Question....

[Aviation Pro]

...after Senator Obama is elected, how many of us will go out and get the hard science degrees necessary to fulfill his technology vision? The science deficit in the U.S. is at crisis levels at this point and if we want to take advantage of such emerging technologies such as nanotechnology, biofuels and advanced propulsion it's going to take more than hope.

So, are you going to continue hoping that someone else will pick up the slack or are you willing to do something concrete and real for the country?

For the record, I'm already in an emerging technology sector so my mantra is not, "Yes I can," but "I'm already here."

Flame away, have fun.

[gateley]

1. You bring up an excellent point - having the number of people able to

fill the positions.

I think it's doable, though - and I'm sure there are thousands who are willing to get the education if given the chance.

[Aviation Pro]

4. But are they willing to sacrifice....

...that's the real question. The chance and opportunity are there, but very few people are willing to make the sacrifices necessary. When I changed my career at the age of 40 I knew I was putting everything I cared about at enormous risk, but I knew the reward was greater than the risk. I haven't had a day of regret since I made that decision and I have enrichened not just myself but hundreds of others.

Let's see how many others are not afraid to fail.

[gateley]

11. Boy. Tough audience.

In these uncertain times, I'm not sure that people are ABLE to take such a risk, regardless of how much they might like to.

You're being unrealistic and a bit holier-than-thou expecting people to do just what you did to PROVE they care enough.

I would like to see education and programs offered that enabled people who CAN'T take the chance at this time to be able to have the opportunity to achieve what you did, and again, I have no doubt there would be countless Americans who would gladly take on the hard work and sacrifice to help our country move forward.

Be a little gentler, would you?

[Aviation Pro]

21. It's why I stuck to my guns on saying....

...that hope is not a method or strategy. Yes I'm tough, but for good reason. Integrity is measured by what you do when nobody is looking and right now I'm not in a gentle mood.

[aquarius dawning]

2. I gave up on manufacturing 15 years ago and started studying biology, chemistry, zoology, dendrology

icthyology, physiology, etc. People who are hoping to eke out a living in the next century as a factory worker are setting themselves up for a future of hardship and despair.

[Aviation Pro]

6. Sounds like you're working with elasmobranchs....

...fine field. Let us know why they never get cancer.

[aquarius dawning]

36. Nope. I work with people actually. And sharks do get cancer. William Lane was FOS.

[NastyRiffraff]

3. I hope John Edwards will push his "College for Everybody"

He should be in the administration in some capacity. AG? special (independent) advisor?

[ossman]

5. Edwards wont be shit in an Obama admin unless he endorses

[NastyRiffraff]

15. Edwards won't be a yes man in any administration

I'm glad he hasn't endorsed anyone. He can keep his independence that way.

[Aviation Pro]

7. And so this thread heads to oblivion....

...seems like everyone is more interested in the "put up your dukes," posts.

Sad.

[Forkboy]

17. One, you told people to flame away.

So you had to know you were writing something that might be a wee bit edgy, right?

Two, your post comes across as a little bit holier than thou.

So, what did you really expect?

It's too bad because you make an very interesting point. :shrug:

[thevoiceofreason]

8. Actually an excellent idea to enhance the college help

If you go into a science, or engineering, etc., you get $10,000 per year. Within 5 years of graduation, you must spend 18 months as a government employee (department of energy, etc.) in a science/engineering related capacity.

[southerncrone]

9. I'm going back to be certified to teach HS math.

Left the bus world 8 yrs ago to teach HS. There is such a shortage of math teachers (especially GOOD math teachers, that I can go back basically for free.) I'll do my part in preparing our youth for those careers.

But as you state, who will do the hard work necessary to prepare for these careers? My guess is a lot of displaced engineers, who are seeing their jobs outsourced overseas. I know a female engineer who graduated from a good engineering university magna cum laude, who has had to go back & get her RN degree to get a decent paying job. The only thing she could find in engineering paid $6/hr!! She told them she could make more than that at McDonald's!! Welcome to the global "economy". :eyes:

[Aviation Pro]

10. What engineering degree does she hold?

I work with engineers everyday, they are well paid for their efforts. If you tell me, I'll send you a private reply with companies she can work for.

[southerncrone]

27. She's now has a nusing career at Vanderbilt Hospital.

She seems satisfied. Raising a family, so hrs. are good for her, too.

Her engineering degree: BS in Civil w/ minor in Mechanical.

My husband is an electrical engineer, and is one of the few left at his mfg. plant. Most of the engineers (of all types) have lost their jobs in the last 10 yrs., only to be replaced by a new grad at half the pay & hardly any benefits.
Finding work new work was also a challenge, most had to move to other areas of the country.

[LadyVT]

12. Obama has said he will dismantle NASA (my husband works there)

He does not understand its "relevancy."

[scheming daemons]

13. Link please? Otherwise, this is just bullshit.....

Show me where Obama said he'll dismantle NASA.

[Aviation Pro]

23. Link here...

...read his position paper embedded in the link: http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/11/20/obama-cut-constellation-to-pay-for-education/

[thevoiceofreason]

16. No he hasn't

Point me to a source.

Link, please.

What he said was to the effect of "Don't throw everything into manned space missions just to throw everything into manned space missions." That is called logic and intellegence. He is a big supporter of the space program. I'm in Houston -- so are we.

[Aviation Pro]

25. Link here....

...http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/11/20/obama-cut-constellation-to-pay-for-education/

...and again, it refers to the Constellation project, check out his position paper embedded in the article.

[Aviation Pro]

18. He said he would delay the Constellation project....

...for five years. Again, this is why I do not trust this candidate as far as I can throw him. I will reluctantly vote for him because the alternative is unthinkable, but he had better pull his braniac head out of his hindquarter if he intends on being successful at governing.

[Forkboy]

20. Can you give me details on this?

I'm one of the few left who like NASA and think we need a better space program, so I'd be interested in reading more about this.

Thanks.

[Aviation Pro]

22. Here you go....

...http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/11/20/obama-cut-constellation-to-pay-for-education/

[Forkboy]

28. Thank you.

I understand his desire to use the money for education, but it would seem there would be other ways to get that money (like cutting the bloated beyond comprehension Pentagon budget).

I know there's a lot of mixed feelings on the space program, and I bet he'd actually find a lot of support for this. There's been threads here about the space program and how that money should be spent on things just like education, and many are against spending the money on the space program instead. I'm of the belief it doesn't have to be either/or, but I won't be surprised to find myself in a minority on this.

Thanks again.

[Aviation Pro]

30. Most people forget that NASA....

...stands for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The aeronautics side is a crown jewel and I work with many of the dedicated engineers, meteorologists, earth scientists and test pilots from that organization.

Rethink your position, Senator Obama. If your wife needs proof positive of what to be proud of in America have her watch a shuttle launch from Ponce Inlet.

[Forkboy]

32. Well said.

I hope they rethink this too.

And I envy your job. :)

[Aviation Pro]

33. I don't work at NASA....

...but I do run in the same networks as the professionals I mentioned.

[Forkboy]

34. Close enough for me.

Must be endlessly interesting...unless it's all paperwork. x(

[Aviation Pro]

35. Not paperwork....

...a lot of aerodynamic and meteorological modeling though.

[Forkboy]

19. Not that I don't trust you...*cough*..., but is there proof of this?

[Aviation Pro]

26. Link....

...http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/11/20/obama-cut-constellation-to-pay-for-education/

[Forkboy]

29. This is a different than LadyVT's charge.

You provided facts, she provided hyperbole.

[Aviation Pro]

31. The curse of being reality-based....

....

[Johnny__Motown]

14. Maybe he should propose something that makes collage more affordable....OH ,WAIT, never mind

[Tatiana]

24. *Very* interesting point!

Which is why we need to have educational incentives for students to go into these hard-to-fill scientific fields. I think part of the problem we are dealing with now is that those really smart, dedicated, bright students who have the skills to compete in this field don't because they don't want to mortgage their lives away ($100,000 is chump change now for higher ed through an advanced degree). I'm still paying off student loans from 6-7 years ago!

So we've got to find some way to help those who would be interested in those fields (and I work in K-12 ed; there are MANY gifted low-income students who have the capabilities of succeeding in those fields, but lack the finances to pay for college). If we can find and invest in those students, we will greatly increase the job pool in that sector.

But then you also have older members who are already part of the workplace who could easily transfer existing knowledge and apply it to fields such as nanotechnology. I know many gifted science teachers who fit that bill. But there is no way they would invest the amount of money to go back to school when the market doesn't show that they will have a well-paying job waiting at the end of the tunnel. Something has to be done about these visas that allow tech companies and institutions to import cheap labor instead of using workers right here.