Obama Supporters Only

[Vinca]

Last night we lost our satellite signal because of a bad snow storm so I didn't see the debate. In fact, the dish must be buried because we still don't have a signal. Can you wrap it up for me briefly? Was it same old, same old or did anything new actually happen? Do you think this will affect the primaries either way? Thanks.

[NDambi]

1. No real blows landed...it was standard fair to me..nothing really changed...

someone else will/can give you a blow by blow, or a link.

In essence, Meet me in Ohio, landed like a thud..nothing really new..

other than some small jousting..and prolonged responses to questions..

[ihelpu2see]

20. I did not like the post-pullout question from Russert to Clinton and Obama

He said What if al-Qeda re-emerges as a threat..... Re-emerges??? They were not the original reason for the Invasion, They were less than 10% of the "Bad Guys" shooting at our brave soldiers..... So his question was a farce. I wish that either Clinton or Obama hit him with that. Clinton got close and I think it was the only redeeming moment for her but it made her look afraid of the question. She said that Tim was always asking hypotheticals. It was after that that Obama should have said something about the al-Qada remark since they really were not the major source of the "insurgency". imo

[cali]

2. Arrgggh. I can't help but holy shit

I am so snowed in. There's been no where for the snow to go for weeks and now I'm literally snowed in. How is it there in NH? It's still snowing like mad.

[Vinca]

7. It's awful. I'm so sick of snow I can barely stand it. We're in

the banana belt and we've gotten a ton of snow this winter. Last night we lost power for awhile. I said to heck with it and went to bed about 8 p.m. I've been buying seeds for my garden over the past week trying to stave off depression.

[MadBadger]

8. Snow, Snow, Snow

Thats all it does here in Madison these days as well.

[babylonsister]

3. No knockout punches landed by either side.

It was fairly civil, and thankfully, hopefully, the last one.

Here's a good rundown of what happened:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/02/7359_obama_and_clint.html

[Vinca]

15. Thanks. Good link.

After 20 debates or whatever it is, there can't be much new to cover. I hope this is the last of it. Obama against McCain will be entertaining - looking forward to those.

[Lerkfish]

22. IMHO clinton needed to land blows but they mostly deflected or made her look bad

I think both candidates were wobbly on the russia question, but overall Obama looked more presidential, and I'm even saying that as objectively as I can.

[babylonsister]

23. She certainly didn't rule in this debate, and

that's what she needed to do. And I agree, Obama looked real presidential!

[stellanoir]

4. There are all sorts of videos of excerpts of it in the political video forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=385

I tried to stream it but MSNBC feed was really spotty and probably overwhelmed.

[Vinca]

11. Thanks - I'll check it out. I imagine if we ever locate the dish

under the piles of snow there will be a complete rerun somewhere.

[casus belli]

5. Hard to summarize, a few really good moments by both....

Tim Russert was a bonafide jerk as usual, he seemed to be a little harder on Hillary than Obama. Obama scored huge points with his clarification of his stance on Farrakhan and his comments regarding rebuilding a bridge between the African-American community and the Jewish community. You really should check it out...

Full speech here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Still front page at the moment

[Vinca]

10. Thanks for the link.

[casus belli]

12. Anytime. n/t

[MadBadger]

6. Here the run down

It started out with questioning Hillary's change of tone over the course of two days and the drudge photo which in turn turned towards health care.

They had a long 16 minute debate on health care in the beginning in which Obama held his own. It looked as if Hillary was Filibustering though as like last debate she continued to try to hijack the debate so she could make her points. Then Hillary complained that she was getting all the first questions, even quoting the SNL sketch and saying that we should ask Obama if he wants a pillow. The line fell flat and she got some boos.

Then they talked about NAFTA, which was a wash, though Obama was able to put out there that she had a history supporting it.

On Foreign Policy, he shined, talking about Iraq and how her vote got us in a ditch, and also showed his strength on Pakistan. Tim Russert tried to catch him on Public Finance, which was one of his weaker moments, as well as the farakkhan endorsement, which Obama finished well saying that he would reject and denounce his support, when pressed by Clinton that denouncing it wasnt enough.

Overall, Obama won the debate because he fought back all her attacks, but what he showed today was his knowledge on the issues, especially foreign policy, which is her perceived strength. The debate probably wont change anything, meaning his momentum will continue.

[Vinca]

9. Denouncing Farakkhan isn't enough? I wonder what she expects

him to do? Last time I checked freedom of speech was barely alive. It's just as well I didn't watch. Serenity now, serenity now.:rofl:

[indimuse]

30. He doesn't denounce Farrakhan..OR REV WRIGHT! Will be big problem if nom...

just his anti Semite statements...for now!



Many of Wright's condemnations of America are echoed in his denunciations of Israel and Zionism, which he has blamed for imposing "injustice and … racism" on the

Palestinians. According to Wright, Zionism contains an element of "white racism." Likening Israel's treatment of Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of blacks

during the apartheid era, Wright advocates divestment campaigns targeting companies that conduct business in, or with, Israel.

Given Wright's obvious low regard for the U.S. and Israel, it is by no means surprising that he reserves some of his deepest respect for the virulently anti-American,

anti-Semitic Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. "When Minister Farrakhan speaks, Black America listens," says Wright. "Everybody may not agree with him, but

they listen … His depth on analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye opening. He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest.

Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African American religious experience. His integrity and honesty have

secured him a place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics. His love for Africa and African American people has made him an unforgettable force, a

catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose."

Wright's paean to Farrakhan was parroted in the November/December issue of TUCC's bimonthly magazine, the Trumpet, which featured an interview with the NOI

"icon" who, according to the publication, "truly epitomized greatness." "Because of the Minister's influence in the African American community," the Trumpet

announced that it was honoring him with an "Empowerment Award" as a "fitting tribute for a storied life well lived."

This seems an odd distinction to confer upon someone whose anti-American, anti-white, anti-Semitic statements are numerous. For example, in 1996 Farrakhan told a

Tehran newspaper that God would "bestow upon Muslims" the honor of "destroy America." In February 1998, he sent a cordial and supportive letter to Saddam

Hussein, calling him a "visionary" who had earned the Iraqi people's "love," and whose demise would "mean a setback for the goal of unity ." In July

2002, he declared that America, "with blood dripping from hands," had no moral authority by which to overthrow Saddam. In February 2005, he condemned the

United States for waging a war "against Islam," adding: "here's no way that I, as a Muslim, could countenance my children or grandchildren fighting a war against

fellow believers in any part of the world."


Farrakhan also has a long, well-documented history of venom-laced references to the white "blue-eyed devils" and Jewish "bloodsuckers" who purportedly decimate

America's black communities from coast to coast. Moreover, he has referred to white people as "the skunks of the planet."

On a 1984 trip to meet with the Libyan dictator (and America's arch enemy) Muammar Qadhafi, Farrakhan was accompanied by none other than Jeremiah A. Wright.

Farrakhan has long considered Qadhafi to be his trusted "friend," "brother," and "fellow struggler in the cause of liberation for our people." In 1996, the NOI leader

formed a partnership with Qadhafi, who pledged $1 billion to help Farrakhan develop a Muslim political lobby in the U.S. Said Qadhafi: "We agreed with Louis

Farrakhan and his delegation to mobilize in a legal and legitimate form the oppressed minorities—and at their forefront the blacks, Arab Muslims and Red Indians—for

they play an important role in American political life and have a weight in U.S. elections." "Our confrontation with America," added Qadhafi, "was like a

fight against a fortress from outside, and today we found a breach to enter into this fortress and confront it."

[cloudythescribbler]

34. Yes, and Obama VERY successfully called her on "denouncing" v "rejecting" ...

But there were a couple of questions Obama never answered -- one about his pastor travelling with Farrakhan to Libya.

[Political Heretic]

13. Nope. Outside of DU, it was a non-event.

He "won" by not losing.

[Vinca]

17. That ad your showing was brilliant, don't you think?

I was wondering if the guy who made it ended up in some major ad agency as a result of it.

[Political Heretic]

19. You know it was originally a macintosh ad, right?

I'm sure you do - probably just mean his masterful video editing. Anyway, yeah I need to see if I can hyperlink that image to reference the video on youtube.

[Vinca]

26. Actually, I didn't. Brilliant editing then. nt

[Political Heretic]

28. Oh yeah! For the original apple, IN 1984 no less

Actually... if I remember right it might have come out in 1983 as a teaser for apple's release in 84. Naturally IBM was "the man" and The runner was apple...

That's also what makes the logo at the end of the video really funny....the play on the apple logo.

[Jersey Devil]

14. Many in the NY metro area didn't get the debate either

It is interesting that a good portion of the 8-10 million people in northern NJ and NYC do not get MSNBC unless they have Cablevision as a TV provider. For some unknown reason, MSNBC signed a contract with Cablevision making it the exclusive provider of MSNBC in the NY metro area. I have Verizon Fios and thus could not see the debate.

I tried getting it on the MSNBC.com stream but it was so choppy that it was unintelligible so I turned it off.

[Raine]

16. A draw pretty much

neither made a mistake but since it was Obama's to lose and he didn't, he still ends up ahead. :-)

[Vinca]

18. Great. I've got to check the 10 day forecast.

Next Tuesday is when I'd be nuts if snow kills the dish.

[jmg257]

21. Overall - I think Obama seemed more Presidential, Hillary more like... the #2.

They were both good, but he seemed more at ease. She is still trying to sell herself - "experience and fighter" nothing new.

I think she had a couple really silly/stupid moments (SNL "quip" & Tax return/suck up for donations), but otherwise was OK.

He did fine overall, came out on top in a few exchanges. No real bad moments.

[Marrah_G]

24. So you only want one-sided views? Not sure why you asked the question the way you did.

[Lerkfish]

25. there have been "clinton supporter only" threads at DU

did you complain about them as well?

just curious.

[Marrah_G]

27. Probably- Frankly I've bitched about so many threads (both sides) that I really don't know for sure.

The nastiness coming from a dozen or so people on both sides the last couple months is really hurting the community.

I asked why post it that way? why cut out a portion of opinions?

Why do those questions bother you? Do you not agree we need to bring our community together not push each other further away?

[Lerkfish]

38. if your intent was to heal the community

you could have simply contributed to the discussion.

[Marrah_G]

39. see post 36

[Lerkfish]

41. okay, then.

should have left it at that.

[Marrah_G]

43. I did leave it at that.

[Vinca]

29. Because I'm tired of the Hillary people spinning what isn't there

into a faux issue. You would try to convince me Hillary hit a home run and tell me I'm a cult member if I continue to support Barack. I'm sick of fighting. I'm through with name calling. I'm looking for next Tuesday to come so we can put this primary to bed.

[K Gardner]

31. That's exactly how I woke up this morning feeling ! I think the "fighting" served a

purpose for awhile, but I'm done.. it is useless and futile and a waste of time. Sitting here listening to H supporters try to spin and attack and spew is just about the most trivial waste of time and effort I can think of. This race is over, but for the shouting.

I too am looking forward to next Tuesday, when those who are going to can unite behind our candidate and we can start running against McCain and plotting a strategy for the GE. Bravo for saying it.

[Marrah_G]

37. You realize it goes both ways right?

You say you want us to unite... but this "Sitting here listening to H supporters try to spin and attack and spew is just about the most trivial waste of time and effort I can think of" just makes me want to tell you to #$%^&* off, frankly.

You don't seem to really want to unite. You want the Hill supporters to come over to your side and just forget about all the nastiness. Frankly, it's not that easy. Obama will get my vote... But I won't be campaigning for him, at least that is how I feel right now. This entire primary has turned me off and made me sick to my stomach.

So if you think we are all going to grab our pompoms and start cheering for him, I think you are a little deluded. Wounds take time to heal and MANY wounds have been created in this forum. Wounds created with crappy sentences like the one above. Your's was milder then most, but still, it was the same crap, just watered down a little.

Heed my words or not. I no longer give a shit. You reap what you sow.

[Marrah_G]

36. I can't wait for the primaries to be over.

An awful lot of people are staying on ignore permanently after the nastiness I have seen here. Some long time Duers surprised me with their horrible behavior. This place is alot nicer with them silenced.

Upon thinking about your response I can understand your position. I think it's hard for the non-zealot supporters on BOTH sides.

[Avalux]

32. Obama did exactly what he needed to do -

he remained calm and collected, answered the questions intelligently and did not allow Hillary to rile him even though she tried. He got a few laughs too which he often does. Hillary needed to deliver a knockout punch or Obama needed to trip up in order for her to be the winner. It didn't happen. Obama won.

[From The Left]

33. Barack Looked Presidential. Hillary Looked Angry

The strangest part of the debate was Hillary whining about the order of the questions.

Instead of bitching about being asked second, she kevetched about being asked first. She seemed to be looking for anything to play the victim card. No wonder the NBC on-line poll of more than 100,000 voters said Obama won 70% to her 30%.

[stillcool]

35. I don't think Hillary did anything...

to help her campaign, and I don't think Barack did anything to hurt his. I agree with the previous posters, in that it was much ado about nothing. The kitchen sink had nothing in it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. HILLARY KICKED HIS ASSSSS!!!!!!! WAHHHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!

He's done!!!!!! Drop out now Obama!!!!!!! Spare yourself!!!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

(Sorry. Had to do it. Can't stand segregation threads)

[Qanisqineq]

46. But they stay out of "Hillary Supporters Only" threads

They let us have our fun in peace without disparaging remarks about our candidate.

:sarcasm:

:rofl:

[L0oniX]

48. mmmmm ....Kool Aid ...good

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. Which One Of These Is You?

Just curious:

[grantcart]

42. I think that supporters of each of the candidates will watch it and come

back convinced that their candidate won. There wasn't any real gotcha moment and they both looked very strong and informed.

Objectively I think that total neutral folks might be turned of on Hillary because of her opening whack which came out as "a stop picking on me" plea and a couple of times she seemed to be trying to win by fillerbusting and a little too strident.

There are a couple of stories that may have legs one is that Hillary reversed herself and said that she would release the tax returns but wouldn't say when.

The other is she seemed for the first time to say that her IWR vote was a mistake.

[Uzybone]

44. More of the same

the momentum of the race wasnt changed. The debate was a tie...again.

[Coexist]

45. they said that you can watch the entire debate at msnbc.com

you should check it out.

[tokenlib]

47. Obama has learned a lot..as to tone and composure he did well

Considering that Hillary usually does "better" in debates--last night was Obama's best. He was cool, attentive, deflected nearly every shot, unflappable and prepared. He had that "presidential" composure. I can't wait to see McCain and Obama together.

Hillary looked more tense and the frustration was evident. Her best moment was when Obama laughed good-naturedly about her mocking and her smiling response looked genuine.

[Eurobabe]

49. Hillary threatened to do a Kevorkian on Obama

Something about a pillow?