Hillary showed she is tough this weekend and I like it.

[Tennessee Gal]

[Tennessee Gal]

1. Another poster just called her "shrill."

A woman gets tough and she is "shrill."

Pathetic.

[TheDonkey]

4. It was not tough it was crazed ranting

She could have been substantive but she chose to just shout, mock, and yell.

[Tennessee Gal]

5. Of course you would say that.

[Tennessee Gal]

15. I noticed you changed it to "caustic screaming."

No surprise there.

[Muzza]

22. Same old critique - a woman who expresses anger is "crazy"!

[TheDonkey]

38. I don't remember saying she was crazy

but she was delivering some crazed ranting! There is a big difference that Hillary supporters do not seem to understand. I a person does not need to be "scum" like they call Obama but she her action are uncalled for. Please watch the clip of her in Ohio shouting "SHAME ON YOU BARACK OBAAAMA!" and imagine if Bush, McCain, or Obama said that about an opponent. What do you think the reaction would be? Do the same for her little mocking skit and seriously imagine how offensive and low class it is.

[Tennessee Gal]

47. Crazed ranting is not calling her crazy?

:eyes:

[durrrty libby]

61. Shush and go back to worshiping at the alter of The Empty Messiah

[liberalnurse]

28. You are sadly a bitter DU'er today.

What a sad demise to someone who was respected by peer posters.

[eilen]

78. My girlfriend said she sounded like her husband's exwife

[jlake]

112. You would say that.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

117. like fingernails on a black board

I have to turn my sound off everytime she appears on tv.

Another description - rubbing sheets of styrofoam together back and forth.

And this "shame on you" shit sounds ridiculous coming from a "presidential" candidate.

Sounds more like kindergarten.

[Muzza]

20. Yep, it's called sexism - men don't understand what that is.

[totodeinhere]

103. Why does it always have to boil down to sexism?

When are you ever going to realize that this has nothing to do with sexism? I would oppose Senator Clinton just as much if she were a man. I can't abide her for a multitude of reasons which start with her acquiescence with the war, her belligerence over Iran, NAFTA, and her lack of a plan to bring back jobs lost to the so-called "free trade" policy championed by her husband. It has nothing to do with her gender, and I wish that people would stop playing the sexism card every chance they get.

And for that matter, most women don't buy that sexism ruse anymore either. Did you notice that Obama carried the woman's vote in Wisconsin?

[liberalnurse]

25. That is exactly why the women in Ohio

will win her the state. We are sick of the belittling, of women.

[Muzza]

I hope so!

It's only women and gay men who have an understanding of what it's like to live at the mercy of straight men. Those at the top of the ladder cannot understand what it's like to be further down the ladder. And they will do anything to ensure you and I don't overtake them. Sexism. Homophobia. These are the weapons are dominant straight men. And then they get upset and all rigtheous when we dare fight back with the same venom!

[totodeinhere]

105. Just like the women of Wisconsin did?

Oops, Obama carried the women's vote in Wisconsin.

[Maribelle]

119. Many independent women voted for Obama in Wisconsin that have no intention of voting for him again

these independents have totally skewed prior statistics

Sadly, Democrats will not be choosing the Democratic nominee this year.

[MadHound]

2. More like how desperate she is.

Even before Wisconsin it was becoming apparent that Hillary wasn't going to win, so she started really going negative. Now with the serious possibility of her losing TX and possibly OH, her desperation has been ratcheted up by at least one order of magnitude. She's beyond going negative and frankly starting to lie. You can also see the same sort of desperation in her supporters around here, as their attacks become ever more vicious, and we're hearing more and more Hillary supporters stating that they won't vote for Obama in the fall.

Tough isn't the word I would use, going out gracelessly is more like it.

[Tennessee Gal]

3. No surprise. You proved my point.

[Adams Wulff]

9. You had a point?

A mere subject line OP is a point?

FAIL.

[MadHound]

Umm, I didn't see you making a point.

All I saw was a subject line that I responded to. Perhaps if you would fill us in then we could have a productive discussion.

[Tennessee Gal]

16. I posted it the way I did to get reactions.

And the reactions are as expected.

[MadHound]

23. Ah, so you were looking to be provocative,

So you can act all hurt when people react. Sad, really. Let me guess, you're going to link to this thread on some obscure blog so as to "prove" to your fellow sycophant supporters that you're a poor, picked on Hillary supporter:eyes:

Typical, just typical.

[Adams Wulff]

32. Hey Madhound...

...are you thinking what I'm thinking?








IGNORE?

[MadHound]

35. Nah, I have never put anybody on ignore.

Everybody here has something to contribute, even if it just some sort of entertainment value.

[Adams Wulff]

42. I can appreciate that. n/t

[durrrty libby]

53. You think? I doubt it

[Adams Wulff]

27. So... What's your point?

Other than baiting people and ridiculing their reactions?

Oh, wait... that is your point.

[Tennessee Gal]

50. My point is that Hillary is that I support Hillary being tough.

[liberalnurse]

33. Let's just the the Obamarites have DU?

The trolls are vicious and we have work to do.

[Muzza]

55. I'm here. I will battle with you.

[liberalnurse]

71. Thank you.

I am a softie when it comes to comradery and a mission! Okay!:pals:

[liberalnurse]

73. You sound rather desperate by the way.

This group of Obamarites...they cut fast, let ya bleed for a reason.

FEAR!

Keep it up...keep me informed as I can smell your FEAR!

[cali]

6. But will undecided voters like it?

You're a partisan, so it doesn't really matter what you think, anymore than it matters what I think. How do you think undecided voters will react to her new persona? And particularly voters under 40 and men.

[Tennessee Gal]

7. I don't know and neither do you.

[cali]

12. um. wrong. we don't know conclusively, but we already know

white men are rejecting her in state after state. And though I don't know, I can take an educated guess: This will turn off more men, and lose her more younger voters.

[Tennessee Gal]

18. Educated guess. ok. You still don't know. Neither do I.

[Muzza]

24. And surely you have to concede the rejection of clinton by white men

has no other basis than sexism? Her strength and power is viewed as "threatening" by white men. She dares to challenge their power and they don't like it. This is how a patriarchal society works. Why would they promote her above themselves? Under what circumstances? If she was younger, prettier, softer - than she'd be seen as weak. She can't win - if she is relaxed and calm she is contructed as weak. If she is passionate and angry she is constructed as crazy, out of control. That's sexism, nothing else.

[Tennessee Gal]

30. You got it!

[Muzza]

46. Oh, I get it. A gay man knows how to take on these ignorant straight men.

[cali]

31. Of course. Who said that it was fair? Certainly not I.

She has to deal with sexism. He has to deal with racism. He's done a better job than she has. She plays right into stereotypes with stuff like the "Shame on you" line. It's tone deaf. She's surprisingly politically tone deaf.

[Muzza]

54. Not on the same scale...

There has been much discussion, debate and analysis which has concluded that racism has not affected him anywhere near to the same level that sexism has affected her. People still think sexism is ok, or not at bad as racism, and are therefore far more willing to engage in it. Undoubetdly, one of the reasons Obama has been able to sale through this campaign without much scrutiny is because white people do not want to be labeled "racist" by asking him difficult questions. On the other hand, the media and all and sundry have had no qualms about engaging in rampant sexism and undermining Clinton's campaig. So, in my opinion, these 2 candidates are not at all running on a level playing field.

[cali]

75. Racism hasn't had as much of an impact on his candidacy because

he's handled it far better than she has. She's a politically tone deaf candidate who plays into stereotypes instead of navigating around them. Bill she is not.

[Oleladylib]

8. PLEASE, if it were a man he would be tough and strong.

[cali]

11. bzzzzt. Not if it were a black man.

The "angry black man" stereotype is just as widespread and more "scary" than the angry woman meme.

[Skidmore]

21. If it were a man, he'd be obnoxious, which is what she was.

What is tough about yelling at someone? It doesn't reflect resolve, only belligerence--in both genders.

[Tennessee Gal]

37. She wasn't yelling.

She was speaking forcefully. And I applaud her for it.

I know the difference.

[TheDonkey]

41. If somone was in your face and was "speaking forcefully" to you like that

you wouldn't consider it yelling? Wow. She was standing in a silent room in front of a microphone, no need to shout, and that is what she was doing.

[Tennessee Gal]

52. Yes, because I can speak forcefully, too.

[Skidmore]

77. She was yelling.

I wouldn't tolerate that behavior from a man or child, and I certainly wouldn't tolerate it from another woman.

[Tennessee Gal]

79. You wouldn't stand up for yourself? I certainly would.

And I would do it forcefully.

[Skidmore]

83. I can stand up for myself without yelling.

[Tennessee Gal]

91. She did.

[Political Heretic]

69. Not this. There's strength, and then there's looking like your campaign is imploding.

Man or woman - doesn't make a difference. Anyone who got up and did that, the way it was delivered, the way it was staged, in this context with her campaign problems would look bad.

[Tennessee Gal]

80. Of course an Obama supporter would say that.

[Oleladylib]

10. and may she attack ..headon..Tuesday night

[cali]

13. I hope so. It make him look good. He deflects her attacks with deftness

and if she does, she'll get booed again. That's always entertaining. She is tone deaf.

[liberal N proud]

14. Which is true

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4756267

[JTFrog]

17. She showed she was tough with IWR and Kyl-Lieberman as well. How is that workign out for you? n/t

[sendero]

48. Tough enough..

.... to flip off her base in defiance. Now she's paying the price.

No amount of "shame on you" BULLSHIT, because that is what it is, will win back voters in the face of her nose-thumbing at her base.

Hope those corporate and AIPAC contributions were worth it HRC, they cost you the nomination.

[Muzza]

19. I did too but our "friends" here won't!

[cali]

26. Why should we? And what does it matter, anyway whether you

or I like it? It'a all about undecided voters. Do you think they'll like it?

[Muzza]

63. It depends...

Obviously some will and some won't. I don't think we can generalize one way or the other. Some people connect with strong displays of emotion. Some people don't. It just depends...It works for me. But it may not work for the next person. I guess the point is this - why should she have to conceal her anger if that's how she really feels? What's the big deal with getting a bit heated? People act like noone ever gets angry in their day to day lives. It's not real.

[cali]

107. we can extrapolate. She's lost voters each time she's gone

negative. Odds are she'll lose more than she'll gain with this gambit. And sorry, I was taught from the time I was quite a small child that there are times when it is NOT OK to show your feelings and not OK to display anger.

[robbedvoter]

45. And we should always take advice frop the opposition - notice the "nice"

Dem convention in 2004 as prescribed by the MSM!

[From The Left]

29. Mean Isn't Tough

It's mean. Hillary has revealed herself to be mean. Like a junkyard dog who is taunted by her owners.

If the American people wanted tough and female, they would've nominated Chyna Doll.

[Tennessee Gal]

34. Mean? Sexist much?

[cali]

39. LOL!!!

What a stinking pile. Calling someone mean is not sexist. Cut the crapola.

[From The Left]

43. Agreed

No wonder Hillary is getting her ass handed to her. Her supporters aren't very bright.

[Tennessee Gal]

60. Oh? How many men candidates have you heard called mean?

[cali]

108. Bob Dole was repeatedly referred to as mean

as has John McCain. Try again.

[From The Left]

40. You're a broken record

Bump

[flordehinojos]

36. yes ... i did too.

Bravo Hillary. so many people are saying toughness gets you no where but then they would also be saying the same thing if you were to offer up your other cheek for them to slap and spit on. they are doing it whatever you do. whether they are blacks who want to see a black president elected, as demonstrated very plainly by Donna Brazille (arms and legs kicking up in the stage while Dick Gregory spoke of Bill Clinton's blackness not being a blackness at all because neither he, nor chelsea, nor you had ever been stopped at an intersection just for the heck of it because your skins are not black)and as demonstrated further by Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and so many other black activists during the tavis smiley black state of the union this weekend in new orleans (while commendations have to go out to sheilah jackson lee who was very contained during this whole affair and kept talking about getting back to the agenda, your agenda, hillary, only to have tavis smiley point to jackson-lee that her, "girl-friend": meaning you, would soon be appearing on the stage at the event--and then having to plead with those who stayed to listen to you to show their "respect" for you), or whether they are republicans passing for democrats so as to get obama on the ticket so that come the g.e. they will revert back to the mccain ticket and the republican hold on government.

yes, your toughness is good hillary. truth is always good. people call tough people "bitches" but never mind that, they would figure out whatever name they would want to impose on you so as to diminish your light and diminish your work ... and the truth here hillary that they, the obamanites, the blacks, and the republicans are the ones who have played a fast one on you, first by calling what you accurately reported as the need for martin luther king Jr. and lyndon johnson to work together to get civil rights laws passed, then by calling bill clinton's comments ont he jesse jackson l984 and l988 south carolina ballot, "racist" and then, by having the media's constant beating of the drum against you, your record, and your family while all the time they were building up a myth out of a man-child who is no soothsayer, no great leader, and one who more than anything else on this earth would want his white side to be the side of his blood that would have been accepted rather than the black side of his blood.

yes. get tough hillary and not because the man is black but because the man is a liar, a manipulator, a say one thing when it is convenient and change it to another when it is not. such is his emotional make up and emotional make-ups have no colors, they just have ligth and they have darkness. obama's campaign is filled with the darkside of no truth telling.

[robbedvoter]

44. You better believe it! She'll be attacked no metter what - she'd better land her

blows in for good measure. It's been the mellowest campaign ever up to that point and they were crying fowl for imaginary offenses. It's not like you get badges of merit for good behavior in politics (notice Moveon). Just energize your base and go for it!

[bowens43]

49. What she showed us is that she's in full melt down.

The end is near for her and she, like everyone else , knows it. What we are seeing is a last desperate and very misguided attempt by Hillary to resurrect her dead campaign. What she has shown us with her screeching and mindless attacks on Obama is that she doesn't get it and she is not fit to be the POTUS.

[From The Left]

66. I almost feel sorry for her

But since Hillary voted for the Iraq war and continues to lie about it, she's getting what she deserves.

[Tennessee Gal]

86. "Screeching?"

[greguganus]

51. Tough? She's a loose cannon who wants her finger on the button. No thanks! n/t

[tyne]

56. Tough?

Acting like a bitch equals toughness?

Excuse me?

[Tennessee Gal]

58. Oh, the "b" word. There it is.

[durrrty libby]

62. "Excuse me?" There is NO excuse for you.

[Political Heretic]

65. ***This is an Obamite Police Action*** There's no place for the B word here. Grow up.

[Tennessee Gal]

84. Now Hillary is a loose cannon?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Obama had one year experience in the Senate before announcing his candidacy for the President. Just how are you able to determine that he is ready for that position?

[greguganus]

88. She went all bi-polar on Obama's ass.

From kissy to hissy to pissy in 24 hours. Maybe if she had been this "tough" with Bill we wouldn't of had to see him go through his impeachment.

[Tennessee Gal]

93. Now she is bi-polar.

[DDQ]

57. Hillary has strength!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tennessee Gal]

59. Yes, she does. I applaud her for it.

[Political Heretic]

64. If she had showed herself as tough, it would have been great.

She needs to do that - its her only play left, the third and long hail mary pass. Go on the offensive, etc.

But instead, what we got was something that reeks of desperation, looked downright schizophrenic after the multiple faces and messages we've seen her try to display, changing daily. It came off in all the wrong ways - petty, personal, ironic given the subject of her complaint, an overreaction, unprofessional - but mostly tactically planned, poorly executed and desperate, desperate, desperate.

I watched her and thanked god for the gift he just handed Obama. If she thinks she's now got the edge in the next debate, she is in for one hell of a surprise. All Obama has to do is not engage, diffuse and make light of her ridiculousness as "political silliness" and hell - he'll even be able to get away with playing the victim, while she will not be able to do the same, because she's committed herself to offense.

She can't change course now without looking even more confused and in disarray. She has to go into the debate with both guns blazing and its far, far too late for that to work - especially with the revolving faces of the Clinton campaign, it only makes it look that much more like its completely over.

I cannot wait for the debate now. Obama wins by simply not losing.

[Tennessee Gal]

68. Your interpretation only and you are welcome to it.

[Political Heretic]

72. It's not my interpretation only - but there are more than one interpretations out there.

Yours is another.

[Tennessee Gal]

82. Yes, you are correct.

[Political Heretic]

106. In the words of Nick Nolte:

It's not necessary for you to tell me that you think I'm correct.... we'll just assume it. :)


(I'm just kidding.... its early, I have graduate classes in an hour and I haven't been to bed yet, and I lost my coffee mug!!!)

[Avalux]

67. Not tough. She has shown she has no integrity and will do anything to win.

If she was going after Obama in an intelligent manner with legitimate information, then I might say she's strong. She's dishing dirt and lies and every time she opens her mouth she sounds like a scolding parent (directed at voters). I'ts horrible.

[Tennessee Gal]

70. Did you do any research?

I doubt it.

[Political Heretic]

74. I did.

According to factcheck.org her accusations are exaggerated. Their analysis of the mailers describes them in the same what it has described all mailings from both sides -- as providing heavy spin and subjective interpretation to the facts, mostly through omissions, but not lieing.

That's not exactly new. That's Clinton politics, Obama politics, and the politics of every other candidate that runs for office. John Edward's mailers were factchecked in the same way and found to do what all CAMPAIGN persuasive mailers do - present only the evidence that helps, and put those facts in the best possible subjective interpretation you can.

I guess Hillary should be welcomed to the NFL.

[Avalux]

76. Don't insult me. n/t

[not_too_L8]

110. Facts are insults?

Fact check.org

A direct-mail piece sent to voters by the Clinton campaign twists Obama’s words and gives a false picture of his proposals:

It says he "wants to raise Social Security taxes by a trillion dollars," a big distortion. Obama has said a “good option” would be to apply Social Security payroll taxes to incomes over $97,500 a year, but that would only affect taxes paid by 6.5 percent of individuals and couples. And he hasn’t formally proposed such a move anyway.


The Clinton mailer says Obama has "no plan" for a moratorium on foreclosures such as the one Clinton has proposed. That’s true, but Obama has his own plan for homeowner relief. The mailer leaves the impression that Obama has "no plan" at all, which is false.


It says Obama "voted for Dick Cheney's energy bill that gives huge tax breaks to oil companies," another distortion. By the time Congress passed the 2005 energy bill, it raised taxes on the oil industry more than it decreased them and also contained billions for alternative fuels research and subsidies for energy-efficient buildings and vehicles.

[shayes51]

81. She is tough!

[NC_Nurse]

85. I already knew she was tough. She points out what she's been through all

the time. :boring:

What I'm surprised by is how tone deaf she has turned out to be.

[Tennessee Gal]

89. Oh, so experience puts you to sleep.

But rhetoric with much less experience attracts your support.

[NC_Nurse]

94. If that's the way you want to frame it, you go right ahead.

Most "experienced" politicians know when a theme isn't working.
Tone deaf is not a winning formula.

[Tennessee Gal]

96. That is the way YOU framed it.

[NC_Nurse]

100. I didn't say that experience was boring.

I said that the "tough" meme was boring and not working. The last time I heard people drawn to her
was at the end of the debate when she was gracious and graceful. Then she turns around and goes
negative. It just doesn't seem productive to me.

[Tennessee Gal]

101. Go back and look at your own post when you used the snooze smilie.

[Greyskye]

123. but we knew that...

...she was tone deaf. We've heard her singing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZ_gXCHaMw

:evilgrin:

:hide:

[Vinca]

87. There's a fine line between tough and nutjob. She crossed it. nt

[Tennessee Gal]

90. Now she is a nutjob. Because she spoke up for herself.

:eyes:

[JohnnyLib2]

92. Kick. Funny and ironic sentences by HRC

Come to think of it, I'd like to kick in some other directions these days.....

[Mass]

95. She just mocked half of the Democratic electorate, so she may be tough, but it is a pretty stupid

move.

[Tennessee Gal]

97. Now she is stupid.

[greguganus]

98. Glad you agree with all of our assessments. n/t

[Mass]

99. Listen, if you think that mocking half of what would be her base in the GE is smart, good for you.

I just heard what she said yesterday and I cannot see that as a smart move. It reeks of desperation.

[Tennessee Gal]

102. She was mocking Obama.

Obama supporters are not her base, and most likely they are not the base of the Democratic party.

[Mass]

104. She will need Obama's supporters to win the GE if she is the nominee. And she was definitively

mocking them. Not to say that most of them are lifelong Democrats (contrarily to her).

[Tennessee Gal]

109. And Obama will need her supporters.

[bigtree]

114. right, because criticizing Obama is the same as criticizing all Americans

:eyes:

[Raffi Ella]

111. Me too.

I wish she'd done this all along.

[bigtree]

113. I love it

she rattled some cages

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

115. She Is Finally Getting Tough Isn't She. I Like It Too, But It Might Be Too Late.

Originally, that toughness may have kept Obama from ever reaching the rockstar icon status he now holds. Now that he's there, it might be far too late for strength like this to have any affect, and it can be more likely to backfire. We'll have to see what happens.

And as a pre-emptive reply to any of the fanatical, sexist, out of their minds, rabid, ignorant, closed minded, vitriolic, immature, petty, and irrational type obama supporters that read this (not the good ones); go fuck yourselves. :hi:

[Cameron27]

116. I loved it!

[Az_lefty]

118. Hillary showed she is desperate, not tough...

this whole thing with her is becoming embarrassing.

[Tennessee Gal]

120. Tough.

I am pleased.

[Ino]

121. Well, there is "assertive tough"...

and then there's "bully tough." I've had enough of bullies in Washington.

[IndianaGreen]

122. Hillary showed she is no different from a Freeper

and that she would rather destroy the Democratic Party for its failure to anoint her as Presidential nominee.