About Obama's "Louis Farrakhan response" in Ohio (the opinion of one Jew)

[Meshuga]

There is a saying that where there are two Jews there are three different opinions but here are my two cents about Obama handling the Louis Farrakhan question at the debate last night in Ohio. Obama handled it fine, and had a great selling point, even with Hillary's attempt to create a perception that his answer was not good enough.

What was the great selling point? Israel? No, since we know his position as far as Israel is concerned, but he wishes do something that the Jewish community is longing for which is to bridge the once strong relationship (until fairly recent history) between blacks and Jews.

Jews were involved in establishing the NAACP in the beginning of the 20th century, African American newspapers were among the first newspapers to denounce Nazism, most civil rights attorneys in the South during the 1960s were Jews, and both groups were eager to express the similarities rather than the differences between the Jewish and Black experiences in this country.

However, from the 1960's to recent history this relationship has deteriorated and as a Jew, I have to show my appreciation for the prospect of a president Obama coming in and attempting to build a new bridge between two groups that have mostly worked side-by-side but have encountered an unfortunate series of misunderstandings that ruptured a once strong Black-Jewish alliance.

The Jewish community would love to restore this relationship and this pitch from Senator Obama is a big seller.

I found Barak Obama's response to the Louis Farrakhan's question to be fine, no matter how people try to spin this using a context attempting to hurt Senator Obama.

I thought Obama did a great job handling the situation (conceding the point to Clinton) when Senator Clinton tried to create a perception that his response was not good enough.

The positive debate in Washington a couple of weeks ago left me feeling good about both Clinton and Obama and proud of both candidates. Clinton focused on her strengths trying to sell her abilities assuring she would make a fine president. But what has been turning me off about her and her campaign is the divisiveness and the negativity that was over the top in January, with Bill Clinton messing things up for her, and the current aggressive tone from her campaign. I have to admit I was rooting for her to win New Hampshire, but since, I have been turned off by her husband and by the tactics of her campaign. I think that if Hillary kept a more positive campaign to show America that she is not as divisive as people make her out to be, she would be in a better position today and she'd probably have my support.

[babylonsister]

1. Thank you; not being Jewish and an Obama fan, your opinion

means a lot to me.

[union_maid]

3. Half Jewish and in 100% agreement here

Or for the purists, I'm half Gentile. Either way, I was very happy to hear Obama address the "frayed" relationship between black and Jewish communities and his intention to try to help to heal it. No one has addressed this in a positive way in a long time. Mostly the tensions of the last couple of decades have only been exploited on the left and the right. If Obama's willing to discuss it with an eye to history and healing, that's another huge plus in my book.

[Meshuga]

12. For the purists...

If your mother is Jewish then you are fully Jewish. :-)

[union_maid]

30. Nope...my father

Therefore, according the purists...not Jewish at all. But I know I'm half Gentile and the other half sure feels like a Jew. :)

[Meshuga]

31. Hey, the truth is that you are what you say you are

No matter what the purists say. :-)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. In that case: "I'm rich!"

:woohoo:

[Meshuga]

43. In that case I am beautiful :-) n/t

[Emit]

54. And in that case I am rich and beautiful! :-) n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

87. Hence, ergo, thusly, I'm swarthy, warm, smart and artsy. n/t

[hisownpetard]

I'm very tall, very blonde and way, way too thin.

:hi:
Wow, this is great!

:toast:

[wryter2000]

90. Hey, I'm a famous author!

I'm glad I happened on this thread.

Thanks to the OP and to everyone I've read here. What a breath of fresh air compared to much of what gets posted here lately.

:applause: :yourock:

[hisownpetard]

74. I'm very tall, very blonde and way, way too thin.

:hi:
Wow, this is great!

:toast:

[apocalypsehow]

91. My maternal grandmother was Jewish (actually emigrated to Israel after grandpa died),

and even though we were all raised Catholic, at big family get-togethers she would always say to all the grandsons "when are you going to meet a nice Jewish girl and settle down?" Used to drive my (very Catholic) paternal grandparents crazy! Heh.

[Meshuga]

95. Your mother is Jewish since her mother is Jewish

Therefore you are technically Jewish. You are Jewish raised catholic. :-)

[Madam Mossfern]

70. All Jewish here and former

president of a synagogue.
I agree with you 100%
I liked his answer.

[BenDavid]

89. NJDC Ex. Dir. Ira Forman affirming that Senators Hillary Clinton

and Barack Obama have strong records of support for Israel.As partisan Democrats, we have pointed out that both parties support Israel because for nearly half a century our community has succeeded in making support for Israel a bipartisan issue that transcends and politics. We have rejected efforts of conservatives to turn the U.S.-Israel relationship into a political wedge issue.

We were gratified that in last night's Democratic debate both Senators Clinton and Obama strongly expressed their unwavering support for Israel and the Jewish community. If you missed it, you can view the transcript here.

Sadly, there are some on the right who are attempting to scare our community out of supporting Democrats by using support for Israel as political football. To help combat such efforts - and debunk other circulating smears about the 2008 candidates - we have set up a special website.

We hope you will visit this site frequently and encourage friends and family to do so as well.

Sincerely,

Linda Berg
Political Director
National Jewish Democratic Council

[comtec]

115. ouch, so ur only half circumcised?

that sounds... painful, but interesting to see... LOL.
oh gutter thoughts aside...

I think this come back to the old saying "Oh for god's sake, think of the children!"
And yet.. no one ASKS the children!
You'd be amazed at how insightful young minds can be if you ask the question in a way they understand.

This is the fundamental (Ironic since the RW created it) problem with being "politically Correct" imho.
There is all this hand wringing about not offending... when we don't actually ASK what's offensive.
Mind you there's quite a few things that common sense tells us is offensive.
But when do we actually ASK the kids, as opposed to telling them what offends them?

[Olney Blue]

2. I would like to see these relationships strong and healthy as well.

K/R

[madaboutharry]

4. I felt that Tim Russert, by

insisting on reading Farrakhan's ugliest comments into the transcript of this debate, was actually exploiting the Jewish community. I felt Russert was unprofessional. I think Sen. Obama handled the situation well, especially by conceding the point after Sen. Clinton insisted on parsing words and attempting to make Obama's denouncement appear weak. All in all, I think this entire line of questioning was a low point in the debate and the biggest loser was Russert. I also think Sen. Clinton, who missed an opportunity to be gracious allowed herself to appear petty.

[Labors of Hercules]

47. I thought her chiming in to take a stab was completely unsporting...

When she first broke in to speak, I thought it was going to be in Obama's defense, but NO... She stabbed him with an immaterial point and tried to use an element of his defense against something completely outside of his control against him.

Exploitative behavior may be tolerated in politics, but it still pisses me off to see it no matter who the perpetrator is.

[grantcart]

57. I had the same opinion and then all of a sudden I realized I was watching

Penelope - we are now back at SNL the crazy woman who always out boasts everyone. lol

[ContinentalOp]

66. I thought that same thing.

Had she stood up for him there my opinion of her would have risen greatly.

[ekwhite]

105. That was a bad move on her part

She would have won some points by defending Obama, instead of trying to quibble about the difference between "denounce" and "reject." I couldn't help but think about President Clinton's lawyering about the definition of "is."

[rasputin1952]

5. When I was growing up in NYC, the Jews were standing up for

blacks long before anyone else. It was the Jewish community, (I'm not Jewish), that brought me to the position that I hold now, "All people should be treated equally, no exceptions", and I owe hem a debt of gratitude for bringing me to that realization.

There were about 30 Holocaust survivor families in my neighborhood, most of them did very well in dealing w/what they had been through, a few had scars so deep, it affected their children through some pretty nasty occurrences. But the epiphany so many of them had as to the humanity and inhumanity of man was so powerful, they stood up against all forms of racism, sexism and a host of other "isms"; and I too, would like to see the rift bridged...there is a lot of common ground there.

[Meshuga]

14. I agree

There is a lot of common ground and I would love to have the opportunity to have a leader who can help rebuild the bridge. Thanks for your response!

[connecticut yankee]

65. Not in my Jewish community

I grew up in an affluent, primarily Jewish community on Long Island. Blacks were referred to as "Shvartzers," or worse, and looked down upon.

I marched in Civil Rights marches and was laughed at. When I mentioned I attended a Martin Luther King speech, my mother said it was a Communist rally. Other people ridiculed me by asking if I went there to get a slave.

I did not share your experience of Jews standing up against racism. Quite the opposite.

That's one reason I became a Unitarian.

[rasputin1952]

68. Sadly...such enclaves existed, and still exist...

not all people have the same values. Many of the Jews in my area came from Europe and were Holocaust survivors...I knew some Jews, Catholics, Lutherans and even a few Unitarians that were bigots as well...I also have known many blacks, asians, AmerIndians and individuals from every other just about every other "group" that were bigots. By any account, bigotry is not something that comes only from people of Northern European ancestry.

[provis99]

97. huh, sort of like "Darien for Non-Aryans"

I knew Gravesend and Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn were like that, but I didn't know how far it extended into Suffolk County.

[connecticut yankee]

104. Not Suffolk

Nassau County -- an area known as "The Five Towns" aka The Golden Ghetto.

[0007]

86. How true! The Jews indeed also went after the non Union companies.

[DLnyc]

96. Well said

"None are free until all are free." Yes, we are all stronger when we stand up for each other. The right loves to set one group against another--our job is to not take the bait.

[casus belli]

6. It's a very strong history that deserves repair. n/t

[NDambi]

7. This is an important and historical relationship that needs mending...I'd love to see it..be like

it was once...

It will take some work, but it can be done and I look forward to it.

[Meshuga]

19. It will take work

but I believe Obama can be the perfect leader to make this particular change. I also look forward to it. :thumbsup:

[Melinda]

8. Thank you for explaining your position and laying out its context in a well constructed...

and thoughtful manner. No spin, no animosity, no baiting of any kind. You not only shared your perspective, but you've provided historical background and commonalities I was previously unaware of. Cultural barriers must be learned, respected, and accepted, and I am hopeful that an Obama Presidency will once again place this nation with its many cultures on that path. Excellent post - thanks again. :)

[Meshuga]

15. Thank you! :-) n/t

[stellanoir]

9. Having written to Rabbi Lerner many years ago I get regular e-mails from Tikkun magazine.

I received this statement from him yesterday with a long article attached.

Rabbi Michael Lerner, editor of Tikkun Magazine, issued the following statement today (February 26, 2007):

"Presidential candidate Barack Obama has been very successful today in reassuring the bulk of American Jews that the innuendoes and overt attacks on his alleged hostility to or indifference to the well-being of Israel are false or that he has other commitments that might be deemed dangerous to Jews. Obama has shown himself to be a "spiritual progressive" supporting a "progressive Middle Path" that is both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine. While some Jews, particularly those affiliated with the Republican party or the neo-con-influence wing of the Democratic Party, and those who support the policies of the Likud Party in Israel, are likely to continue to critique Obama and spread rumors and distortions, the vast majority of American Jews are far more likely to consider him a friend of Israel just as they consider Hillary Clinton and John McCain to be, and hence are unlikely to have the issue of Israel-support be the one that decides for them how to vote in either the primaries or the general election of 2008."

Obama reaches out to Jewish leaders

By Ami Eden of the Jewish Telegraphic Association (JTA)
We've received a rough transcript that came from the Obama campaign of a
closed meeting that the candidate held Sunday in Cleveland with about 100
Jewish communal leaders. Whoever recorded the remarks was only able to get
Obama's answers, not the actual questions from the audience.

For the most part, Obama sought to reassure the audience — on Israel, Iran,
his church, his pastor, his foreign policy advisers, his religion. At the
same time, he picked a few spots to push back against some of his critics in
the Jewish community (see the stuff about the folly of equating pro-Likud
with pro-Israel and the ability of Israelis to conducts a robust debate over
security/diplomatic strategy).

snip

WE NEED 'TIKKUN OLAM' IN WASHINGTON: "We need to change how Washington works because politics shouldn't just be about scoring political points, it should also be about solving problems. We need to change our priorities to make healthcare more affordable. To have an energy policy that not only creates
jobs and secures our planet but also stops sending billions of dollars to
dictators and effectively leads us to fund both sides of the war on
terrorism. We need a change in our foreign policy to allows to end the war
in Iraq responsibly and lead the world against the common threats of the
21st century, terrorism and nuclear proliferation, genocide, poverty and
hopelessness in the world. These changes are founded in a view of the world
that I believe is deeply imbedded in the Jewish tradition. That all of us
have a responsibility to do our part to repair the world. That we can take
care of one another and build strong communities grounded in faith and
family. That repairing the world is a task that each of us is called upon to
take up every single day. That is the spirit that I expect to take with me
to the White House."

snip

The article was quite lengthy so I cannot post it in its entirety but PM me if you'd like to read it as I couldn't find it posted on Tikkun's website.

[karynnj]

29. Tikkun Olam means repair of the world

(at least from what I've been told in synagogue.)

[Meshuga]

50. It can be used in the context of

"an action of Tikkun Olam" as in "doing something for Tikkun Olam".

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. Thank you MrWiggles.

and not just because I support Sen. Obama, but because as an African American, I am genuinely touched by your receptive attitude to the healing that needs to take place. I'll admit that I don't know much about the actual reason for the deterioration of the relationship between our people, but I am thrilled that someone is actually talking about taking the initiative to repairing it.

Although, I can't speak for an entire race, I am willing to go out on a limb and say that most in the black community long for the same healing as the two of us. Thanks for posting this, with all the bitterness that's taken place here over the past few weeks, this is so heartwarming to wake up to.
:pals:

[Meshuga]

17. Thank you

Obama made me feel good about the possibility of rebuilding the bridge. I believe that he can lead us to this reconciliation. It would be great for both communities. Thanks again!

[JerseygirlCT]

11. As is often the case, completely agree with you, Mr. Wiggles

The prospect of mended fences and a stronger country going forward is a very pleasing one. Clinton's negativity has been a big turn-off for me. I thought perhaps she'd turned a page on that at the last debate, but I guess not.

Just anecdotal, but all my ILs (Jewish) are fervent Obama supporters. I think they'd also agree with you and your desire for a rebuilt bridge between the communities.

And I too think he handled the question very well. I particularly liked the way he handled her accusation that she'd done more. He thinks quickly on his feet, which is a nice, and big change from the current situation.

[Meshuga]

20. Thanks! Same here, I often agree with your posts

It is anecdotal in my case as well, but the Obama support is pretty strong in my circle. But I know Clinton won the Jewish vote in NY and that is not surprising since she is their senator. But I believe that this part of Obama's message would be a great selling point in the community.

Thanks again for the response!

[Adelante]

13. Well done, MrWiggles

A very important OP. Thank you for it.

[Demagitator]

16. Obama failed....

As a half Jew -- I have a unique perspective on this. I don't see race relations betweens blacks and Jews improving at all because of Obama, in fact they will get much worse.

Why? People from the beginning of time; have not voluntarily sought peace. Most times they have had to of been forced into it by wars; or by spiritual awakenings etc., not by politicians, no matter how noble Obama may sound. Even, the politicians in the 60s had to be forced -- to put on the books -- that racism was illegal.

They basically want diversions from reality.

People are no longer inner oriented; but find their identity in the group, so no matter what Obama says; that would not stop the fear that a Jew would feel if they walked into Obama's church, or the fear they would feel at a Nation of Islam rally...and a generation of people that are outer directed do not judge people by their inner thoughts -- or beliefs -- but rather by their appearance.

And, someone that looks like a Jew would never be welcome in Obama's church, no matter how many well written articles are put out that try and reduce the tensions, between the blacks and Jews.

[JerseygirlCT]

23. Obama belongs to the UCC - a very liberal Christian

denomination. I'm certain Jews would be welcomed at his church. Why do you think you would never be welcome? Because, perhaps, you have a preconceived notion of what a majority African American church is like?

A mainline Christian church has precious little in common with a Nation of Islam rally.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Uncommitted voter to the defense of Trinity UCC

Trinity UCC is an open and inclusive congregation. I'm more willing to defend their inclusive ways than Oabma's own. They welcome gay people and white people and whoever wants to come. I was raised in church. As an adult the only services I have attended have been at inclusive African American churchs. I've been invited to them, taken to them, and welcomed by them. Never has a white church extened such a hand of greeting. Never. I've seen some bigoted churchs of every stripe and ethicity and race, but the really inclusive and understanding and non judging churchs I have experienced are all black churchs, first and foremost. I have been grateful for those churchs, the ministers and the congregations.

Thus far I'm not standing for Obama, but I'll stand for Trinty UCC any day of the week. Because Trinty stands with me.

[Meshuga]

26. I disagree

I feel he would be the perfect person to rebuild relations between the two communities. Blacks and Jews have always had a close relationship until recent history. All we need is a willing leader who is respected in both communities to come in and lead the process.

If you would have fear walking into Obama's church I think you would have to speak for yourself because I don't share the fear. I am involved in a Conservative synagogue that has no fear of African Americans, quite the opposite, we are looking for an opportunity to go back to the old alliance. Obama would be a perfect vehicle to help us accomplish this goal.

But like I said in the OP, this is only my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

[grantcart]

58. k and r

[Cha]

56. Quit trying to smear Obama..it's

not working.

[rasputin1952]

71. And the students were not welcome at the Woolworth's

lunchcounter.

Things change when brave and dedicated people act.

[The Wizard]

108. I'm confused here

I don't know what a Jew looks like. Kindly provide a detailed description so I know how to react when encountering one. I've heard they're always after money, so I'll have to keep my hand on my wallet.

[Archie_Leach]

111. What a jew looks like?

Well SHE is one of the most beautiful persons - INSIDE AND OUT - that I've EVER met and I LOOOONNNNNGGGGG for her but I can't even try for her because BOTH OF US KNOW that we are constricted by the events of reality that exists.... so what she's "nonpracticing"?..... most painfully she already has her relationalship ties....and me I'm ANY male THAT LONGS FOR T-H-I-S BEAUTIFUL WOMAN..... OUT OF MY REACH..... BLAH..... jew.... gentile...... arab..... african descended...... asian descended..... I DON'T GIVE A DAMN FOR ANY "labels"..... I just know that I KNOW what THIS "jew looks like"..... FROM AFAR.....

[Meshuga]

116. I'm also confused

I'm with you. I don't look like an Arab Jew or an Ethiopian Jew or an Asian Jew or a Hispanic Marrano (Bnei Anussim) Jew and the list goes... What is a Jew supposed to look like? :-)

[OzarkDem]

18. Obama's links to religious extremists are troublesome

We've had enough of that stuff for the last 12 years in this country. Its time to put religion back in the church and leave it there.

[JerseygirlCT]

24. What religious extremists are you saying he has links to?

That would be news to me.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[casus belli]

25. So, you denounce Hillary's spot on the 700 club then? n/t

[goldcanyonaz]

75. Did Hillary, like Obama tell the 700 Club that abortion was a prayerful choice?

[JerseygirlCT]

102. So long as it's a choice, I'm good with it

Choice is always the operative word, IMO.

[Scurrilous]

21. Thanks!

:thumbsup:

[indimuse]

22. Obama's pastor:Wright's condemnations of America are echoed in his denunciations of Israel and Zioni

Many of Wright's condemnations of America are echoed in his denunciations of Israel and Zionism, which he has blamed for imposing "injustice and … racism" on the Palestinians. According to Wright, Zionism contains an element of "white racism." Likening Israel's treatment of Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of blacks during the apartheid era, Wright advocates divestment campaigns targeting companies that conduct business in, or with, Israel.

Given Wright's obvious low regard for the U.S. and Israel, it is by no means surprising that he reserves some of his deepest respect for the virulently anti-American, anti-Semitic Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. "When Minister Farrakhan speaks, Black America listens," says Wright. "Everybody may not agree with him, but they listen … His depth on analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye opening. He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest. Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African American religious experience. His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics. His love for Africa and African American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose."

Wright's paean to Farrakhan was parroted in the November/December issue of TUCC's bimonthly magazine, the Trumpet, which featured an interview with the NOI "icon" who, according to the publication, "truly epitomized greatness." "Because of the Minister's influence in the African American community," the Trumpet announced that it was honoring him with an "Empowerment Award" as a "fitting tribute for a storied life well lived."

This seems an odd distinction to confer upon someone whose anti-American, anti-white, anti-Semitic statements are numerous. For example, in 1996 Farrakhan told a Tehran newspaper that God would "bestow upon Muslims" the honor of "destroy America." In February 1998, he sent a cordial and supportive letter to Saddam Hussein, calling him a "visionary" who had earned the Iraqi people's "love," and whose demise would "mean a setback for the goal of unity ." In July 2002, he declared that America, "with blood dripping from hands," had no moral authority by which to overthrow Saddam. In February 2005, he condemned the United States for waging a war "against Islam," adding: "here's no way that I, as a Muslim, could countenance my children or grandchildren fighting a war against fellow believers in any part of the world."


Farrakhan also has a long, well-documented history of venom-laced references to the white "blue-eyed devils" and Jewish "bloodsuckers" who purportedly decimate America's black communities from coast to coast. Moreover, he has referred to white people as "the skunks of the planet."

On a 1984 trip to meet with the Libyan dictator (and America's arch enemy) Muammar Qadhafi, Farrakhan was accompanied by none other than Jeremiah A. Wright.

Farrakhan has long considered Qadhafi to be his trusted "friend," "brother," and "fellow struggler in the cause of liberation for our people." In 1996, the NOI leader formed a partnership with Qadhafi, who pledged $1 billion to help Farrakhan develop a Muslim political lobby in the U.S. Said Qadhafi: "We agreed with Louis Farrakhan and his delegation to mobilize in a legal and legitimate form the oppressed minorities—and at their forefront the blacks, Arab Muslims and Red Indians—for they play an important role in American political life and have a weight in U.S. elections." "Our confrontation with America," added Qadhafi, "was like a fight against a fortress from outside, and today we found a breach to enter into this fortress and confront it."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=c19d4d91-618e-40d3-a5d9-c07d7a87a5ba

[IsItJustMe]

32. Is Farrakhan running for president?

[Meshuga]

34. Or better yet

Is Jeremiah Wright running for president?

[IsItJustMe]

41. This whole discussion of Farrakhan just goes to show the power of the msm in controlling the debate

and peoples perceptions. It's sad.

So Tim Russart has a brain fart about much to do about nothing, and the next thing you know every body is talking about it trying to give it some type of meaning.

[Binka]

106. Indie Is Busy Building Bridges Of Bullshit

These bridges have all the cred of the levees of NOLA but she/he is building them anyway.

[Meshuga]

33. This guilty by association spiel doesn't work with me

Barack Obama denounced the type of hate speech at the debate last night and I believe his pastor was mentioned. As a Jewish voter, the security of Israel is important to me and bridging the relationship between Blacks and Jews is important to me. Trust me, if I believed that Barack Obama shared the same opinion as Jeremiah Wright I would not be voting for Obama.

This guilty by association BS is just another attempt at smearing senator Obama. It is fear mongering and I don't fall for it.

[indimuse]

36. words..

just words... denounce..or..reject?

[Meshuga]

40. It ended up being both

Nice way to handle the situation by Obama in my opinion.

[indimuse]

101. "When Minister Farrakhan speaks, Black America listens," says Wright.

If i myself personally attended a club or a church or any organization that even hinted at "racism" in any form I would no longer attend that Church or organization. Would you? How can you down play this as not important or dismiss it as trivial? Isnt it not "guilt" by association? If I hung out with a bunch of "drug dealers" once a week is that meaningless or does that show my character? If John McCain attended a church with an "outspoken" member of the KKK would that be acceptable?



()()()()SNIP()()()()

Farrakhan has long considered Qadhafi to be his trusted "friend," "brother," and "fellow struggler in the cause of liberation for our people." In 1996, the NOI leader

formed a partnership with Qadhafi, who pledged $1 billion to help Farrakhan develop a Muslim political lobby in the U.S. Said Qadhafi: "We agreed with Louis

Farrakhan and his delegation to mobilize in a legal and legitimate form the oppressed minorities—and at their forefront the blacks, Arab Muslims and Red Indians—for

they play an important role in American political life and have a weight in U.S. elections." "Our confrontation with America," added Qadhafi, "was like a

fight against a fortress from outside, and today we found a breach to enter into this fortress and confront it."

Obama, A Trojan Horse for Slavery Reparations Proponents? ( w/Citations)
Feb 27, 2008
Please consider my earlier posts. They may be long, but I provide excerpts and direct quotations. More importantly, instead of just making unfounded statements, I

provide citations and links to my sources.

With the stroke of a pen, Obama can repeal income tax for a selected portion of the population, in order to pay slavery reparations.

The House Judiciary Committee Chairman -- a reparations proponent -- has been openly biding his time over the past two years, for Obama to become President,

believing that Obama will make reparations the law.

Obama's closest advisors and political allies are ardent reparations proponents. A racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic organization that demands reparations

and openly hates America is throwing its support behind Obama. The word will be spread in churches and mosques.

This prospect ought to give pause to all Americans.
()()()(snip()()

Many of Wright's condemnations of America are echoed in his denunciations of Israel and Zionism, which he has blamed for imposing "injustice and … racism" on the

Palestinians. According to Wright, Zionism contains an element of "white racism." Likening Israel's treatment of Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of blacks

during the apartheid era, Wright advocates divestment campaigns targeting companies that conduct business in, or with, Israel.

Given Wright's obvious low regard for the U.S. and Israel, it is by no means surprising that he reserves some of his deepest respect for the virulently anti-American,

anti-Semitic Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. "When Minister Farrakhan speaks, Black America listens," says Wright. "Everybody may not agree with him, but

they listen … His depth on analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye opening. He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest.

Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African American religious experience. His integrity and honesty have

secured him a place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics. His love for Africa and African American people has made him an unforgettable force, a

catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose.



RW is waiting...

[Demagitator]

46. And just the other day....

I was listening to a left radio station; and Obama was singing praises to Wright as his great guru --(spiritual leader)-- in old speeches, he was giving publicly. I think; it was recordings Obama made at Wright's church. The Nation of Islam plays the recordings, over and over, again to their cult groupies.

[FrenchieCat]

112. You should really be ashamed.

And Obama is related to Cheney. Please provide us with the goods on that one, while you are at it! :sarcasm:

[sellitman]

28. This Jew agrees with almost everything you said but...

Your three Jew theory is blown out the water because you did such a good job with your OP.

:shrug:

[Meshuga]

37. I knew we would disagree on something eventually

You see? :-)

[hendo]

35. bump

And last I checked isn't renouncing slightly stronger than rejecting?

Either way, well played by Obama. Excellent OP by the way.

[Meshuga]

38. Thanks

With the intention of another bump. :-)

[wryter2000]

92. I had the same feeling

As a writer, I get rejections all the time. No editor has ever renounced my fiction, though. :)

It's all splitting hairs, though, as far as I'm concerned.

[TexasObserver]

39. Hillary is trying to drive a wedge between Jews & blacks, two of our coalition groups.

Shame on her, once again, for always playing for divisiveness.

She can't help herself.

Seven more days until COFFIN NAILING DAY.

[Meshuga]

44. If she ran a positive campaign

to prove her critics wrong about her being such a divisive figure, Hillary's campaign would be very much alive today, in my opinion. But unfortunately it didn't happen that way.

[Cha]

59. When you hire the very expensive mark penn

to run your campaign..you gotta know it's going in the gutterside of politics.

[TexasObserver]

84. I agree. I am truly shocked by where her campaign has gone the past 2 months.

They lost their way.

[NorthernSpy]

67. Hillary doesn't care if she leaves the Democratic Party in ruins...

She's exactly like her husband in that regard.

[JoFerret]

69. Nonsense

.

[fujiyama]

82. Well Bill did leave the party in ruins after he left office

Lost governorships, House representatives, and Senators...

And the Clinton campaign has made idiotic and divisive comments during this election cycle.

[Leopolds Ghost]

73. Coffin Nailing? "What if Hillary comes back on March 4, like Dracula?"

Tweety asked this about Giuliani when someone said Florida would be the
"final nail in the coffin" for Giuliani.

"What if it's like in one of those Dracula movies?"

"What if Giuliani's lying there, like this --" (Tweety closes his eyes)

"-- and then in Florida his eyes pop open?" (Tweety's eyes pop open)

It was actually kinda creepy.

[TexasObserver]

85. Van Helsing?!

[carlotta]

45. It's Reverend Wright that concerns me

I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt on Farrakahn, but what I can't reconcile is why Obama would belong to a church and have as a spiritual advisor someone who thinks Louis Farrakahn is a great man. I'd like to know more about Wright, his church and what drew Obama to it. I have to say, it's unsettling to me.

[KittyWampus]

49. you'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt on Farrahkahn? WTF does that mean?

and go ahead and research his church. It'll be instructive for you, if you are sincere. Which I doubt.

[Emit]

60. Speaking of researching his church

I suggested the same to a family member who was all bent out of shape and claiming that Obama's church was akin to a 'black supremicist' thing :eyes: -- (of couse, that was after I assured the family member that Obama was not Muslim, but that's a different story).

Here's the email I was forwarded after my family member's inquiry. Thought I'd post it for all who have those 'concerns'. Apparently, the church's website has had a lot of inquiries:

Thank you for your interest in Trinity United Church of Christ and for
your consideration of our member, Sen. Barack Obama, in the Democratic
primary election. Due to the high volume of emails and inquiries, we
are unable to respond to each one personally. We were overwhelmed with
“hits” after Senator Obama’s historic victory in the Iowa democratic
caucus.
Barack Obama has been a member of Trinity United Church of Christ for
nearly two decades. As a young community organizer, new to Chicago,
Barack met with Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., Trinity’s Senior Pastor,
seeking advice. He received good counsel about the complexities of life in
Chicago and the challenges faced by residents in poor communities like
South Chicago’s Altgeld Gardens.
The United Church of Christ (http://www.ucc.org), Trinity’s
denominational affiliation, is “a community of faith that seeks to respond to the
Gospel of Jesus Christ in word and deed.” It was founded in 1957
through the union of several different Christian traditions. Not only does
Trinity not exclude anyone from membership or attendance based on race
or ethnicity, but:
The majority of UCC members are white; the conference minister of the
Illinois Conference of the UCC (Rev. Jane Fisler Hoffman) and her
husband (both white) are members of Trinity (You can watch a video of Rev.
Hoffman speaking at Trinity about her positive experiences there.);
Trinity has been instrumental in working with and lending financial and
staff support to the development of new UCC churches in Gary, IN (with
the Indiana-Kentucky Conference of the UCC, Milwaukee, WI (with the
Wisconsin Conference of the UCC), and Benton Harbor, MI (with the Michigan
Conference of the UCC). There is no anti-American sentiment in the
theology or the practice of Trinity United Church of Christ. To be sure,
there is prophetic preaching against oppression, racism and other evils
that would deny the American ideal. Trinity is “Unashamedly Black and
Unapologetically Christian.”
Trinity was founded in 1961 and had 87 families when Dr. Wright
started his tenure in 1972. Currently, as Dr. Wright anticipates a 2008
retirement, there are more than 8,000 members, 70 ministries, and three
Sunday worship services. You and your family can watch these services
online at 7:30am, 11:00am and 6:00pm CST.
If you require additional information, please do not hesitate to
contact Senator Obama's office:
Devorah Adler at [e-mail] Joshua DuBois at
[e-mail]
Yours in Christ!

[AntiFascist]

51. Excellent points...

Leave it to right-wing, corporate shills like Russert to try and deepen the divisions within the Democratic base. Once we have a clear Democratic nominee, we need to unite behind them in order to fend off the hate machine.

[Swamp Rat]

52. k&r

The wedge between blacks and jews was not an accident.

[Mooney]

53. This Jew agrees with you n/t

[Cha]

55. Thank you, MrWiggles for your

poignant review. There was another post last night on this very important issue..

BeyondGeography (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-27-08 12:24 AM
Original message
"Lost in the Farrakhan flap were some powerful words of reconciliation from Obama
Edited on Wed Feb-27-08 12:24 AM by BeyondGeography
From tonight's debate:

==And the reason that I have such strong support is because they know that not only would I not tolerate anti-Semitism in any form, but also because of the fact that what I want to do is rebuild what I consider to be a historic relationship between the African-American community and the Jewish community.

You know, I would not be sitting here were it not for a whole host of Jewish Americans, who supported the civil rights movement and helped to ensure that justice was served in the South. And that coalition has frayed over time around a whole host of issues, and part of my task in this process is making sure that those lines of communication and understanding are reopened.==

http://communities.canada.com/shareit/blogs/theelephant...

I know I wasn't the only person listening who found the thought of a President with this kind of mindset to be thrilling."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4792083

[Meshuga]

79. Believe me,

I have posted that quote in several Jewish websites just in case this very important statement got lost in the smear. :-)

Thanks for reposting it here!

[Whisp]

61. recommended. Excellent post. - I have a question...

can you summarize what was the cause for the divide between the Jews and the Blacks? I am sorely lacking of knowledge on this subject.

Just a jump start for me to know how to further look into it, please.

[Meshuga]

76. I think it started with the decline of anti-semitism in America after WWII

I think it started with the decline of anti-semitism in America after WWII while Blacks were still suffering racism causing the two groups to drift. The African American community and Jews didn't really share the same struggle anymore and there was a perception that Jews were white and had their new privileges because of their skin color.

Louis Farrakhan's anti-semitic rhetoric (and his distortions about Jewish involvement in the plight of Blacks), the Crown Heights/Harlem riots, the Million Man March, media coverage creating sensationalism (adding to the tensions) were all huge contributers.

In the Jewish side of the coin you unfortunately find people like the people described by connecticut yankee (see post #65). The lack of trust and the misinformation being spread to audiences on both sides cause a lot of problems and it is refreshing to hear a leader (perhaps the next president) offering to usher a new beginning in the Black-Jewish alliance.

[krkaufman]

62. Personally, I thought Hillary's niggling over "reject" vs "denounce" ....

... likely reminded the viewers of her husband's similar obfuscation over the definition of "is." I doubt that she won over many viewers with that ploy.

Thanks for your insight.

[weezie1317]

63. What a great, thoughtful post! :D

[MagickMuffin]

64. As much as DUers despise Lieberman, perhaps Obama had him as his mentor because of this:

Joe was part of the Martin Luther King, Jr. march into Washington in August 1963. He's said that Dr. King's "I Have a Dream" speech was a moment "that really did transform my life."

Inspired by the Washington march, Lieberman went to Mississippi to work for civil rights. It was the first time he felt and witnessed the emotional impact of racial segregation.

I don't know how mentors work once the candidate is sworn into office. Whether the newly elected candidate gets to choose for themselves, or whether committees decide who will mentor them.

I've seen some pretty nasty things said about the Lieberman/Obama relationship in the Senate.

Do the DUers know if Obama chose Lieberman or are they just spewing hatred? :shrug:


Perhaps this was one of the tiny baby steps towards the healing between the two groups.


Thank you MrWiggles for posting this, and explaining your POV. :applause:

[JerseygirlCT]

103. How far he's come from his earlier days, huh?

Sad, really.

But you make a good point, I think.

[BurtWorm]

72. Hey, Mr.Wiggles!

Nice to find I agree with you outside the R/T forum, as well.

:toast:

[Meshuga]

77. Hey, BurtWorm!

It is nice to see you in these parts.

:toast:

[charlie]

80. Yer a good egg, MrWiggles

Dependably so. Always were :hi:

charlie from R/T

[Meshuga]

83. Thank you, charlie

It is nice to see you here as well!

[Joshua N]

78. I am black and know the great history between black and Jewish people. I hope it can be restored as

well. I know that many black people do not know of this relationship, but it is a history lesson we must revisit. I am glad to hear that it inspired you, it inspired me as well and, I thought, was a great thing to point out.

[Meshuga]

81. I would be very optimistic

with a leader like a president Obama bringing us all together.

:toast:

[Binka]

107. I'll Bump Your Thread Because This Irish Catholic Chick Loves Jewish Men

Good post! Most Jewish guys love me back BTW. I should have married my high school lover Seth Finkelstein. I didn't know what I was giving up when I left him. Catholic chicks can be brain damaged.

[Meshuga]

117. You guys are not brain damaged

My wife is a former Catholic chick (now a Jewish chick) and you guys rock. Like Elaine in Seinfeld you seem to have shiksappeal so you should not need to regret losing your love in high school. Now you get to pick. Finkelstein was holding you back. :-)

Thanks for the bump! And here is a another one.

[JerseygirlCT]

122. LOL. Though I now belong to the Episcopal church, this Irish (formerly R.) Catholic

chick did marry a Jewish man.

My MIL tells me they make the best husbands... I think she might be just a little biased, though, lol.

[wryter2000]

94. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Joshua N]

121. Thanks wryter! Happy to be here.

[Bluerthanblue]

88. MLKjr had some very good words about this if I remember

correctly-
Thank you for sharing your perspective with such grace and honesty.

I share the wish as well.

peace~

[IndianaGreen]

93. K&R

A great post, MrWiggles, and one that I which fully concur with.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

98. This Jew is in agreement with you.

[think4yourself]

99. Refreshing!

What an excellent post. These are hopeful times indeed. America is so hungry for healing.

[sabra]

100. Thanks for the post... Barak means "lightning" in hebrew

His presidency could bring back the electricity in the relationship of these two communities...

[amborin]

109. couldn't Obama find a different pastor?

i'm not religious, and it's been years since i've participated in any religious event...

but can't an individual switch to a different religious community or gathering or pastor, if the one they presently have is in some way problematical?

can't Obama find himself a different pastor?

if i were religious and were participating in a particular congregation whose pastor was aligned with the likes of Farrakhan, it would make me sufficiently uncomfortable as to leave that congregation and sever my relationship with that pastor

[route66left]

119. Obama should find another church but he doesn't for some reason

and I think that he doesn't shows he's just another political PANDERER!!!

Why would he ever want to take his wife and children to a church whose pastor looks up to a hate monger?

Is he afraid that he'd offend fellow blacks by leaving the church?

Where is his moral courage to do the right thing....<b>actions speak much louder than words</b>?

[Cheeseburger Walrus]

110. What a refreshing...

...and thought provoking thread. Thank you, Mr. Wiggles, for contributing an elevated level of informative discourse at a time when many are tearing their beards, gnashing teeth, and posting items which surely will be found regrettable to the author in the immediate future. The African-American, Jewish narrative is a rich dichotomy in desperate need of a shot in the arm for decades now. Now is the time for healing. Well done, sir.

[FrenchieCat]

113. I'll just be glad when we can stop practicing this Politics of Hate, and Division....

as it pains me greatly!

Thank you for the OP. It was insightful!

[route66left]

120. Obama could stop practicing the politics of Hate & Division by....

leaving a church that espouses Hate & Division!!!

[Name removed]

114. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swagman]

118. not being Jewish..not being an American..I liked Obama's reply but

I can tell you one thing. Whoever is the candidate, the world is praying for a Democratic president-whether it's Hillary or Obama.

[Eurobabe]

123. K & R.