I watched 2 people convert tonight.

[Milo_Bloom]

We all needed to work late tonight, so we set up a TV at the office and had the debate on as we did some "mindless" computer work... before long we stopped doing the work and just watched.

Me and 3 women.

2 of the women had voted for Clinton in the CA primary... they were not "supporters".. they just voted for her.

The other 2 people voted for Obama (me and the wife). The 2 Clinton voters did not know how I or my wife had voted, as I am their boss and I don't feel it appropriate to broadcast it in the office, but they had both mentioned voting for Clinton in the CA primary.

I was utterly fascinated, as I watched them cringe at Clinton's "pillow" comment. Laugh when Obama talked about a nonsensical distinction between "reject" and "denounce" and just generally not connect, in the least, with the candidate for whom they had voted. As someone just observing their reactions, it was absolutely clear to me, that they were now in Obama's camp... but this was made clear to me when Russert asked Clinton if there was anything she could take back... and one of them blurted out, "yeah, voting for you". The other one started laughing and said something along the line, "OMG, I was totally thinking the same thing."

After the debate they talked about how flustered she seemed and how evasive she was. They felt Obama "owned his positions and even his mistakes" while Clinton was "making excuses" for everything.

I am sure Clinton "supporters" saw it all differently, which was why I was careful to mention that they weren't supporters, they just voted for her in CA... but if this is any indication of how soft support and undecideds will break... I think Ohio and Texas have become a lock for Obama.

[Egnever]

1. I don't think she did herself any favors with her opening

[Milo_Bloom]

3. Personally, I thought she was off message and in desperation mode...

... but I don't like her, so I can't count my reaction to the debate, since it is hardly unbiased... that is why I was tickled pink by the reaction of two previous Clinton voters.

[krkaufman]

26. Yeah, starting-off with the victim card made her look weak.

... and mixed with the "pillow" comment made her look petty.

[Eurobabe]

2. Clinton nailed her coffin tonight with those stupid outbursts.

Meet you in Ohio Hillary.

[Milo_Bloom]

4. I really don't get what she was doing.

Did someone think that cushion comment was funny?

Did someone think being a "fighter" is what people want?

If the Obama campaign has shown us anything it is that people are tired of "fighting". They want someone who is just going to fight... they want results and promising to "fight" isn't promising results... it is promising 4 years of divisive anger.

[FlyingSquirrel]

5. I missed the cushion/pillow comment

what was it?

[samdogmom]

7. Hillary brought up last Saturday's SNL skit!

Good grief! It fell very F...L...A...T! Your girl didn't win points with this Flying Squirrel!

[FlyingSquirrel]

13. Um, she's not my girl

:)

[samdogmom]

18. Hmmm. You sure?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4784107#4784121

Whatever!

[FlyingSquirrel]

21. Wow.

That's a thread created by an Obama supporter to pretty much make nice with Hillary supporters. I was happy to include myself in it.

-----

Now if you'd like to dig a bit further into my recent past......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4757993

(Hint: Read the entire post, not just the subject line)

:hi:

Or you could go a bit further back to a week ago when I changed my avatar to Obama (before making it neutral again)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4656031

[samdogmom]

23. In that case--I apologize!

You've turned up in so many Hillary threads--it gets confusing. Peace.

On Edit: I'm not trying to start anything--I just thought you were a Hillary supporter from the posts I've read. I was wrong. I apologize. I'm sorry. I was actually being a jerk. BIG APOLOGY!

[FlyingSquirrel]

24. Peace

:)

[ginnyinWI]

8. she was referring to a Saturday Night Live sketch

Which was about Hillary and Obama in a debate, and all the people are fawning over Obama and asking him if he's comfy, needs a pillow, etc.

So she actually brings that up in a real debate--unbelievable. I suppose she thought she'd get a laugh. She didn't.

[krkaufman]

27. eh, I think it may have been a play for some sympathy votes. n/t

[psychopomp]

16. video link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db-bBAPjTxY

[psychopomp]

17. link to SNL sketch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdpPj6UMG6A

[FlyingSquirrel]

19. Thanks!

I guess I didn't miss the pillow comment after all, I just didn't think it was as big a deal as some apparently do. I did think she looked a bit silly going off on a rant just because she got asked the question first. She was on the left side after all.

[Tarheel_Dem]

22. I'm a former Edwards supporter, and that was the turn-off for people

I spoke with about his candidacy. Their biggest complaint of Edwards was the "fighting" references. They said he came off as angry. Obama has somehow mastered the art of remaining cool & calm under pressure.

I don't know how many other Edwards people heard this, but it's what I heard , nearly all the time. And Hillary did herself no favors tonight, especially after they played back clips of her mocking Obama and his supporters.

[grantcart]

12. Oh they are going to meet in Ohio all right

[samdogmom]

6. Thanks for the update!

Very astute observers, if I may say so myself!

[rexy]

9. I felt the same way as your two employees.

I've been undecided for awhile now, but do admit I leaned more towards Obama than Clinton. I think both candidates have flaws, neither are perfect. But I honestly just do not like her tactics and lack of ownership of them. Still, I've tried to remain open minded throughout these debates.

Tonight did it for me. I became one of the "million" and donated to Obama's campaign just now.

I'd vote for either when it comes down to it, but I'm rooting for Obama.

[Cha]

11. Thanks rexy and Welcome

to DU!

[City Lights]

29. Nice sig line!

:hi:

[Cha]

10. That was a very interesting account,

Milo Bloom, thank you. I would have been fascinated..I keep waiting and waiting for some of the hilary supporters I know to say something about the way she's been acting.

[scheming daemons]

14. How many of the 10 states that Hillary won, do you think would vote differently NOW?

I think Obama would win CA, NJ, NH, NV, and NM.

Hillary would still win AR, TN, OK, NY, MA


That's my view.

[Cha]

20. Maybe if they counted all of the

votes for Obama in New York he'd get a much better showing..especially after all the NYT OP-Ed's calling her out for her campaign problems.

[eissa]

15. That's been my observation

of those who voted here in California. A lot of people who may have followed the campaigns, but are not exactly junkies, voted for who they thought was going to be the inevitable candidate. That's why I think the longer this campaign goes on, the more in benefits Obama. The more people hear him and get to know him, the more likely they are to cast their vote for him. I think that's exactly why the Hillary camp will never agree to a do-over in Michigan and Florida -- they know full well they'd lose.

[krkaufman]

30. Agreed re: MI & FL. Though I don't understand how the Clinton campaign's opinion would matter.

Shouldn't it be simply up to the DNC, MI & FL to decide?

[AtomicKitten]

25. Very interesting exchange.

After the debate they talked about how flustered she seemed and how evasive she was. They felt Obama "owned his positions and even his mistakes" while Clinton was "making excuses" for everything.

:thumbsup:

[elixir]

28. Well, in my house, I heard cheering when HRC nailed BO on Afghanistan, NAFTA and being a fighter.

No one wants a wimp.

[GarbagemanLB]

34. Your house must be full of Hillbots, then. In reality, Obama won that debate.

[writes3000]

35. Please stop using the term, Hillbots. It's annoying and silly. n/t

[goldcanyonaz]

37. Yeah, but you're with normal people, you know the ones that care about issues.

[writes3000]

39. Ah, so Obama supporters aren't normal and don't care about issues. Nice. n/t

[karynnj]

43. Well in my house -

My husband said - "hearings on Afghanistan in the Europe subcommittee, who has the committee that includes Afghanistan, shouldn't they have the hearings? \

Me - "It's Kerry and he had them and the full committee did too)

17 year old with a summer birthday - "Do you think HRC knows that"

Her parents, in unison - "Yes"

[NeedleCast]

31. Great Point in your Post

And I think you're exactly right. It's the democrats who just voted for the democrat they knew best that are turning. They're the ones turning the polls in Texas and slimming the lead in Ohio. I don't remember ever seeing such radical polling shifts over such a short time unless a candidate committed a major gaff.

[elixir]

32. Obama really hurt himself with his less than dynamic debate style and a tendency to parrot HRC

[bagimin]

33. He hurt himself right into the whitehouse

last night.This race is over. She's lost 11 in a row and Texas now looking very bleak,Ohio getting close and she's lost her huge lead in Pa.= fin ito.

[goldcanyonaz]

36. The people at my office loved the pillow comment. I'm in Arizona though, so our votes don't count.

Been told that a few times here.

[writes3000]

38. Of course, your opinion and your votes count...

I don't think there is just one way all people would have perceived Clinton's comments.

If you agree with them, you applaud her. If you're neutral, it may seem aggressive and angry. And if you disagree, she probably came off as whiny.

I don't think the comments were a big win for her or a big loss.

Your votes count just like everyone else's.

[Milo_Bloom]

40. Were they "supporters" or just "voters"

There is a huge distinction here. Obviously "supporters" of either Clinton and/or Obama are going to see things one way.

What I found interesting is that these people were the classic "soft support" that swings elections. They voted for Clinton, but after watching the debate, wouldn't do it again.

One of them was having trouble deciding between McCain and Clinton in the GE (when she still thought CLinton was going to win) because she didn't see a difference between them.

IN short, these are not political activists... or the majority opinion in the office (which I don't know everyone's position) they just happened to be the 2 people who stayed late to finish some work up that night and wound up watching the debate with me and the wife... these are the everday voters... the swing votes... the undecidededs who everyone covets.

They expected far more from Clinton, especially with her meet me in Ohio comments getting round the clock news coverage. They expected her to come out and make a stand... they obviously didn't feel she did and what they did see turned them off.

I am sure not everyone agrees.. but here it is... her core support... women.. turning away from her and I offered it to explain what you are currently seeing now in Texas, Ohio and Penn.

[goldcanyonaz]

41. Just voters, and many of them are men.

[Milo_Bloom]

45. Given the universal reaction of the crowd and everyone I have spoken to...

... I seriously doubt the veracity of that statement.

That pillow comment, at best, fell flat and made her look petty... at worse, single handedly cost her the debate and the nomination.

No one, who isn't a rabid supporter, thought it was great.

[LostinVA]

42. "I watched 2 people convert tonight"

Dear gods...

[Bluebear]

46. Thank you.

[LisaM]

44. And how did the rest of the crusade go?

Did they faint? Did you have to loudly search for a bottle of water to revive them?

[barack the house]

47. It's a beautiful thing when people see the light and truth. The truth is love....

On various occasions one camp has lied over the other, so if the truth is love what does the message send out.

[Hillary_Hillary]

48. "Conversion"...That's what happens in cults...