Finally. Something we can ALL agree on. Nader supporters have no business here.

[Midlodemocrat]

:bounce:

[kedrys]

1. Seconded

My ignore list is about to get more food. Bummer, in a way.

[mtnester]

2. All us good Dems who are poo slinging at each other

will line up shoulder to shoulder to pick it all back and and sling it back toward the Nadernuts.

Without question.

[bowens43]

3. Agreed.

Is there really anyone stupid enough to support this asshole again after what he did in 2000? Does Nader want another 8 years of republicans in the oval office? Is nader so fucking stupid that he thinks he actually can do anything more then be a spoiler?

[Red Zelda]

4. True

No one will vote for this prick again. Why does he never run for Congress or town council or anything that will prove he has any capacity to do anything but be a jackass.

[Window]

12. Exactly.

Peace:thumbsup:

[Stuckinthebush]

5. Amen

Just like Ron Paul supporters have no business here.

Anyone who is not a supporter of a Democrat has no business here.

[whistle]

6. Fascists = phundies = freepers = neocons = Naderites

[Liberal Dose]

7. Ralph Fucking Nader. I don't even have a word to describe how pissed I am at his need to

do whatever the RNC asks of him. His campaign contributions come from them, so how Ralph Fucking Nader could even have supporters now is beyond me. :crazy:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Thing Is, I Consider Them To Be Worse Than Republicans. I Really Do.

In 2000, at least those voting for Bush did so with purpose. They did so with a conviction towards something, with a goal in mind, with a message. Now granted, it is the complete opposite purpose, conviction and goal in which I support and in which I can't stand their mentality for, but at least it was a passionate belief in SOMETHING.

But naderites? Nader himself? They only serve to be little tantrum throwing children with NO PURPOSE, with NO GOALS, with their only intention to snub their noses at the political process and act as spoilers. I will NEVER respect anyone who has no other purpose than to sabotage with no hope or intention whatsoever to actually accomplish anything other than 'hahaha hehehe' type childish bullshit. That's all nader is, that all his supporters are. No real purpose. No hope of getting elected or facilitating anything. Nothing real to root for. Just immature "hahahaha hehehe we're gonna get in your way hahaha hehehe" bullshit.

God I hate them. I really do.

[susanr516]

71. You said that much more eloquently than I could

and with a LOT less cursing.

btw, I mostly lurk around here, but I'm so glad to see you back in action. I don't pray, but I try to send positive thoughts to you and your family every day.

[RiverStone]

83. On this point we 100% agree!

Ya think if Nader really wanted to be a change agent - he could run as an Independent Senator or Congressman - why enter the presidential fray again???! Nope, he just needs to be the kid who walks into school after stepping in a pile of dog-shit without bothering to wipe his shoes.

It matters not what is being taught - he will do anything to get attention even if he stinks up the place.

I hope the mods quickly slam the tombstone on anybody here advocating Nader as a viable choice!

[terrya]

9. Yes.

Since Ralph Nader reguarly trashes the Democratic Party, and since this is Democratic Underground, which supports the Democratic Party candidate, you have to wonder why some people appear to be so fucking clueless about pushing Nader around here.

[BeachBuckeye]

10. Correct! It says "Democratic Underground"

Ralphie is as anti-Democratic Party as any Republican. He takes their money and has acted as their spoiler. Once again, Ralphie is going to allow his massive ego help Republicans take the White House. His supporters can dish out all of their "we need a third choice" crap they want but one cannot deny that because of his run against Gore, Ralph Nader is personally responsible for much of the trouble our nation finds itself in today. I've invited him to debate me on my show numerous times but he doesn't have the guts to answer the questions he knows he would face.

Ralph Nader is a gutless, egotistical coward of a man.

[Bonobo]

11. I disagree. Many of them are progressives. We want them in the Dem party.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

13. Well, they can create their own "progressivesforNader" board.

[Bonobo]

14. Why don't you create your own "DemcoraticUndergagorder"?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

15. LOL. If you keep supporting Nader, I will need to do nothing more than

wave :hi: bye bye!

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

17. Nader on MTP. Asks if Sen. Obama has the "moral courage to get things done"

Is that progressive?

[MadHound]

20. Absolutely, in fact is it a good and pertinent question

Anybody can talk a good game, but it's always questionable whether or not they will actually do what they promise once in office. Sadly, it usually turns out that "No" is the answer.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

27. Methinks thou shalt not here the same question asked of McCain from Nader.

He doesn't want to piss off the R's.

[MadHound]

29. Nader blasts both sides equally,

And if you ever actually read some of his work you would realize that. Nader is and has been, in many ways, the conscience of our political process. Sadly it seems that more people would rather demonize him than follow his advice.

But it is becoming more and more obvious to an increasing number of people that we're living under the two party/same corporate master system of government. Writers from Chomsky to Nader to Zinn, along with many millions of other ordinary people speak and write of this very problem. Are you going to demonize all those people also, or will you wake up and look around, realize what the problem is and start doing something about it? Hint for you, a find place to start would be with publicly financed election campaigns.

But hey, I realize that it is much easier to demonize a scapegoat that do the hard work of fixing our party and our political system. So hey, stay there in your cocoon, we'll do the heavy lifting for you until you decide to wake the fuck up.

[Occam Bandage]

33. Actually, though, he doesn't. He launched more attacks on Gore than he did on Bush.

[MadHound]

35. I think that you really need to go back and read some of his work

Rather than believing in what is bantered about on anonymous internet chat boards. Nader has been vociferous in his criticism of both 'Pugs and Dems, because he realizes that we're living under a two party/same corporate master system of government.

And even if he did blast Gore more, that doesn't excuse Gore's poor position vis-a-vis off shore drilling and the entire Votescam debacle.

Stop playing the blame game, it's pointless and distracts from the real problems that are plaguing this party and our country.

[Occam Bandage]

36. I have. And it is fact that on the campaign trail, his attacks on Gore outnumbered his attacks on *

by 2:1.

[MadHound]

57. Really? You got some actual facts to back that up with? Links, stats, anything?

Cause I've actually read most of what Nader had to say during the '00 campaign, and your ratio seems far off to me. So I'd appreciate if you would post some proof.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

37. Defending Nader AND going after Gore.

Is that a twofer?

[MadHound]

40. Oh, yes, stone me, whip me, for I am a heretic

:eyes:

Yes, I defend Nader, because he has important contributions to make to our national discussion. Yes, I criticize Gore because he ran a piss poor campaign in '00, though he's made up for it since then when he decided to get out of politics.

Yet I'm willing to stack my thirty five plus years of Democratic credentials up against yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday(hey, it looks like I'm going to have to repeat this today). I've been a good and loyal, albeit highly critical Dem, over the years. Deal with it. I'll take a heretical Dem any day who knows what reality is over some blind and dumb party loyalist who dares not criticize a damn thing. This party is in serious trouble and we need to wake the fuck up and address these problems or watch this party go the way of the Whigs. Don't like that assessment? Tough shit, deal with it.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

43. OK, now the Democratic party is going the way of the Whigs?

Based on this election cycle, it seems the reverse is happening.

[MadHound]

50. Part of the problem with our governmet and society

The lack of long term thinking. Parties and government officials only think ahead to the next election cycle, corporations only think ahead to the yearly bottom line. Our government isn't designed for rapid change, yet the myriad of problems facing our society requires just that, rapid change. So instead, we muddle along making progress in inches at a time, while this country and world is going under measured in feet and yards at a time. And all the while, that soothing dance band is still playing.

Stop buying into this short term trap, and take a look at the bigger picture, engage in long term thinking.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

62. Now you're going all fatalistic on me. Anyway, at least you've quit promoting St. Nader.

Have a good day! :hi:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

48. "tough shit, deal with it" is always a compelling way to support your position.

:toast:

[MadHound]

53. Hey, it made you sit up and pay attention

Can't be all bad:toast:

You know what they say about a small amount of patience and fools don't you:think:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

60. Are we talking about Nader, still?

Or are you just resorting to personal attacks to keep this thread going?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

34. I respect Chomsky and Zinn because they don't jump into the presidential race on a whim.

He can run, he has every right, but to see him touted as the 2nd coming here, when he has not done the hard work of building support and campaigning and even holding a single public office does nothing beneficial for any of us. Perhaps the R's have a different view.

I'm actually heavily involved as a delegate, and as a member of a political advocacy group working to deliver single payer health care to our state.

I work my ass off at work and at these things, and don't appreciate Nader living the good life for four years and then sauntering onto the public stage to say he's running on a platform of "they're all crooked, every last one".

He singled out the Democratic Congress and Senators Obama and Clinton for criticism today. AND, his criticism of Obama was personal, not about his positions on issues.

Did he criticize the R's, except for an easy swipe at Bush?

I only WISH I lived in a cocoon. And, I see Nader for what he is, which is deeply disappointing because I remember the Nader's Raiders days when he made such a difference for average Americans. It appears he doesn't have the stomach for the hard work anymore, when all he has to do is call up Russert and get 15 minutes of softball questions.

[MadHound]

38. You've obviously let your blindness and bitterness overcome your intelligence

Otherwise you would realize that Nader hasn't and isn't simply lounging around waiting for every new election cycle. His body of work is out there, all the speeches, articles, appearances, and books for the past eight years and beyond.

He is a tireless and passionate man, dedicated to fighting the corporate powers that are eating this country alive. However he has been successfully marginalized by both parties, because the corporations that control them don't want his message to spread. And the sheeple in this country go Baaa, Baaa, and buy into the corporate bullshit, Nader Baaaa-d, Baaaa-d.

I will ask you to read one thing by Nader, Crashing the Party, and then get back to me. Hopefully your eyes will have opened.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

41. How can he be "marginalized" when he can just call NBC and get on MTP?

That was the single "cognitive dissonance" moment I had reading your post.

The rest was well reasoned, and I appreciate the recommendation. Of course, you calling me blind and bitter was harsh, but hey this is DU, after all.

[MadHound]

46. Let's see, when he is kept off of ballots, off of debates, and is deliberately smeared,

Yes, I would say he is marginalized. Hope you follow the reading recommendation.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

58. If he's kept off the ballots, it's because he didn't do the boots on the ground work necessary

to get on the ballots. Now, after he's announced, I imagine he'll sit back and let his supporters scramble, and I'll bet his digs at Sen. Obama today gets him some contributions. He didn't mention McCain.

After his appearance today, I'll bet he gets softball questions on The Today Show and other venues tomorrow. Let's just see, shall we, his supposedly even handed attacks on "both" sides, in the morning.

He didn't say he had problems with Sen. Obama's platform. He questioned whether Sen. Obama has "moral courage". That's a personal attack that should be beneath Ralph Nader, and it would have been, back in the day.

Did he mention McCain and the lobbyist story? Nada.

Nader had a sterling reputation and a solid following in 2000, that he could have parlayed into real political change. That he hasn't is a huge disappointment.

And, Edwards wishes he could have gotten those softball questions Nader got from Russert. In fact, Kucinich would have been happy to take ANY questions from Russert.

There's where I see marginalization, not in being able to sashay onto the national stage and announce for President and then start campaigning from scratch, all while getting free airtime on the big Three and cable.

[eridani]

85. And not one bit of organizing

You need party structures to put progressive candidates in the pipeline of local electoral politics. He doen't care about that.

[Occam Bandage]

22. Except, that is, for the position that his candidacy is justified and vote-worthy.

[MaineDem]

23. Defending his position perhaps; supporting his run for POTUS? Nope

It's right there in DU rules.

[Midlodemocrat]

54. Read this. It's what Skinner wrote about Nader during the first week of DU.

Maybe it will open your eyes to how Democrats feel about this guy.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/01/010127_7days.html

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. Anyone Who Supports Nader Is Not A Progressive. They Are A Moron.

It really is quite that simple.

I mean hell, I'll welcome them to the party with open arms when their braincells start firing again and they realize how stupid they were to support him in the first place, but until such a time comes I'll be damned if I consider them 'progressives'. They're just simply moronic.

[AZBlue]

42. Do we really want people in the Dem party who are determined to hurt our chances in Nov?

I think not.

[Midlodemocrat]

49. Those 'progressives' of which you speak gave us 8 years of Bushco, so not just no. Fuck no.

[krkaufman]

86. Then Nader should have run for the Democratic nomination...

... and then they'd be supporting the Democratic Party.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Agreed. Naderites are the most despicable form of political life, bar none.

I'd rather have to talk to a Neocon for an hour than a Naderite.

[Taverner]

32. At least some of the Neocons have a sense of humor

Naderites have none, and are more like Fundy Xians

[Cameron27]

21. I'm with you on that.

K&R

[MaineDem]

24. Totally agree! n/t

[Debi]

25. Right on!

:woohoo:

[TZ]

26. Yep

K+R

[Seabiscuit]

28. OK. I'll say it: FUCK.RALPH.NADER.

:evilgrin:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

59. Who wants to do that?

:scared:

:P

[Seabiscuit]

65. UGH!

:rofl:

[Taverner]

30. Yup

Those who support that hack Nader..

Are themselves, at the core, traitors...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

31. Gotta K & R. I couldn't believe the number of Obama supporters who are rallying for him as he

began to immediately go after Obama on MTP.

[Zodiak]

39. Nader supporters have business here

Insofar as they are willing to discuss progressive topics and not their candidate.

That's what the rules say...not that people are wholly unwelcome because they back a progressive candidate that is not a Democrat. They just aren't allowed to campaign against Democrats here. There is no need to tell them that they are not allowed in any reindeer games.

But you may continue with the 2 minutes hate. I find such exercises to be pointless and tribal.

[Midlodemocrat]

47. .

:eyes:

[Zodiak]

64. Rebuttal by emoticon

Doesn't cut it.

[Midlodemocrat]

66. Says you.

:rofl:

[Zodiak]

67. Absolutely substanceless

That's the charge, and it apparently sticks.

But whatever.

[casus belli]

44. No shortage of self-importance complex in Nader, eh?

This guy is bound and determined to "save the world". Whether it wants to be saved or not.

[Arkana]

45. Absolutely.

Is it possible for Saint Ralph to have less relevance than he did in 2004?

[jonnyblitz]

51. DU is the last place I would want to hang out if I were a Nader

supporter, unless I were a masochist. :crazy:

[faithfulcitizen]

52. Yes, Finally!

[sniffa]

55. Hopefully DU doesn't treat former Mercer supporters like this

Unity!

[Midlodemocrat]

56. .

:rofl:

:loveya:

[rug]

61. No, we have already all agreed that Oasis sucks.

[Araxen]

63. Yup

Should ban them all.

[ellisonz]

68. Fuck Nader.

[Forkboy]

69. I don't support Nader, but I did vote for Grace Ross for Gov of Mass.

Sue me.

[Sybbis]

70. Of course Nader supporters belong here if they are DEMOCRATS

Oh but wait... I forgot... the Obama maniacs who have taken over this board have decided that it's just for them. The only candidate who can be supported is their candidate. THERE ARE NO OTHER DEMOCRATS! Gosh, it's all so simple really....

Let's see now, if I recall the ranting correctly, Clinton Democrats are all secretly George W. Bush Republicans and racists. I'm not sure what you'll decide is the best way to insult and alienate Nader Democrats although, of course, they too will be called racists. You have effectively removed any chance your candidate has to win in November. Nice moves!

[Midlodemocrat]

73. Lighten up, Francis. I never said I was a Hillary supporter.

And, no, they're not welcome here. Read upthread. The post about the first week of DU. Learn something about the site.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[insanity]

72. My problem with Nader:

First off, we have to accept the fact that presidential systems usually encourage competition between two major parties, and for better or worse, we are stuck with that.

Nader is an idiot and an asshole. I respect the work he did, he was a great consumer advocate and was a credit to the Carter Administration. However, if he really wanted to fix things he'd spend his time running for Congress or something slightly more realistic.

Taking money from the repubs to destroy the dems is pretty funny. We should start giving money to the independent bid of Buchanan and see if we can fuck the right over.

[Canuckistanian]

74. If Sheehan supporters weren't allowed, Naderites DEFINITELY shouldn't be

This point was settled by Skinner.

[Midlodemocrat]

75. And it should be a no brainer for us.

Regardless of which candidate we are supporting. Nader fucked us over during the 2000 election and there should be no support for him here. Period.

Skinner had a great comment in my post upthread about the first week of DU. Seven days Underground. A great read.

[Kahuna]

76. Got that right. I'm sure there must be a nader forum somewhere where they

can hold a circle jerk.

[BreweryYardRat]

78. Amen. Nader was a fool in 2000. This year, he's a traitor to the country.

Anyone supporting him is an idiot, and handing their vote to the Repugs.

[Raine]

79. AGREED ... Fuck Nader! nt

[Raejeanowl]

80. I'll Never Forgive Him n/t

[Fox Mulder]

81. Agreed.

Best post I've read all day. :thumbsup:

[TheDonkey]

84. FUCK YOU NADER AND NADER SUPPORTERS

Get out of here. PERIOD.

[donheld]

87. Agreed

No Naderitis