So now we see the sexism card come back out to play.

[TheWraith]

People complaining in loud voices about how all the attacks on Clinton are sexist, and how all the commentators on TV are sexist, including the women, and how if you don't denounce and reject it you're a sexist too.

Kids, listen carefully, because I'm only going to say this once. It's uncontested that a few people here have made inappropriate statements or used less than proper word choices. But to try and sell that as a massive overarching taint of sexism shows that you are either very desperate or very easily offended by things you shouldn't be.

A little earlier today someone in here was trying to make a capital case out of the fact that one new poster had said that during the debate last night Clinton had "looked like a Raggedy Ann doll." Which I don't get what that's supposed mean, but boy, somebody was having a shit-fit over it, screaming bloody murder about the horrible horrible sexism and how everyone on DU who didn't support Clinton was guilty of it.

Funny, but I recall a lot less outrage when a Clinton supporter on here, in response to someone pointing out that Clinton's first political campaign was supporting Barry Goldwater, said that while she was doing that Obama was busy smoking crack. If anyone really believes that a three year old was a crack addict, frankly I can't help you. But no outrage was forthcoming except from me and a couple other DUers.

It seems that a lot of people conveniently only see or perceive slights against them and their clique. Being neither black nor a woman myself, and having been deeply immersed in DU over the course of this primary, I have to say that the racist comments have been far worse, and far more numerous, than the sexist comments.

My advice? Everyone should get a sense of perspective. If something's genuinely inappropriate, then alert the moderators. Otherwise, try not to read more into a statement than is actually there. If you deliberately go looking for bias, you'll find all you want to find, and make yourself look like a paranoid fool in the bargain.

[Catherine Vincent]

1. Sometimes alerting the moderators just isn't enough. nt

[SteppingRazor]

2. Definitely agree with the bolded statement, but I think Clinton supporters have a point.

In this day and age, sexism is far easier to get away with than racism -- at least overtly.

[JimGinPA]

6. "Definitely agree"..."but"

They're worse?



:wow:

[SteppingRazor]

7. I didn't say that.

I said it's easier to get away with sexism than racism, but I'm not going to play some blame game where I make value judgments on which haters are more hatey. In the end, partisan hacks are playing a zero-sum game -- everyone loses.

[JimGinPA]

16. Oh, I Agree About The Partisan Hacks...

I just don't agree about one being easier to get away with than the other. I've also seen it falsely accused on both sides. Not a slam on you in any case.

[SteppingRazor]

19. You don't think so?

I think it's definitely easier for Obama partisans to get away with calling Hillary a "bitch" than it would be for Hillary partisans to get away with calling Obama ... see? I can't even type it.

Point being, I think overt sexism is easier to get away with than overt racism. When you start talking about "code words" and that sort of thing, though, then I think it's not only easy to get away with, it's also easy to mistake perfectly innocent discussion for racism or sexism, depending on your point of view.

Basically, I think we essentially agree, when it comes to more-covert sexist and racist language. But in terms of completely overt, out-in-the-open dialogue, I think sexism is still alive and well, while racism is hugely frowned upon.

[bvar22]

23. You say "bitch"....

....like that's a bad thing.

(The above was observed on a very confidant woman's tee-shirt).

[NJSecularist]

3. Reccomended.

Best thread yet.

Some people just look to be offended. The sexism card has been thrown around way too much around here, undeservedly.

[saracat]

4. Obviously you have not been paying attention.It is waay more than a "few"

posters and has been escalating in viciousness.There was a time when I too, thought the Clinton supporters overreacted and I was flamed for saying so. I think there was some over reaction but lately the sexism has been nasty and rampant. Perhaps as you are not a woman , you don't see it but there have been post upon posts about menopause, emotionalism, pictures of Hillary as a witch. Comments on wrinkles or lack of them. I have not seen any racial threads. I do not deny that some may exist but folks are far more reticent to express those thoughts for fear of appearing racist.Sexism on the other hand appearers to be acceptable. A male poster referred to some postings as "pro-female bullshit" the other day.

[mohc]

8. I think that goes directly to what the OP is saying

The fact of the matter is that there is plenty of sexism, racism, and homophobia to go around on this board. It is a very sad commentary that this is the case on what is presumably a board full of liberals, but it is the case none the less. The degree to which we perceive these prejudices, however, is greatly influenced to our sensitivities to them. Women are going to be more cognizant of sexism, African Americans of racism, and LGBT of homophobia. I have seen unreasonable levels of all 3, but as a straight white male, I really could not tell you that anyone is worse than the other.

[rodeodance]

11. yes. its is accepted that most do not nor do even acknowlege it exits.

Kids, listen carefully, because I'm only going to say this once. It's uncontested that a few people here have made inappropriate statements or used less than proper word choices. But to try and sell that as a massive overarching taint of sexism shows that you are either very desperate or very easily offended by things you shouldn't be.

[Whisp]

5. I don't recall Ann Coulter ever being defended like this...

I posted this in another thread:
---

sexist, homophobia, rascism has always been here in some % or other.

undoubtedly there is far more now directed at Hillary (but to be honest a lot of it isn't really outright sexism but sme people will make new definitions for it) but how many times in the past has there been pile ons on Ann Coulter in a most cruel sexist way that was somewhat condoned by the community because it was 'funny' and against an 'enemy'.
I find that pattern here too often.

Same for the Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones threads that pop up here once in a while. They are often called many awful names from bimbo to just plain dumb, etc.- they are defined by Bill and his sexuality - as holes and not human beings.
and Monica. She is still reviled around here - and also defined as a 'hole' that made things uncomfortable for great old big dog without any self control. I don't think I've ever seen such a hateful mob after an individual in the media and everywhere. Why? why was she the one who had to go hide in shame and have the name Monica turned into a nasty adjective? Bill sure isn't hurting much now on that count, is he?

so I'm all for not saying sexists things, but for me that should include every woman, not just the ones we find 'acceptable' here.

but still, I can slip once in a while, and probably have. You must consider that sometimes its difficult to retrain what you have been told by society and the media, etc., at large for so many years. I have wiped a few words out of my vocabulary for this reason, but it's an ongoing process.

It's not all that long ago that I truly understood the toxicness of calling a woman a 'bitch' and there is no equal slight against a man with just one word that includes so much distain and historical hate and fear.

[rodeodance]

12. have you heard?---ann is not a Democratic Pres. candidate.

[Whisp]

14. that is not the point. either you treat all women with respect

or you are not allowed the use of accusatory sexism toward others.

plain and simple. either you are sexist, or not, or in between. but that goes to ALL WOMEN, not just the ones you like.

[rodeodance]

21. I treat her as the Repug hack she is.

[Whisp]

22. me too. :)

I know you get it, rodeodance.
I just needed an opportunity for my opining.

[mohc]

18. So attacking someone with sexist comments

is just fine and dandy as long as that someone is not a Democrat? My guess would be most of the people spouting sexist drivel about Clinton do not consider her a "Democrat" either. There is no rational defense of sexism, racism, or homophobia regardless of the target. There is too much sexism on this board, and there is also too much legitimate criticism attacked as being sexist. Same goes for homophobia and racism. The only thing we can do as individual posters is to condemn it when we see it, and do our bests to keep our own emotions in check and not slip prejudice into our own posts.

[rodeodance]

20. I did not say that. This is the GD-P primary forum.

[Breeze54]

9. Sexism has been rampant on DU.

I agree with the gist of your OP. The nasty attacks from both sides, against both sides, has been over the top at times but sexism lives on at DU, primary season or not. Perhaps because you are a male, you aren't sensitive to it or you haven't observed it but it exists on DU.

[Scurrilous]

10. K & R

:thumbsup:

[rodeodance]

13. i really do not see you as having a clue as to how rapid sexism is. and how it

affects the primary candidate

[DemGa]

15. Agreed, we should have perspective

Apparently perspective rolls downhill.

Barack Obama: “I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal,”

[rexy]

17. I do agree that there have been plenty of sexist remarks,

That, no one can deny. But I also feel like some Hillary supporters will sometimes say things about Obama, that if it had been the other way around, there would be mass cries of sexism. There was a post in particular, I know I read a few comments like what I just said, but I cannot for the life of me recall what exactly was said. But things like the term "whining" that some people get offended by when used to define Sen. Clinton's actions, are praised when used to define Sen. Obama's actions.

I think there is a bit of a double standard going on here from both sides.

[NorthernSpy]

24. the problem is that even gender-neutral adjectives have been deemed "sexist"...

Remember "unhinged"? It's unflattering at best, but I'll be damned if there's any "gendered content" there.

Funny, but I recall a lot less outrage when a Clinton supporter on here, in response to someone pointing out that Clinton's first political campaign was supporting Barry Goldwater, said that while she was doing that Obama was busy smoking crack. If anyone really believes that a three year old was a crack addict, frankly I can't help you. But no outrage was forthcoming except from me and a couple other DUers.

It seems that a lot of people conveniently only see or perceive slights against them and their clique. Being neither black nor a woman myself, and having been deeply immersed in DU over the course of this primary, I have to say that the racist comments have been far worse, and far more numerous, than the sexist comments.

Thank you for saying this! Some Hillary people -- including some of those who are wont to see misogynists under every bed and behind every lamp-post -- went pretty damn low in looking to use the racial angle against Obama. That's gonna leave a mark.