It seems clear some Clinton supporters feel the Farrakhan thing is they're last best hope.

[Forkboy]

They couch it as just looking out for us all, a public service announcement if you will, but it's pretty clear that they're using it because they feel it'll help Hillary, not because they're worried it'll help McCain. That's just either them trying to delude themselves or us, and neither is good or smart. The concern for the Party is touching, but they might want to try it with a little less obvious glee if they think anyone will believe they really care about anything other than smearing Obama with it.

She did fine tonight, but nothing that will change the trend. I'm sure McCain will try to use it, and I'm equally sure it'll blow up in his face.

[woolldog]

1. It's pathetic isn't it.

They feel it slipping away and have been reduced to parsing the distinction between denouncing and rejecting.

It's sad, frankly.

[Forkboy]

2. It really is.

I honestly like a lot of Hillary supporters here, but there's some that are just becoming unglued over how this is going down. An excess of emotional investment in candidates can cause this kind of thing.

Me, I don't like either one very much, so I'm just twiddling my thumbs waiting for one or the other to finally put it away so we can regain some sanity once again. :)

[scheming daemons]

3. Funny... it was all Hannity could talk about today too.......

...strange bedfellows...

[Forkboy]

6. You guys can't help yourself with the guilt by associatoin stuff, can you?

:rofl:

[scheming daemons]

20. Dude... I'm a big Obama supporter... I was talking about the Hillary supporters....

....

[woolldog]

24. Hannity is really starting to piss me off

with his "Barack and Michelle hate white people!" meme

[MagsDem]

4. She already won the jewish vote in NY and FL

Too bad the Obama camp is refusing to let those folks in FL be counted. He'll find it impossible to get that vote in the GE if he wins the nomination.

[Colobo]

5. The candidates agreed that Michigan and Florida didn't count.

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. Jews and Floridians are disenfranchised by Obama

All in one sentence.

[apocalypsehow]

28. Bullshit - the latter "disenfranchised" itself when it broke the rules, rules the Florida state

legislature were well aware of in advance, as well as the consequences of violating them.

As to your reference to Senator Obama "disenfranchising" Jews as a group, that is truly a loathsome, despicable statement, something one would only expect to hear from the looniest savants in right-wing hate radio. You should be ashamed.

[woolldog]

11. FL

is a lost cause. In all my scenarios I've assumed it's going red.

[lligrd]

13. Get Real. Neither NY Or FL Dems Are Going To Vote McCain

And you guys really should quit wishing for that.

She won NY because it was an early state and she is their Senator. She "won" Florida because because Obama didn't campaign there. Everywhere he is really been able to do a grassroots he has won or come very close in votes in a very short time.

[RockyTorres]

7. The moderator brought it up, she didn't

[Forkboy]

9. I'm talking about right here on DU.

[Renew Deal]

8. If that's all they have to talk about, Obama clearly won.

Seriously, that's it? Great!

[still_one]

12. The problem isn't that Obama rejects farrakahn, which I am sure he does

the problem is that the Church Obama goes to, Revrend Wright presides, and it is Wrights association with Farrakhan that will create possible problems:

"During the course of the campaign, Wright has also attracted controversy for his association with Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam.<10> Wright travelled to Libya with Farrakhan in the 1980s. In 2007, Wright addressed this by saying "When enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Colonel Gadaffi with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell."<11> In 2007, Trumpet Magazine (published and edited by Wright's daughter) presented the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to Farrakhan, whom it said "truly epitomized greatness."<12> Wright is quoted in the magazine offering praise of Farrakhan "as one of the 20th and. 21st century giants of the African American religious experience" and also praised Farrakhan's "integrity and honesty."<13> In response, Obama noted his disagreement with the decision to give the award to Farrakhan; his statement was praised by Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League.<14>

In addition, Wright has said that Zionism has an element of "white racism", and that the attacks on 9/11 were a consequence of violent American policies and proved that "people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 'disappeared' as the Great White West went on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns."<15>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

[americanstranger]

15. Thanks for your concern.

Because of course, since Obama is black he is personally responsible for the conduct and beliefs of all black people.

Obama should denounce all black people who have ever held controversial views on any subject, because then and only then will he be pure enough to be president.

- as

[still_one]

16. No he isn't. All I am saying is right or wrong, this will be used against him

let me give you an example, a member of my family is an avid bush supporter, there is nothing I can do about that, I just don't discuss politics with him that is for sure

Obama has already distanced himself from Wrights views, and there is not much more that he can do about that

However, there will be people who will say he should leave that Church, and he will need to deal with that

These primaries are nothing, the general election, especially if the 529s take hold will be brutal

Just so you know where I am coming from, I AM an Obama supporter, just throwing it out, because this will most likely get thrown at us in the general election

I think my family example is not a bad approach, though there are those that won't accept that either

[americanstranger]

18. Fair enough. I misunderstood and I apologize.

But I think at the end of the day it's not as big of a deal as it seems to be right now.

Besides, do you really think 'people of faith' could seriously argue that a presidential candidate not be allowed to exercise freedom of religion? They might try it, but I think if Obama re-cast it in terms of all Americans being free to follow their faith, it wouldn't get very far. He seems to be pretty adept at making those kinds of arguments.

- as

[still_one]

21. I brought it up because every other thread is screaming about it ad nasseum

we are on the same side, I just want to be very well prepared

Barrack will NOT have a problem if given a chance, it is those 529's, i.e. swift-boating that concern me, and I don't want a rerun of 2004

Hopefully, we will have our candidate, i.e. Barrack, I HOPE, on Tuesday, and we can focus our energies against the republicans

[DearAbby]

26. Jeremiah Wright is running for Office?

:shrug: Obama's answer to this question is good enough for me. Do you want it written in blood?


Edit: Actually Obama was done a favor tonight, he was asked and he answered it. McCain bringing it up and harping on the topic will appear as beating a dead horse.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. Should all Catholics be responsible for the views of the Pope?

[AtomicKitten]

14. Enough with the division via hate and fear-mongering.

[still_one]

17. You are right, but you know it IS going to be used against us in the GE

Obama has distanced himself, and critisized the views of the Nation of Islam, but definitely he will need to be prepared to come out very strong against this, because it will be used by the republicans

[AtomicKitten]

32. For once I don't fear the GOP.

I sincerely believe that Obama will kick the ever lovin' sh*t out of McCain. McCain is already spanking the really nasty wingnuts over inappropriate remarks, and I really believe Obama and McCain, probably the two most nonpartisan candidates in the race, will usher in a new era of politics. Oh, the spiders will be barking, but McCain has shown a sincere assertiveness toward reining in the ugly.

I am hopeful. :)

[Demagitator]

35. But the Nation of Islam....

still thinks Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. is the second coming of Muhammad; even if he did renounce them.

[FlyingSquirrel]

19. Their. THEIR!

Sorry, just saw one too many for the night.

[tammywammy]

22. Agreed!

[milkyway]

23. I hate these kinds of questions, always seems like having to sign some pledge in a totalitarian

country. Has a Joe McCarthy kind of feel to them.

I wonder if Russert will ask McCain to denounce O'Rielly or any of the other hatemongers on Fox and extremist radio.

Russert's big on asking Dems for pledges. At a debate months ago he tried to get the Dem candidates to promise they would invade Iran if Iran harmed any U.S. troops.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

25. Hillary "doesn't have time" to release her taxes because she's "a little busy"?

Obama was very gracious and turned it into a big win. Basically took Hillary's lines and used them against her "I am not interested in talk. I am not interested in speeches". Then goes into his acomplishments

From the start, she surprisingly and unpresidentially complained about moderator bias, citing SNL.

She tried to dominate the debate by fillibustering the first 15-16 minutes of the debate, I guess she knows that the less people hear Obama, the better for her?

Her position on releasing her tax returns is as tortured as her position on voting for the Iraq war.

She can't attack effectively against his unyielding wall of good humor and mild-manneredness.

[apocalypsehow]

27. You have nailed it! Sad to see some so-called "progressives" stoop to the race-baiting gutter tactic

of the Republican Party, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest of hate radio; a tactic honed by Richard Nixon with his "Southern Strategy" that subtly played on white anxieties about the "dangerous Black man."

Some - not all - Hillary supporters have played that rancid card every bit as expertly as any right-winger I've ever seen.

K & R - :thumbsup:

[Scurrilous]

29. Great post.

K & R :thumbsup:

[BlooInBloo]

30. A common way white folks try to bully black folks into being "good negroes".

[Ichingcarpenter]

31. You are right

The last stance of hypocrisy

FOR ALL TO RECORD ON THE INTERNET.

youtube is not the only way of recording behavior.

[Scurrilous]

33. Obama 'rejects' Farrakhan

<snip>

"Barack Obama rejected the support of Louis Farrakhan during the Democratic presidential debate.

U.S. Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Obama (D-Ill.) met Tuesday evening in Cleveland for the 20th debate in the run for the Democratic nomination for the presidency.

MSNBC debate moderator Tim Russert pressed Obama on Farrakhan's endorsement over the weekend, noting that the Nation of Islam leader had often made anti-Semitic remarks, once calling Judaism a "gutter religion."

"I have been very clear in my denunciation of Minister Farrakhan's anti-Semitic comments," Obama said. "I think that they are unacceptable and reprehensible. I did not solicit this support. He expressed pride in an African-American who seems to be bringing the country together. I obviously can't censor him, but it is not support that I sought. And we're not doing anything, I assure you, formally or informally with Minister Farrakhan."

Pressed by Russert to reject Farrakhan's support, Obama said: "Tim, you know, I can't say to somebody that he can't say that he thinks I'm a good guy."

Russert continued to challenge the candidate, noting that Obama's pastor had expressed admiration for Farrakhan. Obama countered by noting his pro-Israel record, his speaking out against anti-Semitism in the black community and his strong support among Jews in Illinois and nationwide.

Russert appeared ready to leave the matter when Clinton interjected, noting that she had rejected the support of the New York Independence Party in her 2000 run for the Senate because a leader, Lenore Fulani, had made anti-Semitic comments.

"I made it very clear that I did not want their support," she said. "I rejected it. I said that it would not be anything I would be comfortable with and it looked as though I might pay a price for that." Clinton said "there's a difference between denouncing and rejecting" and that although she believed Obama was sincere, "we've got to be even stronger."

Obama did not see the difference, but added: "I'm happy to concede the point. And I would reject and denounce." Clinton said "Excellent," spurring the biggest applause of the evening."

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/107227.html

[FlyingSquirrel]

36. This is just a continuation of the e-mail smear campaign against Obama

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/01/jewish_leaders_denounce_antiobama_emails.php

Jewish Leaders Denounce Anti-Obama E-Mails
By Eric Kleefeld - January 16, 2008, 9:31AM
The online smear campaign against Barack Obama has now attracted attention from some prominent Jewish leaders. The heads of the American Jewish Committee, the Anti-Defamation League, the Simon Wiesenthal Center and other prominent Jewish organizations have circulated an open letter absolutely condemning the smears, before they might influence too many Jewish voters

January 15, 2008
An Open Letter to the Jewish Community:

As leaders of the Jewish community, none of whose organizations will endorse or oppose any candidate for President, we feel compelled to speak out against certain rhetoric and tactics in the current campaign that we find particularly abhorrent. Of particular concern, over the past several weeks, many in our community have received hateful emails that use falsehood and innuendo to mischaracterize Senator Barack Obama’s religious beliefs and who he is as a person.

These tactics attempt to drive a wedge between our community and a presidential candidate based on despicable and false attacks and innuendo based on religion. We reject these efforts to manipulate members of our community into supporting or opposing candidates.

Attempts of this sort to mislead and inflame voters should not be part of our political discourse and should be rebuffed by all who believe in our democracy. Jewish voters, like all voters, should support whichever candidate they believe would make the best president. We urge everyone to make that decision based on the factual records of these candidates, and nothing less.

Sincerely,

Rabbi Marvin Hier, Founder and Dean, Simon Wiesenthal Center

Rabbi Abraham Cooper, Associate Dean, Simon Wiesenthal Center

William Daroff, Vice President, United Jewish Communities

Nathan J. Diament, Director, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America

Abraham Foxman, National Director, Anti-Defamation League

Richard S. Gordon, President, American Jewish Congress

David Harris, Executive Director, American Jewish Committee

Rabbi David Saperstein, Director, Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism

Phyllis Snyder, President, National Council of Jewish Women

Hadar Susskind, Washington Director, Jewish Council for Public Affairs

[Joanne98]

37. I thought that was totally unimportant and I have no idea why Russet brought it up!

[Perry Logan]

38. An Obama supporter reading a Clinton supporter's mind is like a dog trying to understand its master.

[Forkboy]

39. An Hillary suipporter trying to guess who supports who is apparently the same.

Thanks for playing. Someday you'll actually have something to say. :hi: