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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:15 PM
Original message
The next president may drastically alter the Supreme Court
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 03:00 PM by nomad1776
With the Supreme Court tipping ever rightward, the next president will probably be in a position to move it back to the left or tip it disastrously toward the right. If it moves any farther right, we can all kiss goodbye so many of the basic liberties we now take for granted. I think it's important we all remember that, when we talk about supporting Obama and Hillary. It's important in context of Nader, as well. We are at a juncture, where our actions could have great implications for us, our children and our children's children. Do any of us dare let them down?
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is a very important, and key, point!
We should be shouting it from the rooftops...

K&R

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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Correction: The next President *WILL* drastically alter the Supreme Court
There is no 'may' about it.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Actually only a Republican would. All of the liberal judges are prime for retirement.
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 02:29 PM by onehandle
Most of the conservatives will be there for decades.

We can only hold the line in the short run.

McCain would make it far, far worse.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. True, but holding the line is still better than the alternative. (If only I felt
positive we would get liberals and not moderates from the Dem president. There's been too much pandering to the repubs in terms of nominees for everything else, y'know?)
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Hopefully the Dem will enjoy 8 years
Which would mean that eventually one of the right wingers may retire.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. Breyer? Ginsburg?
Not exactly doddering.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. I stand corrected
You are right, the next President will.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. We must defeat McCain. He will go out of his way to appoint nightmarish fundies...
...to pacify the far conservative right.

Any Democrat running will do.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. You got that right
None of our civil liberties will be safe.
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COFoothills Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Probably will appoint two seats minimum...
...Stevens is hanging on trying to wait for dems to be appointing his replacement.

By all accounts, Ginsburg would also like to retire.

So two for sure, and two of the more liberal members of the court. Need to make sure we can keep that balance in check there.

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Umbram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Agreed.
Especially given the slow movement towards picking judges just out of puberty, in hopes that they will be on the bench for the next 70 years.

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I Vote In Pittsburgh Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. What's the lineup right now?
I'm young and ignorant. How many conservative, moderate, and liberal justices are there right now?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Here's a link to their biographies
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COFoothills Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. There are two missing from this link....
Breyer and Alito
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. whoops! Thanks for catching that
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. So, once again, electability is the key issue
I still can't tell who's got the edge.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Doesn't matter who has the edge
We all must work toward assuring that who ever takes the nomination wins. We as a nation can not afford to let McCain win.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. I'm talking about the general election.
The most important point for me, since there's so little difference between the two choices, is who has the best chance to win the general election. Hmmm...I thought that was rather obvious.

If McCain or some other Reactionary gets in there, they're going to seat a couple of 40 year-old nazis and there'll be hell to pay.
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. We absolutely must have a Dem in the WH!
No matter which candidate becomes our nominee. No matter how much we DON'T want to vote for that person, if we care anything at all about our country,we MUST vote for the Dem nominee!
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Agreed, we need to vote and work for whoever wins
The Supreme Court is too important to let it become a puppet of the right wingnuts.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. We also have to start WRITING LAWS
The Supreme Court can't easily overturn a well-written law that passes Constitutional muster. That explains why a number of progressive laws have "been allowed to stay on the books". The Supreme Court hesitate become a law unto themselves -- they work on the premise of slowing down change, not speeding it up.

So what we need to do is to write laws that codify the most vulnerable progressive decisions, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade">Roe v Wade, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_v._Arizona">Miranda v Arizona, and overturn stinkers like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo">Buckley v Valeo. Shifting the action from the Judicial branch to the Legislative will give us a much more secure route to maintaining a democratic America.

--p!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. We would all do well to bone up on "New Deal" history, for that was the last
great confrontation between the public mandate of social justice and the leftover dregs of the ruling class who had destroyed our country out of greed--their legacy Supreme Court Justices.

The U.S. was flattened by the Great Depression--an economic era that our own bears haunting resemblance to. Millions out of work, millions homeless, millions starving. In 1932, the country elected Franklin Delano Roosevelt to handle this great crisis. He started immediately with desperately needed relief programs--some of them initiated by Herbert Hoover, who was not quite the heartless bastard he is sometimes made out to be, but was, rather, just hapless in the face of the staggering ruin that his own class had brought upon the country.

FDR, from the same class, however, had the largeness of vision to understand that fundamental, structural change in the economy, and in the government's relationship to the economy, was needed, or the country would never recover. It would go on being the "banana republic" of the super-rich and financial predators.

And, one by one, nearly every program that he proposed and got passed in Congress, to restructure the economy with supports for workers, farmers, the elderly, poor families and middle class families suddenly in poverty, against the outsized advantages and irresponsibility of the rich--were declared unconstitutional by the Hoover-Coolidge regime's Supreme Court appointees.

The Constitution does not specify nine as the number of Supreme Court justices. Congress determines the number. FDR asked Congress to increase the number of justices, to add younger, more liberal justices, who would have more sympathy with the downtrodden, and more understanding of the failures of government that led to the Great Depression. All hell broke lose in the rightwing press. They said that FDR was "packing the Supreme Court" (rather than balancing it to suit the times). They called him a "dictator" and every other thing (--much like Bushites and global corporate predators call Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela, a "dictator"--but the only people he actually "dictates" to are the CEOs of Exxon Mobil and other bad actors who have been stealing from the South American poor for decades). In the end, FDR had to back down. (The rightwing press got to Congress.) But the pressure that he brought to bear on the Court resulted in one justice changing his mind about the "New Deal." Thus, Social Security was saved.

We would not have Social Security today if FDR hadn't waged that battle with the Supreme Court.

FDR's "New Deal" government had to try every which way to get around that dinosaur Court. The New Dealers were very innovative. The battle was on-going. But, ultimately, the "New Deal" won, in establishing the principle of "the commons"--that we have responsibilities to each other as citizens of the U.S., to educate the young, to prevent the penury of the elderly, to regulate the economy for everyone's benefit, to protect workers, to attend to the "health and welfare" of society as a whole, to create common spaces and build common infrastructure (schools, libraries, hospitals, roads, parks), to spread the cost of electrification--and also telephone service, and bus and train service-- evenly over the nation, so that rural areas with low density population would not be neglected (--which they would be, and are being today, by private corporations), and these great equalizing ideas were also concurrent with the rise of the black civil rights movement, in particular--the equality and dignity of every citizen.

It was a welding of some principles of socialism and communism, with capitalism, that worked out very well, enabled the U.S. to win WW II, fighting on two major fronts--against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan--and set the stage for general prosperity in the 1950s through the 1970s, until the Reagan era, when the Reaganites began to dismantle the "New Deal" (by, among other things, a re-write of the tax code, that ended the progressive tax, and began to favor the rich inordinately, and attacking the labor movement).

The Democratic Party leadership soon became complicit in this dismantling of "the commons" and abandonment of the "New Deal" and its championing of ordinary people. And we reach today, a party with many leaders who are bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists and global corporate predators--those who would have been called "robber barons" in the New Deal era--and a countrywide grass roots movement to reclaim the Democratic Party for the people who made it great--the poor and relatively poor majority and enlightened professionals.

In looking with horror on the Bush Junta's Supreme Court, think of it like this: Where there's a will, there's a way. And, FDR's most famous line: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

We do not have to accept a Supreme Court that dismantles our Constitution. We can impeach them. We can put a special prosecutor on them to dog their every hunting party, until we have the goods on them, and then haul them before Congress and throw them out. We can "pack the Supreme Court"--add liberal justices to balance the Bush dinosaurs--probably the easiest way to deal with the situation, since it does not require a Constitutional amendment. We can change the Constitution to shorten their terms (currently life terms) and make it retroactive, or subject them to election by the people (as many judges are in lower courts). We can devise innovative legislation to get around their rulings. We can promulgate changes to state constitutions, to strengthen our rights.

We need to throw out all these Bushite-corporate controlled electronic voting machines, with their "trade secret" code, and restore transparent, slow, careful, PUBLICLY VIEWED vote counting as a start toward achieving a truly representative Congress, which will fight this fight on our behalf (and a strong president, of course). Election reform is most doable at the state/local level, by local citizen pressure. That movement is well under way. We have a lot of work to do--but so did the New Dealers. They had a country to literally put back together, piece by piece. So can we.

I envision a time when our global corporate predators have been chased from our shores, beginning with a movement to elect and appoint judges who will rescind corporate "personhood" rights, which have been an assault on our sovereignty as a people. Corporate entities have no "right" to do business here, no right to profit, and no right to exist at all. We the People have all the rights. We charter them to do business. We can require anything we think is in the common interest as the price of that charter. We can disband them at will, and seize their assets for the common good. And we can do all of this while building a vibrant, non-monopolistic, fair trade economy, with the strongest component of social justice that we can pay for and think wise and for the good of all.

This is OUR country. We individual citizens are the inheritors of its great traditions, of its great founding principles and of its many social justice struggles, and we are the beings through whom this democracy will be passed to the future. Exxon Mobil has no right to acquire property and massive wealth and power in perpetuity here. We say what goes here. And we can join with like-minded peoples around the world--indeed with almost all of South America--to throw these bad actors off our backs, and off the backs of others, and to send them to Mars. They can go try to terraform a green world there, since they have nearly wrecked this one.

This is the heart of the matter. This is what this fascist Bushite Court was appointed to protect--CORPORATE PROPERTY RIGHTS, WEALTH AND POWER INTO PERPETUITY, over against OUR rights as the Sovereign People of this land.

It is not a small fight. It is a fight for the survival of humanity itself. And it will not be easy. So start thinking: How do we do it? Not, how do we barely hang onto what few rights we have left? But how do we re-structure our economy and our laws, to address the heart of the problem, and fix it at its foundation, to achieve centuries of stability and flexibility, as our Founders did for us. To do that we must mount an all-out assault on global corporate predator power. It doesn't need to be bloody, unless they make it bloody. It can and must begin with something as simple as counting all the votes in public view. Our vote is the method by which we exercise our sovereignty. It is our main power of self-determination as a people. That must be our first priority.

In the FLA-13 case--the Florida Congressional election dispute from 2006, that our traitorous Democratic Congress just washed its hands of--electronic voting machines, manufactured by a far rightwing-connected corporation, ES&S (related also to Diebold-Premier), 'disappeared' 18,000 votes for Congress in Democratic areas, in an election "won" by the Bushite by only 369 votes. When the lawyers for the Democrat (Christine Jennings) took the matter to court, and asked to review ES&S's "trade secret" code--to try to determine what happened to those 18,000 votes--ES&S REFUSED , and argued that their "right" to profit from our elections TRUMPS the right of the voters to know how their votes were counted. And the Bushbot judge agreed!

Our sovereignty as a people took a serious blow that day. Congress later (this week) kicked our sovereignty in the head, and gravely wounded it, by failing to defend us from these foul predators who have stolen and corrupted our election system. It's time for us all to join those who are fighting fights like this one, and restore democracy in the United States.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. If Obama gets elected and gets a pick he should appoint Bill Clinton. Tell me where I am wrong.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Too old? The dems need to adopt the repuke stategy
of appointing them at a young age, so they are there forever.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Bill is not that old. And he will live a long time.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. With his love of fast food, do you think that's likely?
As far as I can tell, he doesn't really live a healthy life style. Hasn't he already had heart problems?
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COFoothills Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I agree....
Nobody over 55-60 at the most. We need to leave a mark on the makeup of that court while we have a chance.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. To the Greatest Page
This is all about the SCOTUS.
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. As long as Stevens keeps breathing....
Just hope he doesn't go before November...
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. K & R. n/t
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. people should have thought of that before they played the race-card on Hillary!
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Are you willing to risk destroying our freedoms
Just to spite some DUers that pissed you off?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. what about the children?
Our nation could become a police state, where women and minorities have zero rights. In fact the only right the government will allow anyone, will be the right to get shot from some gun packing nut case. Is that the America you want to see? Is that the America you want to leave to future generations?
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Obama should have thought of that before he and his people ran a dirty campaign!
I would not condone the kind of dirty campaign Obama ran by voting for him. I will not drop a piece of lit for the guy either... and I am the only one in my neighborhood to do it! I have never seen a candidate I disliked more! if I have to spend the rest of my life under a conservative S.C it is better than giving Obama the presidency for his lies and bringing down a fellow democrat in the name of winning.

He can go back to Illinois and stay there! I wouldn't vote for him! No Way! No How! It is all I can do not to swear when speaking of the guy! I curse the day I ever said a nice word about him! Worst thing ever to happen to the democrat party!!!!!
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Can you be more specific
What horrible things did Obama do? What you suggesting is pretty aweful. What are these crimes you say Obama committed, that justifies your actions?
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. this says it all!!! could not have said it better myself!
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