Low turnout at Cleveland Obama rally

[OzarkDem]

As I drove downtown to Cleveland for another event last night I was surprised. I expected traffic gridlock for such a huge event. To my surprise, there was no traffic at all. I drove by the convention center and saw a smattering of people near the convention center, a car advertising "Clean Coal" and a bus for the Boilermakers Union.

What happened? Where were the huge crowds? Sorry folks, but I think we're being bamboozled on the Obama phenomenon. It appears to be a flash in the pan.

Clinton definitely needs to stay in the race.

Cleveland Plain Dealer puts the crowd at 6,000 - very small for the biggest bastion of Democratic voters in Ohio. I was expecting to see him draw 15,000 to 17,000. What happened?

http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2008/02/obama_in_cleveland.html

[MadBadger]

1. WRONG...Looks like a Packed Crowd to me.

[Vinca]

2. But, but, but . . . it's a SMALL stadium.

:rofl:

[greguganus]

87. Cleveland Don't Count!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[OzarkDem]

98. Why do Obama supporters hate Ohio?

They're not scoring many points with Dems here.

[scheming daemons]

106. Because it's the home of Diebold? That's one good reason all Democrats should hate Ohio....

...

[UALRBSofL]

137. Hey scheming daemons Watch out what you say

I helped pick out diebold here in my town. A small group of us went to Canton, Ohio and toured the plant and chose them. Regardless of the fact Diebold is broken, be nice. :) :) :)

[Jawja]

223. Precisely.

Can Democrats expect a fair election in Ohio? Don't know. We didn't get one in 2004. Has Ohio done anything to remedy what happened with this vote rigging and the non-transparency that occurred with tabulating the count? :shrug:

Democrats need to count on winning without Florida and Ohio.

Just my two cents.

on edit: Georgia votes on those same Diebold machines with no paper trail. Saxby Chambliss' defeat of Max Cleland was a BIG SURPRISE. So I am not confident that my State really delivers a fair election. Perhaps we will know in November if Obama is the candidate.

[galadrium]

163. Watch the polls...

Hillary was up 20 points a few weeks ago, now 7. Seems like he's scoring with someone.

[MzShellG]

251. I remember the Ohio debacle in 2004 with Bush and Kerry....

What was that all about?

[JackORoses]

278. it's hilarious that you base crowd size on your drive-by estimation

I'll really be glad when the Hillarite movement is a thing of the past, and we can move on to the future business of this Nation.

These Last Throes are disgraceful and embarrassing.

[TheDonkey]

324. Sorry to break this to you hun but that will be Hillary's new meme after she loses the Buckeye state

a new addition to all the states that "do not count" in Hillary's America.

[calimary]

183. Any city with the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame Museum and Sushi Rock

cannot go uncounted.

Best sushi I've ever had - anywhere.

[scheming daemons]

220. Until the R&R hall of fame acknowledges the band Rush, they should be boycotted...

;-)

[mythyc]

310. BEST POST OF THE DAY AWARD....

thank you, I love it!

[babylonsister]

3. Darn! Too bad no one showed up.

:eyes:

[Honeycombe8]

6. Oh...I guess the weather was bad. LOL LOL LOL LOL! nt

[OzarkDem]

79. No, weather was fine

Clear, no snow or rain.

[Moh96]

177. apparently you didn't get the sarcasm

[angie_love]

9. Oh my its like a ghost town in that arena.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MadBadger]

11. Well, it doesnt hold half that much, and its the Cleveland Convention Center.

[OzarkDem]

31. Less than 2,000 in that photo

the hall doesn't even hold 20,000.

[MadBadger]

38. Can I try what you're smoking?

I mean even with your hallucinations, you can tell there are a lot more than 2,000 people in that photo alone.

[babylonsister]

61. Try 6,000 to 6,800 depending on where you're talking about...

An estimated 6,000 people were in the main room in Akron and others were in an overflow room. The crowd in Cleveland was about 6,800.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/02/24/ddn022408obama.html

[OzarkDem]

70. Where are the crowds of 10 or 20,000?

This was a Saturday night in the biggest Dem stronghold in Ohio. 6,000 is not a lot.

[rodeodance]

101. they forgot to order the water bottles so wanted to keep the crowd down.

[babylonsister]

103. See post #31; why are you changing the topic? nt

[rodeodance]

107. keep you on your toes early in the am

[earthlover]

114. They were at Hillary rally? NOT! She rarely gets more than 5000 so what's the point?

[ksquire]

198. not for Barack, but would be damn near historic for hillary though.

[Yael]

236. Does the term "overflow room" not mean anything to you?

Wow.

[Window]

10. Busted!

LOL!




Peace:thumbsup:

[OzarkDem]

25. Not busted, look at the photo

That's less than 2,000 people there. Public hall is a small venue. There was virtually no traffic outside, the hairdresser's convention draws a bigger crowd than that.

[Buzz Clik]

146. Weak.

[catgirl]

149. How petty

[jmg257]

217. wrong place delete

[OzarkDem]

14. No, its not a big hall and there aren't many people in that photo

First, it was advertised as being at the Convention Center across the street, a much bigger venue. It appears they moved it to Public Hall, a small, old facility that is hardly used.

Someone took that photo with a fisheye lens, to make it appear like a large hall. Its not and no there weren't many people there. Look closer, its not even full. You're looking at maybe a couple thousand people in this photo, tops. Like Obama's campaign, its a carefully crafted illusion.

I was downtown, where Kerry Edwards packed in 70,000 people in 06. Last night it was quiet, not many people.

Sorry, folks he'd not doing well here compared to other campaigns.

[MadBadger]

17. The Spinmeister is at careful work here. I looked close, and the place is packed.

[OzarkDem]

28. Look closer, its not even full - look in the balcony

Like Obama's campaign its a carefully crafted illusion.

[angie_love]

21. LOLOLOL!!!!

:rofl: :spank:

[cali]

75. Prove it.

I wouldn't take your word if you told me the sky was blue or the sun rose in the east. Link to where it was originally scheduled for another venue.

[mckeown1128]

201. You can't compare a primary rally's size to a

GE rally's size. Obama has had 4-5Xs the crowds that Hillary has had. McCain only get's a couple hundred. You are hard a work spewing this nonsense.

[me b zola]

312. KerryEdwards? As in the Democratic ticket for the general election?

General elections always pack much larger crowds...at least until this year. But I suspect that you know that.

Someone on the McLaughlin show last night said that no candidate has ever drawn as large of crowds for a primary rally as Obama has been drawing. He even remarked how the Obama crowds resemble more of a crowd for the general elections.




:puffpiece:

[Recursion]

345. Let me guess: you worked for the Park Service to count the million man march, too? n/t

[workinclasszero]

37. Wow

what a small crowd!:rofl:

Hillary said to stop all the big rallies, you little people!

GO Hope-mongers!!:toast:

[rodeodance]

78. What was the capacity?

[mmonk]

167. Yep, real tiny.

It should at least be allowed for them to be stacked on each other and no fire codes in force.

[jakefrep]

195. Nobody goes to Obama rallies anymore....

they're too crowded. (to paraphrase Yogi Berra)

[senseandsensibility]

248. LOL

:rofl:

[texas_indy]

230. Naw, thats been edited, don't ya know. There were only 100 folk there!! LOL (nt)

[Tellurian]

258. Small venue...unexpected small crowd... SAD.. he thought he was going places, I guess..

[TheDonkey]

323. now that's some flash in the PAN! Go Obama!

[BringBigDogBack]

336. Stallpwned.

What a joke.

[Honeycombe8]

4. It's Hill who touts "clean coal" (pretending there IS such a thing). nt

[Petrushka]

343. "...pretending...."? And . . . what was coalbama touting at the end of January when . . .

. . . the U.S. Dept. of Energy pulled out of that $1.8 billion "clean coal" demonstration project in Mattoon, Illinois?

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/1/30/133510/673

:spank:

[scheming daemons]

5. OzarkDem: "Nobody goes to Obama events anymore, they're too crowded"

....

Yogi Berra would be proud.

[OzarkDem]

15. Looks like they had plenty of room last night. n/t

[scheming daemons]

22. Not an empty seat in the house... floor completely packed also....

....nice try, though...

[MadBadger]

30. OP think 1-2,000 people showed up. The picture alone shows more than that.

I read somewhere around 7,000 people showed up.

[OzarkDem]

36. Floor full balcony half empty

Check the shadows at the top, those are empty seats.

Its also the smallest venue in town. It was moved from the Convention Center to Public Hall to make it appear like more people were there.

Sorry guys, like Obama its an illusion.

[Tarheel_Dem]

83. can you provide a link/source for your assertion that the rally

was moved to a smaller venue? It's apparent from other posters that you have a tendency to exaggerate, so I'd like proof that Obama's rally was moved.

Your o.p. has been refuted by actual news reports, but yet you persist in lying.

[OzarkDem]

94. TV stations advertised it for Convention Center

It was at Public Hall, smaller venue.

[Tarheel_Dem]

110. that's still not "PROOF"...that's your spin....

I asked for a link or a verifiable source since you made that wild accusation, you should be able to back it up with a verifiable source....no?

It's hard to take you seriously now that I know you distort facts. Upthread you swore that there was less than a couple of thousand folks in the hall, and when confronted with the fact that there were a whole 5,000 more than that, you still insist that you were right. So with all due respect, I'll take anything you say in the future with a grain of salt.

I'd still like to know where I can verify that the event was moved to a smaller venue.

[OzarkDem]

111. Look em up

Google is your friend.

[Tarheel_Dem]

117. you do it...you made the allegation! you should provide backup..

and let's not change subjects. You've already been outed as a liar, I just wish you could back up your statements with TRUTH? Is that too much to ask?

[OzarkDem]

123. You're going to have to back that up with some proof

Everything stated in this post is true, whether you like it or not. No proof? Kiss off.

[Tarheel_Dem]

161. Lies...........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4740478&mesg_id=4740532

[cali]

124. Surprise, surprise. The poster

is pulling more shit out of thin air. Shocking ain't it? I didn't find anything when I googled it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

138. As Stephanie Miller & the Mooks would say.....

"he's a lying sack of crap". Still hasn't provided any evidence for his assertions, and now he's challenging me to prove he's a liar. He's done nothing but lie throughout this whole wreck of a thread. I'd be ashamed to have this on the Greatest, but there it is. :rofl:

[Lerkfish]

119. um, is that all you got at this point? arguing about crowd numbers?

LOL

[OzarkDem]

125. Buh bye Obama

He's not going to win Ohio.

[cali]

135. oh, don't count your little chickies yet

and hilly is over. Educate yourself. she's done even if she manages to scratch out Ohio.

[Lerkfish]

168. well, being an ohioan, I should point out that the way the delegates are set up

one can technically "win" by a slim margin in number of districts and still have fewer delegates.
and the way its looking right now, Obama is set to garner the delegate-rich districts
so even a so-called "win" can still sink her.

[Lerkfish]

169. absolute statements can come back to haunt you.

I"m just saying

[Prefer]

180. Pathetic

Your brains are an illusion

[OhioBlue]

222. You're spinning out of control!

It wasn't moved. It was advertised at Public Hall all along.

Cleveland Convention Center
Public Auditorium
500 Lakeside Ave
Cleveland, OH
Doors open: 7:00 PM
Program begins 8:30 PM

This is the e-mail I got earlier in the week.

Public Auditorium = Public Hall

He held a rally in Akron then Cleveland - so last night he drew 12k-13k from NE Ohio.

[City Lights]

319. While you were outside spying, I was inside and call BS on your "half-empty"

claim in regards to the balcony.

When we arrived at 5:30 the line was already around the building and down the street. The doors weren't supposed to open until 7:00, but they opened about 45-60 minutes early. Everyone had to go through metal detectors, so maybe they opened the doors early when they saw how many people were outside.

I was standing on the floor about 20 feet from the stage. The first balcony was completely full. The second balcony was almost full. The only sections with some seats available were those on the same side of the arena as the stage from where Obama spoke, but on the far end. Since I was at floor level, I had no idea how large the floor crowd was until I saw the picture posted in one of the posts above. It appears to have been taken from the main stage, which is where the non-filming media crews were set up.

However, being on the floor gave me a perfect view of everything above me. And the balcony was most certainely not "half-empty."

Nice try though. :rofl:

edited for clarity

[Window]

7. Maybe because Hillary told Obama to stop with the big rallies.

LOL!

[SKKY]

8. Exactly! Obama only got people to this rally because he held it before a Cavaliers game!

:eyes: I'll give you this, you guys sure are persistent.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CarbonDate]

19. See, this one was lacking in humor.

It just seemed angry. I mean, you must know that you're completely full of shit and are being ironic, but you don't come across that way. You just come across as delusional.

You can do better at the irony. I have faith in you.

[cali]

24. *snicker*

another Baghdad Bobette. You guys have got to get better at this. Such a shame you're running out of time, and that voters are running Hillary out of town. I love that Hilly's fucking her own candidacy. It's fun to watch. Say bye bye Hilly.

[workinclasszero]

49. No one showed up for Obama's rally, no one likes him, really

No more big rallies for you Mr Obama!!

[hisownpetard]

184. Baghdad Bob looks like he's pressing his hands against a wall of glass.

Is he the Marcelle Marceau of Iraq?

[CarbonDate]

13. Thanks for the laugh.

I almost believed you. Credit where credit is due: that was pretty funny.

[OzarkDem]

20. Sorry guys, I drove by, small crowd

look closely at the photo, there's maybe 1,500 to 2,000 people there, tops.

[scheming daemons]

26. There's more than twice than that on the floor alone.....

...you're stoned, or you're VERY bad at those games where you guess how many jelly beans are in the jar.

[OzarkDem]

39. Look again

Most of the crowd in front is news media. They don't count.

Where's the 10,000 - 17,000 people? Thats not it.

[scheming daemons]

41. News media? Holy SHIT! Cleveland sure has a lot of news media!

I wonder who's got the endorsement of the majority of Cleveland's 1,537 newspapers?

:eyes:

[mckeown1128]

206. Obama holds several rallies a day....

and you are saying he is doomed because he has a rally that doesn't have 10,000-17,000 people. Give me a break. when was the last time Hillary had a crowd that size.

[OzarkDem]

208. On a Saturday night in the biggest Dem stronghold in Ohio

[mckeown1128]

212. Your not taking into account that he is holding multiple...

campaign events during the same week in Ohio. Doesn't matter anyway he is still pulling in more people than Hillary. She wishes that 7,000 people would be considered a mall crowd for her.

[City Lights]

335. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Most of the crowd in front is news media. They don't count.

I was in front of the stage on the floor, standing right next to a Secret Service agent.

There is a main stage inside the arena that was reserved for the print media. It had long tables set up and was empty until just before the event started.

The media that was filming the event was on a small, elevated platform directly across the the platform set up for Obama. At most, there were 5 cameras on that platform.

Your claim is false. Period. You have zero credibility, IMHO. :thumbsdown:

[CarbonDate]

34. See Rene, this is what I'm talking about.

Simple message, stick to it, very earnest. Don't confuse everything by sticking all of your spin in one post. One thing at a time, and just be *very sincere*. It works much better this way.

[OzarkDem]

51. Simple messages - spin, exaggerate

Obama campaign is all hype.

[Lerkfish]

186. well, that hype has kicked your candidate's hype in the last 11 straight contests

:shrug:

[OzarkDem]

199. Hype doesn't lead the country

Hype is nothing. It doesn't get us out of Iraq, bring jobs to the jobless, improve the economy or get health care for everyone.

Hype is baloney.

[Lerkfish]

221. so hillary is going to get us out of Iraq?

RIIIIIIIGht

[CoffeeCat]

193. So what?

You are like an attack dog with a chew toy. Why do you hold onto this
one rally so much?

If he had one rally that didn't have a major-blowout attendance, so frickin what?

One rally is not a campaign. It's one campaign event.

Are you suggesting that Obama is now somehow defined by this one rally?

So, when we post about large-attendance Obama rallies that happen within the next day or so--will
you define him solely by those rallies?

This constant harping about the significance of one rally is strange.

[PassingFair]

242. It must have gotten tired of the even LAMER Obama is more DLC than Hillary...

threads they like to post.

:crazy:

[Kahuna]

328. How in the hell can you see the size of the crowd INSIDE, by

driving by?

:banghead:

[matcom]

16. LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL!!1

the "smattering" of people you saw were smokers taking a break. sad you drove by 20 minutes after the thing started. see everyone was INSIDE already.

idiot.

[cali]

18. LOL! Our own Baghdad Bob is at it again

Don't you get embarassed just making shit up and posting it, only to immediately have it refuted? Add to that that people laugh at the nonsense you post.

You never stop with the false statements and the wishful thinking. Too, too bad.

[VolcanoJen]

272. "Baghdad Ozark"

If it weren't so hysterical, it would be sadder.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

338. LOL!

[CarbonDate]

23. Oh, hell... K&R.

Obama supporters, please recommend this one. It's too good to let it sink.

[angie_love]

27. DONE and DONE

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[OzarkDem]

32. I'm shocked, you folks are really delusional

Please do kick so people can look at that photo and see how few people were there.

[angie_love]

33. me thinks you need some glasses.

[CarbonDate]

42. I bow in awe of you.

You're really good at this. Totally unflappable.

However, pictures speak louder than anecdotes. Fact of life.

[cali]

47. no, dear. you're the one that's out of touch

It's been documented over and over again that Obama attracts huge crowds. Don't play Baghdad Bobette. It's sooo lame.

[NYCGirl]

46. Just gave it recommendation #5. It's too good not to!

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

52. Please do, thanks

People are finally learning - Obama is all hype. His support in Ohio is not good.

[alteredstate]

62. The mayor of Cleveland supports him!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/02/clevelands-mayo.html

[OzarkDem]

67. The mayor of Cleveland is very unpopular

He's the lackey of the billionaire Cleveland GOP folks. He rarely appears in public.

OTOH, Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones is backing Clinton.

[scheming daemons]

77. "Nobody voted for him. He's too unpopular."

...

[OzarkDem]

81. You'll find out

[cali]

104. yeah, we'll find out that Hilly ran an historically piss poor campaign

oh, wait. we already know that. And your prognostications haven't been worth shit. You've been wrong every single time.

[NYCGirl]

178. You're too funny. The crowd in that arena are all special effects!

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

189. Sorry, this wasn't a big rally

Accept it, Obama is not doing well here.

[NYCGirl]

196. Stop. You're killing me!

:rofl:

[VolcanoJen]

275. It's a big state.

Even if I give your flawed drive-by report any credence, I'd still have to remind you that we live in a huge state. Even if the Cleveland crowd was relatively small given your drive-through reporting, it was still bigger than any of Hillary's events in the state.

How about road-tripping down to Dayton and Cincinnati tomorrow? The Shoemaker Center followed by the Nutter Center. If you want to crash at my place, I'm happy to welcome you, and help you open your eyes to the fact that Obama is for real in my state. :-)

[Debi]

29. K & R!

Looks like Obama can't draw a crowd like he used to :rofl:

[Algorem]

35. Mayor Johnson was there.

Pain Dealer said over 3,000,then says more than 6,000 on front page this morning.



Barack Obama appears at Cleveland Public Hall

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/02/janet_okobendemocratic_hopeful.html

Posted by Janet Okoben February 23, 2008 21:07PM
Categories: Breaking News
Janet OkobenDemocratic hopeful Sen. Barack Obama addresses more than 3,000 people at Cleveland Public Hall tonight.

A lively, rock-star like atmosphere greeted Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama, who spoke at Cleveland Public Hall starting at 9 tonight.

More than 3,000 people attended the rally.

He was introduced by a member of the Cleveland schools. He made a gaffe after the introduction. He referred to Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson as Frank Johnson.



Obama in Ohio responds to Hillary's charges

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/02/_democratic_presidential_candi.html

Obama in Cleveland

http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2008/02/obama_in_cleveland.html




rticle published Saturday, February 23, 2008
Toledo crowd: Clinton worth the extra wait
Plane de-icing delays arrival

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080223/NEWS09/802230455/-1/NEWS
Photo

By JOE VARDON
BLADE STAFF WRITER

They waited outside in the cold and inside in anticipation, but they said Hillary Clinton was worth the wait.

An estimated crowd of more than 3,000 braved the winter elements - some standing outside for more than two hours - to hear the Democratic presidential hopeful deliver her message in person...

Article published Saturday, February 23, 2008

Clinton rallies late night Toledo crowd
We've got to work around clock to reclaim U.S., she says

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080223/NEWS09/802230456/-1/NEWS
Photo

...More than 3,000 people packed the gym, and several hundred more were in overflow space.

Mr. Obama is scheduled to speak tomorrow at the University of Toledo, which holds nearly 9,000 people...

[OzarkDem]

40. Cleveland doesn't have a mayor Johnson

and you know as well as I do, Mayor Jackson is unpopular. He's owned by the Millers and Ratners. The city was a mess last night, full of potholes. Yuck.

[Algorem]

57. Ahh, ya doesn't has to call me Johnson! You can call me Ray,or

you can call me Jay, or you can call me Johnny or you can call me Sonny, or you can call me RayJay, or you can call me RJ... but ya doesn't hafta call me Johnson


http://www.tvparty.com.nyud.net:8080/vgifs14/saluga.jpg

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0759178/bio




or ya can call him Frank Jackson

or a corrupt politician , like I do

[yourguide]

65. I would much rather make the mistake of saying

Jackson than have the huge mistake of having Penn as my strategist...

[OzarkDem]

73. What is with the Penn obsession?

That's one I don't get at all. At least Clinton's campaign manager likes women voters. Can't say the same for Obamas. His campaign is full of "iron my shirt" political hacks.

[cali]

80. LOL! more made up stuff. Penn is NOT her campaign manager

and not only do you know nothing about Hilly's campaign, you know nothing about Obama's. This is fun. I love watching this kind of nonsense. Please don't stop digging that hole.

[yourguide]

134. Seeing as how you havent been paying attention...

Mark Penn is the reason the coronation was canceled. This was Hill's to lose and she did just that.

[OzarkDem]

185. Do Clinton supporters obsess over Obama's staff?

I don't see it and I find it bizarre that Obama supporters obsess over Clinton's staff. Can't you folks discuss issues?

[yourguide]

234. Obama supporters dont "obsess" over clinton's staff

We have pointed out that this was HRCs race to lose. Mark Penn sunk her.

You might want to check out Frank Rich's op ed in the NY times today talking about what a disaster her campaign has been.

But ok, let's talk issues. Why was HRC the LAST democrat to admit she made a mistake in voting us into the iraq war?

[Hawkeye-X]

330. So you are *IMPLYING* that you're backing Hillary because you're a woman

and so is she?

That HAS to be the most pathetic reason I have EVER heard.

Sorry, Oz...


Hawkeye-X

[eridani]

337. He likes Blackwater, unionbusting and the Chinese poison toy people too n/t

[Cal Carpenter]

158. I'm sure a better mayor

would be able to do something to stop those pesky freeze/thaw cycles!

:sarcasm:

[OzarkDem]

43. What happened to the crowd of 10,000?

I was expecting traffic jams. It was quiet.

[MadBadger]

44. The place holds 7,000, and 7,000 people were there.

[OzarkDem]

50. Just checked Cleveland.com - it says 6,000

Sorry, but that's not a big political rally for the Cleveland area. I'm quite surprised. I was expecting gridlock and a crowd of 10 -17,000 per previous reports.

Like I said, the hairdresser's convention draws more than 10,000.

[scheming daemons]

55. LOL.... 7000 packed to the rafters on a cold SATURDAY night... compared to...

...how many people at Clinton rallies in Ohio?


And it WAS 7000, not 6000. There are 6000 seats in the hall, but with the SRO floor crowd, it was well over 7000.

[OzarkDem]

74. Weather was fine, clear, no snow

Not that cold, either, for Cleveland.

[MadBadger]

56. See my post below.

[rodeodance]

84. yup--looks like the SWOON factor de-swooned here.

[yourguide]

130. You are a moron...

Hillary can barely pull 1500 and you are going to start crying low turnout for 6000?

Yeah THAT'S empty all right...just like your head.

[scheming daemons]

45. Um... you're not going to have traffic jams WHILE THE EVENT IS GOING ON....

they're all there already.


During a Steelers game, with 65,000 screaming maniacs in the stands, I can drive by Heinz Field and I'm the only car on the road.


You really ARE Hillary's "Baghdad Bob".

[OzarkDem]

54. It was about half an hour before the event.

Quiet. No traffic.

[cali]

69. Still assiduously ignoring reality I see

The crowd estimate was 6,800. How'd your dear little hilly do yesterday? Care to compare? Of course you don't.

[cali]

72. why would anyone believe you?

Seriously. He had an event that filled the venue, and you're insisting that only a few people showed up. You look ridiculous when you make false assertions.

[OzarkDem]

108. Link for you

This is a small event by Cleveland standards.

http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2008/02/obama_in_cleveland.html

[yourguide]

142. Ummmm

Did you read the article?

Direct quote:

Obama, who recent polls show has significantly eroded Hillary Clinton's lead in Ohio, led large rallies in Akron and Cleveland Saturday. But the race for Ohio was dominated by an argument over each other's health care insurance plans.


I believe that says large and not small.

[City Lights]

326. Quiet and no traffic a half-hour before the event? Stop the presses!

OMG, you poor thing.

I was in line at 5:30, three hours before it started and the line was already around the building and down the street. If you were trolling outside the venue thirty minutes before the event started, you missed the crowd, sweetie. We were inside by then. :rofl:

You're grasping at straws if you're trying to use the "no traffic jam 30 minutes before it started" argument.

Maybe you can stroll into a Hillary event 30 minutes before start time, but that doesn't work for Obama's events. :rofl:

[kikiek]

48. From the article posted it appears you are right. Small venue and crowd.

[SoxFan]

226. Delusional much?

"Obama, who recent polls show has significantly eroded Hillary Clinton's lead in Ohio, led large rallies in Akron and Cleveland Saturday"

[MadBadger]

53. Obama's Crowd Estimated at 6,800.

After speaking in Akron, Obama attended a rally last night at the Cleveland Convention Center, where a crowd estimated at 6,800 spontaneously started chanting, “We want change.”

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/02/23/obama24.html

[OzarkDem]

59. Cleveland Plain Dealer said 6,000

quibble over 800 people if you wish. For a town that normally draws 30,000 or more for a big political rally, this is small potatoes.

[MadBadger]

68. Tell, me when did they draw 30,000 for a Primary?

[Tarheel_Dem]

128. tell me, did hillary draw 30,000?

did she draw 10,000 or 5,000...500? Tell us about your candidate, you seem obsessed with Obama's drawing power, I really am curious about Hillary's events.

[chascarrillo]

173. She's had it up to here with big rallies,so no. nt

[Perky]

171. And you said above that it was 2K , So much for that great Arkansas education system.

Wonder who is to blame for that?

[OzarkDem]

187. Why do Obama supporters always resort to personal attacks on fellow DU'ers?

do you really think that's going to get support for your candidate?

Its quite shameful.

[Hawkeye-X]

331. No personal attacks.

You're giving an anecdotal which is completely inaccurate, and we're merely pointing the facts that you continue to ignore, Oz...

In fact, if you read upthread, there was a DU'er that has personally attended the rally and has confirmed what the Plain Dealer has said, truthfully.

Hawkeye-X

[WolverineDG]

211. Still smartin' over Hillary's 200-300 crowd in Hidalgo County?

She couldn't fill a 5000+ arena in her supposed stronghold of Hidalgo County, while Obama attracts thousands at a rally at UTPA (my alma mater) a few days later, with one of HER local supporters sitting on the stage behind him. Ouch.

dg

[gerrilea]

58. I didn't see any of these huge events in New York either

Everyone here in Buffalo, keeps scratching our collective heads wondering the same thing about this "phenomenon"...we haven't seen it...

[OzarkDem]

63. Yeah, we're being fed a lot of bs here

Do we need four more years of this crap? Jeez, it will be just like having Bush in the WH again.

[angie_love]

76. Wow, why do you have to go there? How dare you compare him to Bush?

Read up on his liberal voting record, you might learn a thing or 2.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

[OzarkDem]

82. Because he is very much like Bush in personality

and his obsession with deceiving people.

[MadBadger]

86. "His obsession with Deceiving People"

you're really something.

[OzarkDem]

90. Yes, I'm honest

His lies about health care reform did it for me. The man has no conscience. He's willing to kill any chance for health care reform just to score points.

He has no conscience.

[gerrilea]

116. Ditto for me, he didn't know about his own plan enough to make me understand it

I understood this, that if you are a parent under Obama's plan, and you don't pay for health insurance for your children, you get fined...

[boston bean]

155. Those parents who don't have health insurance for their children are NOT Responsible parents in O's

opinion.

That went over like a lead balloon in the debate.

Who's gonna buy health insurance if the parent gets sick. His plan is ridiculous. a scratch on the surface. It's a sham to try to get people to believe he is for universal health care, which he is obviously does not support.

[OzarkDem]

190. Obama also wants us to pay for all the people who refuse to buy insurance

Estimated cost is $900 per person per year to pay for all those who can afford health insurance but refuse to buy it.

He also has no cap on private insurance premiums. His plan is just another version of corporate welfare for insurance companies.

[alteredstate]

164. Read and learn:

Part 1: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange....

Part 2: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4726142

Part 3: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4726324

[gerrilea]

172. I heard what he said during the debate

I don't want to read someone elses words...I did hear his though...there will be fines for parents who don't pay for their children health insurance...

What about all the Illegals, are they supposed to apply for Medicaid or Health insurance for their children and then get deported for it?


How screwy...a system...can't afford insurance but you must buy it for your children or go to jail????

[alteredstate]

213. I guess you didn't bother to click on the link.

[knowledgeispwr]

243. No use arguing with willful ignorance.

You can spoon-feed people information and specifics and they continue to spout the same BS about Obama being "all hype" or "an empty suit." Disagree with him all you want, but saying that he has no ideas or no policy is complete bunk.

Notice that some go back and forth between "he has no ideas" and "his ideas are terrible" clearly missing the contradiction in their words.

[gerrilea]

277. As I said, I won't read someone else's words, I heard Obama myself

[eridani]

339. Neither candidate supports single payer

There are few substantive differences between the two, which may account for the triviality of attacks by supporters on their candidate's opponent.

[angie_love]

88. did you read the link or do you want to spout more bullshit?

http://www.speakout.com/VoteMatch/quiz.asp?quiz=SenateIL

Here is a votematch quiz, I bet your answers line up with Obama's democratic ideals.

[cali]

96. oh, c'mon. you know the answer to your question.

or you should. You can't reason with someone spouting this nonsense.

[angie_love]

99. I know, I still have faith in ppl though, thats my bad.

[OzarkDem]

102. You must be kidding

Do you decide which candidate to support by taking an online quiz? Try going to web sites and reading position statements, ok?

[angie_love]

105. UM NO, I actually read, and I was trying to help you out but you know what Fuck you.

I'm done trying to reason with idiots.

[cali]

109. please. you really, really shouldn't be telling anyone else

that they must be kidding. Not when you take your cues straight from Baghdad Bob. And you clearly haven't read Obama's website, because you know nothing about his stance on the issues.

[gerrilea]

118. Scary isn't it, but the masses won't listen

Don't forget, the masses demanded that Christ be killed, they don't know any better

[Mooney]

166. Christ didn't exist n/t

[gerrilea]

175. So...the Obama told you this, did he?

:woohoo:

[Mooney]

182. No, Obama's mother told me.

You remember his mother, the white ATHEIST. She's the one who made me adopt this pernicious view.

Obama, on the other hand, tried to get me to become a secret Muslim double agent.

[peacebaby3]

233. Wow. Equating a Democratic candidate's supporters to the people that demanded Christ be killed.

Disgusting!

Why don't you support your own candidate? Is your candidate not good enough? You come into a thread that an obviously biased person has started to trash another candidate and then say vile shit like this. The person you are supporting has even been proven completely wrong.

I usually try to stay out of this juvenile back and forth, but you went over the line with this post.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you got carried away while arguing, but you should definitely apologize for such a comment.

[gerrilea]

274. NO, the masses, you are easily lead and I was not comparing

the supporters of Obama in any other light than that...guess you didn't understand that.

[Laurab]

287. That's bullshit.

And I think you meant "easily LED". As an Obama supporter, I am tired of being told that I am a "cult" member, "easily led", "drinking koolaid", etc. As I told you before, we are neighbors. You do not speak for all of "Buffalo" or "New York" when you post.

I understand, as I said, your personal support for Hillary, because she helped your family - that's her job, by the way. I'm sure Obama has helped his constituents, as well, because they sure seem to like him.

As my senator, Hillary has done NOTHING that has impressed me at all. She's an average senator, I'd say.

I am not easily led, I research, I look at voting records, and I look at who could win the GE. I decided long ago, before Obama became a "phenomonem" that if it came down to HRC and him, he would be the guy.

It is just WRONG to accuse Obama supporters of not being bright enough to think for themselves, and I find it offensive. Consider the possibility that some people might just be as smart as you, or even smarter, and have made an educated choice. In fact, consider that that's the probability. I want a person who is able to win in the GE, and who just might be able to get some things done when they get to the Presidency. That person is not Hillary.

Everyone who doesn't agree with you is not stupid - you should really stop insulting us all.

[gerrilea]

293. The behaviors demonstrated are the same, period

When did I say you were stupid...sorry if I did that, I don't ever recall saying that about anyone specificially here?

And my educated choice tells me that the masses are being led to their slaughter, like sheep, is this correlation more acceptable...?

I don't recall you telling me we were neighbors though...HI!:hi:

You contradict yourself as to "I am not easily led, I research, I look at voting records..." but you decided "long ago", not to vote for hillary...

I don't believe for one moment that Obama will win the GE, unfortunately you do...we agree to disagree...

[Laurab]

295. It's not a contradiction. I know how much she is hated by

the RW, for one thing. I don't want 4 more years of fighting to get things done - I want someone the public generally LIKES. I read Obama's first book maybe 8 months ago, was impressed, then read his second. I also liked John Edwards and Joe Biden. I've been following Hillary for years - she's been voting for years, she's been "leading" - or not, for years.

"the masses are being led to their slaughter, like sheep, is this correlation more acceptable...?"
No, it isn't.

You are calling people who support Obama stupid, just using different words. It's not acceptable.

I believe you will be proven wrong when Obama wins the GE, but I have no more need to converse with you about it. Sometimes, it's just not worth it.

[gerrilea]

296. I will now put you on ignore! I never called you stupid, must be insecurities on your part

[peacebaby3]

291. Yep, you compared us to "the masses" that were easily lead (sic) to demand Christ be killed.

Maybe an Obama supporter should say something like, Clinton supporters are like "the masses" that accepted and ran the death camps in Germany because they are easily manipulated into believing that they are the superior people and have the superior candidate in this campaign. How would you like that? It would be as stupid and offensive as your comment. You should apologize.

You should also get your story straight. On one thread your candidate's supporters claim that Obama is being treated like the Messiah by his supporters and now on this thread you call his supporters easily lead (sic) like "the masses" that demanded Christ's execution. So I guess we would have to demand he be killed and I haven't seen any of his supporters say that.

[gerrilea]

292. I will not, I've explained myself twice, you don't want to hear

I have no control over others here or what they say, I'm only responsible for my actions and words...should I apologize because you don't understand?

[peacebaby3]

341. You should apologize because it was a disgusting statement.

I understood exactly what you said as would any sensible person on this board. You merely confirmed it in your response.

Everyone makes mistakes in the heat of the moment and you made one and you certainly have the opportunity to redeem yourself with an apology for comparing Obama supporters to "the masses" that demanded Christ be killed. It's your choice if you want to show you are actually a decent person who made a mistake.

[Freedomofspeech]

228. My gawd, Obama has a brain....

bush doesn't. The only people deceived by bush are total idiots.

[cali]

85. bwahahaha

you're bitterness has completely taken over. You think Obama's like bush? LOL!!! Get used to Obama, dear. Hilly has flamed the fuck out. She's done. Over. Finished. Kaput. Cooked. Where's the fork?

[Arkana]

238. More bullshit accusations based on no facts.

And you Hillary folks wonder why we don't like her--or you.

[MadBadger]

66. You didnt see it because it was pointless to campaign in New York

I saw 20,000 in Madison, there were 20,000 in College Park, MD. 20,000 in Seattle, 18,000 in Hartford, 20,000 in St. Louis, 30,000 in Austin, 30,000 in South Carolina. 18,000 in Denver, 15,000 in IDAHO. Dont tell me he cant bring the big crowds.

[gerrilea]

176. So, I'm pointless and this is true why?

New York was pointless, because why? Ask most NYer's Hillary has helped all of us in someway...mostly for the better...might I add!!!

[tammywammy]

279. Pointless in the same way that Hillary didn't campaign in Illinois.

[Laurab]

276. As I told you in another thread.....

Obama didn't campaign here. It's Hillary's state, yet he STILL did well. Very well. We have to rely on states that are contested to actually see the "phenomenon".

"Everyone" in Buffalo is not "scratching" their collective heads. I understand why you, personally support HRC, she essentially did her job for you, and you're grateful. I don't care for her myself, and Obama got, I believe, at least 40% of the vote in NY, which is quite good since it's Hillary's state, and he held no rallys. Hillary did not do nearly as well in Obama's home state of Illinois.

[gerrilea]

281. sorry still sounds like alot of hype...media hype that is...stirring up

the masses to do their bidding...defeat hillary and destroy hillary

[Laurab]

288. Actually, Hillary has done that all on her own.

Well, with the help of her campaign manager, Mark Penn, and her husband, a man I used to respect very much.

Of course, if you are competing in a primary, the object is to defeat your opponent - you're faulting Obama for that? You feel Hillary should have been coronated as she expected to be? Damn that Obama for inspiring people enough to go out and vote for him, anyway.

[scheming daemons]

60. Holy crap! Obama only gets 7000 people for an event in an arena that holds 7000!

His campaign is DOOMED!


;-)

[rodeodance]

89. Just checked Cleveland.com - it says 6,000

Just checked Cleveland.com - it says 6,000

Sorry, but that's not a big political rally for the Cleveland area. I'm quite surprised. I was expecting gridlock and a crowd of 10 -17,000 per previous reports.

Like I said, the hairdresser's convention draws more than 10,000.

[MadBadger]

100. Talk about Plagiarzing off of Ozarkdem's Post. Couldnt even give Credit?

Cuz You sure dont live in Cleveland

Columbus Dispatch says 6,800

[OzarkDem]

204. You're getting way out of line

Stop with the insults or I'm going to alert the mods.

[progressive_realist]

231. Actually, Rodeodance's post is exactly the same as your post #50 upthread

One or both of you appears to be using someone else's words without attribution. Considering the current hubbub over plagiarism, I think this is perfectly legitimate to point out. If you post something in the first person, as though it was a personal observation, it either should be your observation or you should give credit to whomever's it was. That's not insulting -- it's asking for honesty.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4740478#4740600

Edit: To change "is" to "appears to be". I could be misinterpreting. I haven't had my morning :donut: yet.

[OzarkDem]

261. Put down the pipe

[Tarheel_Dem]

294. "honesty"? surely you jest

the i.p. still hasn't acknowledged that he either lied or exaggerated about the size of the crowd. He never answered the poster who smacked down his lie about the event being moved to a smaller venue either. You'll be waiting a long time for an "honest" response.

[Hawkeye-X]

332. Unfortunately, you've brought on this to yourself.... n/t

[NDambi]

92. and Hillary's supporters are dancing it up at his rallies...lol

and...it sounds like some of these Hillary supporters like Hillary herself has been gulping down Haterade...haha

ENOUGH WITH THE SPEECHES AND BIG RALLIES...ALREADY..DAMN!

[cali]

64. How many did your beloved Hilly get yesterday?

Did she manage more than a few hundred? And then there was her appearance at the BSOTU with a less than enthusiastic reception. Obama packs them in and wins state after state, and the Baghdad Bobette's still insist that it's not really happening. From lame to beyond lame.

[dcindian]

71. word is she got at least that many who boo'd her during

the debate the other night.

So I would say that this is a win for Hillary! :sarcasm:

[rodeodance]

97. word is you are spreading more lies. Trying to get count number up??

[babylonsister]

115. Around 600, but it was 'hastily planned'.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5565142.html

[OzarkDem]

121. A fundraiser in Houston

is not a rally in Ohio.

[NYCGirl]

179. Seems like everything the Clinton Camp does is "hastily planned." NT

[Hawkeye-X]

333. Righty-o. And I've already heard stories about getting 10K or more

on a Obama rally less than 24 hours after it is set up.

[godai]

91. Strange post...Nothing better than this misinformation? n/t

[greguganus]

93. 2,000 people is a car, a bus, and a smattering?

Hillary's Operation Small Crowd has begun!
Hillbots to your stations!

[OzarkDem]

112. No traffic jams

didn't live up to the hype.

[trumad]

127. Dude---seriously.... give it up

[OzarkDem]

139. Your guy is a flash in the pan

I've seen what's going on first hand and I am even less inclined to believe the Obama hype.

[trumad]

150. My guy? You mean Hillary..

I'm for Hill---but I'm also against idiotic thread like this.

[MadBadger]

152. zing?

[OzarkDem]

259. Sure

Sorry, dude, Obama is not doing well in Ohio. I realize that hurts some feelings, but its the brutal truth.

[Hawkeye-X]

334. hey trumad -

it's kind of sad to see what some of our longtime DU'ers have reduced themselves to?

Hawkeye-X

[democrank]

95. What a failed rally! 400,000,000 expected but

only a few thousand showed up.




I was against the Iraq War. That`s why I voted for it.

[cali]

113. If Obama wins Ohio, stand back

The OP's head will explode.

[scheming daemons]

147. Not explode.... implode.... that's what empty caverns do...

...

[Tarheel_Dem]

154. .........

:applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause:

[cali]

159. lol. I stand corrected

who could argue with that?

[workinclasszero]

120. Enough with the speeches and big rallies!!

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

[OzarkDem]

129. I think you're at the wrong political forum

Iron my shirt Republicans usually frequent another political web site. PM me and I'll send you the URL.

[workinclasszero]

145. Whats the matter?

Hillary's own words and image offend you?

Or is it because Hillary is desperately trying to squelch a popular, democratic movement of the people, is that what gets yer goat?

Join the club!:)

[yourguide]

153. What is with you Hillary supporters???

Another Hillary supporter who immediately starts calling obama supporters republicans.

ATTN: If I see another poster calling any other DEMOCRAT on this forum a republican I will start calling you friggin terrorists.

What is this crap? Either you're with Hillary or you're with the terrorists?

[workinclasszero]

160. They are just following Hillary's lead

Fling shit and see if any sticks!:rofl:

You know when they go as low as calling Obama supporters republicans, they ain't got nothing left!

[yourguide]

165. I told my boyfriend yesterday

that I was called a republican twice yesterday and a right winger once and he just started howling laughing.

In 2004 I voted for Kucinich in the primary...but apparently by supporting Barack I am a republican.

It's AMAZING!

[workinclasszero]

174. Yup, you E-VIL Republican!

You sure sound like a reich-wing knuckle dragger to me!:) :rofl:

GOBAMA!!! Hope-monger solidarity 4ever!!:grouphug:

[OzarkDem]

194. When they use GOP talking points and make sexist remarks, yes

That's not normally behavior Dems engage in. Think about it.

[workinclasszero]

210. We'll see who the republicans are when Obama sews up the

nomination and Hillbots refuse to support him.

Think about it.

[peacebaby3]

235. We're not just republicans now. We are also the people who demanded Jesus Christ be killed if

you look up-thread. I'm not sure of your spiritual beliefs, but to any of us that do have them, it's a very offensive comment.

[MadBadger]

122. This is such a dumb thread.

[cali]

126. Yeah, but it's spectacularly bad. And that gives it a certain

panache.

[MadBadger]

132. Anything is more entertaining than Fox and Friends which I'm watching

They had two people discussing if Michelle Obama and Barack's Pastor's Anti-American Comments represent Obama's personal feeling himself. I wanted to throw something at the TV, but I laughed instead and remembered, this is why we boycotted them in the first place.

[wellstone dem]

209. We are panache hogs and

that's why we are here.

[OzarkDem]

131. Yes it doesn't make Obama look like the second coming

Sorry folks, its time to wake up and smell the coffee. He's not doing well here in Ohio.

[trumad]

136. OK ---now your a parody.

[OzarkDem]

141. You can do better Trumad

ad hominem attacks aren't usually your style.

[trumad]

148. Yeah---but if it quacks like a duck----

come on man....you're really looking goofy with this....

[OzarkDem]

197. No, you guys are going off the deep end

I went downtown last night, left a half hour early expecting lots of traffic for the huge Obama rallies I keep hearing about and promoted on the news all day.

Imagine my surprise when there was no traffic. It was hyped, it didn't live up to the hype.

[Forkboy]

298. Yes they are...where have you been?

:evilgrin:

But trumad is right...you're becoming a parody of yourself at this point.

[MadBadger]

140. Than why did Obama cut a 21 point lead to 7 in 10 days?

[Tatiana]

133. K&R This is the sort of thing that you have to see (and read) to believe. n/t

[From The Left]

143. That's 3 Times the Size of Hillary's Cleveland Crowds

Not bad.

[Buzz Clik]

144. Take a drive on I-25 during a Bronco game. Or I-435 when the Chiefs are playing...

The highways are surprisingly empty during the game. I guess all those predictions of sellout games are inflated.

Oh -- but don't be there when the final gun sounds.

[yourguide]

157. Same here in NY

I have driven by yankee stadium during a few games while the roads were wide open.

[OzarkDem]

205. Read the post, son

It was half an hour before Obama's event began. Quiet, no traffic. No big crowds outside, as they usually are.

[JTFrog]

151. Fork. Hillary. Done.

That is all.

[NRaleighLiberal]

156. To think I will regret losing 5 min of my life reading this joke of a post/thread.

Ozark, you have mastered the Rovian style like a pro. How pathetic - even Hillary would reject you.

[trumad]

162. I think even the freepers would laugh at this one.

[OzarkDem]

203. Obama supporters winning new converts

Your guy didn't do very well here, so you attack someone for pointing it out? Nice, how Democratic of you.

[madrchsod]

170. what an entertaining post...

just think i missed watching part of a "above the law" while reading this.... stevie seagal marathon on tnt!

[Bongo Prophet]

181. Thank you for such an amusing parody post. It really helps to lighten the mood in here.

Here is an extra bit you may like, that shows what a liar Obama is:
He said he "ate hundreds of chicken dinners."

There is NO WAY that such a thin man can eat that much chicken!
JUST FACTS!!!

[metisnation]

188. Missed it?

must not be important...sorry cleveland

[sludge man]

191. The misinformation here is amazing!

I was not at the event, but I do know Public Hall. So for all you folks who are commenting but know nothing about the venue,let me educate you.

The Cleveland Convention Center consists of Public Hall, Music Hall, a Small Theater, and an underground Exhibition Hall. The Public Hall/Music Hall was built in the early 1920. Public Hall was the site for the 1924 and 1936 Republican Conventions. The event wasn't moved from the Convention Center to Public Hall because Public Hall IS part of the Convention Center. The event would not have been scheduled for the Exhibition Hall (which is separated from Public Hall by an access road) because there are no seats in the Exhibition Hall. It's used for trade shows.

The Public Hall shares a common stage with Music Hall (separated by a removable wall) and events have been held simultaneously in each venue. There have been events (rare) where the wall was removed and the Music Hall and Public Hall became a single venue.

Until 1975, the Public Hall was the main concert facility in Cleveland. The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Metropolitan Opera, etc. all used this facility. Cleveland State University also used this building for their games before they built their own building.

The capacity of Public Hall (with floor seating) is around 11,000, without floor seating it's around 7,000. Music Hall has a capacity of around 3,000. I don't know if the wall was open between Music Hall and Public Hall (doubtful) because the stage is behind the camera angle in the photograph.

cleveland.com is not the best source for a crowd estimate since it is largely run by the Plain Dealer who seldom if ever has endorsed a Democratic presidential candidate in the general election (they endorsed W in 2000, endorsed no one in 2004). They are a poor source.

Based on the photograph, there were probably 10,000 to 11,000 in attendance. You can form your own opinion as to whether this was a substantial crowd, but don't base it on misinformation. DU should be a source for factual information otherwise it has no credibility. DU should also be a place for opinion. Don't confuse the two.

[OzarkDem]

207. Nope, 6,000

No traffic jams downtown before during or after the event. Decidedly underwhelming.

[sludge man]

246. Were you there?

Do you know ANYTHING about the subject you're writing about? Let me help you out with the answer. You don't.

[OzarkDem]

260. Read the OP

and yes I've been in the venue before. Our local Dem party Central Committee meetings draw a bigger crowd.

[Tarheel_Dem]

297. thank you

and welcome to DU :hi:

[Blarch]

192. LOL

The Hillary supporters finally have a state she is polling good in..and they want to crow about it. Thats fine with me, they know it's over...let them have their fun.

[NDambi]

215. "The Hillary supporters finally have a state she is polling good in" and that

would be a STATE OF DENIAL!!

ha forget Ohio

[grantcart]

200. so when the crowds get over 10,000 and they will are you going to

urge Senator Clinton to stop campaigning lol

[OzarkDem]

202. No, not at all

That's her decision and we need a strong Dem candidate to beat McCain. I have little faith in Obama.

[grantcart]

214. then what is your logic on posting re: size of crowd

and why would you open yourself up for criticism when the Obama campaign gets going in full and they do get huge crowds.

By the way can you find a single instance where HRC has attract 6000 supporters at one time?

[Gloria]

216. Maybe the stay at homes decided he should have been in NOLA

[jmg257]

218. "enough with the great speeches and huge rallies, meet me in Ohio & kick my ass in a debate too!"

"I demand you stop your winning ways, take campaign advice from me instead!" ("I wasted ALOT of money on it after all")

:mad: :crazy:

[zulchzulu]

219. Perhaps you meant the venue was FULL with 7,000+ Obama fans

It's been pointed out that the venue only holds 7,000 people and it was FULL.

Are you suggesting that people going to see Obama piggy-back on top of each other to get into a venue?

[OzarkDem]

244. Pee Dee said 6,000

and they endorsed him.

Either way, its not a big crowd in the biggest Dem stronghold in Ohio.

[zulchzulu]

273. Should people have climbed on the outside walls and on the roof?

The venue holds 6,000 people. You'd wonder why 15,000 people wouldn't show up?

:shrug:

[smoogatz]

224. How many did Hillary draw at her Cleveland rally?

Just curious.

[NJSecularist]

225. This thread is complete garbage

The spin in this thread is amazing.

Hillary's internal polling has collapsed - she has lost her lead in Ohio. There was a reason she was unhinged yesterday. She sees her chances going down the drain. She needs to do something drastic.

Fact: Obama is outdrawing Hillary.
Fact: Hillary is losing his lead in Ohio as we speak.

[Name removed]

227. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

229. "Maybe"

People were too busy working their 2nd or 3rd jobs, due to the heavy job loss here. Low turnout at a rally here doesn't concern me.

[RestoreGore]

232. So what will they do with the excess bottled water with no one to throw it to?

[mudesi]

237. Delusion (nm)

[adoraz]

239. LOL, you are insane

some people here need to get a life. they will distort anything just to make themselves feel good.

Obama is getting ridiculously large crowds wherever he goes. deal with it.

[Yael]

240. This has got to be the funniest thread I have read here in EONS

Thanks OzarkDem!

:rofl:

[OzarkDem]

245. Yea. I got quite a laugh too

driving downtown and seeing no crowds or traffic. The county Dem party has used the facility for central committee meetings - those draw bigger crowds.

[Yael]

280. Thanks for the report!

[Forkboy]

299. LMFAO!!!!!

:rofl:

Sums it up. :)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

263. It's a keeper.

[City Lights]

327. No kidding! And he/she calls us "delusional."

:rofl:

[Danger Mouse]

241. Bwahaha, I hope you guys keep this up...

:rofl:
i need some good laughs.

[OzarkDem]

247. Will do

Let's see if you're still laughing March 4.

[cali]

256. oh, odds are that Obama supporters will be celebrating

and you'll be bawling your eyes out. what a shame.

[PassingFair]

250. I can't believe I read the whole thing.....

I laughed, :rofl:

I hurled, :puke:

[stevenleser]

249. Is this to what you anti-Obama folks are reduced? n/t

[OzarkDem]

255. The local Dem party Central Committee meetings are larger than this

6,000 in Cuyahoga County is not a lot.

[SoxFan]

252. Which is it, OzarkDem?

[Barack_America]

253. It's a beautiful stadium. And you're right...

If I squint my eyes and tilt my head juuuust right, I think I can spot some empty seats up in the nosebleed section.

:rofl:

[casus belli]

254. You were expecting 15,000-17,000??

The Public Hall only seats around 10-12,000.

[nookiemonster]

257. BWAHAHAHA

My.....ribs.....can't.....take....this...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

262. You were expecting the rally to have more people than the venue could fit?

[PM7nj]

264. i thought big rallies are bad...

...isn't that what hillary has been screaming about lately?

[mindfulNJ]

265. Huh?

Looks full to me...:shrug:

[R_M]

266. Maybe they're too drunk on the kool-aid to attend?

:shrug:

Or maybe Ohio doesn't care him as much as other states did.

[Khaotic]

267. Checking in from Iowa

Obama was getting huge crowds from as far back as last summer.

Here in Davenport he had a crushing crowd which filled a high school gym beyond capacity ... last summer.

People want to reach out and engage politics through a leader who can make a difference.

No more status quo.

Go Obama!

[johnnie]

268. I've lived here all my life

Downtown doesn't get jammed up that often. I have been down there during Browns games, Cavs games, Indians games and concerts and it was only jammed after the games.

As for this area drawing 10s of thousands for political rallies, where did you get those figures? I was at Bill Clinton's when he first ran and there was nowhere near 10,000 people there and this was outside.

[Thrill]

269. LOL. Looks like this poster got blasted

hahahahha

[whatchamacallit]

270. What a dumb fucking thread.

:yoiks:

[VolcanoJen]

271. You're still my favorite delusional poster.

"Obama appears to be a flash in the pan."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Hillary sure did pack 'em in at the high school gymnasiums over the weekend, huh?

[tammywammy]

282. LOL

[Drunken Irishman]

283. Psst, me thinks OzarkDem is fucking with us.

This is what we call a pseudo-troll, someone who blatantly trolls to the point where you know they can't be real.

I think she's acting as a parody of Clinton supporters, because really, no one can actually believe this, right?

So yeah, OzarkDem gets a the Oscar for best pseudo-troll post in DU history. Well done, you actually had people believing you were real!

:toast:

[K Gardner]

285. Ozark has already made it clear she won't be voting Democratic in November..

which makes one wonder what she's doing here at all

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4743760&mesg_id=4744045

[yourguide]

318. oh THAT is hilarious!

So wait, the only person she will vote for is the candidate who voted us into Iraq and the last democrat to admit she was wrong in casting that vote? So THAT person, who is responsible for getting us in there, was in denial over her vote being wrong, THAT is the candidate that is going to get us out of iraq?

And she chooses to ignore her other option of voting for another candidate who says he will get us out of iraq and as early as Oct 2002 was on RECORD against the war????

:rofl::rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[PassingFair]

290. Who you gonna believe? OzardDem or your OWN LYING EYES?

[PITBOS]

284. I don't get this. That arena looked packed to me*

*

[Algorem]

286. Cleveland Channel 3 news did report,panned audience,definite-

ly not packed full.

the video should be here-

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=83846

"Click here for Obie Shelton's report on Obama's Cleveland rally"-

http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=55471&bw=


I can't get it to work on this puter,saw it the old-fashioned way,on boob tube

[johnnie]

289. The video is from three hours before the rally

Shelton's report is three hours before the rally is to start and he is commenting on how many people are arriving so early.

[Algorem]

314. ok,i found the steenking video ,they showed the same little shot

on their political show this morning

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=83856

http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=55482&bw=

Between the Lines-Obama surge,Clinton attack, Mayor Jackson's State of the City




Tom Beres
Created: 2/24/2008 12:26:33 PM
Updated:2/24/2008 4:56:52 PM

Video

*
Play Video
http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=55482&bw=

CLEVELAND--A frantic, frenzied week in politics is coming in Greater Cleveland.
The Obama/Clinton debate at Cleveland State will put the city in the national spotlight.

Barack Obama had a big weekend rally at the Convention Center.

And Hillary Clinton attacked him for dishonest campaign literature in Cincinnati.

Is that a warm-up for Tuesday's crucial debate?...

[Tarheel_Dem]

301. omg...another fraud, but nice try.

why is the size of obama's crowds (at ONE rally) so important? HRC supporters have yet to tell us how many she's packing in Ohio at the local high school gym, and we're supposed to take you guys seriously?

[Algorem]

304. call names.it's on ch. 3 video.whole sections at the top in the arena

were EMPTY.now i'm just loving the idea of your type seeing it.the plain dealer endorsed obama,which is nothing for him to be proud of.they probably inflated the attendance too.yiou must be fascinated with the subject,reading a 300-reply thread and making asinine insults.

[Tarheel_Dem]

305. you jumped clean over post #289 to get to me?

you didn't answer the charge that this was three (3) hours before the start of the event. Care to address that?

[Algorem]

306. barack clinton,hillary obama,whatever

the only difference would probably be the oval office rug they have made would be a shade different

[Tarheel_Dem]

309. why thank you. i am rather smart, and glad you recognized it....

:hi:

[Tarheel_Dem]

317. nice edit job there........n/t

[cd3dem]

300. his busses and people had to go back to Illinois

[DUyellow]

302. LOL, you didn't read one comment on this page...

[Tarheel_Dem]

308. I have to agree with you....

read the i.p., and nothing in between. You know what they say about "denial", right? This thread is such a joke, but it's fun watching the Hillarites in all out desparation mode.

[Perry Logan]

303. He's paying the price for all that dirty, sleazy, sneaky, underhanded, crooked campaigning!

[NastyRiffraff]

307. This is dumb. The "battle of the crowd count."

The unpleasant fact is that big crowds do not necessarily translate into votes. Howard Dean got the biggest crowds, bar none, in the 2004 cycle. We Dean people were thrilled, and thought he'd be a shoe-in for the nomination. Sadly, many who physically flocked to Dean didn't vote for him.

Lest some Obama supporters get their shorts in a knot, yes, he's winning so far. Granted. I'm only saying that crowd count alone isn't a good barometer.

[workinclasszero]

340. OK forget the crowd count and focus on 11 election wins in a row!! /nt

Soon to be 13!!! GOBAMA!!!

[Perry Logan]

311. And the way his campaign repeatedly played the race card...

[book_worm]

313. Well I guess he can't get over 10,000 every time. How many times has Hillary?

[DemGa]

315. K & R for the public waking up from this nonsense ---NT

[caligirl]

316. pix from t6he Ohio blog of a packed house

http://www.ohiodailyblog.com/content/obama-cleveland-photos
Obama in Cleveland - Photos
Submitted by Jeff on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 12:53pm.

Here are photographs from the rally for Barack Obama at the Cleveland Convention Center last night. I was in the press section with digital camera, tripod, laptop, and audiorecorder. There were more than 6,000 cheering, applauding, sign-waving Ohioans out in the public seating (including blogger Scott Bakalar). One section in the balcony was jammed with noisy purple-shirted SEIU members. The crowd seemed heavily although not predominantly African American. A section for dignitaries included a host of area elected officials and the political bigwigs.

[anamandujano]

320. In a word "Obama fatigue," umm, I mean two words. :)

[City Lights]

321. Someone is suffering from crowd-size envy.

Poor dear.

[ErnestoG]

322. As opposed to Hillary's routine draw of...dozens?

[Unsane]

325. lol

[loveangelc]

329. you're pathetic and its unbecoming :(

[krkaufman]

342. hey, thanks for the heads-up. I'll contact my board of elections here in Illinois...

... and have them change my vote. I sure was duped.

[saltpoint]

344. In 8 days we'll get a much better read on the Ohio Democratic electorate.

Including Cuyahoga County.

[cali]

346. let's get another hundred people to laugh at this thread

it's so richly deserving.

[greguganus]

347. Kickin' for more laughter. n/t