Has GD Primaries been invaded by FReepers?

[Seabiscuit]

Poll question: Has GD Primaries been invaded by FReepers?

Is there a Republican conspiracy afoot to disrupt our primary season?

Last week someone posted an apparently well-researched article about how right-wing talk show hosts are encouraging their Republican listeners to (1) change their registration to Democrat in time to vote in our primaries and caucuses in states with "closed primaries", and (2) to vote as Democrats in "open primary" states where party affiliation doesn't matter, and (3) to vote for Barack Obama. Further, the article stated that indeed a significant number have done so to date, having two effects: (1) it is boosting Obama's candidacy so that he has come from behind to take the lead over Hillary Clinton, and (2) it is artificially inflating the number of people in each stating voting for Democrats and artificially deflating the number of people in each state voting for Republicans. The rationale given by these talk show hosts (and I've heard some of them say this myself) is that John McCain is a dirty "liberal" and "traitor" to the Republican "cause", so (1) they'd rather see a weak Democrat win and screw up for four years, making it possible for a strong Republican who can unite their base to take the White House in 2008; and besides (2) they truly believe McCain has a better chance of beating Obama than of beating Hillary.

Simlarly, the evidence seems to be piling higher and deeper that freepers have been invading liberal websites such as DU, for the soul purpose of causing havoc and disunity in the Democratic Party. They do so by posting blind faith worship posts about Obama and calling Hillary every name in the book, when not just smearing her or whining about her supposedly dirty tactics, etc., etc.

I personally have already come to the conclusion that all of this is true. I have amassed an "ignored" list for the first time in my life of not just dozens, but almost 500 posters from one forum alone, this one, during the past 2 months. I am absolutely convinced most of them are freepers here to do nothing but disrupt. They write like freepers, they employ the same illogic as freepers, and they flame like freepers when cornered and they tend to have low post counts like freepers, most with less than 500 posts, many with less than 50, and some with less than 20. Many have been tombstoned by the mods.

(On Edit): This is a new Rovian Repuke tactic that I for one haven't witnessed before. Remember, for a freeper, lying and deceit come easy, especially when by doing so, it promotes the desired end of Republican power forever. And any means justifies that end for them. What better way to do so than to invade and disrupt our primary season, turning democrats against each other like never before, with a level of nastiness that will not soon be forgotten - in hopes that it will make otherwise civil Obama supporters nastier and nastier, and that it will so infuriate and disgust supporters of any other candidate, not just Hillary supporters, that they stay home in droves and refuse to vote next November in protest.

So, NOW to the poll question: DO YOU THINK GD PRIMARIES HAS SUFFERED A FREEPER INVASION?

[HeraldSquare212]

1. I think a lot of the crudely sexist remarks over the weekend were freeper work.

No matter what happens when they post stuff like that, they win from the discord it causes.

[rox63]

2. Of course it has

And it happens all the time. We infiltrate their site, they infiltrate ours. Business as usual...

[liberalnurse]

15. I may take a peek

to gage their frame of reference and never post.

[rox63]

31. Be sure to disinfect your computer afterwards

Those freeper cooties are nasty. :scared:

[MadBadger]

3. Ignore.

[psychopomp]

4. DU has been crawling with freepers for years

Sometimes they have an impact but not usually. In a high-stakes campaign season it is wise to assume that there are trolls posting in higher numbers than usual.

[Maddy McCall]

5. I do. A year ago I would have laughed at this notion. In 2004 I would have said "No."

But there is a two-decade-long seething hatred of the Clintons among freepers, and what better way to express it than to come to a website that allows anti-Hillary people to post anything they want and get away with it.

They just put on an Obama avatar, come in, and post nothing positive about Obama--all rightwing smears against the Clintons.

These people are Hillary haters, not Obama supporters...

It's easy to distinguish the real Obama supporters from the Hillary Haters.

The Obama supporters who don't stoop to rightwing smears have my respect. The ones who post nothing BUT rightwing smears against the Clintons have my disdain--and they label themselves as what they are.

[Bongo Prophet]

25. I agree with that, Maddy. There are certain "tells" that slip on occasion.

But, seriously, go to h=44 and tell me that many of those are not right wingers pretending as well.

I could list many of the tells here, but won't, for obvious reasons.
I could also give some hints on how to trace phrases back to sources with some degree of accuracy, but won't for the same reasons.

I will say that Karl rove's method often is to plant something and then accuse the other side.
From debate tapes, notes, bugs - planted news stories and rumors - I have seen much in my time.
I know the person who was hired to search Rove's office in Texas for bugs and found nothing, the day before Rove waved a listening device around, claiming to have evidence it was planted by dem operatives. The day before a debate with Mark White. See the movie "bush's Brain" for more info on that. They used FBI agent to intimidate witnesses and more. Dirty stuff.

I know a whole lot more, but will stop there.
for obvious reasons...;)


to claim it as just on one side is far too simple.
And since you know the Parlock incident, you know what a bank shot looks like.
It would help if you schooled others in the Clinton camp about that.
Maybe each side will listen to their own.

[UALRBSofL]

54. Maddy I think there are freepers as well.

But it wont do any good. Pretty much DU isn't representative of the general public and I don't believe the freepers will change voters minds on DU that will change the election results.

[Rageneau]

6. I'm more concerned that the Clinton-hate virus has infected formerly sane people.

[Seabiscuit]

7. Ditto - your post inspired me to edit my OP.

[liberalnurse]

8. Absolutely YES!

Additionally, why do you think Huckabee remains in the "empty-wasted republican race" ? So he can rally the strong Ohio repugs to cross over and vote Obama. They are all on the same ballot.

This is the Real Truth Democrats. Please think this through. I stake my life on this fact...we are being scammed. Obama is clueless and sincere...and wants to do the job but he is the carrot.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. I Can't Vote.

I so badly want to say yes, but I'm not quite certain that's the explanation.

I don't think they're all freepers, and I'm not even convinced most of them are. I think we've been invaded by a lot of young clueless people who use their hearts over their heads, and are coming off as just really really stupid. I think that makes them look like freepers because, well, freepers are also just really really stupid.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

10. You've got like 500 people on ignore

So how do you know what's going on at DU?

[Forkboy]

11. Not really. I see two sides that for the most part have lost all perspective, that's all.

Not to say there are none. I'm sure there is. But sadly, I think it's mostly hardcore partisans of the two choices that can't help themselves and have no qualms with ACTING like a freeper if they feel it'll help their cause.

[southern_dem]

13. exactly

Both sides have Freeper-like characters. It will settle down when the primaries are over, they will either leave or be removed. Either way, it'll get better.

[Perry Logan]

12. I almost hope so. It's hard to think so many of us could sink so low.

[Seabiscuit]

14. Have I been called a "Hillbot" by any of the 8 "ignoreds" yet?

[lumpy]

16. Wouldn't surprise me a bit. Such vehemence is freeperish.

Ugh

[Seabiscuit]

19. Borgs 10. Normals 5.

The "ignoreds" are outnumbering other replies to this thread by a margin of 2 to 1.

[Seabiscuit]

21. OTOH,

Normals are outvoting Borgs by a margin of 8 to 2.

[Why Syzygy]

17. Yes and so far 11 have voted in your poll.

I don't have a problem with Independents and GOPers voting for a Democrat. I encourage it and think we will see plenty of that in the GE UNLESS Hillary is the nominee. They will not vote for her.

[bunnies]

18. I think its safe to expect a negative reaction from people who've been mocked and insulted.

First by supporters, then by surrogates, now by the candidate herself. You cant keep poking a bear with a stick and be surprised if it takes a swipe at you. You know. This might be a internet message board but as far as I know, the posters are actual people. Actual people with actual feelings and emotions. Just MHO.

[quakerboy]

20. No

Because there is a difference between invaded and infiltrated.

[Seabiscuit]

22. So...

You haven't "invaded", you've merely "infiltrated"?

How special.

Next you're going to say Bush didn't "invade" Iraq, he merely "infiltrated" it.

:rofl:

[quakerboy]

36. If you think I am a freep

Invader, show it. wtf.

[Seabiscuit]

41. I don't know if you're a freep yet.

But there are already some grounds for suspicion, even with so little information from you:

Your low post count (125) is a key indicator of freephood. Strike one.

And you're the only one to vote "no" in this poll besides the freeps I already have on "ignore". Strike two.

I'll give you a pass on the "invaded" vs. "infiltrated" nonsense. There are some genuine Dems here who also just happen to be obnoxious like that.

[quakerboy]

44. So new = bad?

low post count... So the fact that I am not on a quest to run up my post count is now a bad thing? Sometimes people are just new. Ive been reading things here for nearly a year, and recently decided to put in my own 2 cents occasionally.

And I explained my no vote. I dont agree with the terminology.

I'll see ya round. Maybe you will give me some credence when I stick around after the election is over. I think this is proving a rough time for everyone.

[Seabiscuit]

48. I didn't say that, did I?

It's just that when it comes to freepers, they almost always have a low post count. The ones I've seen tombstoned have all had low post counts.

It depends on how people behave when they arrive here. The well-behaved ones usually get a big "Welcome to DU" from a lot of people before their post count reaches 50.

It seems to me, however, that your objection to "terminology" is rather vapid and not a serious basis for voting either way. It comes across as the kind of feeble excuse a freeper might use to avoid confronting the real issues raised in the OP.

If I see you around after the nomination is over we may be friends by then.

[quakerboy]

49. Sounds like a plan

You seem like the kinda guy I'd like to have a beer with. Maybe I will vote for you...

My terminology.. I think an invasion requires a pretty high count of invaders. I see a fair number of the angry and the ill advised, and a reasonable bit of stupid and immature here, but I think the true freepers here are relatively few in number.

I hope to see you then in a much better spirit of peace. Cheers to after the primaries.

[Seabiscuit]

52. I'll buy the first round...

Apparently our semantic difference boil down to one of perception. Where I see an invasion (a very high number of disruptors compared to any time since I first discovered DU 5 years ago, and all concentrated in this one forum), you see only a "fair number"). Maybe I've been spending too much time here. It looks like 82% of the responders to this poll agree with me.

[rug]

23. Either that or they got lost on the way to the Carrottop birthday party.

[Bongo Prophet]

24. Yes, thee are infiltrators. No, they are not all on one side, but on both.

Working to divide us.

It is a shame that each side will only see their POV, but that is the weakness in human psychology that the right is so adept at manipulating.
Only by dividing us and suppressing votes can they win.

Your past outrages about an 18 yr old not being a "real" teenage mother is an indicator that you are too biased to be objective. So I do not hope to convince you, but I have been watching these guys for a few decades now. They're tricky little bastards.

[ginantonic40]

26. How about a link to the 'well-researched article'

because on the face of it I would put little credence to 'significant number(s)' voting. As far as posters here...who knows. Somebody with 2000 posts that registered on Jan 26, 2008 take with a grain of salt. People who post on a site dedicated to promotion of a Democratic agenda and vow they'd vote for a right of center Republican if their perferred candidate doesn't make the cut I take with a grain of salt. People who get vaporous over some percieved code word I take with a grain of salt.

[Seabiscuit]

42. If I could locate it I'd be happy to post the link.

But I didn't save it, and I've never been able to negotiate the DU search function. It just never works for me.

[uppityperson]

58. Is this the one? (link here...)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4771862

[mmonk]

27. We Obama supporters are "the enemy within" eh?

I'm going to leave this cess pool for awhile before I post something that will get me banned.

[Seabiscuit]

43. Not all of you. I think I made that clear in the OP.

[CitizenRob]

28. If they aren't singing in the choir, or preaching to it, they must be freepers.

Whatever.

[conservdem]

30. I hope I have not made your's or anyone's ignore list, but

I admit I have been tough on Clinton. I first supported Biden and now support Obama.

I admit I may vote for McCain if HC gets the nomination.

In any event, I do not think there are many Freeper's invading here. (I know I attend all there meetings and the have not spoken of it. Just kidding.)

Which talk show hosts have you head telling Republicans to vote for Obama?

[creeksneakers2]

34. Rash Limbaugh is telling listeners to vote for Hillary

There's lots of talk on the right about voting in Democratic primaries but they don't agree on which candidate to vote for. So they probably cancel each other out. Either way though, the righties can claim that the candidate that won wasn't legitimate.

[conservdem]

37. I listen to him a fair amount and have not heard him say that.

Someone asked Hanity today and he did not give a decisive answer. Have you heard any other than Rush?

[creeksneakers2]

51. Callers to Rush's show say they have been urged to vote Obama

The two sides have slogans. Rush says, "Keep her in so we can win." The other side says, "Keep her out and remove all doubt."

[Seabiscuit]

46. All of the right-wing AM radio talk show hosts broadcast in San Diego

have been telling their listners to vote for Obama because they perceive him as weak, even against McCain, whom they despise almost as much as Hillary. They advocate that it would be better to have someone like Obama in the White House for 4 years, subject him to constant attack, watch him wither and fuck up, then beat him handily in 2008, than to have McCain there who they say will "betray" the Republican agenda, and within 4 short years destroy the party for decades, only to see decades of Democratic rule beginning in 2008. They actually believe that shit.

Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, Rick Roberts, Bill O'Reilly, and Tony Snow to name a few.

Since Clear Channel removed Air America from the San Diego region I occasionally listen to right-wing AM hate radio in the car just to see what those creeps are plotting about this election.

[Megahurtz]

32. Probably.

Where's all the high traffic coming from? :shrug:

[kristopher]

33. I think you left out two important points

First is the collapse of the right. There is a well documented shift away from the republican party. Part of that shift is a loss of influence of their media machine - look at their failure to install Romney as proof of concept.

I think the exhortations from the talking heads are an attempt to do several things but mostly it masks the exodus away from the party and gives the remaining kooaid drinkers something to hang their beliefs on - that is always a key element of their mind control strategy - it is what people are talking about when they speak of the alternate realities that have characterized the logic of the right in the past few years. If the dittoheads think the numbers they are seeing (dems are turning out in vastly greater numbers than the repukes) are a contrived event, they are less inclined to follow the crowd.

The second point is that you probably wont read this because I have been critical of Hillary. So I'll take for granted that you don't get the benefits of open and honest dialogue. I personally don't think that serves the Dem party well, I think such behavior indicates that the second main thrust of their strategy is succeeding. You don't have confidence in your own tribe.

There may be some fakes, but they as nothing compared to the genuine crossovers. Look at the polls from a year ago regarding the shift away from the repubs. Do you think those are contrived?

Look at the criticisms leveled by David Kuo. Do you think that was contrived?

Look at the failure to install Romney. Do you think that was contrived?

All of those are evidence of a party that has failed it's supporters.

What do you expect the reaction of those failed supporters to be?

[Patsy Stone]

35. Yes

And I'm amazed how often I now know the Republicans' latest move a day or so before they make it. :eyes:

[Capn Sunshine]

38. Certainly there's refernce to doing just that at other boards

many so- called stealth players are here specifically to disrupt. According to their crowing, one of them is even a Mod.

No link available without betraying my stealth freeper profile

[Skittles]

39. freepers and DUers BEHAVING like freepers

yes INDEED :(

[sueragingroz]

40. I'll admit that I've been posting more lately

And that's because of the political season. I've been in and around these boards for years and the behaviour that we have seen on this board is strangely reminiscent of the run up to the 2004 election... at least on RRMB. I think that there is a common MO for sure.

And there is a bit of that mania that accompanies something new and exciting... and there's the flush of youth... kids who are excited about democracy and a bit over-zealous at times...

I'd say that it's a rather potent mix...

And I also agree that the animosity that it has stirred up won't be forgotten quickly.

Whatever happens in this race for the nomination - don't forget where the real battle is - CONGRESS.

Whatever happens, even if you can't bring yourself to vote for the "other", please make sure that you do what you can to get your local congressperson/senator elected. No matter who ends up being president (and i'm sadly thinking that it may be kookoo head) make sure that there is a Democratic Congress on hand with an overwhelming majority to keep those checks and balances going!

[Seabiscuit]

47. Who's "kookoo head"? McCain?

This guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5BMVmOWzfk

[Swamp Rat]

45. And alien lizards... I just saw a UFO take off!!!

[Beacool]

50. I just heard the biggest Dick on TV, Morris that is........

urging Republican and Independent viewers in TX to go out and vote for Obama. He was saying it on Hannity's crappy show, while Colmes shook his head in wonderment.


:puke:

[mam]

53. Unfortunately I agree

I have been a long time reader and really have never really posted. I have been shocked at the change in the DU over the last few months and have had several discussions with friends about my belief that "those from the other side" were making attempts to disrupt and divide. Sadly, I think they have been successful. I used to read 3 or 4 times a day, checking on the latest news. Now I am seeking other, healthier sites to go to. Any suggestions?

[sandyj999]

55. Of Course They're Stirring the Pot

That's what they do best and by reading a lot on here today they are being successful. Hasn't anyone ever heard of "divide and conquer"? It's happening right here if we allow it and then we can see four more years of Republican lies and more war. And personally I'm getting too old for that, I have seen enough.

[Seabiscuit]

56. The Limbaughs of hate radio are doing the same thing now to Kucinich that they've been

doing to Hillary: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x126408

[Seabiscuit]

57. Someone who's been away for awhile sees the stark difference in DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4781316&mesg_id=4781316