Voting for McCain if Clinton doesn't win the nomination.

[Raven]

I can't understand this. I can't get my mind around this. A very, very dear friend of mine...a feminist, a very intelligent woman...actually a brilliant woman...(Will, you know who this is) told me tonight that she was thinking of voting for John McCain if Hillary Clinton didn't get the nod.

I suggested to her that she consider what she would have to explain to her young neice some years from now...about how women lost the control over their bodies...about why people private phone conversations were being tapped...all with another Republican in office. She said that she didn't think McCain would be that bad...I asked her if she really wanted to gamble with the next generation.

I don't think I convinced her tonight but I think I made her think. God help us if there are too many of her out there!

[Oleladylib]

1. A good democratic friend is voting McCain if Obama is the candidate..

and I'll get flamed if I tell you why.

[saracat]

6. Actually, I know quite a few here in AZ that have told me exactly that.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. Well, duh, it's Arizona.

Of course McInsane is going to do well there. He's a "native son". If these people are Dem activists however, they deserve to be stripped of the title for saying such a thing.

[saracat]

29. Actually McCain isn't well liked in AZ.The Repugs say they won't vote for him.

DUH yourself.And they aren't activists but they are high efficacy Dems.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. Then they're high-efficacy assholes

I'm in Phoenix too and am well aware of the sentiment toward McCain. He won our state's primary handily despite the problems he has with the GOP base.

[saracat]

42. So anyone who doesn't like Obama is an asshole? We are Dems.We don't walk in lockstep.Sorry.

And wether they are "assholes" or not, I predict more Dems will crossover and vote for McCain than GOP will for Obama.John Edwards would have gotten their vote.Hillary would have gotten the GOP women.Seriously but Obama, not so much.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

45. If they vote for McCain they are.

And obviously you haven't been paying attention to what is happening in open primaries across the country if you honestly believe HRC has more crossover appeal than Obama. Why does he keep winning resoundingly among independents and crossover Republicans?

[saracat]

49. I wasn't talking about the whole country ! I was talking about my district and some specific folks.

And as for those other votes, I think it is possible they are voting for Obama because they feel they can beat him in the south.And primary votes mean nothing in the GE.Whatever.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

55. Independents want to beat Obama in the South? Huh?

I think you are talking about the infinitessimally small number of Republicans who cross over as a "strategy". Only problem with your thesis is that Rush has been telling his listeners to go for Hillary because she's easier to beat. So I'm guessing the morans are cancelling each other out.

[saracat]

59. Dunno.Don't really care.

[ChazII]

51. Maricopa county here

which county are you in?

[saracat]

53. Maricopa

[saracat]

62. BYW, In my part of Maricopa the GOP turnout for McCain was

better than all the Hillary, Obama , and Edwards votes combined and they don't like the guy! Go figure.

[bigbrother05]

66. Any Dem that votes McCain will be in line behind the DINOs in DU heaven

While there are GOPs that will cross over, it's the indies he'll need and they are flocking in.

[ChazII]

58. If Fred hadn't dropped out

before Super Tuesday, do you think McCain would have won so easily? It is a moot point now but I am curious.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

61. Probably. Mittens gave him a bit of a challenge because of the big LDS population here

But he only ended up with like 23% or so. The rabid wingnuts were hailing Fred as their savior but that fizzled out quickly. Despite all the bloviating by the local gasbags, McCain was raising money hand over fist here. Even back when they were writing obituaries about his campaign.

[saracat]

67. Yup in our CD, the McCain vote was bigger than the combined totals of Hillary , Obama and Edwards!

And yet many don't like the guy.

[JI7]

40. then why does he keep getting elected to the Senate

[saracat]

43. Because until Jim Pederson pour4ed his money into his senate race and the DEm Party before that

we never ran anyone for the higher offices that had any money.We virtually never ran against him.

[LibraLiz1973]

21. I know many people who are doing the same thing

I may not vote for either, but I sure wont vote McCain.

[Alexander]

2. Most who say that crap here are probably just Republican operatives.

[floridablue]

10. I don't think so. I hear it every day from the over 50 crowd.

[michaz]

24. I am over 50 and voting for Obama!

[Alexander]

I said here. As in "On DU".

I'm sure some people feel this way in real life, but on DU most who say that are just trolls.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

46. In Florida. Enough said.

[OhioChick]

3. Does She Have a Problem With Race, or What? n/t

[saracat]

14. Most that I know think he is sexist and don't like his healthcare plan.

You asked.I don't like him but for more than those reasons.

[TeamJordan23]

18. Do your friends like McCain's healthcare plan?

If there was one.

[saracat]

37. Haven't said.But they will support Hillary.I can't argue much with them but advice them to

at least vote the downline.I don't have a dog in the fight if Obama is on the ballot. I may write in Edwards if Obama is the nominee.I have a really hard time voting for O.but won't vote McCain.

[angie_love]

48. McCain doesn't have a healthcare plan BTW. I read that he hadn't thought of any policies

yet. His main theme is "vote for me or terrorists will get you"

[saracat]

57. Hey, I'm not voting for him!

[angie_love]

65. It was in response to the healthcare question. Geez calm down.

[saracat]

69. Not to worry. I'm not upset.After all, I know he doesn't have a healthcare plan!

:)

[Cha]

72. Yeah, well..A lot can happen between now

and November.

[gateley]

4. What were her reasons? (Just curious) Thanks. nt

[Oleladylib]

8. Interestingly enough..YOU assume it's a she...WRONG!

[eileen_d]

15. The OP's friend is a she.

The whole phenomenon sounds like a good topic for an anthropology thesis.

[gateley]

30. Hello, Oleladylib -

What the fuck is your problem?

I "assumed" the OP was referring to a woman because the OP wrote:

.a feminist, a very intelligent woman...actually a brilliant woman...(Will, you know who this is) told me tonight that she was thinking of voting for John McCain if Hillary Clinton didn't get the nod.

You're irritating beyond words. Carry on.

[dionysus]

5. i really like your post.

k&r

[NC_Nurse]

7. A lot of people are really mad right now. I think that when the primary is

over for a while, people will calm down and think differently. I know I have felt upset with the Clinton camp
many times lately, but if she wins I'll get over it. ;-)

[goldcanyonaz]

9. I live in Arizona and there is a strong movement to vote McCain if Hillary isn't the nominee.

[Megahurtz]

63. You Must Be Kidding.

So these people would vote for a War-Mongering Anti-Abortionist instead of Obama??? :wtf:

Okay they must be brain-dead. Zoners. Too much sun and heat, too many spider bites or too many scorpion stings or something.

[goldcanyonaz]

68. Funny because McCain isn't very popular here anymore but Obama is even less so.

[NanceGreggs]

11. "She said that she didn't think McCain would be that bad..."

I remember people saying that about someone else eight years ago. Isn't the answer obvious by now?

[LibraLiz1973]

22. People still aren't getting that.....

[EmilyAnne]

12. There is still a long way to go to the GE. Let's hope that, eventually, the nastiness of SOME

(not all) of Obama's supporters will simmer down and the hurt feelings of the HRC supporters will heal. I understand your friend being hurt. Give her time, maybe?

[dsc]

13. Frankly some Obama supporters have made it all but impossible for me

to consider voting for him with anything remotely resembling joy. I can easily see feminist women totally disgusted over the double standard exhibited by blogs and others supporting him. I can't see voting for McCain but I can see such disgust that one would consider not voting at all.

[saracat]

16. Exactly.

[NastyRiffraff]

25. I hear you

I'll vote for Obama if he wins, but reluctantly. And I was really excited about this race, too. No more.

I can't stand Obama, but I admit he'll be marginally better than McCain. At least I hope he will be.

[Blue-Jay]

26. Boo fuckin' Hoo!

If you're going to base your GE vote on getting upset about what a few Obama supporters have said, then you're probably not the brightest person in the world.

[Lyric]

32. And telling people that they're stupid because

they're only human and have been deeply hurt by some of the bullshit here is really going to change their minds. :eyes:

Please keep in mind that the goal is to retain Democratic voters--not drive them further away because they're not "bright" enough. We need every vote we can get, so that it becomes infinitely harder to Diebold the general. A close general election is a potential disaster.

[Blue-Jay]

39. Sorry.

I thought that people vote on a candidate based upon issues and message, rather than crap posted by anonymous message board douchebags. I guess I was wrong, eh?

No matter. I'll still vote for Sen Clinton if she wins the nomination because she's much better than the alternative, and because I'm a fucking Democrat. I'm not gonna boo-hoo-hoo about some DU moron who said unkind things about my candidate. Fuck 'em.

[Lyric]

50. I agree, there are a lot of DU morons

and the vast majority of them IMHO are Freeper trolls out to sow discontent. Fuck THEM most especially. But if somebody's spending one of their three threads to speak out about how people are truly hurting over this mess, well, that's not really something most trolls would do. The hurting ones are the ones we need to try and help through it, you know? Because we want as many people as possible to stick around and hit the "D" come November.

And I'm sorry if I came across as unfairly rude. I have a bad habit of getting sarcastic too fast these days. GD-P PTSD I guess.

[dsc]

41. It isn't just DU

It is people who have supported him that are politicians and or journalists. I also said I would vote for him just not without joy. But it isn't my ox being gored it is feminist women's. I could see a woman refusing to vote for a candidate whose supporters suggest women are responsible when men stray (that was his wife who did that) to use one example.

[Oleladylib]

28. "HE" feels the same way and has NEVER VOTED REPUBLICAN..but will

if it's Obama..Dude is intelligent, informed,open minded and perceptive.

[AX10]

78. Maybe we should all write-in HRC to protest Obama.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. LOL

I heard somebody the other day that they were very upset about how sexist Obama supporters insufficiently criticized John McCain over his response to the "bitch" question at his presser, and therefore they're not going to vote for Obama.

:rofl:

[Ichingcarpenter]

36. They would rather vote for McCain for supporting a guy that called Hillary a Bitch

"How do we beat the bitch?" McCain's supporter asked him. And as you can see, it appears that after McCain joked about offering a "translation" of his supporter's query, he said:

"That's an excellent question."

Talking point memo:
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/11/full_video_mccain_says_supporters_bitch_query_about_hillary_is_an_excellent_question.php

McCain has repeatedly voted to deny low income women access to abortion care.
In the Senate, McCain voted anti-choice 113 out of 117 times!

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[AX10]

76. I will write-in Hillary.

This election has already been a disappointment.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

20. Problem is everyone is focusing on the other Dem Candidate instead

of McCain -- Hillary and Obama need to have a McBush bashing contest - whomever bashes hardest wins instead of the dirty bashing of the past week.

[aquarius dawning]

23. I have a hard core onservative friend who hates John McCain. He's voting for Hillary March 4th

My step father is pretty much a Republican too and he intends to ask for a Democratic ballot on March 4th and has stated that he will be voting for Hillary also. Deep down, they know that the bush legacy must end but it galls them to have to choose between a black man and a woman. I guess the lesser of the two evils (in their opinions) should be obvious.

[Oleladylib]

33. Interesting country we live in when we come right down to it!

There are concerns about CHANGE...and yes, the change being a black man or a woman president..People are wierd but when push comes to shove and the vote...

[dansolo]

27. Remind her how old Ginsberg and Souter are

The next president will most likely get to select 2, if not 3 Supreme Court justices. Then show her McCain's record on abortion issues.

[cali]

31. what nonsense. Anecdotes on DU are meaningless.

I, unfortunately know a slew of people that said they wouldn't vote for Hill if she was nominee. 7 out of 10 dems think highly of Obama compared to 6 out of 10 for Hillary. I'm not doubting your story, though clearly your friend is NOT brilliant, but the extrapolation here is absurd. No, it's more than that; it's stupid.

[Oleladylib]

35. well goody for you..hope you say the same in November.

You do realize that the vast majority of the voting population are NOT brilliant. It is a fact that people say one thing in the primary season but often end up voting differently.

[ginnyinWI]

38. this is what comes from divisive politics.

When Hillary attacks an opponent from her own party, this is the result. She's made the alternative to her seem too horrible to vote for. That's what's wrong here.

[dchill]

44. So - if Hillary doesn't win...

it's perpetual war? That makes so much sense, I'm going to consider voting for her! Or not.

[Honeycombe8]

47. Actually, there isn't much difference between McCain's and Clinton's positions...

on some of the major issues. Clinton voted FOR the Patriot Act, FOR the Iraq War, etc.

Some people who support both Dem. candidates feel the same way your friend does. If the Clintons end up winning by forcing delegates from Michigan, Florida, or using superdelegates to contravent the voter's choice, I would understand Obama's people voting for McCain or not voting at all.

It's their choice, I guess.

[Ichingcarpenter]

52. But with Women's rights McCain is a dinosaur as compared to Hillary

and these woman that would vote for McCain
if they didn't get their way
are not promoting anything that is feminist or democratic.

[Honeycombe8]

73. Women's rights...I see. You're probably right. But democratic? McCain is for democracy. nt

[avrdream]

54. Yeah, there's a lot of that going around.

McCain was the Repub I LEAST wanted to win the nomination because I think he can suck up a lot of independent votes. There is a real reason that the conservatives in the R party don't like him - that very same reason can appeal to D or I voters.

Unfortunately, continuing the war will cripple the U.S.

[aquarius dawning]

64. We haven't been hearing much news out of Iraq lately let alone bad news.

The political weather in November 2008 could be much different than the political weather in March 2008.

[merh]

56. You forgot to ask her how her niece would look in battle fatiques

with body armor.

100 years if need be .....

I don't want to see my toddler nieces and nephews serving in a war, not this war, not any war.

[bunnies]

60. Thats OK. I just read on DU "If not Clinton then Nader. Obama is not a Dem."

I dont know where the hell some people get their line of thinking. Its fucked. You can only do what you can do. Dont beat yourself up. You tried.

[apocalypsehow]

70. Few of the more, uh, fervent is the word I should use, HRC supporters tacitly admit

that they're A-Okay with a McCain administration if Senator Obama is the Democratic nominee this November.

For starters, they have come to loathe this, er, "arrogant" (read: "uppity") African-American man who has dared to derail the coronation. And then there's the fact that a McCain administration in 2009 leaves the door open for a Hillary nomination in 2012, and a second crack at it. As long as no more, er, "arrogant" interlopers get in her way a second time....

[Irishonly]

71. I Don't Get It

I was/am an Edwards supporter but I will vote for the nominee. I get frustrated at all of the negativity from both the Obama and Clinton camps. The SCOTUS is at stake and McCain making appointments gives me the heebie jeebies. Staying in Iraq is not an option either. With a democratic president we have a snowball's chance in July of getting some normalcy again.

[GarbagemanLB]

74. I can play this game! I have 20 friends who say they will vote for McCain if CLINTON wins!

[AX10]

75. I know of a woman (from the other side, Poland)..

who would never vote for a woman for any leadership role because "it's not their place".
Does that make you feel better?

[lastliberalintexas]

80. The Beaumont, TX paper had an incredibly insulting

article recently wondering where the white male vote would go after Edwards dropped out and talking about how some African American women are torn this election season because they have to choose between their race and gender. I mean, heaven forbid that a woman actually base her decision on actual issues- nope they're so simple they must vote for someone like them.


Anyway, in that article there was also a quote from a Black female Obama supporter who said she would not vote for Clinton because it was against the biblical role of women for them to be in leadership positions. Oy.

[book_worm]

77. If Obama is so bad how come he does so much better than Hillary in so many states against McCain?

[saracat]

81. Well, he hasn't actually "run" against McCain yet.so we don't really know.

[zulchzulu]

79. Good for her... actually she is not very brilliant if she'd vote for McCain

A feminist... very intelligent?

You have got to be kidding. She sounds like a bloviated ass.

[Beacool]

82. Your brilliant friend is far from the only one.

I've heard plenty of people say the same thing. Many consider McCain to be moderate and an honorable man. People who would have never supported a conservative may very well vote for McCain if they don't like the Democratic nominee. Now that Nader has entered the race some who may not vote for Obama, and may have had misgivings about voting for a Republican, have a third choice.

It will be interesting to see how all this pans out in November.

[Hieronymus]

83. Some shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[EFerrari]

84. My mom says she'd rather vote for McCain than Obama.

I don't understand that kind of acrimony. And, I've never known her to ever vote for a Republican. Ever.