'Change you can xerox.': Did it help Clinton or hurt her?

[Danger Mouse]

Poll question: 'Change you can xerox.': Did it help Clinton or hurt her?

Simple question, simple poll.
Keep comments clean and above the belt, please.

[thunder rising]

1. Hint: She got booooooooddddd!

[Cha]

85. I was at work and just got home..so

was hilary impling that Obama's message of Change could be zeroxed or something?

[XemaSab]

87. she was attacking him on plagiarism

and yeah, she got boood

[Cha]

89. Ah So! I get it now..Wanna bet they were

mark penn's words? }(

[Danger Mouse]

90. hey xemasab!

:hi:

[gravity]

2. It's hard to attack 'change'

and she made an unsuccessful attempt

[Blondiegrrl]

62. Not only that; it's virtually impossible to attack Obama from that angle

without also attacking his supporters ... which, at the moment, comprise the majority of Democratic voters. It's not generally a good idea to attack the audience one is courting.

[calmblueocean]

3. Hurt her a lot (looks petty), hurt Obama a little (catchphrases stick).

Personal negative attacks like this always hurt the attacker more than the target.

[Danger Mouse]

7. yeah, i think the catchphrase will stick...

but it will NOT help clinton.
just my personal take.

[ORDem]

51. Which phrase? "Xerox" or "Silly Season"?? I vote for the latter. n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

66. She'll get a job for "Xerox", McCain will get job as Levitra rep

its all good for the two of them.

[mckeown1128]

4. kick.... nt

[billbuckhead]

8. Obama will never live down the Xerox comment

Hillary reminded everyone, :+bama bought the franchise, he didn't build the store.

[jenmito]

24. Are you as politically tone-deaf as Hillary is? The people HATED that cheap attack!

But I hope she KEEPS saying it. It'll really bring her down even farther.

[billbuckhead]

37. The Kool-aid drinkers hated that line, but it will open other's minds

[Danger Mouse]

41. Kool-aid drinkers? I said to keep comments CLEAN and free of cheap attacks.

:puke:
I didn't exactly hear thunderous applause from the audience on that line.
In fact, I didn't hear any.

[billbuckhead]

72. Some Obama supporters use Kool aid as an icon

I thought the Obama movement is proud of Kool-aid.

[Danger Mouse]

75. as a mocking reference to idiots who use 'kool aid drinker' as an insulting reference to Obama's

supporters on DU and in general.

[cali]

42. oh, I think you're going to be very, very disappointed.

What a shame. I feel sooo badly for you. Or not. It's already being spun everywhere as a Hilly fuck up. And that's what'll stick- what the MSM makes of it. Too bad.

[WillyT]

108. Exactly Right cali !!!

Clinton Calls Obama "Change You Can Xerox," Crowd Boos



Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com

<snip>

AUSTIN, Texas — Hillary Rodham Clinton accused presidential rival Barack Obama of political plagiarism Thursday night, but drew boos from a Democratic debate audience when she ridiculed him as the candidate of "change you can Xerox."

Obama dismissed the charge out of hand, then turned the jeers to applause when he countered, "What we shouldn't be spending time doing is tearing each other down. We should be spending time lifting the country up."

The exchange marked an unusually pointed moment in an otherwise civil encounter in the days before March 4 primaries in Texas and Ohio _ contests that even some of Clinton's supporters say she must win to sustain her campaign for the White House.

The former first lady has lost 11 straight primaries and caucuses, and trails her rival in convention delegates. Obama has won a pair of big union endorsements in the past two days.

<snip>

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/21/clinton-obama-change-yo_n_87902.html

:shrug:

[Cha]

111. Thanks Willy T!

The money quote.. "What we shouldn't be spending time doing is tearing each other down. We should be spending time lifting the country up."

[XemaSab]

119. I noticed this in the CNN report too

He said the line about building us up BEFORE she said the line about xeroxing. :banghead:

[jenmito]

53. The audience was full of Kool-aid drinkers???

[Hatalles]

28. Judging by the reaction, I wonder if Hillary will ever live down that line.

[Blondiegrrl]

50. You're right. Here's the opening paragraph from the AP story:

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Hillary Rodham Clinton accused presidential rival Barack Obama of political plagiarism Thursday night, but drew boos from a Democratic debate audience when she ridiculed him as the candidate of "change you can Xerox.''

Obama dismissed the charge out of hand, then turned the jeers to applause when he countered, "What we shouldn't be doing is tearing each other down, we should be lifting the country up.''

[Cha]

88. Okay! That's the money quote

right there..I didn't see the debate and am getting analysis on DU. The whole crux of the matter is hilary's negativity from Iowa on when she was suppose to win..it's only gone further into the abyss and Obama hit it outta the ballpark with "What we shouldn't be doing is tearing each other down, we should be lifting the country up."

It seems I've heard it before and I don't know when but it's never been more true.

[Mz Pip]

92. I'll bet money

that Clinton didn't come up with that comment on her own. She just sounded phoney.

[AZBlue]

5. She was BOOED! In a room full of DEMOCRATS!!

:rofl:

[GarbagemanLB]

14. They don't count.

[Blondiegrrl]

44. Bwah! Hey, polls say that in the GE, McCain will win Texas.

Which means that when Obama wins Texas, Hillary's defense will be "Texas doesn't count."

:rofl:

[bellasgrams]

22. The same dems that gave her a long standing ovation. And the

sames ones that kept her there signing autographs long after BO had left the scene

[jenmito]

27. Yup. They applauded her near-consession speech! Finally, she shows she's a gracious loser.

[scheming daemons]

33. Even MORE proof that they weren't Obama people.....

People who LIKE her absolutely CRINGED at that remark.

What you say in your post proves that. People that gave her a standing ovation at the end and asked for her autograph BOOED HER WHEN SHE GAVE THAT LINE.

It bombed. face reality.

[anigbrowl]

116. There were standing ovations after every break.

They were for both candidates. And how you make out she spent longer signing autographs than he did, I don't know. Perhaps you have some control on your TV that ups the Clinton level, because I just saw an equal amount of enthusiasm there for both of them.

[gulliver]

81. How do you know it wasn't just Obama people booing?

That would be more of a strike against Obama than Hillary.

[ChazII]

6. Any chance that there

will be a clip at Youtube?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

32. Here ya go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mftuZFzS3Tc

its the question, Obama's answer and Hillary's retort

[ORDem]

48. Thank you!! I hadn't seen the debate tonight, but in this exchange

Obama CLEARLY got the better of Clinton, no question about it. He completely neutralized the plagiarism argument and in a detailed way with a smile on his face, and then she comes back with that xerox nonsense, after he'd gotten about 3 or 4 rounds of applause and laughter out of the audience.

I was pleasantly surprised how relaxed and sure of himself he was during that video. He knows he's got this thing wrapped up.

:dem:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

68. I agree with you there

I am fairly sure they had that line prepared and to be honest hadn't Obama so completely neutralized that argument just moments before(and getting the whole crowd behind him) the line likely would have been quite effective(but due to his answer it seemed petty instead)

[ChazII]

122. Thank you.

Since I don't have cable or dish, this is appreciated very much.

[Kaylee]

9. I said other because the closing made up for it. nt

[Danger Mouse]

18. her closing was very strong, so she broke even.

i agree with that.
however, i think 'change you can xerox' will plague her, and not in a good way.

[Kaylee]

26. True.

Going negative in this venue was definitely a mistake. And unfortunately for her is very soundbitey, so it (along with the boos) will be replayed over and over.

[earthlover]

58. Xerox is soooo70s......

[Enrique]

10. it was completely embarrassing

but I don't think it will affect anything.

[BeyondGeography]

11. Another terrible suggestion from that crack staff of hers

Thank goodness she still listens to them.

[Debi]

20. Do you mean staffers on crack?

That and her insulting Austin's state senator were not good for her campaign.

[Fearless]

12. CNN pulse polling shows it hurt... take that for what you want.

[eShirl]

13. at least she didn't say "change you can mimeograph"

[ORDem]

54. LOL! n/t

[GoldieAZ49]

15. It showed her pettiness

her close was strong so she broke even, for the most part

[Debi]

16. Getting booed can't help her much n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

17. Fell flat!

[nomorewhopper]

19. it was clear that both the crowd in the audience as well as the "people meter" didn't like the line

i didn't like it either

it will get a lot of play in the media. i doubt it will stick. i thought obamas response was very good as well. he was very disappointed, yet held his tongue.

[Danger Mouse]

23. he could have gotten vicious there, but didn't.

he scored major points there by not playing her game.

[Abacus]

21. Not sure why she walked into that.

The notable applause Barack received moments before for his explanation should have been a cue about the audience's opinion.

[Quixote1818]

30. They clearly had that one liner ready but because Obama nailed the question

and got the audience behind him, she should have just dropped it right then and there. Instead she decided to go with it and it backfired on her in the worst way.

[Blondiegrrl]

57. She was just pushing forward with her scripted reply.

She's so wrapped up in herself that she doesn't stop to process the audience's reaction.

[Quixote1818]

25. Fatal error. The problem for Hillary is that Obama nailed the plagiarism question

and hit it out of the ball park. The audience was 100% behind him after his answer. Hillary's campaign must have had that one liner ready but after Obama's answer it made her look petty and childish. It completely bombed!

[Danger Mouse]

35. He absolutely did nail that question.

The audience was behind him, there, and for her to go for the cheap shot there, was not helpful.

[Quixote1818]

78. It was like she was pooring lemon juice on an open wound she created

After you stab someone below the belt and everyone knows it you don't poor lemon juice on the stab would!!!! :shrug:

[XemaSab]

98. The moderator framed it as an issue harped on by her campaign

After that she should have known she was in dangerous water.

[TexasObserver]

29. It revealed once again that pissy nature that offends voters so much.

She plagiarized an entire book. That's some chutzpah.

[Johnny__Motown]

31. It will be used against her now, even if it isn't fair (since it wasn't fair to use it against him)

[billbuckhead]

39. Why isn't fair that Mr Communicator is outed for using a template?

[scheming daemons]

46. The line bombed badly... and deep-down, you know it....

..

[apocalypsehow]

34. Hurt her campaign - a lot.

n/t

[Breeze54]

36. To "xerox" is a verb older Americans understand.

I think she used that word for a good reason.

[bluedawg12]

64. Xerox is code to seniors: come and vote for me- I get you! LOL

We are the one we have been wheezing for.

LMAO.

[bluedawg12]

70. This was a lightweight issue and nonstarter for her-why she pushed it

is a testimony to th idiots around her give her crap advice.

[Breeze54]

71. Boomers are the majority of registered voters.

Keep laughing. ;)

[Kaylee]

83. I call it xeroxing....

Damn, and I thought I was pretty young and spry at 35. Guess not.

[bluedawg12]

95. Hell, for me it's mimeographs and over head projectors! LOL.

time for my metamucil...'xcuse me....

[XemaSab]

99. We are the one we have been wheezing for.

ouch :rofl:

[bluedawg12]

109. Thank you- please wait while I play my Beatles hits.

[earthlover]

67. she already has the senior vote...she needs to expand

[Breeze54]

74. No she doesn't.

I don't have the stats in front of me but last I heard, older women were also voting for Obama.

I'm sure there's a statistic somewhere and nothing in an election is a guarantee.

[stillcool]

38. It's bad enough being played...

over and over by surrogates and talk show peeps. Coming straight from the source just gives validity to an already negative image.

[TheWraith]

40. That was an absolutely idiotic comment by her. Very, very bad call to continue pushing it.

Came off as a nasty below the belt attack. And she was doing pretty well up until shortly before that, but she got knocked around a little leading up to it, and I guess she felt she had to strike back.

[XemaSab]

100. If by "knocked around" you mean protrayed as petty, then yeah

:P

[SPKrazy]

43. What the fuck is wrong with saying that Elrond?

I xerox things every fucking day

[Danger Mouse]

45. Why the bad language? It was an insulting remark on her part

and it played poorly with audience and the analysts.

[SPKrazy]

103. because it is a stupid thing to worry about

when we got problems

I xerox every day

analysts be damned

[Danger Mouse]

104. so, are you saying it was a bad move on her part to use it as an attack?

or a bad move on the part of people to criticize her for saying it?
i don't follow.

[soleft]

47. Rachel Maddow says the line was stupid and would have hurt her

But that her closing remarks blew Obama away and saved her.

[rocktivity]

49. Purely for malice's sake

and it didn't make too much sense.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Stinky The Clown]

52. Nobody gives a shit except the Inside Baseball crowd.

Like us. **We** have opinions about it and it might sway some of us one way or another. But for the real world outside us political junkies ..... nah .... doesn't mean jack .....

[ORDem]

56. True, true. We sometimes forget that in this little DU world of ours. n/t

[backscatter712]

55. That comment was amazingly stupid.

Seriously - the consultant that put her up to saying this should be fired.

I don't know if it cost her the Texas and Ohio elections, but it damned well hurt her. She came across sounding like a naughty 12-year old.

[workinclasszero]

59. Guess old, out of touch pols like Hillary just don't understand

that the American people are sick to death of the character assassination style elections that Bush/Clinton/Bush made famous!

The 90's are soo over! Its a new day and a new way with Obama!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

60. It wasn't a shining moment

Here we've been discussing what impact it may have and over all we all agree that really depends.

There are a lot of other things to digest from the debate tonight besides that one incident. How badly it hurts her will depend on how much airtime it gets between now and March 4th.

When the booing started the look on her face revealed she knew she'd overplayed that card. She had enough sense to drop it after that regain her composure and move on.

The good news is it may help curb future attacks from both candidates after that reaction.

[Danger Mouse]

63. True. I do think that the comment will haunt her, though.

[RL3AO]

61. Heres what I think

[JimGinPA]

69. Now That Was Good!!! nt

[bluedawg12]

86. I knew it would keep a thread going for hours.

she should have sat on the urge to go there

[Colobo]

65. Hillary will get Xeroxed in Texas. :)

[Barack_America]

73. Considering she turned around and Xeroxed EDWARDS'S closing...

...I'd say she doubly screwed herself on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

[workinclasszero]

79. No kidding

Hillary is a world class hypocrite and proved it tonight when she ripped off John Edwards!

[alteredstate]

121. and she Xerox'd Bill's 1992 words

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7Cs3QvT3U

[JerryWest_44]

76. Xerox was HQ in Texas

Not sure if anyone has commented on this -- But "Xerox" was headquarted in Texas in the late 70's & she used Xerox in a derogatory way.... So this may have added to the disdain of the Texan people ...

[Danger Mouse]

77. interesting point, and welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Danger Mouse]

80. kick for more votes.

:)

[Bushwick Bill]

82. Very contrived.

Keep slinging away that mud and see what happens.

[maximusveritas]

84. Hurt a little at the time, but made much worse by her closing plagiarism

Especially now that the media has built that answer as her best moment, it will really hurt once it comes out that much of it was plagiarized.

[Danger Mouse]

93. if what you say is true, do you think it'll actually gain any media attention?

[TexasObserver]

91. 15 people in this poll thought it helped Hillary, but look at the threads on the board

The fact that so few posters think it helped Hillary stands in stark contrast to all the threads on the board claiming that Hillary did really well tonight. It's as if they know they can't come close to winning the argument, so they flood the board with ridiculous pro Hillary threads.

This is one reason they lack credibility. 15 posters ... 30 threads claiming Hillary did well.

Her statement was a complete BUST.

It's also obvious that they're bumping old threads because they've exhausted their 3 per day limit. Like Hillary, these tactics don't fool anyone but those employing them.

[GarbagemanLB]

96. All 15 saved their 3 post limit just for after the debate.

[TexasObserver]

105. Yes, and it's that contrived and systematic attempt at deception that typifies her campaign

Do they really think that by flooding the board with multiple threads and bumping old, irrelevant crap threads to dominate the top of page one GDP they're fooling anyone but themselves?

It's that kind of delusional thinking that has led the entire Clinton campaign down the tubes.

[Yurovsky]

101. Nothing coming from HRC is "unplanned" ...

I would not be suprised at all if they have a internet division of the campaign that is charged with flooding progressive websites with pro-HRC spin.

Admittedly I have no proof, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[TheZug]

94. If only she'd mentioned disco and CB radios, too.

[XemaSab]

107. "Just go listen to the 8-track of Obama and Deval..."

:P

[TheZug]

110. I'll just watch it on "the youtube."

Which I think is one of those things they have on the Internets.

[Bacchus39]

97. its what desperation does, Hillary learning that you CANT do just anything to win

n/t

[ErnestoG]

115. I wonder which consultant she desperately dialed up after that one....

[CreekDog]

102. Hurt a lot for two reasons (one in that moment, one later)

1) these attacks never help the attacker
2) she "borrowed" a line from another's speech at the end when she said, "the hits I've taken are nothing compared..."

I was like :wow:

[Alexander]

106. Her reaction meter dropped dramatically after that line. And she got booed.

Can't spin that. She blundered.

[Danger Mouse]

112. kick again.

:kick:

[Yukari Yakumo]

113. My guess

It would do massive damage to her campaign...
... if people were influenced by the debates.

But, unless I'm mistaken, debate performances generally have not been a factor for people when they make their choice at the polls.

[taught_me_patience]

114. It didn't hurt much

I don't think voters care very much about snippy comments.

[candymarl]

117. Some folks

don't "get" the xerox reference. Cut and paste would have been better. Cutting and pasting was once done manually. Now it's primarily done by computer. That would've been a cross-generational reference.

[TexasObserver]

118. Worst self inflicted wound of all the debates!

It demonstrates the out of touch, over the hill advisors she has, and the bad judgment she has in choosing and listening to them.

[Meshuga]

120. It was bad judgment on her part

I was actually embarrassed for her hoping I could fast forward since it was so painful.

Making a big deal out of nothing in the first place, and then sticking to it, was a bad judgment on her part. It is obvious that this BS backfired this past week but she decides to try and keep it alive in the debate. What was she thinking? Even if she bit her tongue and decided not to say the Xerox line, this whole BS should not be a comfortable subject for her and keeping it alive in the debate made it even worse.