security program. The Social Security Act does not require a person to have a Social Security Number (SSN) to live and work in the United States. Any "duty" to apply for and obtain a Social Security number can be summarized in this way: you get it if you need it or request it. There is no legal compulsion to do so. However, once joined there is no general provision for individuals to opt out of or quit the program. The FICA taxes imposed are mandatory on all workers and the self-employed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)

[busymom]

2. because...

if you allow people to opt out of getting into the program, many will. There are many people who consider themselves to be healthy enough who want to do other things with the litle bit of extra money. When disaster strikes, it's the rest of us who end up paying the price bill when they do end up in the hospital.

Requiring everyone to have coverage will ultimately lower costs.

[derby378]

5. But isn't this forcing people into underperforming HMOs?

Many of which are run by unscrupulous, predatory corporations whose bean-counters think nothing of denying life-saving procedures to those who truly need them? This is the part that I do no understand at all.

[busymom]

10. No

Clinton said she would open up the congressional plan.

[derby378]

12. That's encouraging

Sorry I've been away. I'd like to see how that gets implemented, though.

[yellowdogintexas]

11. more likely to be PPO "preferred provider Organizations" where there

is a discounting network, which any provider can join, and you choose your docs from there, big discount if you stay in the network, no gatekeepers and other bean counting applications. I haven't been offered an HMO option for a LONG time

[derby378]

13. I'm in a PPO, myself

I've been to a few job interviews where my prospective boss would say "we offer affordable and competitive health care, we've got an HMO," and I always wonder if the interviewer sees my smile tighten up a little.

PPO is pretty cool. The only problem is that the insurance company running the PPO still has final say over what drugs you can and cannot buy under the plan. At least, for now....

[yellowdogintexas]

15. yeah, they do that and sometimes they will make you try OTC meds

before approving an RX, or make you drag out an inevitable surgery by trying all known prescription drug resources first. However, PPO and EPO as they are designed now are miles ahead of the HMO, DEATH to Gatekeepers!

[sandnsea]

4. Children's health care is cheap

And we already have SCHIP in every state to help parents purchase it. There's no reason for parents to not get health insurance for their kids.

We don't have a plan for adults, which is the exact reason Obama doesn't want to put mandates in at the beginning. Which is the exact position of John Edwards, if he were man enough to stand up and say so.

[derby378]

7. I think SCHIP is a step in the right direction...

I can tell, because Bush has been working against it in recent months.

[dflprincess]

9. The real question is,

if Hillary's and Obama's universal health"care" plans are so good for us - why aren't the for profit insurance companies screaming about how awful they are?

[suston96]

16. Why? For the same reason you are "pressured" to pay for Social Security and Medicare.....

....which you won't be able to use until after 65 years of age. They are social contracts we make to secure our old age.

Health care for everyone is a new attempt to have the society we created secure a major deficiency in that society's protective mandates.

[yellowdogintexas]

17. if everyone is IN the risk pool includes tons of healthy people,

and with more contributing the costs can be driven down. Greater negotiating power @ the discount level, less premium required etc.

it is the same reason a company with 10000 employees will have more affordable and better coverage than a company with 1000 employees. Spreading the risk and the cost. Don't even think about a company with fewer than 100 employees in this comparison, because they can't afford the coverage available

I used to process physician claims for Medicare Part B, and after working in that industry for many years I have always felt that if everyone in the country who doesn't have affordable employer based insurance were pooled, it would be so much better.

let's say 4 million members in our pool here and charge them an arbitrary $10 per person per month = $40 million .. x12 months in a year = 480 million.
annually. The employer kicks in another $10 per month per employee and you have another 480 million.
Considering probably half of these people will not use more than well child, occasional dr visit for sinusitis or minor illnesses, flu shots, prescription drugs, mammograms etc, per year and you have a sizable fund. I used these numbers for simplicity, but you get the drift. Even if it were $20 per person from the employee and $40 from the employer, look what that does to the numbers and the amount available.

The uninsured in this country are not all healthy of course, but many of them are, and they are working for small companies who are totally shut out of the group insurance industry as we know it. Too rich for Medicaid, too strapped for individual coverage (now THAT is really expensive) too young for Medicare and just one calamity away from financial disaster.

sorry about the rant, this is just one of my BIG PERSONAL ISSUES LOL

and derby, how's everything at your house, anyway?

[derby378]

20. Things are improving a little...

ginbarn no longer needs a walker, which is really good news. She told me today that the doctors had said she'd need the walker for the rest of her life. Wouldn't it be so great to prove them wrong!

Of course, we're not surrendering the handicapped placard just yet. There's still a ways to go, but ginbarn has been recovering nicely.

Thanks for asking! :hi:

[yellowdogintexas]

22. good news. Love to Ginbarn by the way.

and keep your wheelchair sign because you never know when she is going to have a bad day.

[Hieronymus]

18. I'd expect this from a freeper site.

[rodeodance]

24. Last time I looked they seldom participate in good discussion. We are attempting to do that. Are you

[Little Star]

19. Social Security ring a bell?

[JoFerret]

21. Oh dear - where to start

I think maybe it's hopeless.

Do you see anything at all wrong with the way things are right now?

Why change? We are perfect just the way we are. Right?

[baldguy]

23. Because universal healthcare plans only work

If they're UNIVERSAL.

The people most likely to be uninsured are those who have been denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions, and those who are healthy & what to spend their money elsewhere. Those who need it & those who would pay for it.

[rodeodance]

25. A universal plan will address the "common good"--a concept on which our

founding fathers embodied and is encompassed in the term "society"

[suston96]

26. Sorry, your headline makes no sense.

Universal Health Care means everybody is covered. If everyone is covered and pays into it the costs go down because many people, maybe most people stay healthy most of the time. But they keep paying into the system..

I have been drawing Social security for a number of years and according to my Social Security account, I long ago passed what I contributed over the working years.

A few years ago I had a very expensive brain operation at a very famous Boston Hospital paid for by Medicare.

A functional society created by people takes nominal care of its members. A great society secures the health and welfare of all its members equally and fairly with meticulous detail and personalized attentiveness.