Is Hillary Clinton going for the nuclear option?

[backscatter712]

Daily Kos: Why the Nuclear Option Might Make Sense for Clinton

Like many Democrats, I've been puzzled of late by Hillary Clinton's seemingly erratic, occasionally desperate, often shrill intemperate approach in the campaign in the last month after starting out the campaign in 2007 on a relatively high road.

Much has been made of the reasons why the Clinton campaign imploded, but in looking forward, many are now asking the question about what she has to gain by helping the Republicans rehearse attack lines on Obama as the presumptive nominee.

Yes, it's possible this is a genuinely-formed strategy about the best way to become President in 2008. But increasingly I'm wondering if Clinton might be tempted by the devil's bargain -- to position herself for 2012 by weakening the Democratic nominee in 2008. More on the flip.

Historically, if your interest is in your own ambition to become President, this is not a bad strategy. Reagan attacked Ford with vigor in 1976, and just as it seemed he might be irretrievably behind, late in the primary season he named Gov. Schweicker of Pennsylvania as his running mate for what is recognized as a brilliant tactical stroke. Ford had to tilt right to deal with the internal party revolts, and as such lost a lot of momentum and talking points for the fall campaign, which he of course lost to Jimmy Carter in the fall.

Yeah, I'm wondering if Clinton's latest bout of nastiness is not to get her the nomination in 2008, that's almost completely out of reach for her, but to tear down Obama so he loses the general election this fall, thus positioning Clinton to be able to try again in 2012.

I'll say it again. I'm sick of this cynical, unethical, destructive, vicious campaigning. I will absolutely refuse to vote for Clinton if she puts her own ambitions ahead of what is necessary and good for our party and our country. She really needs to salvage what's left of her dignity and bow out.

[backscatter712]

1. Apologies for the term "shrill".

Not my choice of words, just a direct quote from the Kos diary.

[From The Left]

8. She is shrill

[backscatter712]

19. I don't want to get into a sexism flame war.

There's plenty of reasons why I'm an Obama fan and not a Clinton fan that I can get into without stirring the pot and using a term that at best is loaded, and at worst is pretty misogynistic.

[papau]

30. Kos is a Greek idiot (I can say while others can't due to my common ancestory w/ Kos) - the weaker O

is the Kos choice - the fact he is weak for the general has been ignored as Kos pretended those GOP crossover votes and GOP positive media were "earned" by Obama

Now our give a 5% tax cut to corporations and give then less regulations while the deficits from all the social programs need not be worried about because we do not see them passing nominee Obama is going to be having a much harder fight than Hillary would have. The Obama econ advisor's slip on CNBC's Kudlow show where he assures Larry that those programs for the left are just pretend will no doubt be followed by more slips by others as the Obama not ready for prime time show loses its GOP media cover.

So Kos wants to blame Hillary for this?

Did I mention that Kos (via the blogger "Crank" ) is a Greek idiot?

[BuyingThyme]

2. What nastiness?

[backscatter712]

7. Hmmm... The plagiarism thing,

the race-baiting in S. Carolina, the "Shame on you" for the flyers (which sounded like Capt. Renault saying "I'm shocked, SHOCKED to see negative flyers in an election campaign!" considering those flyers had been around for weeks.) There's the attempt to tie Obama to Louis Farrakhan, which she kept pushing in the debate last night long after she should have let it go. There's the snarkiness and sarcasm. I'm snarky myself, but her comments lately and her obviously pre-fabricated taglines like "Change you can Xerox" crossed the line from friendly rivalry humor to nasty. Really unbecoming for a Presidential candidate.

There's plenty more...

[BuyingThyme]

18. Oh, that's just flamebait. Locking...

:hi:

[Diane R]

3. I believe the Clintons undermined Gore's 2000 recount efforts, and sabatoged Kerry in 2004.

I think that, both times, their interests were in positioning Hillary for '08. I absolutely believe they are capable of undermining Obama in '08 to open the door for Hillary in '12.

[x-g.o.p.er]

16. No way...

I think Clinton's dalliances in office stuck to Gore, to some extent, but the Nader insurgency was what killed him. Without Nader running, Gore wins Florida going away and he's President.

In 2004, she was running for the Senate to give herself a national stage to be able to launch from in 2008. An incumbent is difficult to beat; it's only been done twice in 28 years (Carter and Bush 41), not counting Ford.

No, I think their strategy all along was win the Senate in 2000, win re-election in 2006 and then the 2008 presidency.

[sfam]

28. Lets be fair here - Gore deserves the bulk of the blame, along with...

Florida officials and the Supreme Court, of course.

[Jawja]

31. Yes, he should have won

his home State. Had he won Tennessee, Florida would have been a moot point.

[jgraz]

4. If she is doing that, she's got a lot of help here on DU

:argh:

[enid602]

20. cotested election

I think both Gore and Kerry are big boys, and should have contested those election results if they saw fit. The idea that they would depend on Hillary to take up the battle is laughable. But, this is politics, and I imagine that such things can happen. I was watching a program on PBS last night that basically credited Sargent Shriver with the War on Poverty and Great Society programs of the '60's. Yet, they said that the Kennedys kept Shriver off the ballot in the '64 election, as he was just a son-in-law, and not an heir apparent. How ironic that Teddy has continued this power-brokering into the '08 primaries.

[Yael]

5. A few of us have commented about that lately

I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility at all.

[DJ13]

6. "position herself for 2012 by weakening the Democratic nominee in 2008"

If she can, she will.

The Clintons were AWOL in the last two Presidential elections (I know Bill wasnt wanted in 2000, but Hillary could have tried) because they had no interest in a Democrat being President during Hillary's narrowing window of opportunity due to her age.

If they can undermine Obama, without being directly blamed should he lose, they will.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. Her stra-tee-gery is plain as day, which is why she will NEVER be President!

[KittyWampus]

22. Bill wasn't AWOL. His book was released just as Kerry's campaign got underway & Bill also supported

Bush on Iraq.

[Lerkfish]

9. This assumes WAY too much forethought and planning on the clinton campaign

so i don't believe it.

the campaign is cluster train wreck, I doubt very much they are looking past this election.

so, I think this is an unecessary hit piece, full of bizarre specualtion with nothing to support it.

yes, hillary fans, I'm arguing on your side for this one -- I think this is a bogus theory.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

10. I'm not saying I don't agree

But if there is a scorched earth instinct emerging, it is not shared by Clinton's outside backers. Every time the prospect of a 'damn the consequences' run all the way to the convention has been raised, someone like Schumer or Rangel have thrown water on it.

It's what Huckabee doesn't seem to get: even if people are not happy with who's winning, they aren't willing to see the party go under to prove a point.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. Crackpot paranoia... self-reinforcing Manichean delusion... must be right!

[easy_b94]

12. WOW................

they are willing to take the party to hell if they don't get their way

[SoFlaJet]

13. I've been saying this for weeks now

that they are playing ALREADY for 2012-which will never happen if she continues this obvious political posturing-we see through them too easily now-it frustrates the Clintons that we are no longer an ill-informed party-they RELY on an uneducated electorate as their base

[russian33]

14. oh good fucking lord! seriously?

this site is getting crazier by the day!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

15. It's shameful that Hillary is so desperate for power, she will destroy the Dem party in the process

[Submariner]

21. If Hillary loses TX and OH next week the party elders

will probably go to her and tell her she has lost and to GTF out of the race before she drags the whole process into the sewer opening the door for McCrazy.

[democrattotheend]

23. I am not prepared to accuse her of any of this

But it has crossed my mind. I would love to hear John Kerry's thoughts on the matter.

[weezie1317]

24. Interesting, but it won't work the same way. Ford had to go right to beat Regan, but Obama

doesn't need to go left to beat Clinton. He'll actually pull in more independent and cross-over votes (especially in Texas) if he remains where he is.

[x-g.o.p.er]

25. This is a stupid scenario

Since Harry Truman, here are the incumbents that won an election then lost re-election:

Jimmy Carter

George HW Bush

Defeating an incumbent is extremely difficult to do, and many argue that the only reason both Carter and Bush 41 lost was because of rebellions in their own party--Ted Kennedy in 1980, and Pat Buchanon in the prmary and Ross Perot (who took more votes away from Bush than he did Clinton) in 1992.

If that's her strategy now, which I doubt, it's just as misguided and incompetent as the primary campaign she has run up to this point.

She may be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them.

[Whisp]

26. but it's not working, he looks stronger, and she looks like a fool.

and as for the dirt the Clinton campaign has brought up against Obama - he has handled that very well and is prepared for the onslaught from the Repugs, I am sure.

What I'm not sure of, is that Hillary might be helping out McCain just out of spite.

No, it isn't a sexist statement (good grief now we have to apologize for every maybe possible word that Could be thought of in a wierd assed way as sexist) I truly believe her character makeup has 'spiteful' on the recipe.

[backscatter712]

27. There's lots of spiteful men out there.

Just look at the GOP...

[Whisp]

29. I know that, but this place is getting fucking stupid lately

with the word police.

[backscatter712]

32. Ain't that the truth...

I'm surprised I didn't get pilloried for quoting a Daily Kos diary that happened to have the word "shrill" in it.

[greguganus]

33. I'm more afraid of her going postal. n/t