How will Hillary explain her support for garnishing wages to a general election audience?

[bluestateguy]

I see that as a real problem in a general election, tailor made for attack ads.

If Americans are ever going to support universal health care, it will have to be done gradually, and without bossy mandates from government. It's one thing to issue mandates on corporations, but threatening a grocery store worker who makes $25,000 a year with garnishment is not a winning strategy.

[Rosemary2205]

1. My parents intended to vote for her until they heard that part.

They are lower blue collar, small means, struggling senior citizens. They intended to vote for her mostly BECAUSE of wanting universal healthcare. Then the point was made one of the most recent debates that she would garnish the wages of people who don't buy insurance. They think punishing the little people for being too little to put yet more of their money into the hands of rich insurance companies is just assinine.

They aren't particularly excited by Obama or McCain either. They may sit this one out. My dad says he wishes John Edwards would start a new party.

[Dogmudgeon]

2. The "garnish your wages" meme is back!

It was also used in the 1930s when FDR imposed many bossy government mandates on us. (I think "confiscate" was used more than "garnish".) And in the 60s over Medicare.

As Maurice Chevalier once sang, "yes, I remember it well".

--p!

[sandnsea]

5. SS & Medicare are entitlements, not mandates

There is a guaranteed full benefit. Hillary is talking about garnishing wages to pay the penalty for not buying insurance. And even if she garnishes it to pay for insurance, insurance is not the same kind of entitlement benefit as Medicare. It is not he same thing and she is bald-faced lying to pretend it is. She knows better. She's blowing smoke up the ass of millions of uninformed voters, pretending she is bringing them free health care when she isn't.

[Dogmudgeon]

24. Try not paying your SS withholding tax some time

It's a mandate. Really.

Speaking of smoke up the ass, Obama's plan mandates payment from all parents to cover their children. "But that's different!" Well, no it isn't. It may be the right thing to do, but it's not different.

Both plans are insufficient. We need single-payer universal. I'm willing to put up with either the HRC or the BHO plan for a few years as a transition, but single-payer universal is where the fight ought to be.

--p!

[sandnsea]

26. With an entitled set of benefits

that everybody can claim. It does not vary depending on which insurance company is involved, what your employer chooses to do, etc. She is not offering a SS-like plan, that would be single payer. Anybody who says she is is intentionally LYING and they know it.

I think Obama will have difficulties convincing people to mandate kids' insurance too, but at least we have a system in place to help kids and we know that insuring kids is cheap, very cheap.

I am not willing to lose the opportunity to have subsidized insurance because of Hillary's political insensitivity in demanding mandates when any idiot can look around and see that it is shot down every time voters have a chance to express their political will.

[Dogmudgeon]

30. I can only shake my head in disbelief

Under HRC's plan, everyone (who is able) must pay, but everyone gets coverage. That sure sounds like an entitled set of benefits.

I'm for universal single-payer. Hillary's plan falls short, as does Obama's. But either one is a first step. The criticisms of HRC's plan have almost all been to cry "Garnish! Garnish! Mandate! Liar!" But Obama's plan also has a pretty big crack to fall through.

Of course, the actual financial weaknesses and strengths of the plans are not on the table. Ever. So when John McCain lays into the weaknesses of Obamacare that they perceive, it will come as a surprise. Hillary, at least, makes no excuses for requiring compulsory coverage.

(I originally wrote something different. But I am all out of hope right now. It's not that I think HRC is sunk -- she isn't, but things are not looking very good. I'm wondering how I will be able to work with people who are quick to call everybody who disagrees with them liars.)

--p!

[sandnsea]

31. Who decides who is able?

What happens when the government decides everyone is able to pay 10% of their income, but the health insurance has $1500 deductibles and co-pays for doctors and drugs, and dental and optical isn't included. What happens then? She's not offering a defined set of benefits that everybody is entitled to. There is NO comparison to Medicare or SS. NONE. ZERO. ZIP.

She's mandating you buy some kind of insurance and nobody is going to know how much you're going to have to pay or what you're going to get for it.

Obama is offering subsidies and premiums that will be based on income. There will be people who still won't have health care, but there will be with Hillary's plan too. She IS NOT providing a health care card to everyone, she is lying when she says she has a plan to cover everybody. She doesn't.

[DURHAM D]

3. Do you call SS and Medicare deductions "garnishing"? eom

[sandnsea]

7. See #5

It is a lie that her health plan is the same as SS & Medicare, a pure out lie that she is telling.

[DURHAM D]

12. Did you get that from your RNC email propaganda?

After this post you go on ignore. Sadly, I won't know when you are TSed.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

18. Do my SS and Medicare deductions go to private corporations?

Can I be made to pay a large deductible and denied claims by some pencil pusher when I try to use them?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. the same way they garnish your pay for SS, Military, Education, Police & Fire Protection, Transp.

[JimGinPA]

6. Garnish Wages to BUY Insurance - Figure It Out Hillbots nt

[Sadie5]

14. Check your facts

Obama said something about Mass. having done this so that to me means he intends to do much the same as Hillary intends to do. You have such hatred for Hillary that you will tell any lie that is handy. BO SAID EXACTLY THE SAME THING BUT IN OTHER WORDS. Plus, wasn't the Mass insurance plan Romney's idea? I'd say BO really intends to use those good conservative qualities he brags about.

[JimGinPA]

20. Hillary Said That About Garnishing Wages Herself - You Check The Facts

:dunce:

[MadHound]

8. Yep, add mandatory to that, and a lot of people turn away

Especially since this mandatory policy will require you to pay money into the insurance industry. Hmm, with such monopoly power, what's to prevent them from jacking their premiums up through the roof. Oh, yeah, nothing, nothing at all. No wonder the majority of their money went to Hillary's campaign.

[napi21]

9. Personally I think HC should be handled the same as SS

and Medicare. You work, you HAVE to pay a % for health care. Neither of those programs would work if they weren't mandatory, and neither will voluntary HC! Extra HC ins. could be available to purchase if you chose...coverage for elective surgeries, or some kind of premium care. Basic HC & ER would be covered by the amount you pay through PR deduction.

[TexasObserver]

10. Well, she won't, since she'll be on the sidelines, but she can't explain it.

It's a ghastly proposal, one WRITTEN by the INSURANCE INDUSTRY.

Geez, Louise, it doesn't get any clearer than that.

[Johnny__Motown]

11. I still want to know how much the enforcement of her mandate will cost

She says 15 million people will not sign up for Obama's plan. It is reasonable to assume a similar number will resist Clinton's plan.

How large will an enforcement entity need to be to garnish the wages of 15,000,000 people. How much will it cost and where will that money come from?

[blogslut]

13. Good question

I wonder how that plays to the masses? I HOPE I don't have to find out.

[BlackVelvet04]

15. Same way mandator SS and Medicare payments were explained......

yeah, let's don't do anything hard, let's just hold hands and have us a rally.

WTF is wrong with you people?

[Rosemary2205]

23. SS is not privatized and Medicare is falling apart because it partially is

Medicare is in serious deep financial trouble. Makes the future of SS look bright. Youngsters and even most middle agers expect to never receive one dime from SS because the boomers and politicians will have sucked it dry by then. To most people with any means at all, their retirement is all about thier own IRA or 401K, NOT social security and medicare.

Comparing Clinton's healthcare plan to SS and Medicare is not a good campaign strategy IMHO.

[BlackVelvet04]

25. It's a matter of priorities...

Medicare is only in trouble because of the priorities of this nation. SS doesn't have to be privatized to be mandated.

[OHdem10]

16. Spoken like a true GOP representative--If Americans are ever

to support health care. This proves my suspicion re Obama
He never really planned for Health Care at all. This is why
he takes McCain, Boehner, McConnell and their follower's position.

NO Mandates No Mandates No Mandates. This is how the GOP
plan to block Health Care and Obama shares their positon.

Wonder how fast he will change his position on Iraq in order
to appease the GOP.

[MadHound]

19. You know, you really lose the debate, and a lot of respect,

When you start calling a Democratic candidate a "GOP representative". It shows you up as intellectually void and morally bankrupt.

If you want to debate the issues, fine, but you really should stay away from the over-the-top rhetoric. It makes you look foolish and pathetic.

[HeraldSquare212]

17. I agree - it's a killer, no one will go for that.

it's like asking people to write a blank check.

[Windy]

21. How'd ya like her invoking of john edwards in that tirade? Really makes her appear desperate.

she lost the teamsters, et al and she is trying to entice their membership with distortion.

Sad.

[CatnHat]

22. Is that why

universal health care works so well in other countries? Do some research on how well universal health care works in Canada and Europe. Before slinging attacks, do your research. Enough of distortions. Hillary's plan is right on course with John Edward's plan. The focus is giving everyone health care, not leaving millions to "fend" for themselves. Yet, the Obama supporters were salivating over Edwards to endorse Obama. If you don't support Hillary/Edward's plan, how can you attack Hillary without attacking Edwards.

[TheWraith]

28. Hillary's plan is nothing like how healthcare works in other countries.

For starters, her plan still provides for the insurance industry having an extremely profitable place in the equation, and even benefits them by requiring all Americans to buy health insurance.

Also, in Canadian style healthcare, the government pays to operate healthcare via tax money. Not ordering citizens to funnel their money into the insurance industry where as like as not they'll still be denied care most of the time, or funneling government money into for-profit healthcare operations where they can again bilk the taxpayers.

[CatnHat]

32. Wrong again

Hillary's plan calls for TAX CREDITS given to all American families and also give TAX CREDITS to small businesses and help create good jobs with HEALTH BENEFITS, that will stay in the US.

There will be no discrimiation. The insurance compaines cannot deny coverage if you have a pre-exising condition.

Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They WILL have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

[TheWraith]

33. Translation, you get a small break to offset the huge money you're required to pour into insurance.

Not being able to deny coverage, even if that made it through, would just mean that they'd raise their prices high enough for sick people that they couldn't afford it.

[TheWraith]

27. True, true, and true. It's an incredibly stupid position.

Forcing people to buy in to the insurance system whether they like it or not, and charging them anyway if they refuse? That's about as stupid a campaign platform as I've ever seen, and it would NEVER, NEVER get past Congress. Even the Dems wouldn't line up behind it.

[formercia]

29. Wealthy people don't make wages

It's just another code word for those who are slaves to the economic system.

Ask the people in Mass how they like Die Mittenfuhrer's version, now in effect.