Clinton in Cincinnati: Obama untested, just like Bush was

[bigtree]

Hillary Clinton reacts while campaigning at Cincinnati State Technical and Community College in Cincinnati, Ohio, Saturday, Feb. 23


CINCINNATI — Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton today sought to draw parallels to President Bush and her current rival, Barack Obama, saying Bush was an untested commodity as a Republican candidate for the White House who promised voters change and “the American people got shafted.”

“So, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me,” Clinton, facing a difficult task in trying to stall Obama’s momentum, told a crowd at Cincinnati State Technical and Community College this morning as she tried to woo voters in a March 4 primary that is critical to the fate of her candidacy.

“Do you think people voting in 2000 knew what they were getting?” she said, referring to Bush’s first-term bid for the presidency as a governor of Texas. “People thought they were getting a compassionate conservative. It turned out he was neither. We’ve been living with the consequences of those mistakes.”

“He promised change as a compassionate conservative and the American people got shafted and we’re going to have to make up for it,” she said.

Without mentioning Obama’s name, Clinton contended her rival has sought to portray having experience as “a disadvantage” and something “that doesn’t count for much anymore.” But she said, if a person needs a serious operation, they don’t ask for a surgeon who’s never performed the procedure.

Clinton also harkened back to one of her early Iowa campaign criticisms of Obama on the issue of their differing plans to expand access to health care. Her plan mandates that everyone get insurance, while Obama’s only mandates coverage for children. Obama maintains his plan would make insurance more affordable but Clinton contends it would leave 15 million people uninsured and not accomplish the goal of universal health care.

“Why would we give up on what has been one of the most important goals, which I believe is a moral imperative,” she said. “It is a right to have access to health care, not a privilege. Why would we have a Democrat undercut that?”

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/clinton_obama_is_untested_just.html

[Kahuna]

1. Point, cackle, clap. That's our Hill!!

;)

[catgirl]

5. LOL!

You forgot- and nod.

[Kahuna]

22. But you can't really see the nod in the picture....or the "clown eyes" that

surely proceeded the clap. ;)

[bigtree]

28. 'hope and unity'

[BlackVelvet04]

57. meow.....n/t

[OzarkDem]

75. Excellent point, Hillary! Glad she brought it up

Truer words were never spoken.

[blm]

88. Then why did Bill spend 3 weeks DEFENDING Bush and supporting his decisions

on terrorism and Iraq war and 'repeatedly defend Bush from critisms of the left' instead of siding with John Kerry who was Bush's biggest critic on the left at the time of Bill's 3 week defense of Bush tour in 2004?

Hillary and Bill stayed on the same page supporting Bush as Joe Lieberman from 2001-2006 and only after Joe lost his primary race did Clintons adjust their rhetoric leftward.

[MindMatter]

87. Repeat after me. Obama 11, Vlinton 8

That's how many years each has served in elected office. So let's cut this bullshit about Clinton's superior experience. They both have plenty of life experience, and if the argument comes down to government experience, then Obama wins that one.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. and Hillary is absolutely right!

[journalist3072]

6. And you know it! eom

[Windy]

There is something oxymoronic about associating your posts with a picture of Albert Einstein. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

69. fail

[catgirl]

3. How pathetic. Comparing Obama to Bush?

This shows how unreasonable Clinton is...and how desperate.

[bigtree]

16. Obama called Clinton 'Bush-Cheney Light'

“I’m not afraid to lose the P.R. war to dictators,” Obama said in a speech in Concord, New Hampshire, where he picked up an early Granite State endorsement from first-term Democratic Congressman Paul Hodes. “I’m happy to look them in the eyes and say what needs to be said… I don't want Bush-Cheney Light.”

In a later conference call with the press, Obama continued on the topic: “Part of the Bush doctrine has been to say ‘no.’ You'll have to ask Senator Clinton what differentiates her position from theirs.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/07/26/obama-calls-clinton-like-diplomacy-stance-bush-cheney-light/


“You know, I have been called a lot of things in my life, but I have never been called George Bush or Dick Cheney certainly,” Clinton told CNN’s John King.

“You know you have to ask whatever has happened to the politics of hope,” Clinton added, in reference to the Illinois Democrat's familiar campaign theme.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/07/27/clinton-calls-bush-cheney-comparison-silly/

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

27. He's calling McCain bush light n/t

[bigtree]

37. read the article and the quotes. Just bullshitting about what he said won't change it.

This was in July of last year.

[catgirl]

32. For good reason

She has been too kind to big corporations to the detriment of american
workers.

[bigtree]

39. So, you think that 'tactic' works for him?

So transparently duplicitous of you.

[OzarkDem]

76. How accurate - face the truth, kids

Your guy has no more experience than Bush, in fact, he has a lot less.

[gmudem]

82. Obama has been elected more times than Clinton

Being First Lady does not count as executive experience.

[Kaylee]

4. This "experience" platform really baffles me...

and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Did I miss the years when she was Commander-in-chief?

[bigtree]

25. she accomplished some stuff besides her present Senate service

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health. The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady. As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997), Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997), and Children and Adolescents (2000), and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000) and Philanthropy (1999).

Hillary Clinton traveled to 79 countries during this time, breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon. In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself, declaring "that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women's rights as separate from human rights" and resisting Chinese pressure to soften her remarks. She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan. She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.

[Kaylee]

48. That shows experience at being an exceptional first lady...

and a competent Senator. Look, I have nothing against Senator Clinton and will definitely be voting for her should she get the nomination. But when I hear the charge "Well, I have experience and Obama doesn't", I immediately think about the fact that she wasn't the President, Bill was. He's the one with the experience.

[NC_Nurse]

7. They don't ask for the surgeon's wife either.

:eyes:

[GarbagemanLB]

10. but she's worked the night shift.

[jmg257]

23. Excellent point! Brilliant! (wish I had come up with it! :) )

[CTLawGuy]

40. good one!

NT

[bigtree]

43. they would, if she was an accomplished apprentice

:beer:

[cliffordu]

53. HAHHAHAHAHAHA

:rofl::rofl::rofl:rofl:

[VotesForWomen]

83. i'm sorry; being a surgeon isn't quite like being president. you know that don't you? and if

said surgeon's wife had been a resident, watching and assisting on surgeries, that would indeed be some very good training for practicing surgery herself, wouldn't it?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

8. Obama has more legislative experience than Hillary.

He was in the IL state senate from 1997 to 2004, then in the U.S. Senate since then.

Hillary's first term started in 2001.

[Thepricebreaker]

71. Shhhh people might yell at you because that makes sense.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

77. Well, Illinois is a state that "doesn't count."

;)

[cali]

9. this is not a winning tactic for her

it's likely to cause blowback instead of positive momentum. I don't get how politically tone deaf this campaign has been, and continues to be. She's certainly free to go after him any way she wishes, but this is not a winner for Camp Clinton.

[Danger Mouse]

13. time and again, it has been shown that going negative does NOT work for her.

look at New Hampshire and Super Tuesday...she does best when she REFRAINS from attacks.
but now she's backed into a corner...

[H2O Man]

17. Right.

It is not a good tactic -- neither of the democratic candidates has an hour's experience at being president, while George W. Bush has had seven years' worth. A great surgeon, that George.

[Danger Mouse]

11. Point A: Hillary has not been president before.

Her 'surgeon' bit is moot.

Point B: Comparing Obama to Bush? Keep reaching!

[H2O Man]

18. You are fast.

I was posting this same basic message in a response to cali.

[Crunchy Frog]

12. She's demonstrated just how incompetent she is to lead

by this campaign that she's been running.

[DemGa]

14. She's telling you the truth

Of course all you can do is point and smear with your tired refrain of "desperate." Obama's inexperience will be a huge factor if he is nominated.

[Kaylee]

21. Neither one of them have experience at being President....

or governor, or mayor, etc. They are both Senators...that's it.

[ProSense]

15. Well, her campaign is doing a

heckuva job emulating Repub smear tactics.

[texas_indy]

19. Wrong. * was a gov. for 6 years and had far more experience than Hillary, and

he has been a MAJOR disaster for us and the world.

This experience mantra is a stupid argument to make for her.

But, whatever she can do or say to help Obama get the nomination is fine by me.


Texas is Obama country!

[cali]

26. huh? She's been a Senator for 7 years

and has had far more gov't experience than bush had. I support Obama, but that's just horse shit. And yes, some of the time that Hillary spent as First Lady damn welll is experience. She ran a major policy initiative, despite it's failing. You either believe we can learn from our failures or you don't. Both Obama and Clinton have greater experience than bush had.

[texas_indy]

42. We'll just have to disagree, 7 years as a state gov. beats 7 years as a senator.

The experience is a stupid argument. * beats both of them since he had far more executive experience.
Neither of them have had that.

For me experience means squat since i think the person themselves is more important than experience.

I would vote for Hillary if she were the nominee, but I believe we would lose major time with her.
I support Obama because I believe we will win.


Texas is Obama country.

[bigtree]

31. part time governor, but, you go ahead and tell us how much experience he had

how much he had traveled outside of America. Tell us how George Bush's experience as a part-time governor was anything comparable to Hillary Clinton's life experience.

[texas_indy]

45. Part time gov? Sorry, Texas only has full time gov. And if traveling

outside of the US is grounds for being president, then my cousin should go for it since he has guided tours in Europe, and Asia. As a bonus he currently lives full time in Thailand and gives exclusive tours in China.


Texas is Obama country.

[bigtree]

51. "I hope the calendar will prove it to you," Bush said.

Daily appointment calendars offer a fresh view of Bush's only full term in public office. Though such documents are usually kept private until a politician leaves office, The Times obtained the governor's schedules through the Texas Open Records Act. Revealing patterns emerge from 3,125 pages of appointments covering 1995 through 1998--along with interviews with Bush, top aides and others who saw him.

Blessed by a humming economy and a tenure free of major crisis, Bush fashioned both a brisk pace and an amiable, nonconfrontational atmosphere. He focused on a few issues, preferred short meetings and insisted on a two-hour midday break centered on a rejuvenating run.

Bush, 54, said in an interview that it is important for voters to judge "whether or not I could make the decisions given the degree of pressure that the president is going to have to face. . . . Are you able to maintain a pace and make sound decisions?"

The governor's typical work schedule during his first term consisted of "two hard half days," in chief of staff Clay Johnson's words. Bush usually arrived at the Capitol about 7:30 a.m.

His scheduled appointments began about 8:30 a.m. and usually continued in 15- or 30-minute increments.

"I hope the calendar will prove it to you," Bush said. "I don't like long meetings."

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/02/latimes.bush.detail/index.html

[texas_indy]

55. As i said, Texas only has gov, not 1/2 gov last time I saw the ballot.

I never said he was a good gov. I was very depressed and angry when beat Ann Richards for Texas gov. And Ann was the incumbent and * had no political experience at all!

And then the US votes for him not only once, but twice!! And we get stuck with * jr., perry.

* sucked as a gov and sucks as a president. I never claimed otherwise. But, he still had more experience than either Obama or Hillary when he ran for president the 1st time.


Texas is Obama country!

[bigtree]

60. I think it was Molly Ivins who described him as one

[carlotta]

20. Yes!!!! That's the argument I have been hoping for

Looks like she found her voice, again. Sadly, I think it's too late. It is a very valid argument, however. After Bill Clinton, people were fed up with all the animosity, scandals (even though they were manufactured ones, except for Lewinsky) and along came GWB, who other than having a familiar last name, was unknown to the electorate. The media gave him the same kid glove treatment that they gave Obama. He was hailed as being "a uniter, not a divider", someone who would bring integrity back to the White House, someone who would have a "humble foreign policy" and someone who would reach across the aisle to Democrats. Those who bought into this really believed it--it was again "change" from what they had been seeing for the eight preceding years.

If that didn't teach Americans that campaign rhetoric is meaningless, well, I guess they deserve what they get.

[cali]

33. she's been trying this for a while now- linking Obama to

bush and it hasn't worked. It certainly is not a valid argument and that's why it screws her when she uses it.

In addition, perhaps you should do some reading. Our greatest and most effective presidents were the best orators. Being an effective president is commonly linked with being an effective commicator. The historian Douglas Brinkley has written about this. Of course, that doesn't mean that Obama will be a good or effective president, but oratorial skills and the deft use of rhetoric can be very important tools in a presidential toolbox.

[bigtree]

35. Obama associated Clinton with Bush in July

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/07/27/clinton-calls-bush-cheney-comparison-silly/

[cali]

47. here's what I said

"She's certainly free to go after him any way she wishes, but this is not a winner for Camp Clinton."

I know it's hardball. I did not say it wasn't "fair" or that she was being a "meanie". I said it doesn't work for her, thus your response to me is.... unresponsive. Clinton going negative has been counter-productive for her. That's not hard to figure out. When she comes across as more positive and sympathetic, she does better, and that's why I noted that it seems tone deaf of her campaign to pursue this strategy. Perhaps you'd care to address my actual points. Or perhaps you wouldn't.

[whatchamacallit]

24. Clinton is "tested" like Rudy Giuliani is "tested"

Just saying it repeatedly doesn't make it so.

[Windy]

29. I was born and raised in cincinnati. Hillary has no chance there

and unfortunately, neither does Obama.

I'm just curious. Was Paul Hackett or Sherod Brown at the rally for Mrs. C?

I wonder if they will be there when Obama comes to town. The could help him immensely!

[global1]

30. I'm Sorry - Didn't She Just Complement Him The Other Night At The Debate?......

Wasn't that part of her big close the other night. How can she say one thing at the debate and then go 180 on the campaign trail. Doesn't she think people watched the debate?

[bigtree]

34. she's saying he's good, but, she's better

not a difficult concept

[pdxmom]

36. Wow! Just 2 days ago, she was saying how honored she was to be

on the same stage with Obama. Now, she is comparing him to *? Does this means she's honored when she is together with *?

[bigtree]

41. she's comparing what she says is his unknown ability and intent to Bush's unknowns when he ran.

She's already said he's more than competent and otherwise in opposition to the republicans.

[Armstead]

44. C'mon Mr. Tree. Accept the fact that she's trying to drag Obama down.

Whether rightly or wrongly, she continues to do everything possible to make Obama seem as unelectable and unqualified as she can.

[bigtree]

46. do I have to post the criticisms Barack has made of his rival on the campaign trail?

Can we just agree here that these 'unelectable' charges have gone back and forth from both candidates?

[Armstead]

50. Yes. I can agree on that.

But it is a contrast to the tone of her highly touted conciliatory closing statement in the debates.

[yourguide]

38. Bush was tested

He managed to run every company he was in charge of into the ground prior to succeeding in politics. THAT should have been writing on the wall.

[EFerrari]

49. Great. Now Hillary is comparing Obama to Bush.

Can she be more self-destructive? It's embarrassing already.

[bigtree]

52. was it 'embarassing' when Obama did the same in July of last year?

[EFerrari]

54. Yes, it was. But clearly the Clinton campaign takes the

Shoot Yourself In The Foot Award this cycle. Instead of sniping at Obama, there's a hundred positive things they could be pointing to. The acrimony is a signal turn off and both of them should know that. Really, it's like they have a death wish.

[bigtree]

63. we'll see. I like the positive stuff. It's easier to defend.

[EFerrari]

74. If the Clintons just graciously talked about the stuff they've done

and are doing, they'd be in the lead right now. I'm sure of it. Whoever is pushing the campaign in this direction is an idiot.

[democrattotheend]

56. Bush has actually been pretty successful

at getting his agenda passed. IMO, his policies have been incredibly destructive, but he has been effective at getting things done, even if they are bad things. His inexperience hasn't prevented him from successfully stewarding his agenda.

If Obama has as much success passing his agenda as Bush has had pushing his, I'll be pretty satisfied.

[jenmito]

58. Point point clap clap...lie lie dodge dodge...

Why, at the debate, wouldn't she defend her accusations of Obama not being ready to lead from day one or that he's not experienced enough to be president?

[bigtree]

61. because she's never said that. She has said that she thinks she's more qualified.

[jenmito]

67. They quoted her. Her exact words. She refused to stand by them. n/t

[cooolandrew]

59. It lifts me up to see how she positively promotes her attributes for office.

maybe

[skipos]

62. Too bad Hillary has failed many tests

IWR being a big one. She is also running a tremendously shitty campaign for someone who fancies herself so "experienced."

[bigtree]

64. Besides that one speech (which he's really good at) Obama failed the test on Iraq

I don't happen to think a speech made from the safe position of a state legislator seat in a liberal district is any match for having the actual responsibility for that vote. Obama's blurring of that distinction between having the responsibility and making an opportunistic speech is dishonest and self-serving.

He pulled his punches for Kerry, at the 2004 convention, who had cast the identical Iraq resolution vote as Clinton. "What would I have done?" he responded when asked about that vote. "I don't know," Obama told the New York Times.

Obama never spoke out in any overt way against the occupation when he got in to the Senate. In June of 2006, Obama voted against a proposal by Sen. John Kerry to remove most troops from Iraq within a year, calling it an "arbitrary deadline" that could "compound" previous US missteps there.

Obama gave his first major speech about Iraq as a member of the Senate in November 2005, 11 months into his term. He didn't introduce legislation to end the war until last January, when he was exploring a run for president.

He first voted against funding for the war in May 2007, after he had declared his candidacy for president.

Not exactly the opposition he pretends in this campaign..

[skipos]

65. If he "failed" on Iraq by speaking out against it, what do you call what Hillary did? nt

[bigtree]

78. oh, but Obama claims superiority on this issue

[Beregond2]

66. Tested

And just like she is, and just like her husband was...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

68. A Bucket of Truth

[psychopomp]

70. I think this campaign has tested Sen. Obama

and he has passed with flying colors, unlike the "ready on day one" candidate who is heading up a failing, flailing campaign.

“He promised change as a compassionate conservative and the American people got shafted and we’re going to have to make up for it,” she said.

Sen. Clinton believes that this kind of bush* nonsense from his campaign is bunk but still voted to authorize his foolish, unnecessary war on Iraq, believing that he wouldn't screw that up:crazy:

[Thepricebreaker]

72. What BS - Isn't every NEW president untested as president? LOL

[OzarkDem]

73. He has many similiarities to Bush

Glad she brought this up. Obama has the same arrogance, thin skin, petulance and inferiority complex as the chimp.

He doesn't get along well with others, particularly those who disagree with him.

He's a delegator

He's incurious, only interested in things that affect him personally

He's easily manipulated by those who have more money and power than him

He's willing to lie to anyone, anytime about anything to help himself

He has no serious commitment to any policy or ideals except those that advance his personal interests

He is different in one respect - he's a shapeshifter, he's willing to try to deceive people in order to get what he wants

[Vinca]

80. That's BS - complete and total BS.

There is no comparison between Obama and Bush. You guys are really, really bad losers.

[OzarkDem]

86. Its true and Obama knows it.

[Johnny__Motown]

79. This was answered in the debate., You believe every newspaper that endorsed him has been "Duped"

I don't think so either

[VotesForWomen]

81. it's true; most people never even heard of this guy a year ago, and now they're positive he

belongs in the most powerful position on the planet.

[book_worm]

84. exactly how is Clinton so much more tested?

her elective career isn't longer than Obama's if you include state elections. So what she was First Lady. Does that qualify Pickles to be president?

[XemaSab]

85. Hillary's just pissed that Obama ripped off the Clinton '92 campaign

n/t

[JoFerret]

89. Obama is similar to Bush

...in that respect it's true. Although he's a whole load smarter.

[OwnedByFerrets]

90. I have NEVER posted a negative against Hillary.....

this will be the first time.....FU for comparing Obama to a fucking war criminal. Democrats dont compare each other to FUCKING war criminals. FU...you will fucking NEVER get my vote now.