100 Reasons To Support Hillary:

[Dinger]

http://www.davodd.com/2008/100-reasons-to-support-hillary-clinton


"Reason #1 to support Hillary:
In Arkansas she was instrumental in straightening out their school system - taking it from one of the worst systems to a role model used by other troubled schools on how to improve public education.

Reason #2 to support Hillary:
In 2006, she led the fight to kill the anti-gay Republican constitutional amendment that for the first time would have added laws to the Constitution that would INCREASE discrimination

Reason #3 to support Hillary:
After being pummeled by the public for trying to pass Universal Health care while she was First Lady, she dusted herself off and in 1997, led a federal effort that provided insurance support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.

Reason #4 to Support Hillary:
She was able to secure a raise in research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.
. . . ."

[Occam Bandage]

1. One reason not to:

[Tarc]

3. Oh for fuck's sake, shut up already. Biden, Kerry, Edwards voted for the war too

and they all seem to get free passes now. But Hillary does not, but only because the O-Bots have an agenda to drive.

[Occam Bandage]

4. I must have missed Sen. Clinton's apology.

[Tarc]

16. Clinon has said, and did agan last night in the debate, even

that she would not vote the same way again, knowing what we know now about Bush's deception.

If you're one of those partisan morons that is still having a temper tantrum because she has not done strung together "I", "am", and "sorry" together in a sentence, then you're pretty fucking pathetic and petty.

[Occam Bandage]

20. "She would not vote the same way again" is not contrition, it is not apology,

and it is not, above all, responsibility. It is a belated recognition of error without recognition of responsibility.

[Tarc]

32. I was right; you are petty

All the Senators I mentioned above have recanted their IWR vote, yet only one still gets slammed for it and only for purely partisan reasons. Demanding a literal "I'm sorry" is nothing more than semantic masturbation. You can go off in a corner and do that by yourself, as I'm not interested.

[Occam Bandage]

35. Sen. Clinton has not apologized for it. She has made excuses for it. Especially given her whining

about "Reject" vs "Denounce," I think the point is fair.

[Tarc]

45. Summation

[Occam Bandage]

53. Summation

[emilyg]

61. Go stew in your hate.

[mckeown1128]

21. But she is still making excuses for her vote...

you know she was "tricked" and that she didn't know the Iraq WAR resolution meant war. Yet.. many in this country did oppose the war from the start.

[Tarc]

26. Yes, Obama opposed it when he had notihng to lose and no position to speak from

She nailed him on that point last night pretty well.

And the IWR was a directive to the prsident to pursue the Iraq situation under the constraints of th UN Security Council resolutions. It isn't her fault that he blew them off.

[Occam Bandage]

33. Then why did she vote against the Levin amendment, which would have required

the President to go to the United Nations, and again before Congress, before he started his war?

[mckeown1128]

39. Don't bother using logic... I am amazed at how irrational

some get in defending her vote.

[mckeown1128]

36. WTF He had a senate campaign to lose...

Besides... how is it any better that Hillary supported the war(as you put it) because she had something(political) to lose.

[Tarc]

51. That's the nature of politics, and is what Kerry and Edwards did as well

[mckeown1128]

58. Do you realize you aren't able to defend her vote...

you just deflect... "Kerry and Edwards", "Obama wasn't in the senate", "nature of politics"... "the senators were the only ones in the country that didn't know the IWR meant war".... you make me sick... people are DYING and you give me that "nature of politics" BS... as though it makes everything ok.
:puke:

[Tarc]

59. Stop being such a flaming disingenuous little wimp, please

She, along with the others, voted based on the intel in front of them at the time. They have all recanted based on what we know now and that is all there is to it.

What Obama did or didn't do in 2002 in a state legislature has no bearing at all ad never should have been a apart of the conversation. Its like a junior varsity kid trying to compare his stats to the varsity players. Apples and oranges.

[mckeown1128]

60. Along with the others... umm... That is no excuse...

Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., didn't read the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq before she voted in 2002 to authorize the president to use military force against Saddam Hussein, according to new reports.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/05/report_clinton_.html

They didn't all recant. Hillary is still trying to make excuses.


By the way... I wasn't in the senate at the time(since I am in my 20's... and I am pretty sure I knew that the war was wrong. The point, here is that she can make excuses till she turns blue... but that doesn't change the fact that she voted for a war that has cost thousands of lives.

[whopis01]

63. No one ever had anything to lose from opposing the war.

The only way to lose was to support it.

[Riverman]

17. A Cheney Supporter?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. I'm not voting for them either.

Sorry, we're not going to shut up about Iraq.

Now matter how much you want to pretend it's not happening.

[mikelgb]

7. No passes here

No passes for Obama for voting to fund it either

[GoneOffShore]

8. And they're not running for the nomination now.

That's why she's not getting a pass.

:spank:

Sheesh!

[JVS]

40. Why do you think so many people DIDN'T vote for edwards despite his populist appeal?

they all paid a price

[Steve-O]

23. Ask George Bush to apologize, not every Senator that voted for it.

[Occam Bandage]

25. I expect *everyone* who was responsible for Iraq to apologize.

[BootinUp]

42. I guess the rest of us are lucky

that at least someone as smart as Obama was available, who know who you IWR one issue voters would have picked otherwise.

"The IWR vote should not be used as a litmus test." - Wes Clark 2003.

[Occam Bandage]

48. I'm not a one-issue voter. It is, however, an issue, and pretending it isn't

is part of the reason that Hillary managed to blow her lead.

[BootinUp]

49. I think she has failed to explain it

in a way that a significant number can understand. However most of those people know the issue already and aren't open to intelligent discussion of the political reality of that vote.

[Occam Bandage]

52. Any explanation would either be a lie or would be political suicide.

"I voted for it because I believed it would be a military and political success, and did not want to be tarnished as a pacifist (a charge that would be especially damaging to a female, mind you) and an obstructionist in the face of what a decade-long lobbying campaign had convinced us would be a quick disarmament of a dictator and establishment of a new democracy."

That does not inspire confidence.

[BootinUp]

62. Why did you put your bullshit in quotes?

:rofl:

[cseper]

43. I have a question to you?

What did Obama do to try to stop the war in 2002?
What did Obama do to try to stop the war in 2003?
What did Obama do to try to stop the war in 2004?
What did Obama do to try to stop the war in 2005? (He voted for more war funds)
What did Obama do to try to stop the war in 2006? (He voted for more war funds)
What did Obama do to try to stop the war in 2007? (He voted for more war funds)

Is it enough to say "I was against the war" and give a few speeches about it?

Why didn't Senator Obama use the filibuster?

He claims he wanted to stop the war, but not enough to stand up?

http://www.bartcop.com/

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. I notice the dude has the now-obligatory "Obama's supporters are a cult" meme in an earlier post.

No thank you, David. :thumbsup:

[fascisthunter]

5. One Reason Not to Support Her: DLC

the same DLC that has capitualted for and enabled the Bush Administration.

[Dinger]

9. Are Any Of Obama's Supporters DLC?

Does that matter to you, or does it only matter if it's Hillary?

[Occam Bandage]

10. Supporters? Who cares? She's a DLC co-chair. Her strategic genius gave us the brilliant

Democratic successes of 2000, 2002, and 2004.

Fortunately, after 2004, DLC tool Terry McAuliffe was kicked out of his DNC chair position, Dean's camp took over the DNC, and his strategies (the same strategies Obama is using) kicked the Republicans' asses.

[Dinger]

18. So You Blame The Selections of 2000, 2002, & 2004 On Hillary?

:rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

19. Nope. I blame them on the DLC's idiotic 50%+1 political strategy.

Relying on a narrow margin in one state is just begging for theft, and relying on conforming to RNC frames is putting yourself in a 50%+1 box.

[blm]

28. That was Clinton approved DNC strategy for elections from 1996-2005.

.

[Occam Bandage]

29. And look what it got us. I don't think it's coincidence that a change in strategy resulted

in bigger-than-expected wins nationwide.

[blm]

37. If Gore or Kerry had a DNC that secured election process and strengthened the infrastructures

of all the states that had been collapsed in the 90s, either one would have been able to get their votes counted and would have taken office in the landslide they earned.

[mtnsnake]

54. Obama is as DLC slanted as almost any of the candidates who ran this year

and more than some.

He just isn't a card carrying member for obvious reasons that he would turn off the liberal base if he made it official. The DLC prizes him highly, and there is a reason for that. It's all about getting as many votes from as many wings as you can without alienating any particular wing of the party. Obama has done very well in that regard.

[mtnsnake]

50. If the DLC is an issue for you, then you better re-think why you're supporting Obama

Obama has DLC written all over him. He just isn't a card carrying member.

Ford predicted the DLC will play a major role in the issues debate that unfolds in the 2008 Democratic presidential primary process. The group will not side with any one candidate, he said, even though the organization has close ties to a number of potential nominees, from Vilsack to Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) and Joe Biden (Del.) to Gov. Bill Richardson (N.M.). Even Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) has expressed interest in "finding ways he could work with the DLC," according to Ford. (Ford describes Obama as a "personal friend" and says they talk regularly.)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/01/fords_nex...


From a year ago:

DailyKos straw poll shows shows Kossacks prefer John Edwards 37% to Obama’s 27% with Wesley Clark a distant third at 14% (the Blogometer has checked these numbers at 6K, 13K ,and 16K votes and there has been no change in the %s). Netroots ambivalence towards Obama’s candidacy seems to stem from two related sources: 1) his perceived centrist/Liebermanesque/DLC rhetoric; 2) and his inability/refusal to lead take the lead on a major progressive issue (especially the war).

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/01...

The DLC doesn’t necessarily pre-select candidates, but they do keep an eye out for possibilities. Obama has been on their watch-list for some time. Now that they see his sex appeal, they may rally behind him. He could be Hillary without the polarizing effect, a real possibility to hold the office.

http://pieceofmind.wordpress.com/2007/01/18/obama-liebe... /

[fascisthunter]

56. DLC Tried to... so haven't you....

Th eperson I supported and still do to an extent, was and is Kucinich. But IF I had to pick between the two (Obama and Hillary) I would pick Obama any day.

Nice try though

[mtnsnake]

57. Kucinich, yes

Excellent choice. Here's how I feel about Dennis:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3795006

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3696132

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3241893

[maximusveritas]

11. Reasons #1 and 2 are simply false

What were the actual results of Hillary's efforts: just a slight increase in the rankings, but an equivalent drop in performance:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE3D7143FF932A35757C0A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

For example, in 1979 the cummulative test scores of Arkansas students who took one popular college-admittance test ranked 20th of 28 states. The state ranked 50th of 50 states and the District of Columbia in expenditure for each pupil in elementary and secondary schools. It ranked 51st in teacher salaries.

Today, the latest available statistics show that Arkansas has fallen to 25th of the 28 states that administer the same popular college test examination. It has inched up to 48th in per-pupil expenditures and 46th in teacher pay

And what exactly was this model on how to improve the school system:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11152007.html
The plan Mrs. Clinton came up with showcased teacher testing and funding the schools through a sales tax increase, an astoundingly regressive proposal since it imposed new costs on the poor in a very poor state while sparing any levies on big corporations. The plan went through. Arkansas' educational ranking remained abysmal, but Hillary won national attention as a "realistic Democrat" who could make "hard" choices, like taxing welfare mothers.

As far as the marriage amendment, what did Hillary do other than vote against it? I'm not aware of her doing anything and the amendment never had a chance of passing.

[rodeodance]

27. so, ? the ranking were improved were they not? 2nd: Stop whining -it was killed.

Reason #1 to support Hillary:
In Arkansas she was instrumental in straightening out their school system - taking it from one of the worst systems to a role model used by other troubled schools on how to improve public education.

Reason #2 to support Hillary:
In 2006, she led the fight to kill the anti-gay Republican constitutional amendment that for the first time would have added laws to the Constitution that would INCREASE discrimination

[RiverStone]

12. Any reasons are irrelevant - she will not win the nomination

The math is clear.

And no, I do not hate Hillary - I like her, but Obama will be the nominee.

Time to move on and focus on winning the GE.

[rodeodance]

13. "Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration."--I keep hearing the opposite.

Reason #25 to support Hillary:
Freedom of Speech: Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration.

[Occam Bandage]

14. She sponsored a bill to ban flag burning, and voted against an amendment to ban flag burning.

What's her actual position? Who the fuck knows.

[rodeodance]

22. you seem to have stated them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. She was for it before she was against it. nt

[Steve-O]

24. I love how the Obama people can't let us have one positive thread

They have to come crap all over it.

[mtnsnake]

30. Do you really think most of them are actually for Obama?

But you're right, they cry their tears all over anything pro-Clinton, just like the rest of the rightwing babies in the country.

[Dinger]

I'm Sort Of De-Sensitized To It By Now

I suspect many of them know most of us will vote Dem in November, so for some reason, they see it as harmless. Apparently, it gives them free reign, they think . . .

[hfojvt]

41. I know, isn't it awful

when people actually want to discuss things on a discussion board?

It should not be allowed.

[BootinUp]

47. They tease us instead (link)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4796188

[Eurobabe]

31. Only if she miraculously wins the nomination

and after layers of duct tape and noseclips will she get my vote. Sorry Dinger.

[mtnsnake]

34. Thank you for posting this, Dinger. It just goes to show how incredibly competent Hillary is

I don't care if anyone chooses Obama or if they think he's great, but nobody can ever convince me that Hillary isn't competent to be President of this country. She is one brilliant, well accomplished woman who could run this country as well as anyone ever has. She might not end up getting the chance, but her competency is something that no one can ever take away from her.

:thumbsup:

[scheming daemons]

44. "Competence" was Dukakis' main theme in 1988.... look where it got him...

The "vision thing" wins over the "competence thing" every time.

[Occam Bandage]

55. And Bush's in '92, and Dole's in '96.

[Dinger]

46. People Who Attack Her Now Aren't Thinking About The Impact Or The Future

And, you're welcome mtnsnake.:)

[Ohio Joe]

38. I'm currently supporting Obama

But if Hillary wins I'll proudly vote for her come Nov.

[From The Left]

64. TOP THREE REASONS NOT TO SUPPORT HER

1. She voted for the Iraq war
2. She voted for the USA Patriot Act
3. She voted to reauthorize the USA Patriot Act

[indepat]

65. Never have so many good works by an individual been so reviled by so many

[Dinger]

66. Some Here Think It's "In The Bag," And For Some Reason Think It's O.K. To Smear Her

I am trying hard not to be negative, which is not easy, especially now. I strongly support Hillary, but as pissed as I get, I just can't sink to the level of some. It wouldn't be satisfying or helpful to a Democratic White House in November. There should never be another repuke in there again, never.