TPM reports Hillary's closing was "borrowed" from Bill Clinton (1992)

[wndycty]

-snip-
9:46 PM ... That was an interesting final moment to end on for Hillary. Candy Crowley is on CNN now saying how it was a good connect moment for HIllary, which I suspect it may have been. But we all do remember that those words were borrowed from Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign, right?
-snip-
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/179590.php

Oh, Oh!

[bluestateguy]

1. I noticed that right away

Under Hillary's own standard (not mine), that's plagiarism.

Impacting... :nuke:

[liberalnurse]

101. She may indeed wrote it with her husband.

It's amazing what happens between the sheets.O8)

[plastichallway]

104. Um You'll need to put 2 transcripts side by side

instead of sending out empty innuendo that Obama folk are famous for.
This doesn't sound by any means like the word for word parroting
Obama did.

[Kikosexy2]

151. I'm shocked,...

shocked...I tell ya'....yyyyawwwwnnn....plagarisms...big freakin' deal...who cares...just Vote Smart and stay away from Oprah or news media who gush over one candidate over the other...

[NoodleyAppendage]

2. WE NEED A TRANSCRIPT. If she plagarized her husband's 1992 speech then BRING IT OUT.

I would love nothing more than to see the Royal DINO/DLC Hillary get caught plagarizing herself.

J

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

47. Link r/e Bills 1992 comments

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DF1E3CF937A35752C1A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

[Coexist]

82. Not to mention that line was in the movie Primary Colors, too

http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/003724.html

Jack Stanton speech, in Primary Colors (New York: Random House, 1996), p. 162: "Y'know, I've taken some hits in this campaign. It hasn't been easy for me, or my family. It hasn't been fair, but it hasn't been anything compared to the hits a lot of you take every day."

Clinton also said it in his New Hampshire speech in 1992

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=231808

"The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of New Hampshire are taking every day." Bill Clinton

[bjobotts]

159. It's a real stretch and is used to minimize Obama's blantant inspirational faking

[Schema Thing]

3. shit!... and I teared up?

go I'm easy!

[plastichallway]

105. if you believe everything Obama bloggers say

you are most definitely easy.

[Adelante]

117. Welcome to DU, plastichallway

:hi:

[bjobotts]

161. GOP, Obama & MSM's main goal was to eliminate Clinton. Now they will start on O

Being blind to his defects, or his conservatism will only come back to hurt progressives and Liberals. Buy into that personality worship or see the candidate as a rep of what we want and press them to accomplish that. I won't just "accept" what is offered because a "good" guy is offering it. I want to see an end to Friedman economics and American imperialism. Less wealth concentrated into the hands of too few people (about 500 families) means more to be shared by the (non-existent)middle class and the poor, and to our infrastructure and the quality of life.
And here we are being distracted by discussions of genuineness. Obama wins but what do we win. Clinton wins but what do we win. Will O listen to YOU. Did Pelosi? Did Bush?
One party...the money party...with 2 faces...and right now we have the chance to dominate one of those faces but that is worth nothing unless we get "Real" change and not just a diaper change.

Clinton may have used a few lines but Obama used a whole speech and all of his inspirational slogans from others. Rather than refuse to acknowledge that, I recognize it and was deeply disappointed and as a consequence I listen with more of a discriminating ear. Recognizing what is, is not an attack or a smear it is an ism. Neither of these candidates are exactly what I wanted or even close but they are 100X's better than the alternatives. I keep my eyes open trying to maintain clarity and not blind discipleship. I also understand that no body's hands are completely clean.

[tridim]

4. Ouch.

Not a good move Hillary.

Her only hope is that Obama's campaign doesn't bother responding. She's probably counting on that.

[GoldieAZ49]

6. the press will do it, thanks to the bloggers

[tridim]

7. I bet they already know it, I haven't heard anything yet.

[AX10]

5. Marshall has his guns out for Hillary.

[NashVegas]

27. Josh Does Great Reporting & Analysis, But He Is a Corp-Friendly Party Guy

When you get down to it.

He was all about going into Iraq during the lead up to war; it was only two-three weeks before it actually came when he had his "oh, shit!" moment and realized Bush was going to botch it entirely.

I don't expect to ever see him stray too far from his friends at TNR.

[AX10]

31. I don't consider him a credible source of information.

[CreekDog]

73. How about the New York Times' Anna Quindlen?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DF1E3CF937A35752C1A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

One night I saw Bill Clinton on the news say, "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time." And I began to believe that he saw us. I began to believe that growing up struggling to make ends meet, learning to live with an alcoholic parent, losing the governor's office because of the hubris of the young and cocky, and taking the hits about infidelity, patriotism and moral spine that he had taken during this campaign might have taught him something about hard times.

AX try not to be such a hack.

[Garbo 2004]

92. TPM just won Polk award for uncovering US attorneys firings scandal:

The Polk Award for Legal Reporting will go to Joshua Micah Marshall, editor and publisher of the widely read political blog, Talking Points Memo. His sites, www.talkingpointsmemo.com and www.tpmMuckraker.com, led the news media in coverage of the politically motivated dismissals of United States attorneys across the country. Noting a similarity between firings in Arkansas and California, Marshall and his staff (with his staff reporter-bloggers Paul Kiel and Justin Rood) connected the dots and found a pattern of federal prosecutors being forced from office for failing to do the Bush Administration's bidding. Marshall’s tenacious investigative reporting sparked interest by the traditional news media and led to the resignation of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. http://www.brooklyn.liu.edu/polk/press/2007.html

[Shakespeare]

93. It's just mind-boggling that anybody on DU would badmouth TPM.

Just like it's mind-boggling that some here are now trashing Olbermann. People need to get a fucking grip--this place has gone insane.

[CreekDog]

72. So what if he does, it appears he is right on this

What say you about what she did?

[Shakespeare]

89. No, he doesn't, and TPM is one of the best online news sites out there.

They just won a Polk award for single-handedly forcing the AG scandal into widespread coverage. They exposed it, and stayed on it until other news outlets finally picked it up.

Up has truly turned into down around here when good guys like Josh Marshall get trashed. :crazy:

[Colobo]

8. Wow... that would be sweet!

[Johnny__Motown]

9. A XEROXED CLOSING STATEMENT??? No Way...

[apocalypsehow]

10. LOL!

n/t

[Coexist]

12. TPM is respected - think media types check it out?

[Johnny__Motown]

17. I have no idea but I am kinda shocked. I am an Obama guy but hope this isn't true

[Coexist]

24. I can't find a transcript on these damn tubes

they must be clogged again!

[CreekDog]

81. I remember the line being used in "Primary Colors"

by Susan Stanton.

My ears perked up during the debate when Hillary said, "The hits I've taken..."

I was like, "Holy Sh$#! She just bashed Obama for using someone else's words."

[rhett o rick]

91. Funny, I thought you were a McBush guy. nm

[RoadRage]

147. It was actually photo-copied....

The clintons had cash back in January, so they upgraded all of their equipment. ;)

[NJSecularist]

11. Wow.... I hope Obama's campaign leaks this out to the press

[doni_georgia]

142. Absolutely not! That would be extremely stupid - something a novice would do

If you are the front runner and your opponent's campaign appears in self-destruct mode, you stay on message. You certainly do not give credence to the opponent's attack by drawing any reference to it by trying to turn the tables. That would show guilt.

[Culture Warrior 2]

13. You'd think she'd be more careful...

She painted herself in a corner starting this plagiarism stuff.

[NoodleyAppendage]

16. Her being hypocritical would be par for the course. I hope she chokes on her words.

Karma is a bitch.

J

[Tennessee Gal]

14. Bull. She too smart to have done something like that.

[NoodleyAppendage]

35. Eat your delusion. MSNBC just reported that she STOLE her closing from Edwards and Big Dog.

Sorry to burst your denial, but your "girl" is a hypocritical fraud.

J

[bluerum]

110. MSNBC - paragon of truthiness.

[CreekDog]

83. Everyone's saying it because she did use the words

And they've been used before.

Yes, colossal blunder, but only because she mocked Obama for using other's words. If she hadn't, then this line would have been a great moment for her, now it's just hypocrisy and hubris.

And DailyKos will love this.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. I think we'll need a little more evidence

than an assertion on a live blog. Are we really to believe Josh Marshall remembers the exact closing of the '92 debates?

[BeyondGeography]

21. Josh loves the Clintons

he just might know something here.

[MonkeyFunk]

22. Huh?

From where I stand, he's been pretty anti-Clinton recently.

Nonetheless, a little more evidence is required.

[BeyondGeography]

30. Recently, everyone's been hard on them

and, yes, he needs to back those words up now that he's got us all atwitter.

It wouldn't suprise me is the "hits that I've taken are nothing compared with what the American people are taking out there every day" line was appropriated. That does sound very familiar.

And, before this gets out of control (which it always does), I do want you to know that I found her very endearing throughout that closing speech, expecially when she reached out to Barack, said she was proud to be there with him and shook his hand. Nobody can say that was plagiarized.

[ProSense]

18. An echo from Hillary (this portion Edwards)

An echo from Hillary

Several readers, and Obama's staff, heard an echo in Clinton's closing line, that the candidates on stage would be "fine."

Clinton Tonight: ?

You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about.?

Edwards the December 13 debate:

?What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.?

Some borrowing is fairly normal. What's been striking about the two Obama moments is that they were almost verbatim. This one isn't that; but it's still pretty striking.

[JDPriestly]

154. This line about being OK was repeated over and over by Edwards.

I listened to a lot of his speeches. I could be wrong, but I think he was using it as far back as Iowa. Hillary said she had talked to Edwards. He may have repeated it to her in that conversation. Edwards kept his balance throughout his campaign. He wanted to win, but he always kept what was really important in the forefront of his mind as reflected in his statements and speeches.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with candidates using the same line every once in a while. What is wrong is Clinton's overfocusing on that and trying to make it a "gotcha" thing. It isn't.

Other than that, as a true to the end Edwards supporter, I thought Hillary won the debate last night. I missed Edwards, but of the remaining two debaters, Hillary did the best job. For the first time, she was relaxed, at peace with herself . . . . She didn't seem so arrogant and know-it-allish.

[dsc]

19. funny though he forgot to give us a link so we could see for ourselves

I didn't see the debate tonight and apparenty it isn't being replayed, so I can't know. But it seems to me if it really had been borrowed a link would have been forthcoming.

[MagickMuffin]

88. C-SPAN 2 will broadcast the debate @ 7:00 am tomorrow, set your dvr

Left hand side, second post


http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

THAT LINE
I mentioned at the end of my debate blog that the pivot of Hillary's powerful concluding remarks came from Bill Clinton's 92 campaign. Clinton had various permutations to it back then. But TPM Reader CG found one example in this November 1992 article by Anna Quindlen ...

Clinton, 92: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

Hillary Clinton, tonight: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."

Just to be 100% clear, there's nothing in the least wrong with this. And it's a great line. But I think it shows the silliness of the 'plagiarism' charges based on a few borrowed lines. Politicians borrow good lines and catch-phrases. Happens all the time. There's nothing wrong with it.

--Josh Marshall

[dsc]

108. actually, unlike Obama, she put the statement in her own words

which isn't plagiarism.

[MagickMuffin]

114. Actually, Obama stated very clearly Gov. Patrick suggested Obama use his speech

as he stated in the debate.

Which isn't plagiarism.

[dsc]

150. after the fact

and yes it still is dishonest. Just as if a student of mine copies his friends homework.

[MagickMuffin]

160. I saw a post earlier that has a video link to B. Clinton from his speech using that phrase

Apparently used the exact same lines. Oh well, I guess she's allowed to steal from her husband.

I found the link and the video link is below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7Cs3QvT3U

Check it out for yourself.

[dsc]

163. They are not the exact same words

I just got done listening and while not a lot different they are different.

[More Than A Feeling]

20. I thought she borrowed it from John Edwards.

He had the whole "everyone on this stage is going to be fine" riff.

[Renew Deal]

23. It reminded me of Edwards

[Sensitivity]

25. CNN -- Part of Edwards prior debate closing. Hillary finds her voice -- its Bill and Johnnie's

[jillan]

26. That is a bunch of shit - and you know it!

Why do Obama supporters always have to stoop so low??

How can her talking about the Intrepid Center, which just opened 2 years ago, be stolen from a speech in the 90's?

[wndycty]

28. Well lets see what the researchers find overnight. . .LOL

:kick:

[TheZug]

44. Nice try.

The proof is in the pudding.

Wouldn't have been an issue if she hadn't turned it into one.

[KittyWampus]

63. Here you go, read it and weep

Clinton, 92: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

Hillary Clinton, tonight: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."

[Straight Shooter]

74. "Oh, God."

So condemn me, I just plagiarized Jesus.

Really, this was not a prepared speech, it was an extemporaneous answer to a question. The same sentiment, expressed in different words, is really not plagiarism.

Jesus Christ.

Oh, condemn me again, I just plagiarized Pontius Pilate.

[grantcart]

80. how long before we get the you tube?

[Catherine Vincent]

29. If this was true and she did use it maybe it's her right.

For all we know she may have written that for Big Dog.

[NoodleyAppendage]

32. Keep on justifying her hypocrisy and continue to delude yourself. n/t

J

[Coexist]

33. KO just covered it - part from Edwards, part from Bill circa 1992 - quote and link:

"The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of New Hampshire are taking every day."
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=231808

[NoodleyAppendage]

34. KEITH! Keith just reported on MSNBC that she STOLE her closing from Edwards and Big Dog.

Hillary Clinton. A prime example of a hypocritical pain in the ass.

J

[Kaylee]

36. After the stink her campaign made and

continued to make during the debate (Xerox line)....she really should've stayed away from using anyone else's words as her own. Kind of takes the shine off an otherwise wonderful closing.

[NoodleyAppendage]

38. "Shooting yourself in the foot" should be the theme of her failed primary bid. n/t

J

[Shakespeare]

50. I think that's the whole point here.

What Obama did was harmless, and what she did tonight was harmless. But shame on Mark Penn (or whoever it was in her campaign) for trying to make an issue of it--and how stupid of them to then turn right around and do the same thing.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tammywammy]

39. I love you Ronny!

:hug:

Here's a kitten:

[ronnykmarshall]

40. ahhhhh!

I love you too!

I just sometimes can't stand the shit in here.

Hillary showed her heart tonight ... but that's not good enought for a LOT of the fuckers in here.

[tammywammy]

42. I thought it was a very nice closing statement

I think yes it was similar to what others "said," but it seemed very genuine.

Here's another kitten:

[ronnykmarshall]

52. Looks like one of mine.

Well not really. They work the food.

But they are digging the new bathroom. I got up in the middle of the night and two of them were playing in the tub. (?) Crazy fuckers!

[tammywammy]

60. One of my kittes does that

This is her:
I call that her slut pose.


Here she is all hopped up on catnip


I have a cast iron tub so it's always nice and cool in there. She loves it.

[ronnykmarshall]

62. LOL!!

You work that cast iron tub!!!

[NoodleyAppendage]

41. Good riddance. Freeperland would love to have you. Now...git. n/t

J

[Bushwick Bill]

53. Easy, NA...

We're going to need a lot of support when ronnyk's candidate is knocked out in a couple of weeks. ;-)

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ikonoklast]

43. Off switch. Use it.

You better check yourself before you wreck yourself.


A bit over the top of a response, don't you think?

[ronnykmarshall]

55. Fuck no.

[Catherine Vincent]

49. Thanks.

That definitely needed to be said. :hi:

[Horse with no Name]

54. What you said

:thumbsup:

[donheld]

58. It's ok Ronny it really is

:hug: Don't let it get to you.

[rodeodance]

45. YAWN

[Shakespeare]

46. Josh Marshall elaborates here:

That Line

I mentioned at the end of my debate blog that the pivot of Hillary's powerful concluding remarks came from Bill Clinton's 92 campaign. Clinton had various permutations to it back then. But TPM Reader CG found one example in this November 1992 article by Anna Quindlen ...

Clinton, 92: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

Hillary Clinton, tonight: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."

Just to be 100% clear, there's nothing in the least wrong with this. And it's a great line. But I think it shows the silliness of the 'plagiarism' charges based on a few borrowed lines. Politicians borrow good lines and catch-phrases. Happens all the time. There's nothing wrong with it.

--Josh Marshall

[AgadorSparticus]

48. wow. just wow. I'm speechless.....

[Horse with no Name]

51. It's very possible SHE wrote that line in 1992

so therefore...wouldn't that make it HERS?

[scheming daemons]

57. So you're saying the Big Dawg is a plagiarizer? Wow....

....

[TheZug]

59. Oh, so she was just putting words in Willie's mouth?

Like she accused David Axelrod of doing for Obama?

Then Bill should have credited her for the words!

That means she's married to a plagiarist!!!!

Oh, the sweet irony.

[Horse with no Name]

64. Did I miss that David Axelrod was married to Obama???

:wow:
That is big news--we know that husbands and wives NEVER share their thoughts, their hopes, their dreams...
Wow...just fucking wow!!Whodathunkit--David Axelrod married to Obama and sharing speech ideas.
I'm surprised that this hasn't made the news yet!

[jackson_dem]

68. lol!

:thumbsup:

[TheZug]

69. Ohhhh, so it's okay to write lines for your spouse.

What page of the Official Plagiarism Guidelines is that on?

Please, stop. You're only embarrassing yourself more.

[grantcart]

79. not if your making a big deal out of it in the debate

[polmaven]

118. OK, so.....

The "words" speech was written 2+ years ago for Obama and just tested out by Governor Patrick during his campaign.....Do I have that right? :shrug:

[scheming daemons]

77. Got it. Plagiarizing from family members = ok. Plagiarizing from friends = NOT ok.

....at least we know the rules now.

[Captain Hilts]

61. She's allowed to. She probably helped write the original. Most First Ladies do. nt

[MadBadger]

65. Yea, I'm sure pickles does that too.

[Horse with no Name]

66. She just helps George with one-syllable words. Those are tough for him. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

70. Nearly ALL first ladies go over major speeches because they are better at understanding...

the language and tone of the president. I think this even antedates Eleanor Roosevelt.

VERY common practice.

[TheZug]

76. Yeah, this is on page 429 of the Official Guide to Plagiarism.

[CreekDog]

67. This wouldn't have been an issue if she hadn't made it an issue in the SAME DEBATE!

and if she hadn't made a big deal of the practice for the past week.

sheesh.

sometimes i think she's just politically tone deaf, but that's not it.

the problem is that she does not see herself objectively.

[stillrockin]

71. Shocked. I am simply shocked.

[IndianaGreen]

75. Politico quoting John Edwards 13 December 2007 debate

An echo from Hillary

Several readers, and Obama's staff, heard an echo in Clinton's closing line, that the candidates on stage would be "fine."

Clinton Tonight:

You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about.?

Edwards the December 13 debate:

?What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

[Thrill]

78. Stealing from Edwards and Billy

I guess thats to be expected now. She has to pull out all the stops

[derby378]

84. Atlantic.com now reporting on Hillary's alleged plagiarism

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/02/who_you_calling_a_plagiarist.php

[derby378]

85. TheAtlantic.com now reporting on Hillary's alleged plagiarism

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/02/who_you_calling_a_plagiarist.php

[TheZug]

86. Make bed, lie in it.

[BenDavid]

87. hey obama folks if you going to let obama borrow his words

from his old pal deval then why not hrc borrowing from bill? you cannot be critical about it because you been defending this empty suit and his borrowing for a week now...

[ClassWarrior]

90. I don't see anybody accusing her of plagiarism.

Looks like people are just pointing out the borrowing. Do you have a problem with that?

NGU.

[UndergroundEcoHound]

94. I don't think it's the point of the borrowing...

It would rather seem that her hypocrisy on the matter are the main focal point. She, for instance, chastises Obama and then leeches off of Bill and John to finish the debate. Hell, I know every politician borrows sometime during the ridiculous multitudes of speeches they are required to give...consciously or subconsciously.

[ErnestoG]

97. ...make sure he steals them like Hillary did?

[JTFrog]

111. No one cares who's words she used beyond the HYPOCRISY of her criticism of Obama.

Karma is a bitch.

[polmaven]

122. Except that....

The whole point of the crticism last night was that much of Obama's campaign is based on his words...Hillary's is not...Hillary's is based on "Solutions".

"If your are gong to base your campaign on words,you should make sure they are your own words."

Barack last night kept referring to "a line" and "the line"......The "words" flap was/is much more than a line. It was an entire passage, and the whole point of the speech...Just words.

That whole segment of the speech was based on his words.....should it not have been, then, his own words?

[AtomicKitten]

145. karma is indeed a bitch

[CatnHat]

95. This whole thread

is beyond meaningless. It would be funny, if it wasn't so pathetic. Thread after thread, some Obama supporters never seem to get tired of conjuring up totally weird stuff. :crazy:

[Divine Discontent]

96. I concur

I'm an Obama backer, because of no John, but this is silly that she can't use a fairly standard line about how nothing rough she's been through compares to the stuff that we the people face in these tough times... it's not that shocking to hear. Using verbatim lines though is what's not good, when people do that, of course, unless they give them credit.

[Drunken Irishman]

100. Hillary was the one who made it an issue.

And even in the debate she was offered a great opportunity to say it was no big deal, but she didn't. Instead, she used it to attack Obama and then she goes out and copies not only Edwards' line, but her husband's as well? Not cool.

It should have been a meaningless issue, but Clinton made it an issue and because of that, she must reap what she sowed.

[CatnHat]

149. What!!!

Excuse me, nobody should be bowing down to Obama. Obama is the source, not Clinton. Why should Clinton back down, her argument is legitimate. The question is not about little phases, every candidate uses, but copying whole speeches from another, and basing his campaign around it. Instead of accepting what Obama did was wrong, Obama supporters are up in arms about "phases" or "slogans" Clinton used. Not the same thing, and deep down I think you know that. Just another excuse Obama supporters use so they can continue to "bash" Clinton, no matter what. Clinton supporters know this, and one by one Obama supporters are doing a fine job in alienating the same supporters Obama will need if he gets nominated. Guess what--not a good idea to piss off the other half. It just might bite you in the ass in the end; and it probably will.

[rodeodance]

102. Shows the hollowness of so many Obama supporters.

[JTFrog]

112. I guess you missed the exact same weird stuff that Clinton hurled at Obama over this?

The hypocrisy is so thick you could cut it with a knife in here.

[ProSense]

127. Here, watch hypocrisy:

http://www.dailykos.com">Hillary Clinton Borrows Edwards Finishing Line

Hillary Channels Bill


Hillary's "plagiarism" attacks are lame and bizarre!

[Barrymores Ghost]

143. Hillary tried to destroy Obama with this cheap crap....

...and now, you want to look the other way? How convenient.

Clinton last night:

"You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about."

Edwards, December 13 debate:

"What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

Yes, this whole business is pretty frickin' silly, but don't be a self-righteous hypocrite.

[ExtraGriz]

98. its joint property

they are married, and if she borrowed it from her husband, she does not need to give credit...whats hers is his, whats his is hers.

[yodermon]

139. by that logic, she's already been president for 8 years and is

ineligable for a 3rd term. :crazy:

[Scurrilous]

99. Kick

:thumbsup:

[bridgit]

103. pft, whatever, I get money out of hubby's wallet when I need it...

And he knows it

[candymarl]

106. They've been married

for decades. Married people think alike. They finish each other's thoughts and sentences. It would be odd if she didn't have some of what Bill said floating in her brain. I don't consider it stealing if it's an immediate family member. Unless that family member specifically told you not to use their words. There's plenty to criticize Hillary for. This is reaching.

[Guava Jelly]

107. Hell I'd have used it too

It was a nice recovery from xerox.
it was a nice recovery from xerox.
It was a nice recovery from xerox.
it was a nice recovery from xerox.
It was a nice recovery from xerox.
it was a nice recovery from xerox.
It was a nice recovery from xerox.
it was a nice recovery from xerox.
damn copier fuc_ed up anyone know how to fix these things?

It was a fun debate.

[bluerum]

109. We all borrow phrases from literature and popular media EVERY DAY.

From Shakespeare to Aesop's fables to Mark Twain and other popular cultural media, we use the language day in and day out without even thinking about it.

Some phrases are common to particular professions and situations. This particular phrase was not a word for word usage. The phrase was modified and used in a way to express a sentiment common in the world of politicians, but with altered language.

To claim this was plagiarism indicates an obtuse misunderstanding of what plagiarism really is, or an opportunistic desire to smear. Either way, get a life.

My money says Obama will express similar sentiments many time before the presidential campaign is over.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

113. I cant believe the Hillaryites are defending this!

I really don't think the Hillary lovers even believe the spin they are putting on this. It should have been a non issue with Obama, who cares. But no she made this an issue. I still cant believe she went and did something that she accused Obama of doing not 10 minutes beforehand. I think she really connected with the story about the Intrepid Center. But then she goes and steals lines from Edwards and Bill. Is it massive amounts of hubris? Or just stupidity?

[alteredstate]

115. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7Cs3QvT3U

[thereismore]

138. That was crazy fast! nt

[AlertLurker]

116. Big. fucking. deal. Obama's entire campaign is "borrowed."

Read below and think about who is quoted here. Don't just read the WORDS, think of the meaning and the MOOD, as well:


"We are the party of Lyndon Johnson and the Great Society. We are the party of John F. Kennedy and the New Frontier. We are the party of FDR and the New Deal. We are the party of the people. We are the party whose president faced a broken nation--a nation of people without jobs, without homes, without health care, without retirement security--and he exhorted our people to have courage. Seventy years ago, FDR stood before a fearful nation and said, We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And he ignited a nation to reaching its promise and that brought almost a hundred new Democrats into the House. It enabled a sweeping mandate to bring deep, transformational change to our social, our political, and our economic structures.

It remade a government of the people and for the people. That kind of change is needed today. We can empower a new beginning.

Democrats, I remind you that we have nothing to fear but fear itself. We need a new faith in America and in ourselves. Faith that we can change the present condition; faith that we can change the outcome; faith that we can regain the confidence, the optimism, the whole world has identified with America; faith that it is the Democratic party that can once again lead the way to a better day, to a better America, to a better world.

Democrats, Democrats can move this country forward from a condition where of 8 million people out of work to a full employment economy with a living wage for all. If you believe our party can do that, let us tell this nation yes we can. (scattered response "Yes we can.").

...

Democrats can move this country forward from 40 million people without health insurance to a single payer system which provides quality health care for all. Do you believe we can do that? .

Yes we can. Si se puede.

Democrats can move this country forward from underfunded schools, underpaid teachers, and undereducated youths to
making education our top funding priority and providing free college education for all. Do you believe we can do that? .

Democrats can move this country forward from a condition where our air, our water and our land is now being ruined
by multinational corporate interests; where we can demonstrate that environmental protection is our path to sustaining the life of the planet. Do you believe we can do this as a party? .

Yes we can. Si se puede.


---------------------------------------------
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dnc0203/kucin022203spt.html
Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich
Democratic National Committee Winter Meeting
Washington, DC
February 22, 2003


Obama's every bit the theif Hillary is. Who cares? They are both POLITICIANS and will BOTH DO ANYTHING to get the nomination.

[Maribelle]

123. And the more one digs, the more one learns that Obama is even more hot air.

Kucinich is twice the man Obama is.

[AlertLurker]

125. How come Obama gets the glory while Dennis is just fighting for his seat?

Anyone who has ever heard Kucinich speak comes away inspired. Is Dennis' message so much more inspiring coming from someone of colour who has stood for nothing in the past?

I just don't get it.

The Democratic Party fucked up again and they have the wrong two candidates running for the nomination, in my opinion.

[Maribelle]

126. To understand how Obama got the glory, one needs to understand ...

the support Obama had for over two years that tried to hide the fact that they were Obama's backbone in his quest to upset the primary and turn it to Obama.

When Kennedy came out swinging at President Clinton, he tried to pretend it was because of Clinton's actions in the South Carolina primary. This was deception at it best, a deceptive capability that is one of Ted Kennedy's greatest strengths. Ted Kennedy, as we are now learning, was part of Obama's backbone for over two years. And as we now know from the Patrick campaign in Massachusetts, the Obama campaign was lying in stealth waiting for just the right time to twist out their racist crap.

When Kerry officially came out in support of Obama, John Edwards and his supporters were floored. And I don't blame them. But what we are now learning is that Kerry is an integral part of Obama's two-year backbone and tried to hide it: hence the surprise to John and his supporters.


These huge and powerful machinations behind Obama are cunningly crafted by Obama's big daddies. Obama would be nothing without this hidden force.

[Buzz Clik]

128. Nice try. This lame smear attempt had all the buoyancy of a lead balloon.

And then your candidate did the same thing.

Oops.

Now what?

[AlertLurker]

134. I'm not "smearing" anyone and "my candidate" has always been Dennis Kucinich.

I believe the Democratic Party is making a big mistake, and electing an empty suit with nothing or an empty pant suit with baggage is going to backfire in the GE.

Obama is a fake. He's done nothing, he's got nothing, he will do nothing... but lose.

Mark my words.

[Buzz Clik]

136. Mark your words? I'll bookmark them. Will that do? You'll hear from me in November.

If I were you, I'd spend some time making sure that Kucinich gets re-elected to his seat in Congress. It seems his base in Ohio is about enthusiastic about him as you are about Obama.

See ya in November.

[workinclasszero]

119. Hypocrisy thy name is Hillary! nt

[ColonelTom]

120. The difference.

Yes, Obama "borrowed" a few phrases from a friend and political colleague.

Yes, Hillary Clinton "borrowed" a few phrases from her husband, a friend and political colleague.

The difference? Hillary Clinton seems to think this should be the centerpiece of her campaign. Which ought to tell you exactly how much of her drive to be president is ideological, and how much of it is pure, naked ambition.

In all honesty, as Obama gained momentum the last few weeks, I started looking more closely at Hillary Clinton, thinking that perhaps she had a point on the experience issue. But with her campaign's hateful turn in the last several days, I'm done with her. Finished. No way, not happening. I will not vote for her in the primary. And I suspect I'm not alone in being that turned off by the vitriol spewed by her campaign in recent days.

[Buzz Clik]

131. "But with her campaign's hateful turn in the last several days"... I was ahead of you by a month.

I was a fence-sitter. Her negativity made me look closely at both candidates and the criticisms being leveled at both.

I made my choice early because she forced me to. I have no regrets.

[Maribelle]

121. Too bad TPM wasn't a little more interested in comparing Obama's war speech.

Far more critical to this country, is the MSMs and obviously netroots free pass to Obama on that thing he claims exemplifies his 'judgment' on the Iraq War.

Too bad TPM doesn't compare Obama's 'judgment' speech to other speeches that took place weeks before.


This huge failure on both the MSMs and netroots part is one reason Obama's puff sucks in the unknowing and the non-analytical.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

124. The unknowing and non-analytical?

funny

[izzybeans]

129. I hope the obama campaign does not stoop to the petty level of the Clinton camp.

who cares about this shit? Really?

[Buzz Clik]

They won't because it's a non-issue.

[tekisui]

130. We need a "youtube" of it.

[Apollo11]

132. You cannot borrow from your own spouse. Everything is jointly owned.

Applause lines are considered joint property. Ask any divorce lawyer.

[Buzz Clik]

133. Unlike, say, season football tickets.

[CaptJasHook]

135. She deserved an ovation for that acting

Hell, I'd give her an oscar.

She snubs the people of Wisconsin, flies around in a Hillicopter in Iowa. Her whole life she has surrounded herself with politicos and social elite, and then she tries to use "the poor people" of the US. She even drags out some wounded soldiers from the illegal war she voted for and has them limp across the imaginative stage.

She borrows a sappy line of argument that anyone with a decent high school education can see was stolen and rearranged from the past. And then does a condescending reach over to Obama to patronize him and the American public. This after accusing him of plagarism.

This seals it for me. Senator Hillary Clinton is dangerous. It is obvious that she is duplicitous, power blind and an egomaniac.

[mod mom]

137. Rove playbook entry # 1,224 accuse opponent of what you are guilty of.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

140. Yeah, check this out

See who else is "borrowing" from Bill. Seems Obama likes what President Clinton had to say and borrowed his words and themes.

Bill Clinton: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Address
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres64.html

Bill Clinton: Second Inaugural Address
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres65.html

[peacock]

141. I´m so sick of this

Clinton may have borrowed from Clinton and certainly borrowed from Edwards though she gave JRE a couple of credits. I found her last answer sincere and decent. I found the debate decent, despite the attempts of CNN to make it a dog fight. We have to be unified against the Republicans and that is what both Clinton and Obama made clear last night.

Let´s stop this silly stuff and win the election by a major landslide, please.

[RaleighNCDUer]

144. Who cares? It's a good line.

It's not like she's running on the strength of her husband's term in office, right?

[clarence swinney]

148. WHO CARES

were it from the Bible or RNC

What works if reasonable

You know there will be smears regardless.

R cannot run on numbers. Theirs are all bad

The run on smears and false promises

[clarence swinney]

146. EMOTION

BEATS FACTS ANYTIME

Reagan was master of it.

Where has it been in this campaign?

Had I been an adviser I would have many such statements.

POSTIVES=FEEL GOODS

NEGATIVES=alienate

NICENESS=A WINNER

[KaptBunnyPants]

152. I doubt he'll mind,

I guess it's a nice gotcha after the plagiarism charge. Is it really a sin for politically allied people to use the same rhetoric?

[steven88]

153. grow up

I can't help saying it. My kid's fights make more sense than some of the ones I see here.

[jamesinca]

155. It truly is silly season

If your going to make this type of comment in a debate you need to make sure you have not done it yourself Hillary. The XEROX queen!!!

[bjobotts]

156. That's a stretch from "borrowing" a whole speech and all your campaign slogans.

[bjobotts]

157. Used to minimize Obama's faking his inspiration from the heart.

[bjobotts]

158. I will support him but refuse to be blinded to his 'acting'. Neither are that progressive.

[disndat]

162. Are people missing something?

If HC lifted this from Edwards, it just happens to be from one of his final debates, She also paid a tribute to Obama, saying it's an honor to be on the same stage with him. Does that sound like she is resigned to coming to the end of her campaign?

[0007]

164. Pot meet Kettle

[emilyg]

165. There are so many

more important things to worry about.

[Politicalboi]

166. She stole from

Edwards too.