With Ralph in the race Obama will score more points

[fenriswolf]

With ralph in the race Obama will not be the loony lefty, Nader will be. Obama will be the centrist candidate in the race and I believe his campaign will reflect alot of new Democrats who could only vote for Obama because they hate McCain and at least he is not Nader.

[Stuckinthebush]

1. Very true

I haven't thought about that angle.

While Nader may take a fraction of a percent of progressives, many independents may vote for Obama because they see the contrast and won't be afraid of him.

Good call.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

2. I Definitely Think Nader Will Be Less Effective This Time Around.

Course, that doesn't make me hate the fucker any less.

[John Q. Citizen]

3. I agree. Dems who quake in fear and tremble with loathing at the mention of the name Nader are

part of the problem, not the solution, in my opinion.

I think part of the fear and loathing originates with the fact that they know, consciously or unconsciously that what he says has some level of validity.

If Nader said, for instance, that the Dems are controlled by an alien race from outer space, nobody would react with fear and loathing. They might laugh at that, or ridicule that, but they wouldn't react with anger and fear.

The anger and fear are very telling. That they let Ralph constantly push their buttons is a reflection of the insecurity of some of the rank and file Democrats.

What one fears and loathes is a reflection on a person. For instance, some people fear and loath undocumented workers in the US. It's entirely possible to believe that we need a system to effectively deal with immigration without fearing, loathing, and scape-goating undocumented workers.

It's just as possible to make a coherent argument against voting for Nader without fearing and loathing Nader. The hysteria he creates within some people is irrational.

Scape-goating is a sign of desperation and non-thinking, whether it's scape-goating undocumented workers or scape-goating Nader, or scape-goating welfare recipients.

[Ravy]

7. I can give you 90,000 reasons you are wrong.

And throw in 8 years of bush to boot.

It wasn't the only factor, but one of several that allowed this fiasco to happen.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. I bet you think if Nader dies there wouldn't be any more problem? The problem isn't Nader, it's the

system the two major parties have set up that insures ANY third party/independent run must act as a spoiler.

When this system comes back and bites either party in the ass, they whine about that years non-Dem or non-Repo candidate as if it's their fault that the parties have colluded to enforce a strangle hold on American democracy.

Fusion voting, instant run-off voting and other constitutionally acceptable systems would make third party/independent runs feasible without them forced to act as spoilers.

Heck, if Buchanan hadn't have run in 2000, all those Palm Beach butterfly ballot votes would have gone to Gore. Yet I don't see Dems blaming Buchanan for running. Heck, most were glad that he ran, on the assumption he was acting as a spoiler to bush.

You just hate Nader because you know that there is some validity to his analysis, and because he is closer to the progressive Dems in philosophy than to the Repos, so you feel that it's more some sort of treachery than just opposition.

This is America and if someone wants to run, they can. We should be smart enough to set up a system that encourages political participation that doesn't require the participant to also be a spoiler.

This will happen again. If it's not Nader, it will be someone else. You can then proceed to hate them too, I suppose.

[Ravy]

17. Actually, the votes would have gone to whoever was after

Buchanan on the ballot. But why bother with logic when you think you can read other peoples minds and motives.

[dansolo]

13. No, it's because he is funded by the Republicans

Ralph is a front, and if he truly believed in everything he says, he wouldn't be so willing to take money from Republicans. Talk about lack of moral courage.

[John Q. Citizen]

15. Everybody takes money from Republicans. Are you telling me Hillary would turn down

contributions from a registered Republican? Or Obama?

Get real!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. Nader is Obama's nemesis.

Hillary nows stands a MUCH bigger chance of convincing her party that SHE's a far more viable candidate against both McCain and Nader versus Obama since the same peeps who would vote for Obama would also go Nader, while folks who go for Hillary aren't so likely to go for Nader in a three way race anyway, and even if Obama clinches the nomination, Nader would steals votes away from him and pave the way for a McCain presidency. Poor Obama!

[SKKY]

5. Excited about a McCain presidency are you?

Well good for you.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. just giving you a little glimpse of the reality of the Nader effect

[UALRBSofL]

8. I don't know how effective Nader will be this election cycle

I mean he may pick up a few progressive votes but I think most people are going to rally around the democratic nominee to get the republican machine out of office.

[dansolo]

16. But they won't vote for Hillary either

You assume that Obama loses voters to Nader, but those same voters would never vote for Hillary. You seem to be disregarding all of the new voters that Obama has brought to the process. Hillary isn't going to automatically get those votes if she is the nominee.

[polichick]

6. Are there really progressives who are dumb enough to vote for him again??

God, I hope not.

[cloudythescribbler]

10. Obama doesn't need any of the "help" that a Nader candidacy would bring ... n/t

[casus belli]

12. I think Nader will Siphon off some of McCain's Independent support. n/t

[writes3000]

14. I really, really agree.

McCain = maverick, older, independent-minded, veteran politician white male.

Nader = maverick, older, independent-minded, veteran politician white male.

[mculator]

18. I disagree

It gives HRC supporters an alternative to the BO cult.

[fenriswolf]

19. it gives HRC voters a wastebasket to throw away your votes

get out of here with that childish shit.

[NJSecularist]

20. Why don't you go root for the rethugs then?

Because that is essentially what a Nader vote does.