The GOP likes to play the phony patriotism game, but shouldn't we vote for someone born in the USA?

[wndycty]

Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were born in the USA! ON EDIT: I don't think for one second this should be an issue, but we all know that if either Hillary or Obama were born under the same circumstances the GOP might try to make it an issue.

February 28, 2008
McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out
By CARL HULSE

WASHINGTON — The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.

Mr. McCain’s likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a “natural-born citizen” can hold the nation’s highest office.

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

“There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent,” said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. “It is not a slam-dunk situation.”

Mr. McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a Navy officer, were stationed. His campaign advisers say they are comfortable that Mr. McCain meets the requirement and note that the question was researched for his first presidential bid in 1999 and reviewed again this time around.
-snip-

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=2&ei=5090&en=45d24e7c7a991183&ex=1361941200&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1204207586-IN5L54RN0fERaoDu2SkGNQ

[MNDemNY]

1. Ok, shouldn't we vote for a person who has 2 AMERICAN parents?

Sounds pretty stupid.Dontchya think?

[BeyondGeography]

6. You'll be voting for him instead of Obama, right?

[MNDemNY]

12. did you read my post? I was only pointing out how stupid that is.

Get a grip.

[BeyondGeography]

13. You'll be voting for him instead of Obama, right?

[MNDemNY]

14. You are an ass. As I have stated sooo many times

on this fuckin' board. I will work and vote for the eventual DEMOCRATIC nominee, as I have for the past many, many years. Have some more Flavor-aid and take a nap.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Uh, I don't see you as an asset to the campaign

Thanks for the vote, though.

[MNDemNY]

22. I don't see you as an asset to the earth.

Your vile support of BHO is an asset? You make me sick, as well as the other obamanation zealots here.

[BeyondGeography]

24. On second thought, can you stuff envelopes at home?

[Binka]

29. Vile Support Of A Dem Candidate? That Makes This Poster Sick?

I'm with you baby this cat needs to stay home and stuff envelopes. Somebody has some anger issues and they go waaaayyyyy beyond Obama.

[flor de jasmim]

2. One would have thought this had been settled LAST time he ran for Prez

This is a non-issue.

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. it actually is a very interesting question

what if he was born to two non-citizens who managed to sneak over the fence at a U.S. Embassy in another country and give birth to him on the front lawn of the embassy? Would he be a U.S. citizen then? Would he be born on U.S. soil? Could he run then?

[griffi94]

7. the question you pose has nothing to do with the mccain situation

i thought we were talking specifically about mccain. mccains parents were both citizens. his father was a naval officer, he was born on a naval base. his parents weren't non citizens, and nobody snuck over any fence.

[ctaylors6]

9. One is not US citizen b/c born on military or embassy grounds. Children born to US citizens abroad

are citizens because their parents are citizens. If, for example, a german citizen (no US connection) is born on US military base hospital in Germany, that gives the german citizen no US citizen rights.

The question for McCain is not whether he's US citizen. That's 100% clear. It's whether he's "natural-born citizen" for purposes of Presidential qualifications. That's never been decided by US court, but sounds like the law would be on his side.

[Bad Thoughts]

4. Damn immigrants!

I can't even believe this is an issue. It points to the absurdity of arguments that immigrants can't integrate.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Next thing you know we'll find out his real middle name is Enrique

:scared:

[MoJoWorkin]

10. No, according to that Cunningham talk show guy, it is Juan Pablo McCain

:evilgrin: :sarcasm:

[marshall]

8. Sarah Duggin needs to do her homework

There is a precedent--Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona when it was a territory of the US. In the same sense John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone when it was a territory of the US.

[ctaylors6]

11. Interestingly, if Obama had been born a few years earlier he'd have almost same situation...

Hawaii was US territory until became state in 1959. Obama was born in 1961.

[demokatgurrl]

15. This is a pointless topic-

we can discuss this till we're blue in the face. Born in the U.S. is a requirement to be President. If someone meets that requirement, they can run. If not, unless the CONSTITUTION is amended, they cannot. It's not a matter of whom we "should" vote for- it's a matter of who we CAN vote for.

[Occam Bandage]

17. This is a terrible argument. Please don't make it again.

[wndycty]

18. Not making an argument, just pointing out the hypocrisy of this whole patriotism game. . .

. . .the GOP tries to play.

[Occam Bandage]

19. You're not going to get very far claiming that the

children of uniformed military personnel posted abroad are by virtue of birth less "patriotic" or suited to the Presidency.

[wndycty]

25. Do you realize I'm not trying to make ANY ARGUMENT?

I'm just trying to point out that the GOP likes to manufacture controversy and this is the type of controversy that would manufacture if it were a Democratic candidate who was born on foreign soil. I'm not trying to make any argument.

[griffi94]

21. apples and oranges

the repubs are trying to make the argument that obama doesn't love america because he doesn't wear a flag pin in his lapel, and because there is a picture of him not holding his hand over his heart during the pledge at some ceremony. add to that michelle obamas recent unfortunate statements and they have a small flame to fan. mccain being born in the canal zone on an american naval base to parents who were citizens is not nearly the same. i believe the rw is pushing that obama has anti american sympathies. mccains father was an admiral and mccain himself an honored war hero. while i think the rw charges are bullshit, there's nothing hypocritical about them.

[KittyWampus]

20. Do NOT Bite on this. McCain was born on a military base (American soil). This is toxic for Democrats

do NOT use this.

It'll come back and bite us on the ass.

I believe it was put in the NYTimes by McCain himself in the attempt to see if Dems would be stupid enough to try it.

[griffi94]

23. it's funny you say that

i was thinking the same thing. after last weeks media blunder when the nyt broke the story about mccain and that woman lobbyist, the rw rallied to mccain. if the democrats try to push this they'll lose supporters by the thousands. i don't expect military families to find this amusing.

[foxer]

27. Isn't torture legal at Gitmo, because it's not US soil?

[RandomKoolzip]

26. Ooooh....I dunno....

If we go down this road, I don't see it damaging McCain. It seems petty can could backfire among Independents who've been wooed to Obama's side.

[leftynyc]

28. Back away from this issue

You're speaking of someone who has at least 4 generations of men who have fought for this country. You don't like McCain's politics, fine, I don't either. But this is a moronic strategy and will likely garner independent voter support.