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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 07:09 AM
Original message
Change is in the Air
"The great disappointment at the convention was Bill Clinton’s nominating speech. I have very high regard for Clinton, an intelligent, spirited and ( I thought ) sensitive man; and I find it hard to understand how he could have perpetrated so tedious and rambling a speech – and then persevered in it when the response from the crowd made it obvious it was not going over.

"I also find it hard to understand how the Dukakis people permitted it to happen. In my day the presidential candidate took care to control the nominating and seconding speeches. ….I hope that this speech will not go down in the folklore along with Paul Dever’s 1952 keynote and Frank Clement’s keynote in 1956."
--Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.; Journals; July 22, 1988; page 656.

My house was filled with young people last night, who gathered to watch the debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama on CNN. I’m used to having friends over to watch boxing, and did have family and friends here to watch Senator Kerry debate President Bush. But last night was different: rather than the retired teachers and social workers that I’m friends with; it was the students and young social workers that are my children’s circle of friends.

As an old man, I tend to worry the same worry that people my age have had most of the time during this great American experiment: "What kind of country are we leaving to the younger generation?" There is something reassuring in seeing a roomful of the inhabitants of that future watching a democratic primary debate, and listening to them dissect the quality of both the questions posed and the answers delivered.

I thought it was an outstanding debate. I had been concerned that Senator Clinton would be invested in the potentially destructive approach advocated by Mark Penn. That route would not help Clinton win the nomination, but it could hurt Obama’s chances in November, and would definitely damage the democratic party for years to come.

Yet Hillary Clinton’s decency came through, by and large. I had supported both of Hillary Clinton’s Senate runs in my home state, and was impressed by her in the early part of the primary contest, but have been disappointed by her campaign’s tactics in the past seven weeks. People including Mark Penn and Bill Clinton have behaved in ways that I find extremely offensive. And when I sat down to watch the debate, I was concerned that it would be a continuation of the offensive tactics, and part of a downward spiral that would last longer than Bill Clinton’s speech at the 1988 Democratic National Convention.

All of the young people watching the debate here last night were Barack Obama supporters. But they also really like Hillary Clinton. At the end of the debate, when Senator Clinton spoke in a manner that suggested that she knows that Senator Obama has won this contest, and will be the nominee, one person asked if I thought she should be Obama’s vice president?

Most of these young people will be voting in their first presidential election. I said that this was obviously historic, because they would have the opportunity to vote for either a brown man or a woman as the democratic candidate, but that I doubted either would ask the other to take the VP position. No, I said, I didn’t think that was likely.

Old man, my son said, aren’t you the person who always says that "Yes" is more powerful than "No"? Don’t you always encourage us to look at this as a 50 state strategy? Well, with an Obama-Clinton ticket, we could be strong in every state, and change the make-up of the Congress, as well.

I think it is possible that Senator Clinton will end her run sooner rather than later, not just for her legacy, but because it is what is best for the democratic party. Change is in the air, and this nation will benefit from Hillary Clinton’s being a participant in that change.
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. H2O Man, I respect you, and I've always enjoyed your posts, but...
I think you're wrong to write Hillary off just yet. For god's sake, it's not like Obama has an insurmountable lead. Delegate counts vary, from a lead of 140 to...5. It's probably somewhere about 80 or so, but with the upcoming primaries, that's certainly not a shoe-in for Obama.

He may win; I'm not saying he won't, so don't you Obama supporters get your shorts in a knot and scream in outrage. But this unbelievably exciting, educational and historic primary ain't over yet.

I'm really glad you're teaching your son what's important! I think it's wonderful that young people are part of this amazing process.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. In theory,
it is possible for Senator Clinton to win the democratic nomination. Many of her supporters are still confident that she has a fighting chance. I have no problem with that.

Many other people believe her chances are becoming remote. And I think that Senator Clinton herself understands that. The truth is that, but for Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton would be the democratic nominee and very likely our next president. I thought that her performance last night showed that she really does respect and admire Barack Obama -- in a very real sense, he is similar to a younger Bill Clinton, but without the baggage, and she is going to have to decide if she wants to make this an ugly period in our party's history, or if she wants to contribute in a positive way to his candidacy in November.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wow. If you say so Water man, then I have to sit up and take notice.
Thanks for the insight.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. How grand it must have been to watch/hear all those young people
Such stories give some of us curmudgeons cause for hope for the nation's future.

And I hope you are right about sooner rather than later. The Penn led campaign can only harm the party and nominee at this point. One would hope Clinton sees that.

We need good DEM Senators on the floor if ANY DEM President is to have half a chance at turning the ship of state back to a productive course. Each individual Senator on that august floor is damned important. Hillary as a leader there would be history also. The nation could surely benefit from her talents and drives in such a position. ANY DEM President would be wise to work with such political and intellectual talents as Clinton could offer from the Senate.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Right.
We need to begin to transition from the in-fighting over the presidential primary, and focus on winning the White House and making significant gains in Congress in November. The longer the primary contest drags on, the more negative it will become. We do not benefit from that. It's time to move forward.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Today, the air is full of snow.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Maybe it will settle the mud
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. I like Hillary for the Supreme Court.
She's brilliant! I like Obama for President though because he is inspiring to all generations. (Not everyone in all generations, but look at the way he is bringing new people into the political process!) Thanks for the inside view, H2O Man.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. That is an
interesting possibility. I think she could be a great US Supreme Court Justice, and this country could really benefit from that. I also think that we benefit from having outstanding US Senators. So much damage has been done to Congress since Newt Gingrich & Co did their best to destroy it as a co-equal branch of the federal government. Clinton can make a great contribution to our future in the Senate.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. She has been effective as a Senator.
I have no quibble with the job she has done and hope she will continue to do. She's one of my senators. I have nothing negative to say about her, especially the way she handles business for NY; I just don't like her votes on the war. She lost my support for president when she voted for the Kyl amendment.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I like her
as a NY Senator. She has been responsive to people in the rural, upstate area.

I disagree with her vote allowing the Bush administration to invade Iraq, and I think that she has less ability to make positive changes in our Middle East policy than Senator Obama. I also found much of the campaign during January and February very offensive. But I would be likely to support her for any position other than the democratic nominee for president.

Maybe after Barack Obama becomes the "official" nominee, she will be less likely to make decisions based on polls, and will go with her instincts.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. We are very much in synch. n/t
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. Obama could not have had a tougher opponent
She and her machine have been very good for him. This could be like baseball in recent years when, once you get out of the tougher league, you sweep the Series in four games.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I agree.
I got a chuckle reading a person expressing "concern" about Barack Obama debating John McCain elsewhere on DU. I think that last night showed he can more than hold his own with any politician in the United States. This year's democratic primary featured at least six candidates who would spank John McCain in a debate, and Senator Obama has come out on top.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. the problem is....there is so much that needs to be changed in this country
I think many people have figured out that the country's direction is wrong and needs a sharp turn. It's going to take a very long time to fix the problems. I hope people understand that.

If the Dems win in November, they had better start addressing the problems or people will become disillusioned in 2010 and 2012.

People will need to see change. The Dems have a golden opportunity to win big in November, but I hope there is enough of a progressive platform that they intend to implement. If we have a Dem President, and majorities in the House and Senate, then people can put the blame on the Dems for what happens between now and the 2010 and 2012 elections.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. There is so much
that needs to be changed. And many people are impatient for the change to take place. I agree that the elected officials in Washington DC need to begin to produce meaningful results. I do not think that Congress has done a fraction of what the voters had demanded in 2006.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
16. You save me so much time writing my thoughts for me H20
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thank you.
One of the strengths found on DU is the diversity of thought; another, equally important, is when we are of like mind. Last night's debate showed, in my opinion, that now is the time for democrats to put their differences behind them, and to unite to engage in the Good Fight.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. K & R
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. Something happened last night
Intangible. Undefinable. I saw it in her face. I saw it in her daughter's eyes as she approached her mother on the stage at the end of the debate. I heard it in Ms. Clinton's voice as she spoke @ the Democratic headquarters in Austin minutes later.

Our party is about to determine its candidate. While I will still vote in this wacky Texas primary. I think the choice is clear to everyone.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yep.
There was a report that indicated there were disputes inside her campaign, about how hard Senator Clinton should try to "attack" Senator Obama. During the debate, there were a few times I thought she might go negative, when she held back. The two times she did were not helpful to her cause. But it seemed that something else was going on, as if some of the thoughts that have to have been on her mind since Super Tuesday have been confirmed. And I think she is smart and strong enough to realize that although she isn't going to win the nomination, the positive democratic values she cares about are going to be found in the White house come next January.
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BigDaddy44 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. She sure isn't acting like it today
Why all the statements about fighting to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations if this is her attitude? Why stir the pot unnecessarily instead of riding out the process with dignity?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Good question.
I would think that no matter what happens, everyone would want a resolution to the issues involving the Michigan and Florida situation. If she is going to try to go forward with her campaign, it certainly would be something she wants to concentrate on. But at the same time, if she were to step down, it would still be important to find a solution that allows everyone to feel that their vote counts. It will be hard to reconcile the party if there isn't some resolution to the problems with two states we need in November.
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yes, and isn't it exciting??
I also watched the debates and was impressed with both of them. :thumbsup: In truth, I'd vote for either of them, but it's looking more and more like Obama's got it in the bag.

We'll see....

The next two weeks should be VERY interesting to watch unfold, indeed.

Whatever happens, Hillary will be OK and will continue to make a difference for the country....as she already has.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Exactly.
It must be rather difficult to be a republican these days, and have to compare McCain to the democratic candidates.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Clinton on Immigration Reform .....
Press Release from Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform


The Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform scored a PR coup in the Democratic Debate on Thursday night when presidential contender Senator Hillary Clinton vowed to introduce immigration reform within the first 100 days of her presidency.

ILIR chairman Niall O'Dowd and Vice-Chairman Ciaran Staunton met with Senator Clinton on Wednesday and urged her to announce a 100-day strategy at the debate after earlier submiting the same message to the campaign.

Speaking in New York on Wednesday, Mr O'Dowd said he was delighted that Senator Clinton had ramped up her support for immigration reform.

On Thursday night, Senator Clinton earned a huge cheer from the audience in the University of Texas when she said: "We need a path to legalization, to bring the immigrants out of the shadows. ... If they had committed a crime in our country or the country they came from, then they should be deported. But for everyone else, there must be a path to legalization. I would introduce that in the first 100 days of my presidency."
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