Hillary will end up just fine

[Herman Munster]

If she loses Texas or Ohio, she's going to bow out gracefully. If she wins both, she has every right to continue the dialogue and move on to Pennsylvania. At the very least, another important state will get energized with record turnout that will improve our chances in November. Probably the best thing that can happen for the party is for both candidates to barnstorm Pennsylvania for 6 weeks.

And if it ends up not working out, she will have lots of choices.

She can try to position herself for Senate Majority Leader. Reid is inept and she'll have a lot of support I'm sure within the party if she bows out gracefully.

She can go Ted Kennedy on you and just vote her liberal heart out the rest of her career being content with just being a NY senator and not having any more ambitions beyond that. Not being concerned with leadership positions allows you to vote your conscience. No more worrying about playing the role of moderate or centrist or worrying about polls.

She can become the defacto leader of the party and pick up the pieces if Obama flames out and McCain wins the general election. A 2012 run in that scenario is not out of the question. She'll be 65. It aint a spring chicken but it's not that terribly old either.

Or maybe she'll decide she's had enough of the public scrutiny that goes along with public office and would like to do other things. She may decide not to run for reelection in 2012 and maybe start her own foundation focusing on women's rights around the world or something else that will give her life richness.

She's Hillary Clinton. The world is her oyster.

[SKKY]

1. Either that, or...

...two formerly important states will suddenly become "insignificant", and she'll continue to move forward.

[jillan]

2. I agree!

She is a smart lady with alot going for her.

It will take her awhile to recup - if she doesn't bounce back -
but she'll be great, no matter what she decides.

[Fredda Weinberg]

3. I heard in passing this afternoon ... she could be the goddess of the party

I like the sound of that.

[rodeodance]

52. so do I, very very much

[Colobo]

Goddess?

[Colobo]

69. Dupe!

[NeedleCast]

80. The Democratic party

does not need "Goddesses." For fuck sake...leave that shit to the Republicans.

When you put someone on a pedestal like that, you're setting them up for failure.

[JohnnyLib2]

4. Nice post. Recommended.

I keep saying, we can expect to see her competence and leadership for many years ahead--in whatever position. :thumbsup:

[ProSense]

5. "She can become the defacto leader of the party...if Obama flames out and McCain wins"

I doubt either will happen!

[moriah]

17. I certainly hope neither will happen!

But we never know. The American electorate is well known for being difficult to predict.

My only concern regarding Obama "flaming out" is more to do with the many people I've heard say that they are Republican, they're voting for Obama in the primaries to keep Clinton away from the nomination, but plan to vote Republican in the GE. It would be very scary if that was what kept us from winning the White House. Hopefully those who are basing their primary election voting on anti-Hillaryism who plan to vote Republican in the GE will become less fired up over the Republican nominee if their strategy succeeds in keeping Hillary from the nomination.

I'm actually serious here -- I found out several of my coworkers who were Republican voted for Obama (open primary) and said that was their reasoning and they planned to vote their real party in the GE. Ugh.

[kikiek]

20. That is the problem with the states with those kind of primaries. I was wondering about how much of

that has gone on.

[John Q. Citizen]

32. That's strange, since Clinton won Arkansas, and the GOP was still undecided.

Are you sure they didn't vote Clinton?

[Arkansas Granny]

33. Her win in Arkansas is not all that surprising. Although Bush won

Arkansas in 2000 and 2004, we have a Democratic governor, two Democratic senators and 3 of our 4 representative in the House are Democrats. Not to mention that she is a former First Lady of the state.

[John Q. Citizen]

57. Hillary's win wasn't surprising. She won by what ,70%? What I found surprising is that

you said Republicans you know in Arkansaws were crossing over to vote for Obama. Clinton was so very far ahead in the polls before the race, I wonder what their motivation was?

Also the Republican race was still wide open, with Mitt, McCain, Huck, and Paul all on the ballot and in the race. Huck was ahead there also, since he was the other favorite son/daughter.

[moriah]

72. GOP undecided in AR? BS.

It was known it would be Huckabee, according to most of my coworkers, even the ones who decided to vote for either Huck or other Republican candidates. (I'm one of the few liberals in my office, I have to be very careful in my discussions of politics.) Republicans loved him as Governor -- he did largely keep his religious beliefs out of politics, and the roads did get better. I was happy on the roads part at least, really wish he hadn't signed the bill to refuse to recognize gay marriage.

I voted Clinton, but three people in my office said they planned to vote for Obama but planned to vote Republican in the GE, and self-identified as Republicans. Two others said they thought it was a good idea but didn't say who they planned to vote for. The three who said they planned to were quite proud on Election Day to have "done their part to keep Hillary out", and that was the only motivation they seemed to have for doing so.

There was also a bit of apathy among the Republicans in my office who did not seem inclined to vote in the Democratic primary for whatever reason. They said they really didn't like Romney, that McCain was too liberal, and that they knew Huck would win anyway.

We did end up going for Hillary by a wide margin for the Democratic primary, so I'm hopeful that few people would be so silly as to vote for a candidate they didn't want to win the GE in the primary. I'm also very hopeful that whoever wins our nomination also wins the Presidency. We need a Democrat in office, desperately.

[BlackVelvet04]

36. Of course that's what they are doing...

they haven't been exactly discreet about it.

[RazBerryBeret]

67. another angle...

I know 3 people in my office, lifelong republicans who are voting for Obama in the GE. they're tired of what's been happening in the last 7 years and really think he is the change candidate. I live in Ohio.

[moriah]

76. I sincerely hope...

... That for every (pardon the language, but it fits) asshat who decided to vote for Obama in the primaries to keep Hillary from the nomination but plans to vote for the Republican nominee in the GE, there are a million people like your coworkers who are voting their conscience, voting for the person they best think can lead the country, and will be voting in the GE for that same candidate. I honestly can't believe that the "Hillary Hate" is so strong that more than a few people who have crossed party lines to vote for Obama will betray him in the GE.

I may support Hillary, but I have said from the beginning that I will support our nominee. We NEED a Democrat in the White House, and with McCain all but crowned as the Republican nominee, we need all the strength we can get.

If Obama gets the nomination, I plan to work as hard as I can to ensure that "youthful voters" continue to be mobilized. We will need their numbers. McCain generally is favored by conservative-leaning Independents. He doesn't have much of a hold over his Republican base, which may lead to somewhat lower turnout for him, but we can't count on that.

[ldf]

84. tired?

why aren't they DISGUSTED?

if they are "tired", then maybe they just don't like the smell of shit emanating from bush, but are still quite comfortable with the republican party as a whole, the tactics it has taken, and the overall goals.

any person who will still admit to calling themselves republican can't be believed, or trusted.

[RazBerryBeret]

85. hmmm....

Since I'm not a Republican, I can't tell you why they aren't disgusted. I am also surprised with people who still call themselves Republican....But living in Ohio, I still see Bush/Cheney Bumper stickers. My two sons and I always have to stare at the drivers when we see those..like "are you kidding?"....

[paperbag_ princess]

28. the higher the pedestal the harder the fall

It is all fun and glowy right now with Obama's campaign....but I think that people are just putting too much on him. He is just a man...and when the expectations of his supporters are not met people will turn away. Their expectations are soooo high that he could over achieve and it still would not feel like enough of a success.

[Yael]

6. I would support that ONLY if the negative campaigning ends NOW

As a PA resident, I would love the "Iowa treatment", but not at the cost of fracturing the party and damaging our candidate in the general.

The delegatehub, scorched-earth tactics, threats of backroom deals and negative ads need to end NOW.

Let her concentrate on her strengths without tearing everyone else down and I am all for her continuing her run.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. Please

this hasnt' been a negative campaign - it's been a pretty good one.

And whatever negativity there has been hasn't only flowed in one direction.

[slick8790]

47. Uh huh.

Tell that to the 53% of Wisconsin who felt she attacked him unfairly.

[MonkeyFunk]

54. I don't care about a useless stat like that

it just indicates who's better at fighting dirty. Turns out it's Obama's campaign - they get away with it more.

[slick8790]

65. Alright. Didn't realize your opinion was more important than anything else. n/t

[Colobo]

70. Remember: Certain states don't matter... :)

[slick8790]

83. Thanks, katz.

I always keep forgetting that. Thanks for being so nice in your reminder. :)

[TheDebbieDee]

11. There you go again........defining criteria she must

meet in order to get your vote.

Why don't you just admit it: You hate Hillary and wouldn't vote for her no matter what!

Please stop with these lame excuses about negative campaigning. Those excuses are as phony as $3 bills.

[Yael]

12. Where did I say that my vote was negotiable?

I didn't. I am talking about the campaigns continuing onto my state.

As much as I would love for PA to have a say in who our nominee is, it isn't worth having shit flung all over this state to get there.

[TheDebbieDee]

19. Well, allow me to re-phrase then........

There you go again......defining criteria she must meet in order to get your FUTURE SUPPORT for any purpose whatsoever!

[Yael]

37. Hun, the topic was on continuing the campaign

If you would like to start a new topic, please feel free to do so. Neither of your responses addressed the original topic nor my responses to the original topic.

[Sparkly]

29. I think there's a double-standard here.

She has been accused of being racist, heartless, crazed by ambition, phony, and basically every synonym for "evil" you can think of -- and those are only the PERSONAL attacks!! Obama hasn't been subjected to anything close to this.

I'm not blaming Obama for this -- because it's politics -- but he has essentially run against her as being old and stale, representing the failed politics of the past, having hang-ups as part of the baby-boomer generation, lacking judgment, lacking vision, being unethical in ties to lobbyists, being disliked and divisive, being overly-emotional and reactive, etc. etc. etc... I could go on. You get the idea.

My only point is that they are BOTH "negative," and BOTH "positive," but I think there's a double-standard in the reporting and perception.

[Yael]

61. Perhaps it is because his campaign hasn't stooped to those levels?

[Sparkly]

63. Um.... Did you read my post?

:shrug:

All campaigns "stoop." His certainly did, as well. I listed several of the angles there.

[Rockholm]

78. Let it begin with Obama's supporters then.

[skooooo]

7. "She can go Ted Kennedy on you ..."

So that's why she hasn't voted liberal consistently? Because it would hurt her "ambitions?" Figures.

[Cameron27]

81. So what was Obama's excuse?

Their voting records are practically identical.

[skooooo]

82. not on the war

[goldcanyonaz]

8. Supreme Court!

[OzarkDem]

10. If she bows out Dems will lose the WH, no doubt about it

As McCain keeps polling stronger, the prospects of Obama defeating him grow dimmer. I really don't look forward to more GOP control.

Its the Dems race to lose and if Clinton gets pushed out we are up shit creek.

[Blarch]

13. I must be seeing something your not.

Are you huffing glue ? :shrug:

[OzarkDem]

16. Celebrity candidates don't last long

when they run against Republicans. When the news media and GOP get hold of Obama in the GE, he will sink...fast. He's getting good treatment now, it won't last.

[Alexander]

22. Are you kidding? "Celebrity candidates" almost always win.

Do I need to remind you of John Glenn, Ronald Reagan, Jesse Ventura, Sonny Bono and John Hall?

Pass some of that over here, while you're at it.

[Blarch]

24. Puff Puff Pass.

[OzarkDem]

27. So this is the Obama crowd?

:eyes: Scary. I guess you all plan to move to Canada if Obama loses to McCain.

[OzarkDem]

25. Dem Celebrity candidates don't

John Glenn lost the primary he ran in, remember?

What a moran.

[Alexander]

40. Apart from Obama not being a celebrity, Glenn was elected to the Senate 4 times.

He never had a chance to run against Reagan. Walter Mondale did and lost. I suspect Glenn would've done better than Mondale's near-shut out.

Don't bogart that blunt.

[jackson_dem]

42. Glenn flamed out in the Dem presidential primaries. That is what OzarkDem is referring to

[Political Heretic]

48. McCain is not "polling stronger"

I hope every person here who speaks with such confidence about how certain they are we are going to lose has the integrity to come back where when we win anyway and own up to their stupidity.

McCain's not beating anyone this year.

[cali]

50. pay some attention. do you have any freakin' idea what's going

on with McCain. You pull more ridiculous stuff out of thin air, completely made up crap, than any poster here. And you don't have a crystal ball. You don't have a clue as to what will happen in November. Unbelievable.

[avrdream]

66. I think the same thing. A lot of us do.

If McCain wins, I suspect Hillary will give it another go in 4 years but will do it a whole lot differently: a lot more of those under $200.00 donors, for example.

[loveangelc]

74. This is the one of stupidest things I've ever heard,

How the hell do you expect Hillary to beat McCain if she is squandering 20 point leads in every state and starts out with a 48% negative rating in a general election????? No, her negatives are not as high as they can go, the Republicans will make them go up even more, and at least Obama's start out low and is more likeable than McCain (and Hillary). So far, negative attacks thrown at him seems to bounce off of him.

How does she explain being 7 million in debt in the month of January, wasting thousands of dollars in a month...ON DONUTS!??????? AND TENS OF THOUSANDS ON DELI PLATTERS!!!???!? And she wants to handle the economy??? Um, no.

Every poll has her losing to McCain because MEN WILL NOT VOTE FOR HER. Do not tell me that women will make up the difference, because the male vote is very important in the general election. Women will support Obama and Hillary pretty much equally during the general election. Maybe not everyone but for the most part. However, men are not going to support Hillary. I would like to know why we should nominate a person that does so poorly on men. I do not know very many straight men that are enthusiastic about Hillary.

This race was hers to lose. She has run what many have called one of the worst campaigns in modern history. I don't understand why we would expect much different in a general election.

The idea that Hillary would win in November would be hilarious if I didn't know you were actually serious...

[sellitman]

79. Where are you pulling this stuff out from?

[cloud75]

14. no matter what happens Hillary is my hero..my Dad's was JFK

Hillary is mine...i've never had a hero besides football players growing up but over the last few months i've seen someone who really does care for this country it doesn't always come across that way because of the media bias but there are moments when i've seen it she makes that connection with me she does care about people and when it's all said and done she will go down in history as one of the most influential people in the world president or not.

[kikiek]

21. Great post. So true.

[Auntie Bush]

34. Hear! Hear!

[emilyg]

35. Nice.

[cbayer]

15. Beautifully written positive post.

Thanks.

[Bucky]

18. Her liberal heart....

... is pragmatic. She's never NOT hustled her way to the top. She's a tough pol and a real pro. But she's a compromiser, a deal cutter. She'll never be a Ted Kennedy, but I do see her being a great Hillary Clinton for many years to come.

[Olney Blue]

23. Thanks, Herman. That's a wonderful post.

[anamandujano]

26. I think her comment has been taken out of context. She was saying

she and Obama are wealthy and protected from all the issues that hurt the middle class and poor. She finished the comment by saying something to the effect of "I'm worried about you, this fight is for you."

[rodeodance]

53. yes, she wad referring to the PEOPLE.

[dansolo]

30. Having the primary go on to Pennsylvania is not the best thing for the party

There is a long stretch before the Pennsylvania primary. Unless Hillary wins big in both TX and OH, she should bow out for the good of the party.

Personally I would hate to see her as Senate Majority Leader. Until she can demonstrate that she can play well with others, I don't want her to be in a position to derail anything that Obama will try to accomplish. Everything she does would be seen through the prism of a potential 2012 presidential run.

[anamandujano]

31. She should finish primary season. That is best for the party.

[Yael]

39. You apparently don't live in PA

[anamandujano]

55. And how might that relate to anything we're discussing here?

[Yael]

59. Did you read the entire thread or just the titles?

[Yael]

38. You can count on 6 weeks of shit flinging if she doesn't pull TX/OH and stays in

Thanks but no thanks.

[scheming daemons]

41. For a rare time, I am in agreement with you Herman....

...but do you REALLY think she will bow out gracefully if she loses either Texas or Ohio?


I don't. I think if she wins ONE, she'll stay in and fight a losing battle all the way to the convention.

[Herman Munster]

43. she has to win Texas and Ohio

That's the only thing preventing a massive wave of superdelegate defections. She's gone through the back channels and told the powers that be that if she doesn't win Ohio and Texas, she's out. Don't defect and embarass me or yourself until after March 4th.

Bill wouldn't go on the stump in Texas and say anything like that if it wasn't a done deal inside their campaign.

And it's the right thing to do. She can't win without winning Texas and Ohio. She has to stop this Obama momentum in its tracks.

If she wins Texas and Ohio, suddenly the focus shifts to Obama and why he can't close the deal? Why with all this money, media attention, momentum can't he finish Hillary off?

[anamandujano]

58. That announcement will bring the meddling Repukes out in droves.

[Yael]

60. Good analysis

:thumbsup:

[Rowdyboy]

44. As you say, she has options that are pretty nice....

Reid can't win reelection in Nevada if he remains party leader. She could have the job in 2010 if she wants. There she could establish as strong a liberal record as she chose and face NO backlash from her constituents, the kind of backlash that crippled Daschle and are destroying Reid. Then, if there is an opening in 2012, she could run again.

Senator Clinton is talented and smart. She has a world of options. She'll know when its time to get out and she'll probably wind up on top.

[LittleBlue]

45. She'd be a disaster as a President, but good as a majority leader.

I'm tired of wimpy Harry, the professional handwringer.

[Straight Shooter]

49. You're tired of wimpy Harry, the professional handwringer.

Barack is Harry's "favored son." (Reid appointed Barack to the Ethics Committee.)

We've all seen the wisdom of Harry's judgment. Harry Reid, the conservative Dem from a conservative state, leading us to a perpetual state of increasingly egregious compromises with the GOP.

[Eric J in MN]

71. I want Chris Dodd as Senate Majority Leader.

He's shown more interest in civil liberties than Hillary Clinton has.

[Political Heretic]

46. I completely agree.

[judaspriestess]

51. no matter what happens, Hillary is going to have a greater impact

on whatever she does because of this...... I am proud of her and her accomplishments.

ROCK ON HILLARY!!!

[cali]

56. great post

and yeah, she'll do great whatever happens. k&r

[AGirl]

62. Hillary will end up as the president.

[Little Star]

64. Amen!

[Johnny__Motown]

68. I agree, nice post

[DeepModem Mom]

73. Thanks, Herman -- K&R. nt

[Beacool]

75. Hillary will be fine, though I'm not sure about the rest of us.

I, and after going to other blogs, many Hillary supporters will not forgive nor forget the vile way that Hillary has been treated by the left of the party and the misogynist crap that was thrown at her by all sides of the political spectrum and the media. Since all of this was dismissed with a chuckle and remarks about Hillary playing the "victim card", I and many others will not forget it in November. No more money for the DNC, no more spending countless hours volunteering to help "our" nominee win the WH, not even sure if holding one's nose will even drag some of us to the voting booth.

[calico1]

77. What has really shocked and sickened me about

this campaign season is not the RW attacks against her but attacks from the Left, from Democrats! This is supposed to help the party? How? And even though I support her it would be equally destructive and poisonous if this was against Barack Obama. You expect it from the slugs on the Right. You don't expect it from fellow Democrats and Progressives. I will have a hard time dealing with this for some time to come.

[Tom Joad]

86. I think supporting Bush on the war on Iraq should disqualify anyone from

political office.
like she said, if that was important to people, there are others to choose from.
It turns out it was important to people.

I do think if she wants to hang around the senate offices, there are several maintenance positions opening up that will suit her just fine. that would be a good job for Reid too.

[Beacool]

87. That would disqualify plenty of Democrats in Congress,

including the anointed one. Even though he keeps harping ad nauseam how he wouldn't have voted for the war he has since financed it every step of the way. His vote and Hillary's are parallel on that issue. Ahhhh, the hypocrisy of a candidate who came up thanks to the Chicago Southside machine but now pretends to act like an innocent babe in the woods.

[Tom Joad]

88. yeah, i agree with that. I don't think there are many qualified

politicians in office. obama is a cosmetic difference. but i think that people voting for even this symbolic difference is important. It means the people know this war was at least a mistake. I think it was a crime.

I wish there were more important differences between them.

[quiet.american]

89. I don't actually recall being worried sick about her. Of course, she'll be fine. :)

Why wouldn't she be?

[Laelth]

90. I like the "stay in the Senate and vote her conscience" option.

But it's not my choice to make. We'll see what she chooses in time.

:dem:

-Laelth