I'm an Obama supporter, but I have an issue...

[CoffeeCat]

Contrary to the ill-informed stereotypes, Obama supporters are not cultist lemmings. As
a 43-year old, stay-at-home mom--who voted for Obama in large part because of his
expertise on and commitment to the Constitution.

My feeling has been for a long time--that health care, education, tax policies, and other
Dem social issues--are important, but they are on the back burner for me--because we no
longer have a working democracy that follows our Constitution.

In my opinion, we must fix the foundation first. I'm interested in these ancillary issues, but
what good is painting, picking out furniture and re-wiring the lighting when your entire
foundation is crumbling all around you?

With that said, I took a very good look at all of the Democratic candidates. I was stuck
between Edwards and Obama, but in the end I was very impressed with Obama's background
with regard to the Constitution. He's a Constitutional Scholar, who taught Constitutional Law
(and other law classes) for nearly a decade. Obama gets it. Kucinich carries a copy of the
Constitution in his pocket. Obama carries around an encyclopedic knowledge of it's intricacies
and its history--in his head.

In Obama's "Blueprint For America", he discusses his policies and ideas, which are grounded in
restoring the Constitution. He adamantly insists on restoring Habeas, ending illegal wiretaps
and closing Guantanamo. Obama's ideas seem to emanate from The Constitution--which appears to be
at the core of his decision making.

After teetering between Obama and Edwards, this was my tipping point and why I ended up in the Obama
camp.

I'm not saying that I'm changing my mind. However, I am concerned about Obama mentioning in the debate
that he regretted voting for the Terry Schiavo bill. Obama said in the debate that "he knew better because
of his knowledge of the Constitution."

That really bothers me. He knew better, but he did it anyway. We know that most neocons (on the Dem side
and on the Republican side) ignore the Constitution. Some of them may have disdain for it. I expect
that those people will behave recklessly, but I guess I'm just a little miffed that Obama, someone
who knows---in every cell of his body--that the Schiavo nonsense was unConstitutional and only a dog-and-pony
show orchestrated by the nutter, religious wackos on the far right.

Again, I support Obama and many of his important ideas. We must close Guantanamo, end the wiretaps and restore
Habeas. However, I feel let down--that he went along with this, given his expertise on our Constitution.

Obama admitted that this was a mistake, and obviously he regrets this. I'm wondering if I can really count
on him to adhere to the Constitution and govern by it? Or will he get to Washington, respond to pressure and
not let the Constitution be his guiding light? Maybe he will.

I'm just asking questions. My support for Obama hinges on this issue, and I need to know that our candidate
will be someone who ends the pillaging of our government and our democracy. If it doesn't get done this time,
our country is lost.
decisions and ideas emanating from that

[GodlessBiker]

1. That's nice.

[writes3000]

2. For me, the fact that he stated his mistake in such a sure, public way....

Gives me confidence that he is going to hold himself accountable in the future.

I was disappointed when I heard that also but I was impressed that he fully called himself out on it - he didn't need to be prodded into admitting it.

He won't make that mistake again.

[CoffeeCat]

4. I agree...

...that he gets major kudos for admitting it outright.

He said it was his biggest regret and he offered up the mistake
without anyone bringing up Schiavo.

[writes3000]

8. It tells me that his head is in the right place...

I'm sure there are other votes he's regretted but this one is paramount in his mind because it messed with the Constitution - and that's why it's his biggest one. Because he holds the Constitution in such high, high regard.

[ClassWarrior]

3. Have you ever been a newbie somewhere, and been tempted to go along to get along?

It's not pretty, but it can be a learning experience. Looks like it was for Sen. Obama.

NGU.

[CoffeeCat]

12. I also considered that...

...that he was relatively new to the Senate when this happened, and the pressure
to go along must have been tremendous.

The fact that he mentioned this, must mean that it *was* a major learning experience
for him, and one that he regretted.

I get that. Sometimes when we go against our principles it really sticks with us
and leaves us with deep regret. Next time, it only makes it that much easier for
us to stick to our principles and refuse to kow tow to pressure again.

Maybe that was a defining moment for Obama?

[TheDoorbellRang]

18. That's how I saw it, too

That's the same reason I never held Clinton's IWR vote against her. Not many were standing up to be counted back then. It takes a lot of moral courage to stand alone, especially if the "elders" surrounding you are all in agreement against you.

[ClassWarrior]

26. Good point, tho she was hardly a newbie when she entered the Senate...

...much less a year later when the rest of the world was telling her DON'T DO IT. 35 years of experience and all that, y'know.

NGU.

[leftynyc]

31. Especially for a senator

who represents the state that got attacked.

[Connie_Corleone]

5. It's up to us to make sure he keeps to his word.

We the people have to hold him accountable for his actions when he's President.

[GoldieAZ49]

14. We have seen how well holding the POTUS accountable has worked. n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

19. As we all know, Obama is just like Bush. /sarcasm

:eyes:

[ClassWarrior]

28. So we should just give up and let them get away with whatever they want??

:crazy:

NGU.

[AndyA]

6. I question Obama's commitment to the Constitution.

He has stated that he is against impeachment proceedings for Bush and Cheney because they haven't committed "any grave breaches of authority."

So...starting a war against a sovereign nation that has not harmed us isn't a grave breach of authority?

Lying to Congress and the American people to start a war isn't a grave breach of authority?

Outing a covert CIA agent during a time of war isn't a grave breach of authority?

Creating a super secret energy policy in conjunction with the oil company CEOs that has led to the highest gas prices ever, and highest oil company profits ever isn't a grave breach of authority?

Since Obama is supposed to protect the Constitution, it would seem to me that he's failing miserably in his duties to do so.

And no, I'm not a Hillary supporter.

[TwilightGardener]

7. Nobody's perfect. He admitted the mistake. He regrets it. Good enough for me.

edit to add: Edwards has second-guessed SEVERAL very important positions and votes from his time in the Senate, so it happens.

[Bread and Circus]

9. We all make mistakes and have moments where we go against our best judgement

People are neither ALL GOOD or ALL BAD and so you have to judge people on their pattern of behavior.

[Cha]

17. Well said.."the pattern of

their behavior".

[leftofcool]

10. I am not bothered

by the fact he voted for this bill then was big enough to admit that he made a mistake. I am more worried that it should have come before Congress at all and that he even participated. If one is ever going to be not present for a vote, this was the one. All presidents have caved in to pressure and no doubt Obama will as well, as will Clinton. I wouldn't let my support hinge on this issue.

Left of Cool

[SteppingRazor]

11. I think being a junior senator recently arrived in the Senate and being the president...

are two different things. In the former, you have to reach consensus and go along to get along. In the latter, you can tell people to eff off.

[Marie26]

13. Just cause he taught

election law & con law at one point, doesn't mean he'll end the executive branch power given by the Bush Ad. Look to see if Obama has repudiated the "unitary exective theory" for that answer. Hint: he hasn't.

[CoffeeCat]

15. I do know that he repudiates the "unitary executive"...

...mentality.

He says that he doesn't agree with that and will not govern his Presidency that way.

Why do you think he hasn't?

[Marie26]

16. Link?

Why do you know that? He may repudiate it ... mentally. But has he ever addressed the issue out loud? I haven't seen it; though I've looked for it.

There was another thread on this a few days ago - "Any citations or quotes regarding Obama rescinding unitary executive authority?" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4793919. Though the OP recieved many insults & flames from Obama supporters, no one was able to find a quote.

[CoffeeCat]

20. My link is my conversation with Barack Obama...

That's why I'm asking for your source which states that he is "for" Unitary Executive, as you said.

During the Iowa campaign, I had the opportunity to speak with Obama. He called me because I was
an undecided voter.

We talked for about 20 minutes and I expressed everything I have here--about the preservation of
our Constitution being tantamount in my mind. I brought up Habeas and illegal wiretaps. He
brought up Bush's "Unitary Executive mentality" and he said he strongly disagreed with how Bush
was governing and that he would absolutely not govern that way.

That's when he launched into his background and expertise in Constitutional Law. He said, "How
Bush is governing, is not how it is supposed to be done." He also talked about how the lack
of transparency in the Bush administration was wrong and not in line with a democracy.

I got the feeling that the "Unitary Executive" issue was a major deal for him, and one with which he
adamantly disagreed. He mentioned it. Not me. Also, it is mentioned in his "Blueprint for America"
and he disparages this way of governing in his plan.

That's why I asked for your source, which leads you to believe that he agrees with "Unitary Executive"
because that goes against everything he told me personally.

[Marie26]

21. OK

So you say Obama personally called you & told you this. You can understand why I must be skeptical. If Obama really, really, cared about this issue, you'd think that there would be at least one quote about it, one time that he has addressed the issue in debates, rallies, interviews, etc. So far - nada. And you haven't provided one either. And yes, Clinton has gone on the record about ending the unitary exective power grab. Why hasn't Obama? Of course he's not going to openly SUPPORT it, "yes, I support giving Bush dictatorial powers" that's a quick end to the Dem primary. But he has never publically renounced this theory - as I stated. And as you've apparantly confirmed, unless there's some public quote that I'm unaware of. And that bothers me, because it means that 1.) Obama is keeping quiet in order to "reach out to"/pander to Republicans, or worse 2.) He doesn't intend to stop it. If he cares about this issue, he should tell voters & make a public stand.

Edit: I looked up Obama's "Blueprint for Change" - there's no mention there of the unitary executive.

Edit to the Edit: In fact there's no section at all on civil liberties! Ack. He has one section on "Restoring America's Standing" - but his 10 point plan talks about nuclear weapons, getting out of Iraq, etc. It doesn't talk about civil liberty abuses, illegal wiretaps, executive power, none of that. There's a quote from an Iowa speech where Obama promised to restore habeas corpus & close Gitmo - but those positions aren't included anywhere in the Plan that follows. Apparantly it's not a priority.

[debbierlus]

22. He has no voice on the Bush abuses, he has not called for accountability

Neither of our candidates walk the walk, my friend.

Kucinich may carry it in his pocket, but he INTRODUCED Articles of Impeachment.

You don't need a walking encyclopedia, you need a man of principle. Obama lost me during the Alito fight when he spoke out against progressives for fighting the Alito nomination. After a week of begging (and after he went on national tv and bashed us), he covered his political ass and voted for the filibuster of Alito. He showed no leadership, he tried to play the mythical middle, and I realized then and there what a fraud he was....He is not a leader...he is not the fighter we need. He is a self interested politician.

Hillary isn't much better.

We threw out the candidates who actually talked about representing the people.

[Bluerthanblue]

23. All I can offer is my own opinion- which is that there is

much to be said for his honesty. Some criticize the example he chose- I think it was a very good choice. Obviously the vote bothered him. It bothered him enough to say "I regret this, for THIS reason"- which was the Constitution.

He also states that this vote occurred soon after he came to the US Senate- :

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Obama, any statements or vote you'd like to take back?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, you know, when I first arrived at the Senate -- in the Senate that first year, we had a situation surrounding Terri Schiavo. And I remember how we adjourned with a unanimous agreement that eventually allowed Congress to interject itself into that decision-making process of the families.

It wasn't something I was comfortable with, but it was not something that I stood on the floor and stopped. And I think that was a mistake, and I think the American people understood that that was a mistake. And as a constitutional law professor, I knew better. And so that's an example, I think, of where inaction --

MR. RUSSERT: This is the young woman with the feeding tube and the family disagreed as to whether it should be removed or not.

SEN. OBAMA: That's exactly it. And I think that's an example of inaction, and sometimes, you know, that can be as costly as action.

He clearly regrets not having stood up for what he realized was right. That doesn't change the past, but his admitting it, and acknowledging it say to me, that he learned something important.

peace~

[mrreowwr_kittty]

24. You say your support hinges on this. What do you mean by that?

Support in terms of active campaigning, or actually voting for him in the GE? I hope you are just talking about the former because John McCain is surely not a better option where the Constitution is concerned.

As for the Schiavo vote, I didn't know until the debate that he'd voted for it. That was a shock to me. I appreciate the fact that he expressed regret for it. I harbor no illusions about Obama being a god-figure. He has screwed up before and probably will again. Overall, though, I trust him. He will pick good advisors and will do his best to do the right thing for the country. I like the fact that when he's asked questions he obviously thinks about what he's going to say. I am so tired of the "politician pivot" all-purpose responses that have become so common. Clinton is an expert at it and it's one of the many things that turn me off to her. The few moments when she's let her guard down and spoken her mind (which unfortunately get spun into sexist bullcrap by the media) are the ones where I've liked her best. Sorry for going off topic like that...

[CoffeeCat]

30. When I said that my...

...support hinges on this, I mean that in terms of psychologically being able to
believe in a candidate who will actually turn this neocon ship of hell around, and
give us our democracy back.

Either I am able to support a candidate in that way, or I'm not.

I agree with you, McCain is out. He's one of the borg. Hillary is not the answer either.

I do think Obama is a very decent person; a man of integrity. I agree with you, that he will
pick good advisors.

For so long, we've been traumatized by Bush. I am hoping that Obama is the one who can set
things straight. He's got the character and as I've thought all along--he respects the Constitution
more than he will bend to the will of these thugs who are destroying our country.

I will support him in the GE, no doubt. HOwever, I'm a bit dismayed by this Schiavo thing. Others
have pointed out that he was new in the Senate and now he openly references that vote as something
that he wishes he could undo. That's promising.

Like, you I was shocked by his Schiavo vote. I didn't remember that he voted for it. That's why
I kinda wanted to process it a bit, put my 2 cents out there and get a dialog going.

Thanks for your 2 cents. :)

[maximusveritas]

32. I think you're misunderstanding what happened

Obama didn't vote for anything.
What happened was that the Senate was on break, but the Republicans decided to hold a Special session to pass legislation on it. 3 Republican Senators showed up to vote for it. No one else showed up. Not Feingold, not Kennedy, not Boxer, not Obama, and not Clinton. What Obama said he regrets is that he didn't show up to voice his opposition. It wouldn't have stopped it, but he regrets not acting.

[CJCRANE]

25. Wasn't there a Republican majority

at the time of the Teri Schiavo case?

I don't think the Dems inaction on this was a bad idea politically because the whole Teri Schiavo fuss backfired on the Repubs.

[FrenchieCat]

27. If he brought it up on his own....it must have bothered him enough

for him to do so.

He could have given a more "Political" correct answer in where the vote that he would have regretted was not something of note.

The frank honesty that he exhibited in this case, when it wasn't truly required, should outweight any other quality you found distatesful in that vote.

[Straight Shooter]

29. What disturbs me the most is how Congress rode roughshod over the courts.

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.), traveling in the Middle East, said in a statement: "Congressional leaders have no business substituting their judgment for that of multiple state courts that have extensively considered the issues in this intensely personal family matter. The actions of the majority in attempting to pass constitutionally dubious legislation are highly irregular and an improper use of legislative authority."

...

Moran (D-VA) later cited the encounter in a floor speech. "I don't know who's right and who's wrong" in the battle over Schiavo, he said. "But that's the point: Neither do my colleagues." Moran said: "Ten courts, and 19 judges all have reached the same conclusion," ruling in favor of Michael Schiavo's request on his wife's behalf.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51402-2005Mar20_2.html