Hillary closed with power: John Edwards' power.

[Occam Bandage]

Hillary, tonight:

You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about.

Edwards, Dec. 13:

What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/21/debate.transcript/index.html
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/13/se.01.html


Edit: Video of the "borrowing."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

[TheZug]

1. She plagiarized for America.

[Cha]

19. Closings you can

Xerox. :wtf: are these people thinking?

[calmblueocean]

2. The YouTube clip of both of them makes it painfully clear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

[krkaufman]

42. Wow. Thanks for the video clip. It makes the lifting even more obvious...

... than my semi-effective memory could recollect.

[Bread and Circus]

3. I'm kind of surprised she doesn't get called on how much she borrows.

[Occam Bandage]

7. I am and I'm not. Borrowing is common in politics; there's only so many ways

you can say the same shit. On the other hand, given her ridiculous "omg plagiarism" attacks, I think her campaign should be held to the same standard to which she wished to hold Obama's campaign. And really, it doesn't make her look like much of a leader; she's poached every good slogan or line from Obama or from Edwards.

[krkaufman]

43. "she's poached every good slogan or line from Obama or from Edwards"

Your comment caused me to associate this behavior with the main political theme of Bill Clinton... triangulation. Don't so much worry about setting a clear progressive vision and bringing the country along, instead, identify your opponents' strengths and try to coopt enough key issues that you can attract some of their voters. (Of course, this strategy works best -- or only -- in a 3-way race for the Presidency or when running as an incumbent.)

[Bread and Circus]

4. .

[monomach]

5. Misogynist Pig!

How dare you accuse Saint Hillary of plagarism!

[IndianaGreen]

6. She also quoted from Joe Klein's Primary Colors

Who you calling a plagiarist?
21 Feb 2008 10:47 pm

During the debate, Dan Drezner suggested to me over IM that Hillary Clinton was plagiarizing Primary Colors. He backs it up on his own blog:

Hillary Clinton, February 21, 2008 debate with Barack Obama: "You know, lifting whole passages from someone else's speeches is not change you can believe in, it's change you can Xerox." Hillary Clinton, later on in the same debate: "You know, the hits I've taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country." Jack Stanton speech, in Primary Colors (New York: Random House, 1996), p. 162: "Y'know, I've taken some hits in this campaign. It hasn't been easy for me, or my family. It hasn't been fair, but it hasn't been anything compared to the hits a lot of you take every day."

Meanwhile, Chris Beam at Slate picks up on another instance:

Hillary, however, pivots in a way that evokes, of all things, her Diner Sob. Only this time, she sets herself up: “People often ask me, ‘How do you do it? How do you keep going?’ ” That’s the exact same question asked by Marianne Pernold Young at the Café Espresso in Portsmouth, New Hampshire on the eve of the primary. Clinton then goes into a colorful anecdote about a medical center filled with people injured in Iraq. She doesn’t exactly tear up, but it’s a deliberately emotional moment. (We see Chelsea looking teary afterwards.) At the very end, she borrows a line that John Edwards used toward the end of his campaign. "We're going to be fine," she said, referring to herself and Obama. (Edwards always said it about himself and Elizabeth.) "I just hope we can say the same thing about the American people."

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/02/who_you_calling_a_plagiarist.php

[Occam Bandage]

8. Huh. That Primary Colors bit is nearly word-for-word.

[Bread and Circus]

13. It was her diner sob... at least that's how I felt.

[juajen]

17. You know a lot of what your are upset about is just common

everyday phrases. It is is not exact or is mixed up, it is really not copying. We all know words and phrases that become cliche like. I don't see the claim as realistic in the case of John Edwards, especially. The only phrase she borrowed was "You know, we're going to be fine". The rest was different. Primary colors was different also. I don't think this is comparable to a what sounded like the whole tenor of a speech.

I did see her use one of Bill's lines in the speech she made at the funeral of Mrs. King. You all know the phrase, but I can't remember it. I didn't like that she took that phrase. I thought she should have stuck to her own words. But, I don't think the criticism of tonights debate is valid.

[Cha]

21. "The hits" she's taken in this campaign are

by her own hand..what a hypocritical piece of disingenous, demagoguery.

[Occam Bandage]

23. Like there was that awful time in South Carolina when the majority of voters thought she

had run a nasty, unfair campaign--just because she had! Or like in Wisconsin, like when the majority of voters thought she had run an unfairly negative campaign--just because she ran a bunch of ads calling Obama a coward for only agreeing to twenty debates!

People are so mean to her.

[Cha]

24. hilary the victim, playing to the crowd with

John Edwards' words.. tweaked just a tad.

[ginnyinWI]

33. wow. taking lines from a novel!

She's an actress.

[juajen]

9. The only part that was the same was "We're going to be fine" or

did I miss something. John Edwards in the clip I saw didn't say the rest of what Hillary said the way she said it. I don't find that convincing.

[Occam Bandage]

10. You missed something.

1. It's not about us.
2. We, the candidates, are going to be fine.
3. The question is if America is going to be fine.

She tweaked the wording a little bit, but it's otherwise the same as JRE's closing in the Iowa debates.

[juajen]

22. I will have to disagree. Anyone can put words together but in different ways

that's allowable. I have seen student's papers that I graded and I never graded them down for it. These were college papers I was grading. After all, we all copy each other's speech and sentences. You know "Don't taze me bro!" I see similarity in the idea she took from his speech, but it certainly was not an original sequence from Edwards, and Hillary changed it enough that I would give her a pass on it. If you wouldn't that's your prerogative.

[Barack_America]

26. It's not about words, it's about ideas.

The ideas behind those statements were identical.

[JDPriestly]

37. John Edwards said that frequently

[Barack_America]

11. The ideas were identical, "don't worry about us, worry about our country".

When you boil down both statements, that's what you're left with.

Plagiarism is much more about stealing ideas than stealing words verbatim.

[juajen]

28. Actually, she said "Americans", not "America", and the wording very different.

It wasn't just that Obama took that passage but so much more of Patrick's campaign ideas, that, gosh, weren't Patrick's either. They both have Axlerod. It was that the man we all thought was so brilliant didn't have an idea of his own. It was that all of these many Obama supporters think he hung the moon and are bowing down to him as a savior and wonderful, brilliant man with all of these magic ideas; and, all you can say, is that they're Axlerod's ideas and they're not new because Patrick got elected already using them. Perhaps we should elect the idea man.

I don't believe anyone thinks that Hillary Clinton needs to borrow ideas, but, what the heck, maybe it was expedient. However, we know her pretty well. Her life is an open book and her intellect is not a question with any of us. His is. We're just getting to know him.

[Barack_America]

30. But still, the IDEA was the same.

"Americans" versus "America" is a moot point. The idea of both statements was, "don't worry about us, worry about yourselves and this country".

Have you seen the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

[krkaufman]

44. And her enunciation implied a comma instead of a semi-colon!

What is wrong with you people?!?

:rofl:

[WA98070]

12. It seemed like a debate between Edwards and Edwards....after he stole from

Kucinich and Gravel. At least these two are moving to the left but wait...in the general the Obama/Clinton ticket will be to the right of Goldwater.

[krkaufman]

45. One... Obama/Clinton ticket WILL NOT happen.

Why would Obama risk energizing the Right Wing by making Hillary VP on the ticket? (Isn't that one of the main arguments against Hillary being on the Dem ticket as POTUS?)

Two... "Right of Goldwater" is nonsense. Just as Nader's "no difference between Bush and Gore" was nonsense.

[jackson_dem]

14. Copying Edwards sure beats copying Rove/Bush

Going beyond words, both celebrities copied a lot of Edwards' platform. They say Edwards didn't win a primary. Wrong. He won the most important primary: the ideas primary.

[Bread and Circus]

15. oh boy...

[Occam Bandage]

16. I admit it is a step up for her campaign.

[Barack_America]

34. ZING!

Shit, you on FIRE tonight!



(intentional poor grammar there)

[BlackVelvet04]

18. Hillary said that before in an interview with her.

I don't have a link because I don't remember what channel it was on but I saw it quite awhile ago.

[Occam Bandage]

20. So this isn't the first time she's "borrowed" Edwards' lines without crediting him?

[BlackVelvet04]

31. I don't know that she borrowed them at all....

I don't remember how old the interview was.

[juajen]

32. My gosh, I remember that, too. Can you remember in what

context. Was it in a debate or an interview? I seem to remember it was an interview. It would be ironical if it was Edwards that took a tad a phrasing from her, wouldn't it?

[grantcart]

25. ready on Dec 13

[mzmolly]

27. I don't think this sentiment is unique to Edwards or Hillary?

I say this as a former Edwards supporter.

[MoJoWorkin]

29. Sentiment? One could say the same about Deval and Obama.

They were Edwards's words. Did Edwards tell her to go ahead and use them?
Deval gave his to Obama to use.

Oh, but she did say words are cheap. In this case they were free-ly taken by her.

[mzmolly]

46. They were words used in many political races.

Sorry. I'm an Edwards supporter first, Obama second, but this is a serious stretch.

[XemaSab]

35. WOW!

Just WOW.

[Barack_America]

36. Also when Edwards suspended his campaign (1/30/08), he said:

"With Elizabeth, with my family, with my friends, with all of you and all of your support, this son of a mill worker is gonna be just fine. Our job now is to make certain that America will be fine".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdUCJsh6zvE (go to 8:30)


I KNEW that I had heard Edwards repeat this sentiment somewhere else! So I had to dig a bit. ;)

[Eurobabe]

38. Change you can Xerox n/t

[d.amber]

39. It did remind me of Edwards and that's what got me

It reminded me of someone ending their campaign. There was that feel in her voice as though she was saying, "I'm going to be fine, no matter what happens."

Quite frankly, it did get an emotional response from me because I felt like she was withdrawing and accepting that she would not win the nomination. Then when she turned to Obama and held his hand, you could almost tell that she was ready to accept that he would win.

I've cried each time Edwards dropped...in 04 and 08...and her closing comments reminded me alot of that.

[Barack_America]

40. He did say this when he ended his campaign.

My post above:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4708718&mesg_id=4709697

[krkaufman]

41. Aside from the emotion contrasting so starkly with her earlier, petty attacks on Obama...

... that's the other thing that stood-out for me, that it rang of Edwards parting words from the campaign. (leaving me wondering if Hillary was beginning the concession process or going after Edwards voters)