So when will Ted Kennedy change his vote to Clinton?

[jasmine621]

Or does the bullshit about voting the will of the people only apply to the Hillary campaign?

[babylonsister]

1. Don't hold your breath. I expect before it's over he will be voting

the will of the people and stay just where he is. ;)

[tekisui]

2. I think we've been through all this.

[slick8790]

3. Whenever he wants to.

As far as I'm concerned, he should, even if he continues to campaign with Obama. Not worried about it.

As soon as Maria Cantwell changes her vote to Obama, also. We can play this game too. Net gain to Obama.

[MadBadger]

4. If you want to go down that road, I think Obama will end up being up a lot more.

[monmouth]

5. Hmmm, I hadn't gotten the memo about hell freezing over, but you may be right...lol. n/t

[LaurenG]

6. I think I missed something. Is Ted Kennedy now the representaive of all the people?

:shrug:

[MoonRiver]

7. Only the Hillary campaign.

Dem hypocrites get a free ride. :mad:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. You can endorse Obama because he's cool, or because your district voted for him

You cannot endorse Hillary for any reason.

Them's the rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. !!

:thumbsup: Hypocrisy from bu$hco and his followers and now from Obama and his supporters. Love it!


FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! :silly:

[susankh4]

55. Hahahaaaaa.....

Thanks. I need that laugh.

Not that it is really finny. It's just.... that the whole thing is so skewed now.

I want to scream!

[skipos]

9. When did the Washington senators switch to Obama?

I didn't hear that everyone was supposed to switch to the person who won their state.

[scheming daemons]

10. Obama's people never said for SDs to vote as their state/district, but as the NATION voted.

...

[jasmine621]

19. So, if Hillary is leading in the popular vote, then....? nt

[karynnj]

23. Don't know about Kennedy,

but Kerry did say - either way - when he spoke of not overturning the pledged delegate count. (I think that is better than popular vote because various states use various methods. Caucuses always get fewer people.)

[democrattotheend]

40. Then she should get it, but it's impossible to compute a popular vote

Because some caucus states do not report vote totals. But I suppose they could divide the margins by the total number of participants to figure it out.

[polmaven]

37. So you are saying that ALL

Super Delegates should vote for the same candidate.....What is the point?

[Bicoastal]

11. Pssst--none of these people have voted YET.

All this talk about "changing your vote" is meaningless until August.

It's just an endorsement when you come right down to it--and politicians are free to endorse whomever they want to endorse. Some people in GA voted Hillary, and some in MA voted Obama--are you going to tell me they don't count?

[greguganus]

13. No way Teddy will vote for Clinton after his serenade in Laredo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sdl86KNkt_M

The Next American Idol!!

[samdogmom]

14. About the same time Tammy Baldwin changes hers to Obama.

Obama won 2-1 in her congressional district.

[Occam Bandage]

15. Oh, don't worry. He'll be voting the will of the people. As will most SDs.

[stahbrett]

16. Each superdelegate can decide whether to go with or against their constiuents' vote

I haven't seen anyone crunch the numbers, but I suspect it would only help Obama if every superdelegate did the same as John Lewis. He's won 27 of 36 elections so far, and I am assuming he's won more voting districts.

[Forkboy]

17. Ask him, not us.

[shayes51]

18. Good question.

[jackson_dem]

20. Rep. Cleaver was on CNN last night and made a great point: only black SD's are being pressured

Black sd's are being pressured to vote with their district (and we know the Obama campaign is playing the race card and threatening them in order to get them to switch to St. Obama). He noted the same is not happening to white Sd's like Kerry and Kennedy whose state voted overwhelmingly for Clinton because they had already seen how bankrupt the Axlerod script, which they fell for in 2006, is in reality.

[polmaven]

36. Ah, sooooo

If the African American Super Delegates are being pressured to vote with thier districts, then do you suppose Governor Patrick of Massatwoshits will be voting for Hillary?

[jackson_dem]

39. Obama's national co-chair (the guy who implied Hill was racist after NH) has the answer to that

They would threaten Patrick that he shouldn't get in the way of the first black president and that if he did there "might" be a primary challenge to him...

[polmaven]

43. OK, so.....

African American Super Delegates should vote with their districts UNLESS those districts voted for Hillary, ''cause that would block the first African American President, and they would just have to challenge the elected official who stood with his constituents.....Have I got that right?

It is SOOO confusing! :shrug:

[karynnj]

21. He can't change his vote - he hasn't voted yet. He gave his endorsement

which he is free to give. I personally don't think superdelegates should vote at all. But, there is nothing in the way they were set up that says elected officials should simply add another vote for the winner of their state. Wouldn't that just give more power to the non-elected officials?

I haven't heard Kennedy on this, but I assume he agrees with Kerry that they shouldn't overturn the will of the people. That would mean not voting against the winner of the pledged delegates nationwide.

[ProSense]

22. Maybe when Hillary surpasses Obama in the nationwide popular vote and the superdelegates actually

cast their votes. Until then, Obama has Kennedy's endorsement.

[YOY]

44. Hush...we all know it has everything to do with genitals and nothing to do with votes

It's a mass conspiracy based on nothing more than genitals and her staunchest supporters here know it!

[Araxen]

24. At the last possible moment when an Obama win is in the bag

It's the truth.

[Dinger]

25. To The Greatest Page With Ya!

I saw this thread earlier, and then couldn't find it. Glad somebody kicked it!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[goldcanyonaz]

26. When she grows a penis.

[ProSense]

29. Classy! Maybe it's when she learns to run a winning campaign. n/t

[goldcanyonaz]

30. Nope, when she grows a penis is my final answer. Thanks for playing though.

[Forkboy]

60. Now I know why lions eat their young.

[Dinger]

27. That's A Good Goddamned Point!

Had to kick this again, had to.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Shall we have a re-vote in Massachusetts?

I wonder what the will of the people is now.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. Ted and Kerry both have to go to Hillary

[DefenseLawyer]

32. It's over.

Take a deep breath. Stop looking for people to lash out at and just find some inner peace. It's just politics. Somebody has to win and somebody has to lose. Ted Kennedy isn't responsible for Mrs. Clinton's failed bid.

[desi]

34. The bid failed before the jury has begun deliberations?

We in Ohio have not contributed our "testimony" yet and neither has Texas, PA or several other states and the defense rests? Oh my!!

[DefenseLawyer]

41. Well Yogi, it ain't over til it's over.

I'll give you that. You'll always have that. How about this: IF Hillary Clinton's well-oiled, smooth running White House bid should somehow, some way, by some improbable unforeseen catastrophe, prove to be unsuccessful, it will not be Ted Kennedy's fault. Feel better?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

33. If SDs are truly representing the voters of their state, then they should vote proportionally

Surely MA has enough SDs to allow Kerry, Kennedy, and Deval Patrick to vote for Obama, thus representing the 40% of voters who preferred him.

[SOS]

35. And when will the Democratic Senators

in the 23 states won by Obama declare their votes for Obama?

When will Senator Mikulski (D-MD) change her vote to Obama?

[Dawgs]

38. Why do you think it's bullshit for the SD's to vote as the people voted?

[mculator]

42. k&r

[The Anti-Bush]

45. How about when the remaining SD's for clinton who are in areas Obama won

change their votes.

[sueh]

46. Nevah!!!

:silly:

[rodeodance]

48. ***I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton***

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4526958#4526958
4526958, I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Posted by bigtree on Sun Feb-10-08 05:39 PM

if the SuperDelegates were apportioned as he said he wants them . . .


Obama said superdelegates should follow the wishes of the voters.

"My strong belief is that if we end up with the most states and the most pledged delegates from the most voters in the country, that it would be problematic for the political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voter," he said.

When it was noted that Sen. Ted Kennedy is one of his superdelegate supporters, even though voters handed Massachusetts to Clinton on Super Tuesday, Obama said, "Well, I mean, we can make arguments back and forth on this."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/09/2008-02-09_hillary_clinton_and_barack_obama_battle_.html

[ElsewheresDaughter]

49. hahaha that was priceless!

[rodeodance]

52. it has to be one the most revealing comments by BO yet!!

[anamandujano]

56. All rules must be followed except the new ones we make to favor BO.

I hadn't seen this before. What a f'ing hypocrite.

[rodeodance]

58. gawds-so many new rules !!!!!!!!!!

[DemGa]

47. Kennedy who ran against a sitting Dem President and now want to hoist

Barack Obama upon us? Hmmm, I'll give it some thought.

[Forkboy]

61. Weren't there Dems that run in every election, regardless of whether the sitting president is a Dem?

[DemGa]

63. Beyond token opposition, not sure

Kennedy challenged into June. I have to wonder if Kennedy gave us Reagan by weakening Carter.

Carter was still able to maintain a substantial lead even after Kennedy swept the last batch of primaries in June. Despite this, Kennedy refused to drop out, and the 1980 Democratic National Convention was one of the nastiest on record. On the penultimate day, Kennedy conceded the nomination and called for a more liberal party platform in what many saw as the best speech of his career. On the platform on the final day, Kennedy for the most part ignored Carter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election%2C_1980

[Forkboy]

64. Token or not, they ran and could have hurt the Dem president.

Be it Carter or Clinton. And I have the feeling your negative thoughts about Kennedy wouldn't exist had he endorsed someone else. :shrug:

[DemGa]

66. Not true

He ran a long bitter campaign against a sitting Dem President -- that's speaks for itself. That he supports Obama does not surprise me.

[Forkboy]

67. "That he supports Obama does not surprise me."

This tells me my last line of my post was correct. You can't see past your hate of Obama.

[DemGa]

68. No, I just don't like what Kennedy did to Carter

Though I do see parallels in Barack's usage of the right-wing smear campaigns (perceptions thusly derived) against Hillary.

Dems attacking Dems.

This is why I say I am not surprised.

[Forkboy]

69. And conveinently you don't seem to see that same shit coming for the candidate YOU support.

[DemGa]

72. Wow, you've just went the zero substance argument

How shall I refute amorphous supposition? I won't bother.

[thesubstanceofdreams]

50. The fact of the matter is

There are A LOT MORE SDs from states Obama won who are supporting Clinton, than viceversa.
I have no problem at all with Ted Kennedy voting for Clinton if there is a general agreement that SDs will respect the will of their states' voters.

[rodeodance]

51. DON'T KNOW---but sure loved BO's FLIP FLOP response:

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject ***I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton***
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4801911#4810858
4810858, ***I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton***
Posted by rodeodance on Thu Feb-28-08 02:08 PM

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4526958#4526958
4526958, I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Posted by bigtree on Sun Feb-10-08 05:39 PM

if the SuperDelegates were apportioned as he said he wants them . . .


Obama said superdelegates should follow the wishes of the voters.

"My strong belief is that if we end up with the most states and the most pledged delegates from the most voters in the country, that it would be problematic for the political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voter," he said.

When it was noted that Sen. Ted Kennedy is one of his superdelegate supporters, even though voters handed Massachusetts to Clinton on Super Tuesday, Obama said, "Well, I mean, we can make arguments back and forth on this."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/09/2008-02-09_hillary_clinton_and_barack_obama_battle_.html

[JimGinPA]

53. If I Were You I'd Be Worrying About All HER Super Delegates Switching

:rofl:

[Debi]

54. Maybe when Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray support Obama?

Or when Leonard Boswell supports Obama, or Dick Gephardt or Walter Mondale or Barbara Mikulski...

You realize that, at this point, if super delegates did support the candidate that won their state/district it would be a net loss for the Clinton campaign?

Or did you, like the Clinton campaign, fail to plan ahead when you started this thread?

[democrattotheend]

73. Clinton would lose 30 Superdelegates

Just did a count. If everyone voted with their state, Obama would lose 40 Superdelegates to Clinton, and Clinton would lose 70 to Obama.

[Debi]

74. Well, then, it MUST be done!

:thumbsup:

[susankh4]

57. I have a question or two

If SDs must vote according to their constituants... why do we need them? I can't see a purpose.

And.... if we do away with them..... is it OK if "the people" nominate oh, say, David Duke? Or Ron Paul? Should the Dem party be forced to oblige "the popular vote" no matter what?

Just asking. Cuz I really don't get it.

[RiverStone]

59. All SD's should reflect the will of their electorate...

Yes!!! Ted should change and so should my 2 Senators from WA (Hillary supporters); Murray and Cantwell's offfices both told me it was a valid question and that they would be responding to it soon (nothing yet). WA was for Obama 68% to 32%.

[powergirl]

62. He should vote his delegate in accordance with the will of the people

I suspect that he will vote his delegate for Sen. Clinton. I am an Obama supporter and I believe he should vote with the will of the people in his district.

[elixir]

65. Unfortunately, Ted wants to keep his image afloat and Obama seems to be his horse. I certainly

don't appreciate his choice but it is his to make.

[hedgehog]

70. Since the pledged delegates aren't awarded on a winner take all basis,

why should the super delegates be awarded that way? I'm guessing some Massachusetts super delegates will go with Hillary and some with Obama.

[democrattotheend]

71. Fine...30 more SD's for Obama, if it were done that way

I did a quick count in Excel, and if all of the Superdelegates voted with their states, Obama would lose 40 Superdelegates to Clinton, and Clinton would lose 70 to Obama, based on primary results so far. Please note that this analysis does not take into account instances where one candidate won the state but another candidate won a congressional district. It just assumes everyone follows the statewide results.

Personally, I don't think that's how it should be done. Superdelegates were designed to be independent of their states, which is why they are not pledged. But I do think it would be a disaster for the party if Obama went into the convention with more pledged delegates and the Superdelegates as a whole voted to give Clinton the nomination (or vice versa). But I think all of this talk about superdelegates is premature...Obama is catching up to Clinton anyway, and I don't think the supers would be stupid enough to give it to Clinton if Obama leads in delegates and the popular vote (to the extent that it can be computed).