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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:44 PM
Original message
You Sent them There, Hillary Clinton
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 10:58 PM by kpete
You Sent them There, Hillary Clinton
by FishOutofWater
Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 07:14:52 PM PST

Before you send soldiers to war you must consider the price they are going to pay. They will come home crippled, maimed, missing limbs and suffering from PTSD. This suffering is the inevitable consequence of war.

That's just part of the story. Mothers, wives, children and other loved ones left behind suffer in silence when soldiers are sent off to war. Babies grow up not knowing their fathers. Families pay in silence.

........................

When Senator Clinton implicitly compared her personal problems to the problems of the soldiers and their families she seemed unaware of her responsibility for their suffering.

The AUMF wasn't only an authorization to use force in Iraq. The AUMF authorized a war that was sure to cause soldiers and their families to suffer. It was certain to cause many Iraqis to suffer under the most favorable scenario. In fact, the AUMF led to millions of Iraqis to be displaced and half a million to a million to die.

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/21/214247/442/143/461593
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not to mention the Congress members who have voted to keep funding this fiasco.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Absolutely, if they're killed by a roadside bomb because there's no funding for armoring...
...they'll never have to endure the painful transition back to civilian life.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I'm being very sincere.
Nobody who takes the question seriously would hint that we would leave soldiers there with no armor because there is no "funding" for it.

Yet the Congress has voted billion after billion after trillion for what, 5 years now? Surely that's more than just "armor". Surely the Democratic Congress could have tried to end this war. Please don't claim differently out of trying to "protect" your candidate.

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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The Democratic Congress...
...has been trying not to rock the boat in order to get a Dem in the White House. That's my view anyhow. If they claim Iraq as their own, could they nail the Republicans to the wall with it in 2008? A nasty political strategy that will probably work for them (not so much for our troops).

But I am touchy with the people who insist on cutting funding as a way to force Bush's hand. Even with full funding, things like armoring vehicles took a back seat. What will happen when the money runs out and Bush is trying to stay in there *just a little while longer*? Nobody can convince me that strategy wouldn't result in the unnecessary injury and death of many soldiers. It's an unacceptable option, IMO. We need to bring them home with more deliberation than we threw them in there with. That's my take.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. ...unaware of her responsibility for their suffering.
K and R
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. No She Didn't, And Only An Ignorant Asshole Would Claim Such.
People need to get a grip already.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. "I brought you into this war, and I can take you back out."
to paraphrase my mom.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. You mom is right-on.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. that is NOT a winning argument. Not at all. nt
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. apparently, the arguments she's using now aren't winning, either.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes, but it didn't personally affect me... Says Hillary.. ( Indirectly of course) n/t
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've looked around at a lot of blogs. This is the commentary that is coming out after her statement
I really do believe that this election is all about the war in the minds of the American people. More than a "clinton thing" or "clinton negatives" based upon what went on in the Clinton administration and the divisiveness. I really thing that it all boils down to Iraq.
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MeDeMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. I am not a big Hillary fan, but ...
honestly you are unfit to be a commander-in-chief if you can't send soldiers to war because you would feel guilt for their suffering.

When she spoke of the pain & suffering of the soldiers and their families, she was seeing them with her humanity.

As a senator (or a president) you have to do whatever it takes to defend and protect our national interests.

I don't think her Iraq war has hurt our national interests.

IMHO.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. It may not have hurt your...
Edited on Thu Feb-21-08 11:22 PM by stillcool47
idea of national interests, but it sure has hurt my 'interests'....


PTSD and Murder Among Newest Veterans

Jon Soltz | Posted January 14, 2008 | Politics
This weekend, while the 24-hour primary coverage raged on, the New York Times published a very well researched and stunning report on the number of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans involved in killings, here in America. They found at least 121 cases, now, where a veteran was charged with involvement in a homicide.
The trend of our newest veterans being involved in killings on the homefront can be largely attributed to four letters -- PTSD. Our failure to properly screen for and treat this mental injury is the source of so many problems our newest veterans face -- from drug and alcohol abuse, to homelessness, to joblessness, to spousal abuse, to suicide, and now, to murders

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/ptsd-and-murder-among-new_b_81380.html


This article originally appeared in the July 2007 volume of the Zero To Three
Journal on Coping With Separation and Loss.
The Young Military Child

Our Modern Telemachus
Stephen J. Cozza
Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences
Alicia F. Lieberman
University of California, San Francisco
-A combat mindset or what has been referred to as Battlemind can lead to misdirected irritability or aggression that can impact on small children. Irritability, emotional rage, jumpiness, hypervigilance, or overreactivity can all lead to family conflict and misunderstanding on the part of the young child. Social withdrawal or reduced communication because of anxiety about sharing upsetting war-related experiences may cause further withdrawal from family members and lead to a child’s confusion about the meaning of such parental nonavailability.
—Postdeployment emotional and behavioral responses can range from more typical short-term distress responses, such as change in sleep, decreased sense of safety, or social isolation, to the development of more serious psychiatric conditions, such as post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or depression.
Studies conducted by Hoge and colleagues (Hoge et al., 2004; Hoge, Auchterlonie, & Milliken, (2005) at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research have demonstrated significant postdeployment distress in populations of combat exposed soldiers and marines returning from Iraq. When screened 12 months after return from combat deployment, nearly 20% of service members endorsed symptoms consistent with a mental disorder, most often PTSD or depression.
—Studies have demonstrated that the children of parents with depression (Beardslee, Versage, & Gladstone, 1998) evidence significant problems in a wide range of functional areas. Children of Vietnam veterans with PTSD are more likely to evidence symptoms similar to those of their combat-exposed fathers (Rosenheck & Nathan, 1985; Rosenheck & Thompson, 1986).
http://www.zerotothree.org/site/PageServer


Child Abuse Statistics
The NIS studies have been published on data collected in 1979 (NIS-1), in 1986 (NIS-2), and in 1993 (NIS-3).
Finding of the NIS-3:
* The estimated number of children seriously injured by all forms of maltreatment quadrupled between 1986 and 1993, from 141,700 to 565,000 (a 299% increase).
* Considering the Harm Standard:
* The estimated number of sexually abused children increased 83%;
* The number of physically neglected children rose 102%;
* There was a 333 % increase in the estimated number of emotionally neglected children; and
* The estimated number of physically abused children rose 42%.

------------------------------------
Girls are sexually abused three times more often than boys.
Boys are at a greater risk of serious injury and of emotional neglect than are girls.
The incidence of fatally injured girls declined slightly, while the incidence of fatally injured boys rose.
Found no race differences in maltreatment incidence.
----------------------
Child neglect related fatalities were confirmed by CPS agencies, nearly 4 every day. Since 1985, the rate of child abuse fatalities has increased by 39%. Based on these numbers, more than three children die each day as a result of child abuse or neglect (NCPCA's 1996 Annual Fifty State Survey).
http://www.yesican.org/stats.html
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MeDeMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. my humble apologies, I meant to say the opposite...
That her Iraq war vote has not helped out national interests.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. not to mention the more than one million Iraqis slaughtered for a LIE
Its not right to only point out the cost to our own fighting men and women. Iraqis did NOT attack us and were NO threat, but they have suffered greatly from this bad decision.


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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-21-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bush sent them there
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